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Knowing what he was doing while that happened might not be Mathilde's first priority, but it might be exactly the kind of stuff Mira would like to know to discredit him I think.
It would take another week to go get them and Shadowsteed them to Talabheim.
A moment there I was really confused because I couldn't remember asking this question but I also can't always trust my memory. Turns out there must have been a formating error with the quote.
He would have joined the Grey Order during or immediately after the sieges. He wouldn't join in, but for this family, there'd be a blind eye or two to be found.
So he wouldn't turn her in. But what does Mathilde, who was raised by him to some extent, think he would feel after learning that she is this kind of person? Because personally I think he would be more disappointed than anything else. We don't know how he feels about her religion, but not every Ranaldite is a larcenist.
@Boney is elspeth von draken old enough to have experienced the night of thousand arcane duels? Would she already have made a name for herself at that time (Wizard of Nuln / Lady Magister)?
I'm pretty sure Elspeth von Draken is older than the Colleges. Or is that just a rumor?
If there was a bigger bonus than that, then we were not privy to it. Boney does not give bonuses that big. Even venturing into other quests you'll find it hard to find +100 on a roll. I remember Rhunrikki Strollar had a few, but those were from Thungni and the Ancestor Gods, which is where I would expect +100s to be thrown around.
Fun trivia: In the CK2 computer game +/- 100 is the cap for how high/low someone's opinion of you can be, which affects pretty much any requests and much more. Love and Friendship is an automatic +100 (which can then be reduced by other factors but not really increased beyond that). So while at first I thought the round bonus was kind of arbitrary, +100 actually makes sense and gies back to the roots of the system.
I'm going to be honest, I don't think pulling in the Lights will save us research AP. I think they'll make the research AP more effective, and potentially give us a better result than we can hope for by ourselves, but I'm not prepared to sacrifice two AP, raise the risk of Heidi's secret being discovered, and interfere with magic dad bonding time for a learning boost when we're perfectly capable of doing it without them.
Actually I wondered about that.
@Boney Do Regimand and anyone we potentially bring on board do the same investigation actions as Mathilde, essentially following her around to lend their expertize and/or occasionally split up to handle different aspects of the same plan that we voted for? Or do they do their own thing based on their best judgement that may well take them somewhere completely different over those three weeks?
 
[X] Plan Redshirt v1
[X] Plan Renegotiation

Really hope we can negotiate with Mira. Getting a favor out of her could be pretty useful later on.

Also I think we should bring a Light Wizard to this. Daemons are not our expertise and getting over confident with them, thinking other people help wouldn't be useful, seems pretty arrogant to me.
 
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[X] Plan Redshirt v1


Really hope we can negotiate with Mira. Getting a favor out of her could be pretty useful later on.

Also I think we should bring a Light Wizard to this. Daemons are not our expertise and getting over confident with them, thinking other people help wouldn't be useful, seems pretty arrogant to me.

You could look at it as arrogance, personally I look at it as being a lady magister of the empire, there are only so many of them around. The simple fact that we have called in another Grey Magister has already pulled in resources from some other urgent matter. Now people are talking about pulling in multiple LMs who have their own even more urgent stuff to do.
 
My personal preference is bringing in Alric but sure :

[X] Plan Bring in the Lights
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Bring in Egrimm and Elrisse
-[X] Research: Underworld Turbulence

[X] Plan Bring in Elrisse
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Bring in Elrisse
-[X] Research: Underworld Turbulence

[X] Plan Sticking to Our Strengths
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Approach Alric directly
-[X] Research: Underworld Turbulence

Also approval voting for those since they include renegociation which I think we should do as soon as possible :


[X] Plan Renegotiation
[X] Plan Redshirt v1
 
While bringing in Light College assistance might make the goal of stopping the demon smoother (I think it probably would on net, but by a pretty marginal amount). I think it would naturally make the goal of keeping any potential irregularities under wraps quite a bit more difficult. So overall with that in mind and the other potential stumbling blocks it entails. I've cooled off on the idea.

If we do go ahead with it though, I actually think it makes more sense to do it next set of actions rather than this one. It would both mean we've cleanly fulfiiled the original deal (As opposed to just "technically" fulfiilng it as we have at the moment) and we'd have more information on hand to bargain with and help shape the form of aid the Lights end up sending. Since we've got enough actions available that are quite clearly in the Grey College domain and wouldn't benefit much from outside help waiting wouldn't cost much.

Interrogate, Alberich's fate, Alberich's life, and Investigate the Manor for example are all actions I think wouldn't gain much from additional experts. With Murder Rituals falling into a grey area in that it comes up often enough in both College's areas.
 
