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[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
[x] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[x] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[x] Taking Kvinn-Wyr would mean we have every Karag flanking the Eastern Valley.
 
Explaining about hurting Mork is strategic information here. We don't know what the dwarves could do with it, or the high priest of Ulric that's also at the table, but we can't assume that it's nothing. Their gods may not even be aware of what happened, and may need to be told, so they can take advantage, for example, given the strong limitations that gods nature imposes on them. They aren't people and can't think and act like people.

That's pretty good, actually if the empowerment have permanent effect, Mathilde could be their patron, backing them with all the resources an adventurer need and limited protection from the authorities in exchange for future favours from their adventures.

I'd expect any permanent effects to mostly be limited to unveiling latent potential in all but the most exceptional cases. If any adventurers here are sufficiently heroic and already hate greenskins I could see it doing a tiny bit more, particularly if any happen to be dwarf friends already.

The only problem here is that our revenue stream isn't that good still to support that level of funding. If our lands were richer and we didn't nearly crit fail our resource prospecting rolls for our lands, that's another matter altogether. Money, I think is going to be a significant limiting factor in this campaign, and we haven't snowballed to the point where we can afford to back an entire mercenary band easily on our finances alone.

I think we might want to act as a recruiter to recommend promising adventurers to the Colleges as retinues for their Journeymen and more adventurous Magisters rather than hiring many personally.

It would certainly make sense for her to consider sponsoring a small adventuring team if she stays in Karak Eight Peaks for a few years after the initial campaign is resolved. Dwarves won't use her enchantments, but if she can improve her enchantment skills enough there are some scenarios where a small unit of special forces equipped with rechargeable (so they can't steal it) Doppleganger, Take No Heed and Shadowcloak items might be incredibly useful.

Particularly as if multiple enemy locations are hit simultaneously it makes it much more of a strategic problem for the enemy.
 
Why on earth would hurting the enemies' patron god give Mathilde a reputation hit? Do you think they would prefer the results of whatever massive ritual the orcs were cooking up if it had gone off? This should increase their trust in her, as she just saved their asses by 'luckily' being in the right place at the right time to derail it. The results of the orcs sudden, disorganised attack was also pretty great for the Expedition. They'd have had to kill those greenskins at some point, and thanks to Mathilde they put themselves exactly where the Expedition needed them to be at a time when they had prepared firing lines. It's much better than having to storm Grobi-town or the Citadel with the enemy at full strength and fully organised by black orcs. Beyond that, how many people in the Warhammer world can legitimately say they've taken a swing at an evil god and made it count? This sounds like a legendary feat that the dwarves would laud her for, not criticise.

The Council won't ask how she did it, because the humans know better than to ask a Grey Magister about the details of their magic and prying into someone else's trade secrets is something no self-respecting dwarf would ever do.
Also I'm not sure why we'd lose reputation here. Saying we blew up an Ork ritual and the blowback seems to have hurt Mork and caused him to be pissed off enough that he actually punched his own guys shouldn't make anyone distrust Mathilde.
I see you didn't entirely read my post. I said that the council will be happy to see Mork being weaken, but the issue lies with the method of her achieving that. Sure, she can just wave it off as magic, but people will still get suspicious since said magic somehow managed to gain the attention of an Ork god and poked the proverbial greenskin nest. It worked out well this time because expedition was prepared for an attack from the citadel, but things could have gone really badly and it was only due to luck and preparation that things worked out well. My point is, what Mathilde achieved was something great, but it was also something reckless and could easily backfired on us. Doesn't help that in this case, she won't give out the full story of what actually happened and while some would believe its the idol fault, those who are skeptical of magic will have a more negative assumption in the matter. Ultimately, it's just speculation on how people would react and the worst case scenario I mentioned would most likely not happened due to our relative positive relationship with most of our allies.
 
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[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] Taking Kvinn-Wyr would mean we have every Karag flanking the Eastern Valley.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
I see you didn't entirely read my post. I said that the council will be happy to see Mork being weaken, but the issue lies with the method of her achieving that. Sure, she can just wave it off as magic, but people will still get suspicious since said magic somehow managed to gain the attention of an Ork god and poked the proverbial greenskin nest. It worked out well this time because expedition was prepared for an attack from the citadel, but things could have gone really badly and it was only due to luck and preparation that things worked out well. My point is, what Mathilde achieved was something great, but it was also something reckless and could easily backfired on us. Doesn't help that in this case, she won't give out the full story of what actually happened and while some would believe its the idol fault, those who are skeptical of magic will have a more negative assumption in the matter. Ultimately, it's just speculation on how people would react and the worst case scenario I mentioned would most likely not happened due to our relative positive relationship with most of our allies.

