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All those are pretty good options (except joining Engineering School), but don't ignore the value of scouting the other Peaks. We have DM word that every peak has their own plots ala Karak Nag's ritual, and finding out more about that might be the most valuable thing we could do.

Certainly if we do go back to six month intervals, I'd vote for at least one or two of our actions to be scouting.
 
Personally speaking, I'd like to go back to the College, finish learning all of our non-battle magic spells, and then a Battle Magic Spell or two on top of that. Practice our Intrigue, try and get Advanced Greatswording, study The Book, and publish a paper on our MAP. At that point, depending on whats happening I could support further supporting Belegar and the retaking of 8 Peaks, or going off to do Snek Juice Research, or Adventuring in that order.
 
It really isn't. If he is "weakened", he can recover in short order. In generic game terms, he got mana drained, but he didn't lose maximum capacity. He can sleep it off. If he got "wounded" he actually lost something that at least takes a long time to heal.
:Citation Needed:

That's your interpretation of it, no more and no less. It certainly sounds like, to me, that this is way more than "mana drain". Ranald sounds like he got an hilariously large upgrade, and even for Mork, that very likely wasn't trivial, or he wouldn't be retreating from K8P in rage and frustration.
 
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Another topic, for those who are more knowledgeable about the setting:

What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
 
Another topic, for those who are more knowledgeable about the setting:

What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Well, we know enough about the importance of Karak Zilfin.

While the majority of the Karak's most important locations are located in Karag Lhune or Karag Zilfin
Belegar had made a fair few promises on behalf of the legendary riches of Karak Eight Peaks, but the main treasure vaults of the Karak were almost exactly opposite the Expedition, under Karag Zilfin, and the lesser ones were within Kvinn-Wyr and beneath the Citadel.

As for the supply line...

Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
Already got it, that's Karag Nar.
Karag Nar would join up the Expedition's holdings and secure domination over Death Pass, or at least the portion of it required to link up to the tunnels back to Barak Varr.
 
:Citation Needed:

That's your interpretation of it, no more and no less. It certainly sounds like, to me, that this is way more than "mana drain". Ranald sounds like he got an hilariously large upgrade, and even for Mork, that very likely wasn't trivial, or he wouldn't be retreating from K8P in rage and frustration.
That's missing what I'm saying. Frankly, I don't think there's anywhere near enough data to argue to what degree Ranald was strengthed, and how badly Mork was hurt, so I personally don't see the point getting to deep into it. What I am saying is there there's a perfectly good distinction between using "weakened" vs "wounded" in a report.
 
What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
The peak needed to secure Death Pass and Death's Crossing, and the one Belegar will probably try to take next, is Karagril, to the north of Karag Lhune. Currently has Greenskins (with Orcs, so not Crooked Moon) on the surface, and it seems the Skaven have been killing each other below.

Once secured, we'll have an artillery overwatch of Death Pass, and secure the Underway connection to Karak Drazh/Black Crag.

Karagril also seems to have the biggest or most valuable mines, and has a route to Karag Ziflin, the other one of the two major Peaks besides Karag Lhune.
 
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Another topic, for those who are more knowledgeable about the setting:

What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
The one to secure Death Pass, Karak Drazh, had been the third largest dwarf hold before the grobbi turned it into Black Crag. Unless I missed something, it's under the rule of Gorfang Rotgut, a nasty orc who shaved, tattooed, and crucified the prince of Karak Azul on his father's throne.
 
The one to secure Death Pass, Karak Drazh, had been the third largest dwarf hold before the grobbi turned it into Black Crag. Unless I missed something, it's under the rule of Gorfang Rotgut, a nasty orc who shaved, tattooed, and crucified the prince of Karak Azul on his father's throne.
Worth remembering, that whole mess happens 25 years in the future from our current position in the timeline, so there's a very good chance for our actions to butterfly that away.
 
The peak needed to secure Death Pass and Death's Crossing, and the one Belegar will probably try to take next, is Karagril, to the north of Karag Lhune. Currently has Greenskins (with Orcs, so not Crooked Moon) on the surface, and it seems the Skaven have been killing each other below.

Once secured, we'll have an artillery overwatch of Death Pass, and secure the Underway connection to Karak Drazh/Black Crag.

Karagril also seems to have the biggest or most valuable mines, and has a route to Karag Ziflin, the other one of the two major Peaks besides Karag Lhune.
Not exactly. Karagril was the backup plan if we couldn't find the path to Und-Uzgar.