Here's my opinion on the options:

First of all we should decide how much we care about the individual Unfähiger lives. The kind of effort spent if we focus on solving the mystery and catching the culprit is not necessarily the same as trying to play bodyguard to a bunch of nobles. Our approach is also different if we consider eight weeks a strict time table than if we are more or less okay with two more deaths. That said:

[ ] Bring in the Empress

I really wanted to do this, but I don't see an easy and (relatively) low risk way to do so given the option that we overwhelmingly voted for. Any other option would have allowed for a smooth insertion (except maybe the Favor to Ranald type options). So I guess this is out for now.

[ ] Bring in Lord Magister Egrimm

I think that the risk of him blabbing should be easily mitigateable. That said, if we wanted him here, why the hell didn't we vote for that immediately? As I see it the voters already expressed their concern with putting Egrimm in this position, even if I disagreed with the majority at the time.

[ ] Bring in Lady Magister Elrisse

I don't like bringing Elrisse. She pretty much explicitly doesn't oppose Alric and won't be keen to play these kinds of petty games. She joined the Waystone Project when asked by her current Matriarch and agreed in part because in her eyes it was one step removed from getting directly involved in those politics. Also, unlike Egrimm, she doesn't work for us directly. She represents the Light Order, which works with us on the Waystone Project. All in all we can't trust that she won't blab or otherwise act in a way we don't like her to, even if Mira tells her to play nice.

[ ] Bring in Egrimm and Elrisse

See above. We can do this if we need the extra firepower due to getting close to not stopping the plot in time. But at that point we should also consider going to Alric after all.

[ ] Renegotiate with Mira

I am generally in favor of this option. But I don't see why we should do it right now. Since I'm not very interested in bringing our own Light Wizards on board it makes more sense to me if we wait with doing that until we have something more concrete to show her.

[ ] Bring in someone else: specify who

I like the idea of hiring the Stirlander to reveal her knowledge on Albrecht.

[ ] Approach Alric directly

Well, this kind of goes against our hopes here. That said, if the seventh murder happens and we are still none the wiser, I think it's time to put aside petty squabbles and approach him. That's still a while off though.

[ ] Interrogate the spa Unfahigers

Too high risk and I don't see how the reward would be much higher than doing this to his family in the lodge. Except maybe if Alric has been sharing his progress with him in detail. But even then, consensus seems to be that finding out stuff Alric doesn't yet know is a better approach than following in his footsteps.

[ ] Approach the hunting lodge Unfahigers

This one depends on how much we care about actually protecting them. I am currently ambivalent. Maybe next turn if we find out little and our best course of action is catching the perpetrator in the act.
One thing we could do if we choose this option is to tell them exactly what not to do in order to not be in the kind of situation that makes setting up their murder choreography easy.

[ ] Interrogate the hunting lodge Unfahigers

This is one of the straight forward investigation options I am not opposed to. But I actually don't expect them to know all that much, given that they are innocent when it comes to the revenge motive and also otherwise have probably no connection to Chaos.

[ ] Investigate Krieglitz Manor

Another straightforward investigation option, though like it a bit extra due to Mathilde's incredible windsight (which by the way I have been wanting to show off to a Grey Wizard colleague for ages). That said, the trail is pretty cold by now.

[ ] Plunder Krieglitz Manor

I know I asked questions about this, but I don't actually care one bit about doing it. Except if we stumble upon something truly amazing while investigating the place. Then maybe. Next mini-turn.

[ ] Research: Alberich's life

This is one of the straightforward investigation options, but I am a bit more ambivalent on it. We already know the pattern and I don't know how directly relevant his previous personality is to combatting what he has become now.
That said, if we go down this investigation route then I'd like the Stirlander on board first.

[ ] Research: Alberich's fate

This one is a bit extra interesting in order to confirm if we are actually dealing with a Chaos Undivided plot.

[ ] Research: Alberich's form

Other than investigating the murders themselves, I don't see how this would be more than blind guessing. Even with the best books and experts Chaos is Chaos. The Warp can have done literally anything to the guy. He may be a slave with a broken body and barely coherent mind, his vague feelings of revenge used to make way for another force. Or he may have ascended to Daemon Prince and been directly whisked away to his new home, now sending his own minions to do his bidding.

[ ] Research: Chaotic Vengeance

An okay research option, but nothing really draws me to it compared to the other ones I like. I'll probably still approval vote for plans that include it.

[ ] Research: Murder Rituals

While applying our newly gained skills is fun, right now our goal should be to interrupt the ritual no matter what. And the best way to do that is to stop the murders. The actual details about what might happen don't really matter. We know it will be bad and we can look into how bad once we think that stopping it is less likely. Around the time where we should be approaching Alric anyway I guess. Who himself will know this kind of stuff better than we ever will.

