SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Because no one will help a proscribed god out from the good guy cults or even believe them.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Because no one will help a proscribed god out from the good guy cults or even believe them.
WhiteNights
Notorious Phoneposter
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mostly relevant to this -
That is neither close to how Mathilde thinks, how Boney portrayed Ranald's and Mathilde's relationship or even what this choice is asking us.
The concept of subjecting oneself utterly and without question is a very inherently Christian concept. It's not universal even irl religions.
It's not an easy influence to notice as we are on an English speaking website pretty much dedicated to English language media. And it's a type of thinking that I found myself fallen to it as well, and I'm not Christian or even living in a Christian majority country.
It's up there with omniscience and omnibenevolence with concepts people expect and project on Warhammer gods despite canon and in this quest, Boney, saying it's not relevant.
I doubt my explanation will change much, but since the vote is still so close...
I am here to have some fun and excitement. I suspect most of us, including the QM, are as well.
Now, what would be more istersting to read and, probably, write about?
The "Faith" vote, which is something pretty well tread, or "Truth" vote, which is, as far as I am aware, is treading entirely new ground?
These were the considerations that convinced me to vote for "Truth" in the end.
I am here to have some fun and excitement. I suspect most of us, including the QM, are as well.
Now, what would be more istersting to read and, probably, write about?
The "Faith" vote, which is something pretty well tread, or "Truth" vote, which is, as far as I am aware, is treading entirely new ground?
These were the considerations that convinced me to vote for "Truth" in the end.
- Location
- Internet, The
I think I understand where my confusion comes from.
I fully agree with you that the crystals present by far the best opportunity for researching what gods are literally made of. If that was your point, my confusion was in expecting something which I disagree with.
The meaningful sacrifice bit was more related to being contextual / emotional belonging.
I think it would be appropriate for Mathilde not to do experiments with Ranald's stuff without consent. (Tacit acceptance has been given so far, what with him overlooking her experiments and only objecting to one single experiment so far… and that one it turns out would have been dangerous to Mathilde's mental health.)
I don't think it is appropriate for Mathilde to hand over the decision on whether she will continue research on other divinities (including using the crystals) to Ranald. If he seriously objects, I'd still stop, but that is just a general thing. If Ranald seriously asks Mathilde to stop anything I'd most likely vote for stopping that.
I'm pretty sure any divine energy would work. "what gods actually do with that energy" is simply "subsuming it into being their own energy", which every divine energy they have inherently does.
I was talking about the vote under discussion, if we vote faith and Ranald tells us to stop this, he does not have to give a reason, he does not roll diplomacy to convince us, she will just do it. That is not an equal relationship and I think not one that should be called friendship.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
[x] Faith
I see the temptation either way, but between our high Piety, and our current main research goal with the waygates, I'm leaning Faith. If we had gone and just did a research institute without any goal, I'd swing the other way, but truth takes effort to do with controlled risks.
I see the temptation either way, but between our high Piety, and our current main research goal with the waygates, I'm leaning Faith. If we had gone and just did a research institute without any goal, I'd swing the other way, but truth takes effort to do with controlled risks.
[X] Faith
Yeah, I'm not sticking my dick in that beehive.
Yeah, I'm not sticking my dick in that beehive.
I think you mean Truth.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If the gods spot Mathilde doing this, and that isn;t a *given* but its also not an *imposibility* then they will make sure their cults know one way or the other. When dealing with gods you must always account for the possibility of divine intervention.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I mean, there is a chance that the God in question happens to not have a problem with it. It's unlikely outside of Ranald, but it's possible. We don't know what's going on inside their heads.
... Maybe they find our imitations flattering?
- Location
- not actually Urk, I just liked the alliteration
I'll apologize for misinterpreting you then - I think we're mostly in agreement. Direct experimentation / observation on a god would be crazy, but so long as we keep to cautious proxy observation the risk is manageable and the morality of it all is acceptable.
If Ranald asks, then we stop, and we keep the more invasive stuff to minor enemy gods.
My interpretation is that the god's "biology" is magical, and the subsuming magic is how they "eat", but we don't know how the spells that make up their "biology" / [interaction with the material plane] work, and even remote observation of the magical equivalent to a ball and socket joint in operation would be a boon to any magic user who isn't a god.
[X] Faith
OK, but which gods? No one is going to give a damn what the God of Bandits and Rustlers says.
WhiteNights
Notorious Phoneposter
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not really?
If you take a picture of a friend and he asks you to delete it, you should delete it. That's basic respect.
The friend doesn't have to justify why a picture of him makes him uncomfortable. You are not entitled to a picture of him either.
The faith option is asking him what's his opinion.
His opinion might be negative, since you know he doesn't like people looking at him and he is part of a group that doesn't like pictures.
But I rather have his opinion than not.
If the friend then asks me to give up photography because I have ritually sacrificed the photo in his name I would wonder what we both have been smoking.
- Location
- UK
Would they though?
I mean sure, if we do go ahead and steal a spark of Ulric and He finds out about it we will be in deep shit, but if we just don't do anything that could anger the friendly gods then even if they do find out we're plumbing the secrets of the divine, what would they actually do? They might not be happy, maybe think it magic foolishness, but quite frankly if Ulric sees us messing with gods not aligned with him and is so offended by the audacity of this mortal to reach beyond her position that He decides to instigate what's more or less a civil war in the Empire, I'm going to be for specifically doing that because He clearly doesn't have humanities best interests in mind.
It is clearly dangerous (Prometheus), and if the cults find out shit is going down, but Truth isn't determining on a course of action to go against all gods everywhere. Meanwhile danger from gods is already part of Mathilde's life, she fought a Greater Demon not long ago, and so long as the we don't anger their gods the cults are incredibly unlikely to find out on their own.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
At a quick guess of which gods would be unhappy with the plan is Morr (notable for having the most direct communication with his cult), the Lady, all of the ones that are mystery cults so Taal, Rhya and Ursun at least, Ulric and Sigmar are touchy about people messing with this stuff and that's just off the top of my head rather then a thought out list.
- Location
- Internet, The
I think the amazing part of the AV avenue is that is no invasive stuff. As the update said, it never even touched the divinity it imitates.
If we are talking about it in terms of biology, I think it is similar to growing a cell culture of something without ever actually touching the original organism.
The AV is basically a cell culture which automatically imitates nearby cell cultures without having to take anything from them.
OK so the gods everyone hates are going to go tattling to the people whom they hate... and are much stronger than them to tell them how we poured weird daemon juice on their stuff. I do not think that us likely.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
what? dude those gods I listed are the *most popular ones in the old world*. Like. if you want to risk the Truth vote be my guest. But don;t pretend its not dangerous whne both the Update and Word of boney says it is.
