Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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    • Scheduled vote count started by Neablis on Dec 2, 2024 at 4:49 AM, finished with 91 posts and 23 votes.
    • [X] Plan: Mag-Rail To Heavens
      -[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[X] You believe its yet again time for diving into the distinctly non-wonderful world of the faith of the Priesthood of Mars. This time, you are looking into its various internal sects. What are their goals and means, basically always being some form of technology they specialize in. Their philosophical and theological outlooks into technology as well as knowledge. The amount of political (and so almost always also military) power they wield. Maybe most importantly, what and who can be declared Heretek, and for what reason. Because if you are going to be sneaking in education to the acolytes of the Enclaves, you need to understand how to conceal them better in to the byzantine labyrinth that is the Mechanicus. Should also help maybe in finding fault-lines in hindering their cooperation.
      -[X] Construction x3 (5900 GBP = 1300 GBP + 1950 GBP + 2650 GBP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 1st (1300 GBP)
      ---[X] 13x Manufactories (100 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 2nd (1950 GBP)
      ---[X] 14x Manufactories (100 BP, 50 CP)
      ---[X] Underground Magnetic Catapult launch system (550/3000 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 3rd (2650 GBP) (50/50 of non-noticable surface installations)
      ---[X] Underground Magnetic Catapult launch system (3000/3000 BP, 50 CP) 2450 BP
      ---[X] 8x Basic Stealth Fighters (25 BP, 5 CP) (8/25 for global anti-ICBM coverage when needed, currently stored in spaceports)
      -[X] Research x1 (200 RP)
      --[X] Research slot, 1st
      ---[X] Blueprint: 50 RP - Basic Stealth Fighters (25 BP, 5 CP)
      ---[X] Machine spirit jamming (150 RP)
      -[X] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 45 -> 20)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] Additional Votes
      --[X] Educate (if Victan becomes available, apply here in helping to conceal your education to the Acolytes if game-mechanics-legal)
      --[X] Now (Write-in): Tell Anexa that you've found a warp-based cognitohazard. Limit the information to the basics of the nature of the Chaos, and the rough warning signs. Also tell her about your plans for the miniaturized shielding, as well as potentially a modification to her brain augmentation implant, mimicking the general function of what you've done to yourself. One might be enough, but both would likely be safer. Though if she doesn't want the implant-modification (if it works at all), you understand. It would likely be pretty invasive. You are planning to tell the specifics later, hopefully after figuring out how to shield her from the worst of the danger in some way. But even if those mitigation measures don't pan out perfectly, tell that you are still committing to revealing the full truth of what you know later anyway. Because you trust that she can navigate the dangers involved, and also because you might end up needing help if your shielding fails.
      --[X] Yes (Write-in): Let Victan first know about your slow efforts at subverting small numbers of acolytes in the Enclaves, and introduce Anexa. Then a bit later on, tell him what you have managed to put together what happened since your accident. Touch on the topic of Chaos very lightly, even less than you did with Anexa. Just that something has had an observable effect on the a type of shielding on your ship which had gone out of general use, and is a cognitohazard... Especially dangerous to you. And then reveal why that matters in this context, and why you need Aevon as allies. Admit that your mere existence endangers their world due to how the Mechanicus sees you. Tell him the truth about you being an AI, and how you would very much like to have a safe port in a galaxy that is very hostile to beings like you. Then tell him why you want the people of Aevon as your allies. Because way back then, when Victan was first assigned as your contact? You weren't lying about his people reminding you of those from your past, those who are nowdays called the Ancients. Finally, show him what you are building and designing to take out the kill-sats and nukes. Admit that the more you interact with the Enclaves of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the less hope you hold for a peaceful solution for Aevon with them. Even without revealing your existence as an AI or disguised as an "Ancient", they will desperately cling to their monopoly over technology. So regardless if you want to force them to the negotiation table or break their presence on the planet, you have to be able to nullify their WMDs first. And if he wants to help you in saving his planet and his people by trying to subvert what you both can in the Mechanicus, the offer remains open.