Mathilde chose to intervene in the ritual already knowing that the preparations were in place to hammer the greenskins if they attacked. That wasn't luck, that was judgement. The other thing is that you're assuming a counter-factual that doesn't hold. Imagine that Mathilde had disrupted the ritual, infuriating the dwarf gods powering it without hurting them. Then you'd have had furious full strength orc gods intervening, rather than furious injured orc gods. Which is better? A rogue idol of Gork chest bursting out of Karak Nar when its artillery was pointed the other way would also have been a pretty terrible situation.

Mathilde made the best of a bad situation, and if presented correctly the options she had should be described as:
  1. Sitting back and letting a Rogue Idol of Mork/Gork wake up and attack the dwarves' defensive lines from the rear.
  2. Sabotaging the ritual and having a full strength furious god empower and motivate his worshippers to punish the interlopers, while also allowing the ritual failure backlash to manifest right on top of herself and the dwarves attacking Karag Nar.
  3. Sabotaging the ritual, hurting the sponsoring god with the backlash and having an injured furious god empower and motivate his worshippers to punish the interlopers.
Of these, option three is clearly best. I did read your post. It just doesn't make sense given the choices Mathilde will retrospectively present.

You've also messed up your quote.

The Idol is a dangerous greenskin ritual.

ID we explain about injuring Mork do we have to explain the nature of the ritual, or could we let them assume that he was hurt in the process of Mathilde sabotaging the ritual, or by her redirecting the backlash to hit him?
 
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I see you didn't entirely read my post. I said that the council will be happy to see Mork being weaken, but the issue lies with the method of her achieving that.
'I disrupted an orc ritual' is pretty clear, there; there was a ritual that the god was involved with and when things turned hot it got its fingers burnt.

I think you may not understand the dwarven mindset around proprietary secrets, either. This is a race who's lost almost half of their incredibly powerful magical lore because they refused to share it with anybody they didn't personally find worthy. They'll understand keeping secrets. The humans know we're of the college of keeping secrets, and almost contractually obligated to be mysterious and secretive; nobody's going to hold it against us for not giving them a blow-by-blow.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
Alright, speaking of the expedition nearing its end, let's see just how much this single expedition has accomplished.

We cleared Und-Uzgar of Skaven, opening up the potential to have secure passage between Barak Varr and Karak-Eight-Peaks. Hopefully, the connection between Und-Uzgar and the rest of Karak-Eight-Peaks will be excavated quickly allowing the expedition, or those that remain, to properly project force over the Death Pass ensuring the safety of the supply caravans coming to resupply and rearm the hold.

We broke through the East Gate, allowing the expedition access to the greater Karak-Eight-Peaks, and, more importantly, we were able to hold it. Now with the door to the Karak opened, more troops and supplies can flow into the Reclamation force, so long as it can be protected during its travels through the small section of the Death Pass that we can project force over. It was the triumphal start of the Dwarven reconquest, and the battle will be sung about for centuries to come.

We recaptured Karag Lhune, which held an incredible amount of symbolism for the dwarves. Now names can be etched on the Hall of Oaths again, the process of cleaning out and sanctifying the temple to Grungni can begin, ancestral weapons and wealth can be used, but, likely most importantly, it was the first Karag reclaimed of Karak-Eight-Peaks which tells everyone that it is possible to begin reclaiming the hold. The Dwarves, for the first time in living memory, are winning rather than slowly dying from attrition.

We than recaptured Karag Nar in a brutal battle where Kragg the Grimm himself struck down countless Greenskins, humans once again demonstrated the valor that led to the ancient dwarven/human alliance, and dwarven artillery reaped a terrible toll on the Greenskins. While this climactic battle was taking place outside, dwarven soldiers were killing and dying to provide room to retreat back into the Karag so that the army outside could seek refuge behind dwarven fortifications. And then the Greenskins broke, and the mop-up began.