[ ] Research: Underworld Turbulence

I don't know how relevant this is to the case and it is an added risk because we might step on the feet of one or more completely unrelated Chaos conspiracies that may retaliate, but I still kinda wanna do it. I'm just curious. In part of course because of the Everchosen contest we know about OOC. But it might well be relevant to what we are doing right here and now as well.

Next I'm going to check the actual plans people are voting for.
 
So apparently hiring the Stirlander isn't anywhere in the tally. Disappointing. I'll have to come up with a few plans of my own I guess.

[X] Plan Ask The Stirlander And Do The Legwork
-[X] Bring in someone else: The Stirlander so she shares what she knows about Alberich.
-[X] Investigate Krieglitz Manor
-[X] Interrogate the hunting lodge Unfahigers

[X] Plan Stirlander + Casting a Wide Net
-[X] Bring in someone else: The Stirlander so she shares what she knows about Alberich.
-[X] Investigate Krieglitz Manor
-[X] Research: Underworld Turbulence

Approval:

[X] Plan Contacts and Spellwork

[X] Plan Research
[X] Plan CoolPlanName
[X] Plan CSI: Empire

I will also approve any combinations of the below, with preference given to plans that bring in the Stirlander.

[ ] Bring in someone else: The Stirlander
[ ] Interrogate the hunting lodge Unfahigers
[ ] Investigate Krieglitz Manor
[ ] Research: Alberich's fate
[ ] Research: Underworld Turbulence

On top of that I am also okay with any of the following actions if they are part of a plan I otherwise like or something I dislike is beating out any of my preferred combinations:

[ ] Research: Alberich's life
[ ] Research: Chaotic Vengeance

[ ] Research: Murder Rituals
[ ] Research: Alberich's form
[ ] Approach the hunting lodge Unfahigers

The last three I don't think are good investments of our time right now, but I don't actively dislike them so I'll vote for them if something I do actively dislike is winning.
 
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Sorry just thought of an additional follow-up, would she have already make a name for herself as a reputable/highly ranked wizard at that time? I.e. Dark lady of Nuln or LM

No.

Can I ask who does Mathilde view as her closest bond as of this update?

Possibly Johann.

I should also say, sometimes I see people fall under the impression that mortals can only become Daemons if they ascend to Daemon Princehood, but I have to say that that's not true. Neiglish Rot, Nurgle's unique magical disease that eats away at the soul as well as the body, has a special effect that has a chance of turning whoever is infected with it into a Plaguebearer. This is the only case of mortals turning into Daemons without becoming Princes that I can remember at the moment, but if that's possible, then I don't see why mortals can't become Daemons without jumping straight to Daemon Prince.

Other middle grounds are Darksouls and Exalted Daemons.

And I'm really not sure how feasible collaborating with Alric will be after we strike a deal with Mira. Mira is almost certainly going to stipulate that we don't do that:

As long as Mathilde claims half the credit, that would still serve Mira's cause.

Would it be possible to drop of information on the current state of the manor to some other parties who might be interested if we don't want to poke around ourselves, maybe those whom could be vouchsafed by a mutual friend of ours?

It would be one way to as Mathilde says put their wealth to worthier causes. Maybe. Depends how Ranald's feeling.

Conventional thieves usually don't have Magesight or knowledge about how Daemons operate, so would quite sensibly turn down an opportunity to take a run at Daemonmurder Manor.

So he wouldn't turn her in. But what does Mathilde, who was raised by him to some extent, think he would feel after learning that she is this kind of person? Because personally I think he would be more disappointed than anything else. We don't know how he feels about her religion, but not every Ranaldite is a larcenist.

Mathilde thinks it unlikely that Regimand would have deeply-held convictions about the moral righteousness of the Unfahigers' claim to the looted wealth of the Empire. This is not an ancient ancestral home of the Unfahigers, they're from Stirland, they only established themselves in Talabheim after Dieter IV was ousted as Emperor.

I'm pretty sure Elspeth von Draken is older than the Colleges. Or is that just a rumor?

The von Draken family is. The closest thing we get to a confirmed age for Elspeth is that her tower has been standing in Nuln for 'three generations' as of around 2520. Some people think she's been around for centuries, some people think she's 'just' the most recent scion of the family and that she's 60 or 70 at this point.

@Boney Do Regimand and anyone we potentially bring on board do the same investigation actions as Mathilde, essentially following her around to lend their expertize and/or occasionally split up to handle different aspects of the same plan that we voted for? Or do they do their own thing based on their best judgement that may well take them somewhere completely different over those three weeks?