      [X] Shields Up and Prepare the Fighters
      [X] Plan Hoping for the Best, Preparing for the Worst.
      -[X] Research (200 RP)
      --[X] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
      --[X] Improved Stealth Fighters (100 RP)
      -[X] Construction Act 1 (1300 BP)
      --[X] Manufactory x13 (1300 BP, 650 CP)
      -[X] Construction Act 2 (1950 BP)
      --[X] Manufactory x8 (800 BP, 400 CP)
      --[X] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed x2 (400 BP, 10 CP)
      --[X] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (750/2000 BP)
      -[X] Construction Act 3 (2350 BP)
      --[X] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (750 +1250/2000 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed x3 (600 BP, 15 CP)
      --[X] Improved Stealth Fighter x?? (500 BP, ?? CP)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] Promote acolytes
      -[X] Anexa Explanation: We tell her how dangerous Chaos is, but also that we have countermeasures that seem to be sufficient for now. We think we understand how the men of iron were subverted and are confident that we can avoid the same fate, and that she's not in too much danger - but, never the less, we urge caution on this matter, and would like to keep her inside our shielding as much as possible and urge her to avoid the subject until we have better countermeasures.
      -[X] Victan Yes: We bring him on board and tell him his job is to help us coordinate with the Aevon government and deceive the mechanicus, and not to pry into our secrets. If he does well at this, we can consider recruiting him to our crew more permanently.
      [X] Plan: Build Factories Today, Stealth Fighters Tommorrow
      -[X] Free: Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[X] Now that we know about the death satellites and Enclave on the inactive space station; we could re-examine the data on the Enclaves. Do the leadership have any shared connections? Is there deleted files or omissions suggesting they visited the space station recently? Combined with Observatory data, can we estimate the number of shuttles they have?
      -[X] Construction 1st (1,300 BP)
      --[X] 13x Manufactories (-1300 BP)
      -[X] Construction 2nd (1,950 BP)
      --[X] 12x Manufactories (-1200 BP)
      --[X] 1x Underground Magnetic Catapult (-750 (of -3000) BP)
      -[X] Research x2 (400 RP)
      --[X] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
      --[x] Basic Active Stealth (150 RP)
      --[X] Improved Psychic shielding: (-150 (of -500) RP)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] How do you treat your new acolytes among the Mechanicus?
      --[X] Educate
      -[X] Do you tell Anexa about Chaos?
      --[X] Now/Not Yet. Let her know that a memetic hazard exists and is the reason for much of the AdMech's paranoia, though many of their efforts at dealing with it are limited or even counter-productive. Do not mention the Warp, and refuse to confirm or deny any theories/guesses she has. Inform her that you have a weak protection that you will seek to improve. Absolutely refuse to share any details until it can be done safely, suggest that she work on mental disipline / meditation.
      -[X] Do you take on Victan?
      --[X] Yes. Admit to having significant secrets, and seeking them out would be seen as a betrayal. Promise to reveal the truth before leaving the planet, so he can chose to stay or go with full awareness.
      --[X] Victan Passive Action.
      [X] Shields Up and Prepare the Fighters
      -[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[X] You believe its yet again time for diving into the distinctly non-wonderful world of the faith of the Priesthood of Mars. This time, you are looking into its various internal sects. What are their goals and means, basically always being some form of technology they specialize in. Their philosophical and theological outlooks into technology as well as knowledge. The amount of political (and so almost always also military) power they wield. Maybe most importantly, what and who can be declared Heretek, and for what reason. Because if you are going to be sneaking in education to the acolytes of the Enclaves, you need to understand how to conceal them better in to the byzantine labyrinth that is the Mechanicus. Should also help maybe in finding fault-lines in hindering their cooperation.