Two Karags are now King Belegar's, a full 1/4 of the peaks in a single expedition. The East Gate remains his, as well as the ability to project force over the relevant part of Death Pass to protect his supply line. Kvinn-Wyr is a neutral zone that protects our south-western flank with an entire ecosystem of trolls, which leaves five karags, the Citadel, the Underway, and the City of Pillars left to reclaim. With a mass of Greenskins in the Citadel having either died or fled into the surrounding land, the Citadel is open to attack and conquest.

While the time frame for all of this happening is a bit ambiguous, the frantic pace the Dwarves have been doing things leads me to believe that it's been only a couple of weeks at most. This much being done is a phenomenal amount of progress in the time frame. But it is, ultimately, an unsustainable amount of progress in the given timeframe. Three massive battles in such a time frame (East Gates, Karag Lhune, and Karag Nar) are going to take a toll on the readiness of the troops. Hopefully we can do a final push for the Citadel, as that would be a cherry on top of the fantastic progress of the expedition.

Longer-term, the reclamation of Karak-Eight-Peaks is looking like it will have sufficient resources, supplies, and troops to secure what they have gained and then start pushing for more. Unbeknownst to anyone, Karak Azul is sending a whole throng to help with the reclamation of Karak-Eight-Peaks. This will be much needed fresh bodies which can be put to work securing the ground already gained, and possibly even helping conquer even more territory. With the wealth from Karag Lhune and Karag Nar secured, proper payment of the soldiers can be made, and King Belegar will likely have a sufficient amount left over to start hiring mercenaries for more manpower.

Additionally, should we successfully conquer the Citadel, there may still be lesser vaults still intact there. Given this statement,
His final destination, the King's Armoury, was a topic of some concern for you. Belegar had made a fair few promises on behalf of the legendary riches of Karak Eight Peaks, but the main treasure vaults of the Karak were almost exactly opposite the Expedition, under Karag Zilfin, and the lesser ones were within Kvinn-Wyr and beneath the Citadel.
Getting access to more funds can only help King Belegar further fund the reclamation of Karak-Eight-Peaks and will provide some financial security for this whole endeavor.

However, there is still a lot of work to do for a total reclamation. Five more karags need to be cleared of Greenskins and Skaven, and another needs to be cleared of trolls. The Citadel has not been conquered yet, and for all that this is an opportunity we still need to do it. Then there is the Underway and the City of Pillars, filled with Skaven and Greenskins. Not much have been seen of the Skaven, which is both a relief and a concern, but the Reclamation will need to deal with them sooner or later. Furthermore, there is Karak Drazh to worry about, but such worry will likely deal with their potential raids of our supply train or reinforcing the Greenskins already here.

The Reclamation is surrounded by enemies and has a lot more work to do, but it is simply amazing how much King Belegar has been able to do in such a short time frame and with the wealth he has reclaimed, he is in a position to fortify and then launch more expeditions from a position of strength within the very Karak he seeks to put fully under his rule.
 
The bad part about this is that Mathilde will get a reputation hit and that her standing in the council will be negatively impacted.
No she won't, it's an impressive achievement and we aren't going to be telling them it was a desperate gamble. Mathilde is way better at intrigue than that.
Furthermore, while it is impressive that Mathilde was able to weaken Mork, the council will ask her how she actually did it in the first place.
No they won't? They aren't wizards, and know as little about magic as they can get away with. They will actively not want to pursue this line of enquiry.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
-[X] But tell Belegar about the weakening of Mork in private.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
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@BoneyM What does Mathilde think Ranald will think of options which reveal stuff about what happened?
Will he be annoyed/whatever if we hide his role in such a heist? And will revealing his role make him happy or, oppositely, piss him off?
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
Mathilde chose to intervene in the ritual already knowing that the preparations were in place to hammer the greenskins if they attacked. That wasn't luck, that was judgement. The other thing is that you're assuming a counter-factual that doesn't hold. Imagine that Mathilde had disrupted the ritual, infuriating the dwarf gods powering it without hurting them. Then you'd have had furious full strength orc gods intervening, rather than furious injured orc gods. Which is better? A rogue idol of Gork chest bursting out of Karak Nar when its artillery was pointed the other way would also have been a pretty terrible situation.