We need to find the path to Und-Uzgar so we can better project force along Death Pass - the greenskins of Karak Drazh have yet to make themselves known, but we can't count on that remaining the case. Failing that, it would become necessary to take Karagril and place siege weapons above Death's Crossing."

And we did.

"That's something," King Belegar says, "but I'd like to know whether they're more bloody Broken Toof. Skaroki?"

[Scouting the Underway: 80+10=90.]
[How bad is it: 68.]

"Found it," he reports. "It comes up further back than we expected, outside the East Gates. Three weeks to excavate, half that if we throw every Dwarf with a pick at it."
 
Not exactly. Karagril was the backup plan if we couldn't find the path to Und-Uzgar.

And we did.
Karagril's still probably the next best target to secure anyway. The combination of covering Death's Crossing, the rich mines, the route to Karag Ziflin, and the Underway route to and from Karak Drazh mean it's a valuable prize and something we don't want to stay in enemy hands.
 
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I'm bored of this argument. I am now unilaterally demanding a new topic:

It looks like we're going to aim for taking the Citadel, but then the Expedition will end after that. That means the dwarves are going to dig in, pay their human pals what they're owed, and wait for reinforcements before trying to push in further. So what will our move be? We can scout the Eight Peaks, we can write a memoir, we can run back to the College to report, we can return to the Empire with the knight orders, we can carry messages to the various Karaks, we can stay to advise Belegar, we can move on to our next adventure, whatever that may be... tons of options.

But it sounds like there will be some time before anything else momentous happens in Eight Peaks, for us to get something done. Maybe a six-month turn or two? I'm kind of inclined to stick around for a bit, or run messages, although I do want to return to Stirland eventually.
Even if we plan on sticking around K8P long(er) term, we should still nip back to Stirland to let our friends know we survived and do whatever metaphysical maintenance on our Palace-Shrine necessary to keep its bonus active.
 
Even if we plan on sticking around K8P long(er) term, we should still nip back to Stirland to let our friends know we survived and do whatever metaphysical maintenance on our Palace-Shrine necessary to keep its bonus active.

Bonus is now moot/over-ridden by Ranald's coin per QM

That being said, Ranald would still appreciate his shrine being maintained.
 
Another topic, for those who are more knowledgeable about the setting:

What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
So looking at the following map


Grand Avenue and Major Underway Branches of Karak Eight Peaks:

Does not show smaller underground paths or natural or unnatural tunnels dug by Night Goblins or Skaven.

Karag Ril seems like an immensely important peak to hold. At the very least the underway beneath it. Holding that prevents any large scale forces from breaching K8P like we did. Holding that mountain means we will hold all underway routes into the peaks. While this won't stop any smaller movements from any smaller tunnels holding all the known major routes into will help prevent any large reinforcements from attacking our flanks. Holding Karag Ril and the underway beneath it means that skaven reinforcements will most likely come from the city of pillars and major greenskin reinforcements may not be able to even get in beside the west gate. Karag Ril also allows us to more easily launch an assault into Karag Zilfin or the city of pillars. Both massively important places to both the skaven and likely the greenskins.

Holding Karag Ril will allow us to massively project force across both death valley, thus protecting supply caravans, and the northen half of Karag Eight Peaks, allowing us to take better fights. Instead of forcing a fight holding Karag Ril allows us to better choose our fights. This will reduce causalities and increase moral. Taking the city of pillar would be a huge coup and effectively allow us to strike anywhere else in the Karag at will. Taking Karag Zilfin allows us to take the west gate. This completely changes the nature of our position from one that is being squeezed to squeezing everyone else. If we hold the west gate, the east gate, and Karag Ril we would hold every known way to get into Karag 8 peaks. Sure the skaven and the green skins will likely have their own hidden ways in and out but any large forces could be kept outside as we keep mountain hopping around.

Basically in my opinion Karag Ril is the best place to take next for the ability it gives us to choose our fights better, it's ability to protect our supply lines, and the future expansion paths it provides.
 
Another topic, for those who are more knowledgeable about the setting:

What Peak would be the next one to try and take, hypothetically?
Which ones are closest, if Belegar adopts a slow-but-steady approach? I'm assuming the one with the trolls is nearby, since that was our other option besides the Citadel.
Do we know anything about the other 'canon' content of the 5 Peaks still in Grobi hands?
Wasn't there one in particular we needed to take to secure Death Pass, and another one that would let us go back to Barak Varr safely? Are either of those one of the main Peaks, or are those a minor location like Uzgar where we scared the rats out?
I don't think this is really dependent upon setting lore so much as basic tactics. The relevant principle here is "you want to be able to defend as much space as possible via as few points as possible, and you want every one of those points to give its defenders the best advantage they possibly can". If you look at the map:
The Citadel is key to the overland defense of the area because it means that any ground-based assault originating from within the Karak has to charge up a massive cliff while being bombarded with artillery fire; without taking it they can bombard our overland movement with artillery instead. But notice that it creates a new point of underground vulnerability, which must be defended against attack from two directions.