Anyone brought in will assist where appropriate and do their own zero-risk background investigations when they can.
 
So I really think that working with more Light mages is the way to go - if the daemon pops its head up and gets blasted into oblivion it doesn't matter what it wants to say. I'm just torn as to the details of how to do that without tipping our hand. Ultimately, I think renegotiating with Mira is a given if we're bringing in Lights, at which point we might as well bring in both.

[X] Plan Allies All Over
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Bring in Egrimm and Elrisse
-[X] Bring in Roswita Van Hal

If there's anyone who already knows the details of Alberich's life, Roswita will know who and will be able to call on them. She's an Elector Count so I don't see her getting involved directly, but she's also someone that this daemon could plausibly target if it runs its course here (moving on from the Unfahigers to the Van Hal's would make sense if it's targeting those it sees as wronging its family - the Van Hals usurped its family's position after all)

[X] Plan Specialisation
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Bring in Egrimm and Elrisse
-[X] Research: Alberich's life

Rather than approaching Roswita we could just do the research ourselves, using our access to various aspects of the intelligence system in Stirland.

[X] Plan "Thank you for helping with our investigation, Alric"
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Bring in Egrimm and Elrisse
-[X] Approach Alric directly

This plan works on the basis that Alric, working alone, won't be able to hold onto the glory if three other LMs are involved. He's not a Patriarch, he can't claim to have led the whole thing - we came across it and called in our good friends from the Waystone Project, then noticed Alric was already involved and asked him for help too.

[X] Plan Bring in the Lights
 
Other middle grounds are Darksouls and Exalted Daemons.
Can someone chime in with a bit of info on these?

All I know about Exalted Daemons is that they are versions of classical Daemon types that are above their siblings in some way. Essentially Daemon heroes. What kinds of examples of mortals becoming them are there?
As for Darksouls, I have no idea who or what they are.
 
As for Darksouls, I have no idea who or what they are.
They first emerged after Mordheim got struck by a massive Warpstone comet, and have since made occasional reappearances among the Kurgan. Essentially, take a regular person, and shove a Daemon inside of them for a while. Before they've finished exploding into a Chaos Spawn from the uncontained Warp energies coursing through them, pull the Daemon back out of them. And so, you have a violently unstable, frothing at the mouth mutated berserker augmented with partial 'muscle memory' of the Daemon's own combat ability, ready for any fight and now utterly bereft of any capacity for pity, mercy or comprehending the concept of surrender.

That's more or less what a Darksoul is.
 
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Following on from the weird coincidence of it taking four days for Regimand to contact us, we're now hanging out with the man who's the closest thing we have to a father... shortly after discovering that Ranald himself is a father and blessed our coin with a father based aspect.

I know it's all coincidences and stuff... but it makes you wonder, and maybe even believe a little...

Anyway, let us honour Ranald the Father with some quality family bonding time.
 
Can someone chime in with a bit of info on these?

All I know about Exalted Daemons is that they are versions of classical Daemon types that are above their siblings in some way. Essentially Daemon heroes. What kinds of examples of mortals becoming them are there?
As for Darksouls, I have no idea who or what they are.
Darksouls first appeared as the result of individuals who traded their very souls for Daemonic power
Opening themselves up to Daemonic possession whereupon the Daemonic presence possessing ate their soul
Weirdly though, unlike the creation of a Daemonhost the Daemon doesn't stay, instead leaving a souless, feral husk behind, a Darksoul

A far less voluntary method of creating Darksouls has since been developed, where servants of Chaos bind a poor unfortunate within a summoning circle as a conduit to briefly summon a Daemon into

Notably since the possession is so brief Darksouls typically aren't actually mutated, though they're typically scarred and disfigured from both the experience, and from their subsequent lifestyle after being driven violently insane


Warhammer Exalted Daemons are actually also people who embraced possession from Daemons, becoming Daemonhost warriors with Daemonic powers, rather than a higher form of Daemon
The Daemon possessing them also tends to slowly feed off of their hosts soul and life essence, which might eventually burn out the Exalted
But some Exalted manage to either coexist or even master their Daemon, allowing them to live indefinitely
 
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[X] Plan Research
-[X] Interrogate the hunting lodge Unfahigers
-[X] Research: Murder Rituals
-[X] Investigate Krieglitz Manor

I do like the idea of seeing who it is that's been deemed unimportant to protect. Seems like an interesting stage for Bony to *do the work* they do so well. And exploring a spooky manor alongside some Murder 'research sounds like fun. It was exploring such a manor that gave her the first taste of combat, so very *very* long ago.
 
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