Mathilde made the best of a bad situation, and if she described the the options as she describes them were:
  1. Sitting back and letting a Rogue Idol of Mork/Gork wake up and attack the dwarves' defensive lines from the rear.
  2. Sabotaging the ritual and having a full strength furious god empower and motivate his worshippers to punish the interlopers, while also allowing the ritual failure backlash to manifest randomly right on top of herself and the dwarves attacking Karag Nar.
  3. Sabotaging the ritual, hurting the sponsoring god and having an injured furious god empower and motivate his worshippers to punish the interlopers.
Of these, option three is clearly best. I did read your post. It just doesn't make sense given the choices Mathilde will retrospectively present.

You've also messed up your quote.



ID we explain about injuring Mork do we have to explain the nature of the ritual, or could we let them assume that he was hurt in the process of MAthilde sabotaging the ritual?
Oh dear, I did mess up my quote here. Thanks for the heads up.

Still, most of this options was made only known after doing the deed. All Mathilde known before this was that there is an Black Orc Shaman and they were worshipping one idol, which was really suspicious. We went in without much consideration and it was through luck that what actually happened wasn't that bad. Yes, it was her judgement to deal with this suspicious enemy, but it was by luck that the effect wasn't as bad (or good) as it could have been. She could have been marked and considered as public enemy number one from the greenskin, an idol of Gork could have been summoned to deal with Mathilde, and it could have caused a major civil war between the greenskins. All of these outcomes were unknown to Mathilde and she did not consider too much the possibility of said outcomes when she did the deed. All she knew that they were doing something bad and that she needs to deal with it. The result of that is what we have, a big mess that ended with benefiting us and weakning the greenskins. But a mess is still a mess and I can see our allies being more cautious when we do things, since it will be expected that something unexpected will happen, an act that is either good or bad depending on how you view it.
 
We should write an account of Belegar's first expedition to Karak Eight Peaks - the epic journey to the Eight Peaks, the mustering of the throngs, the rallying of tens of thousands of men to stand with our oldest allies, and the astoundingly triumphant battles of The East Gate , the Storming of Karak Lhune and the epic Breaking of the Great Sally of Karag Nar, and the Seizure of the Citadel. We should get it published in Altdorf and Zhuftbar, and use it to stir the imagination of men and dwarves alike across the Empire and Karaz Ankor and inspire an entire generation of adventurers to continue the reconquest of the remaining Eight Peaks.
 
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[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
Oh dear, I did mess up my quote here. Thanks for the heads up.

Still, most of this options was made only known after doing the deed. All Mathilde known before this was that there is an Black Orc Shaman and they were worshipping one idol, which was really suspicious. We went in without much consideration and it was through luck that what actually happened wasn't that bad. Yes, it was her judgement to deal with this suspicious enemy, but it was by luck that the effect wasn't as bad (or good) as it could have been. She could have been marked and considered as public enemy number one from the greenskin, an idol of Gork could have been summoned to deal with Mathilde, and it could have caused a major civil war between the greenskins. All of these outcomes were unknown to Mathilde and she did not consider too much the possibility of said outcomes when she did the deed. All she knew that they were doing something bad and that she needs to deal with it. The result of that is what we have, a big mess that ended with benefiting us and weakning the greenskins. But a mess is still a mess and I can see our allies being more cautious when we do things, since it will be expected that something unexpected will happen, an act that is either good or bad depending on how you view it.
Right, so you're basing this opinion on things the QM has said about possible other roll outcomes. Things Mathilde doesn't know about, and the other members of the council definitely don't know about. Can you really not see why this is incorrect?
 
While the time frame for all of this happening is a bit ambiguous, the frantic pace the Dwarves have been doing things leads me to believe that it's been only a couple of weeks at most. This much being done is a phenomenal amount of progress in the time frame. But it is, ultimately, an unsustainable amount of progress in the given timeframe. Three massive battles in such a time frame (East Gates, Karag Lhune, and Karag Nar) are going to take a toll on the readiness of the troops. Hopefully we can do a final push for the Citadel, as that would be a cherry on top of the fantastic progress of the expedition.

This probably won't be such a problem for the dwarves, but for the men, we might want to see if we can lend the Torc of Fire to each of the human leaders to help them give some speeches about the necessity of that one last push in the time before we pull the trigger.