Because of this, Kvinn-Wyr is a very attractive next target. Not only does it shorten our line of overland defense as we'll be able to consider the entire eastern valley secure, meaning that Karag Nar, the East Gate, and Karag Lhune all no longer need to fear attack from one direction, taking it will also allow us to effectively shorten our lines of underground defense because we can move the Citadel underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr and the East Gate underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr both to the Kvinn-Wyr location and point them toward Karag Mhonar. It would do a lot to mark a lot of zones enemy-free. Once that's taken the next expansion wave should probably be aimed toward sweeping Grobi Town and as many of the southern peaks as possible, because if we hold the central position then each peak that we take does nothing to increase our underground vulnerability to attack, so taking them purely marks out safe territory. But we'll need a lot more people to occupy those peaks.

Karagril is the closest from Karag Lhune but trying to take it is exceedingly dangerous, because it's got a direct underground line to the orc fortress in the next Karak over and to our other enemies in other parts of Karak Eight Peaks, and it's as vulnerable to overland assault as much as any giant dwarf mountain is, while being far enough removed from the East Valley area that taking it doesn't actually secure any new territory. Basically, we'd be establishing a fairly conflict-ridden forward position for no serious gains. The only reason to take it next would be if we don't think that we'll be able to protect Und-Uzgar and the associated road to Barak Varr unless we have artillery watching over that section of Death Pass. Arguably, Karagril should be left for the very last thing we conquer in the Karak, since it's potentially going to provoke a fight with a major external force to take it.
 
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That is true, deliberately placing the mercenary forces in places where they will take the most losses is quite different from leading from the front.

However, Codrin has no legal, moral, or personal obligation to ensure these people survive. He was elected to lead them because he has worked with Morrites, is a good shot with a bow, and was of a high position within the "Militia" (undefined, likely local). These mercenaries are aligned underlings.

Furthermore, those mercenaries will get paid once the campaign (or this relevant portion) is finished. Taking gold (Which likely belongs rightfully to the dwarves) is pillaging. Pillaging would likely be defined as a crime, the severity of which could include public-execution (unsure of specific laws regarding severity in fiction setting). Pillaging from dwarfs during their own campaign would lead to strictly worse relations between Codrin's allies and the dwarfs.

As for Mathilde being required to defend Empire citizens... did you know most people don't consider Sylvania (which many of these mercenaries come from) part of the Empire. So actually, in Mathilde's eyes these people might as well be considered foreign mercenaries.



Mercenaries dying in battle for strategic reasons and tactical reasons is different from

Mercenaries dying because their leader was trying to get them killed in the first place ( maybe it's just war strategy and tactics or it could be something unreasonable like Codein wanting more money for those he seemed deserve it more), from the thread Codin has hinted he wants to get rid of some mercenaries for some reason.

While you have no idea if he's getting them killed on purpose or were they just casualties of war, since people don't want to bother investigating him, assuming he's innocent or guilty of conspiracy to murder is unknown.

Mathilde has a duty to humanity to fight against injustice and evil, so far since the thread didn't investigate Codrin, she is neglecting it, she may never know if he is guilty or innocent of anything. So don't assume that he has valid reasons for getting people killed, it could be greeted, racism, seeing people (racism) Sylvania a as expendable enough to throw their lives deliberately to save money.


And once again wanting to be paid handsomely is not a good enough reason for your boss to find ways to get rid of you as the main objective itself, or whatever warp ethics Codrin has that makes it ok to thin the herd, rather than dying as a effect of war to accomplish a strategic or tactical goal.
 
I don't think this is really dependent upon setting lore so much as basic tactics. The relevant principle here is "you want to be able to defend as much space as possible via as few points as possible, and you want every one of those points to give its defenders the best advantage they possibly can". If you look at the map:
The Citadel is key to the overland defense of the area because it means that any ground-based assault originating from within the Karak has to charge up a massive cliff while being bombarded with artillery fire; without taking it they can bombard our overland movement with artillery instead. But notice that it creates a new point of underground vulnerability, which must be defended against attack from two directions.
The Citadel is as fortified against underground assault as overland, as I understand.
 