Still, most of this options was made only known after doing the deed. All Mathilde known before this was that there is an Black Orc Shaman and they were worshipping one idol, which was really suspicious. We went in without much consideration and it was through luck that what actually happened wasn't that bad. Yes, it was her judgement to deal with this suspicious enemy, but it was by luck that the effect wasn't as bad (or good) as it could have been. She could have been marked and considered as public enemy number one from the greenskin, an idol of Gork could have been summoned to deal with Mathilde, and it could have caused a major civil war between the greenskins. All of these outcomes were unknown to Mathilde and she did not consider too much the possibility of said outcomes when she did the deed. All she knew that they were doing something bad and that she needs to deal with it. The result of that is what we have, a big mess that ended with benefiting us and weakning the greenskins. But a mess is still a mess and I can see our allies being more cautious when we do things, since it will be expected that something unexpected will happen, an act that is either good or bad depending on how you view it.

The War Council don't know that she was operating without sufficient information and instead making it up as she went along. I mentioned before that the Grey College apparently literally teaches pretending that events were 'just as planned' when they actually just happened to work out right. For all they know she hit the ritual at a particular moment to tailor the backlash in a favourable manner.

In extremis, It's not as if precognition is unknown to either dwarves or men in the form of the Rune of Fate and the Celestial College, and it's understandable why people don't talk about that kind of thing.

We should write an account of Belegar's first expedition to Karak Eight Peaks - the epic journey to the Eight Peaks, the mastering of the throngs, the rallying of tens of thousands of men to stand with our oldest allies, and the astoundingly triumphant battles of The East Gate , the Storming of Karak Lhune and the epic Breaking of the Great Sally of Karag Nar, and the Seizure of the Citadel. We should get it published in Altdorf and Zhuftbar, and use it to stir the imagination across the Empire and Karaz Ankor and inspire an entire generation of adventurers to continue the reconquest of the remaining Eight Peaks.

And Barak Varr. Still, it's competing with quite a few other options. If we're marketing it to the dwarves, we might want Mathilde to learn Khazlid first though.
 
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[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
Oh dear, I did mess up my quote here. Thanks for the heads up.

Still, most of this options was made only known after doing the deed. All Mathilde known before this was that there is an Black Orc Shaman and they were worshipping one idol, which was really suspicious. We went in without much consideration and it was through luck that what actually happened wasn't that bad. Yes, it was her judgement to deal with this suspicious enemy, but it was by luck that the effect wasn't as bad (or good) as it could have been. She could have been marked and considered as public enemy number one from the greenskin, an idol of Gork could have been summoned to deal with Mathilde, and it could have caused a major civil war between the greenskins. All of these outcomes were unknown to Mathilde and she did not consider too much the possibility of said outcomes when she did the deed. All she knew that they were doing something bad and that she needs to deal with it. The result of that is what we have, a big mess that ended with benefiting us and weakning the greenskins. But a mess is still a mess and I can see our allies being more cautious when we do things, since it will be expected that something unexpected will happen, an act that is either good or bad depending on how you view it.

Literally none of this matters because there's no way Mathilde could have known any of it you're using OOC information and ascribing perfect knowledge of it IC to people that weren't there and will not know that these outcomes were possible. When what they will know is that IC Mathilde interrupted an enemy ritual. As a general rule letting enemies successfully utilise ritual magic when you're around and could be the target rates some where on the level of suicide.
 
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Right, so you're basing this opinion on things the QM has said about possible other roll outcomes. Things Mathilde doesn't know about, and the other members of the council definitely don't know about. Can you really not see why this is incorrect?
No. The point I was making is that there is a luck to the situation and that the situation was not entirely in Mathilde control. I was using what the GM said regarding the roll to highlight this since it confirmed my point about the uncertainty of the result of this situation and that Mathilde was pretty reckless for doing this without consideration of the possible impact. However...
The War Council don't know that she wasn't operating with sufficient information and instead making it up as she went along. I mentioned before that the Grey College apparently literally teaches pretending that events were 'just as planned' when they actually just happened to work out right. For all they know we hit the ritual at a moment to tailor the backlash in a favourable manner.
I will concede to this fact. Grey Wizards (or wizards in general) do like to pretend they know more than they actually do.
 
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