I don't think this is really dependent upon setting lore so much as basic tactics. The relevant principle here is "you want to be able to defend as much space as possible via as few points as possible, and you want every one of those points to give its defenders the best advantage they possibly can". If you look at the map:
The Citadel is key to the overland defense of the area because it means that any ground-based assault originating from within the Karak has to charge up a massive cliff while being bombarded with artillery fire; without taking it they can bombard our overland movement with artillery instead. But notice that it creates a new point of underground vulnerability, which must be defended against attack from two directions.

Because of this, Kvinn-Wyr is a very attractive next target. Not only does it shorten our line of overland defense as we'll be able to consider the entire eastern valley secure, meaning that Karag Nar, the East Gate, and Karag Lhune all no longer need to fear attack from one direction, taking it will also allow us to effectively shorten our lines of underground defense because we can move the Citadel underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr and the East Gate underground defenses pointed toward Kvinn-Wyr both to the Kvinn-Wyr location and point them toward Karag Mhonar. It would do a lot to mark a lot of zones enemy-free. Once that's taken the next expansion wave on that area of the mountain should probably be aimed toward sweeping Grobi Town and as many of the southern peaks as possible, because if we hold the central position then each peak that we take does nothing to increase our underground vulnerability to attack, so taking them purely marks out safe territory. But we'll need a lot more people to occupy those peaks.

Karagril is the closest from Karag Lhune but trying to take it is exceedingly dangerous, because it's got a direct underground line to the orc fortress in the next Karak over and to our other enemies in other parts of Karak Eight Peaks, and it's as vulnerable to overland assault as much as any giant dwarf mountain is, while being far enough removed from the East Valley area that taking it doesn't actually secure any new territory. Basically, we'd be establishing a fairly conflict-ridden forward position for no serious gains. The only reason to take it next would be if we don't think that we'll be able to protect Und-Uzgar and the associated road to Barak Varr unless we have artillery watching over that section of Death Pass. Arguably, Karagril should be left for the very last thing we conquer in the Karak, since it's potentially going to provoke a fight with a major external force to take it.
I really don't think Kvinn-Wyr should be the next target. It is flooded with trolls which would make it a highly costly place to take. We don't have any slayers left and don't have the flame equipment necessary to easily clear it out. The trolls should mostly keep to themselves. I feel the cost in men and equipment to take the peak outweighs the risk of leaving it well alone.

Holding Karagril allows us to separate the greenskins from black crag and the rest of the greenskins in Karag 8 peaks. It will keep the enemy separate while only being one junction to hold. Taking the underway beneath Kvinn-Wyr would be very helpful as it reduces our underground defense footprint significantly, but I don't think moving up into the mountain is needed at all.
 
The Citadel is as fortified against underground assault as overland, as I understand.
That's reassuring, although I admit I have difficulty thinking of how one would fortify an underground passage to match "you have to run up to and climb a giant cliff while being shot by cannon".

I really don't think Kvinn-Wyr should be the next target. It is flooded with trolls which would make it a highly costly place to take. We don't have any slayers left and don't have the flame equipment necessary to easily clear it out. The trolls should mostly keep to themselves. I feel the cost in men and equipment to take the peak outweighs the risk of leaving it well alone.

Holding Karagril allows us to separate the greenskins from black crag and the rest of the greenskins in Karag 8 peaks. It will keep the enemy separate while only being one junction to hold. Taking the underway beneath Kvinn-Wyr would be very helpful as it reduces our underground defense footprint significantly, but I don't think moving up into the mountain is needed at all.
Killing trolls is only costly if you have to do it fast and hard, as in a conventional battle situation. Trolls are stupid and disorganized as a rule, meaning that if we carefully whittle away at their population over the course of a few weeks instead of forcing the peak in a few hours we should be able to systematically cull them with minimal casualties. This does mean that we'll have to slow down the pace of our conquest a fair bit but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Good call that we can take the underway and not worry about rushing the interior, though; that might be useful.

Invading Karagril is throwing a gauntlet at the greenskins in Black Crag and telling them to come fight us for Karak Eight Peaks if they're hard enough, which of course they'll answer with an immediate assault with everything they can throw at us. That's not a fight I want to pick, it's not a fight Belegar wants to pick, it shouldn't be a fight anyone wants to pick. While there's only one underground junction to hold there it's vulnerable to assault from three separate directions and we know that there are at least two factions with interests in the area, so we could potentially end up under assault from multiple directions at once. Let's just not poke our nose into that meat grinder until we have to.
 
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