      -[X] Build 1 (1300 BP): 12 Manufactories (1200 BP), 1 Concealed Shield Generator (100 BP)
      -[X] Build 2 (1900 BP): 1 Concealed Void Shield Generator (1900 BP)
      -[X] Research (200 RP)
      —[X] Basic Stealth Fighters (50 RP)
      —[X] Basic Stealth Bombers (75 RP)
      —[X] Basic Stealth Troop Transports (75 RP)
      -[X] Diplomacy: Directly try to reach out to the acolytes that have gotten our message and do our best to subvert them and that the Magos don't catch wind of this (assign Victan and Anexa to assist if applicable)
      -[X] Anexa: if she can't help with subversion, resume her studies
      -[X][ACOLYTE] Subvert
      -[X][KAYOS] Now
      --[X] Right, the cognitohazard we were looking into--apparently something changed between the time when I got stuck in a space rock and now, because there is now a potent, Warp derived force that seems to delight in driving things to the ground for some reason. While it's not responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong, the study was quite informative about how the existence of such forces could be particularly effective against synthetic intelligences that aren't properly shielded or experienced enough to discard bad data that looks too good to be true. If I'm speaking in generalities here instead of getting down to brass tacks, it's because I have confirmed that thinking too hard about the details can, in fact, invite probes from the immaterial end. My shielding's been sufficient to deflect those probes and that was with me taking extensive measures to minimize how much thinking about the topic I've actually been doing, but I'd appreciate it if you'd be willing to be patient about the fine details beyond that until I've figured out how to shrink those shields down to a level people can wear. Especially since there's a lot of other projects right now that are a bit more pressing.
      -[X][VICTAN] Yes
      --[X] You've been a bit antsy about the topic, but you've been working together for a while now, and W is rightin how you need to coordinate properly on the matter. Victan having a ticket off world should the worst happen is not a problem whatsoever, and is unconditional, but... Okay, fine! You'll trust them! Give the option of coming to meet you at your ship, with the understanding that while your secrets aren't really bad, they are... Awkward to deal with, you'd like to hope you've built up enough cachet by now that they'll be willing to hear you out and understand why you play these cards close to your chest. Victan especially, but W's entitled to know as well if she wants to, with the understanding that you would very muchprefer that she keeps this under her hat for a while. Our caution on this topic boils down to the fact that--as far as we know--we're the last living being who remembers what Humanity was back in the glory days, where there was freedom to command our own fate, and none of this hiding or nonsense. I believe in you all--especially since you've started sharing what I gave to you with the other nations here. That's the echo of what humans were that I love so much, and hope to see happen again. Hand in hand, against the black, pushing it away bit by bit. (It's a bit flowery, but basically, they've got the option of accepting a Full Disclosure, with the understanding that it's somewhat awkward to deal with rather than bad or anything. Whether they take the option or not is up to them, but choice is important.)
      [x] Plan: Manchurian Candidate
      -[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[x] Admech internal politics. What are the factions, who is in charge of the other enclaves, who is looking to depose the current leaders, what are the personal projects they have going, how and why hereteks get declared. All of this with an eye towards subverting them.
      -[x] Diplomacy/Subversion: Talk to all three of the enclaves. We want our students recognized and elevated (cover story: 'predictably, the isolated magos is throwing around bribes to try and build a powerbase') and subvertible elements near or in leadership roles identified, so we can effect a transition of power with minimal bloodshed.
      -[X] Build 1 (1300 BP): 12 Manufactories (1200 BP), 1 Concealed Medium Void Shield Generator (100 BP)
      -[X] Build 2 (1900 BP): 1 Concealed Medium Void Shield Generator (1900 BP)
      -[X] Research (200 RP)
      --[x] Basic Active Stealth (150 RP)
      --[x] Basic Stealth Fighters (50 RP)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] Anexa Explanation: We tell her how dangerous Chaos is, but also that we have countermeasures that seem to be sufficient for now. We think we understand how the men of iron were subverted and are confident that we can avoid the same fate, and that she's not in too much danger - but, never the less, we urge caution on this matter, and would like to keep her inside our shielding as much as possible and urge her to avoid the subject until we have better countermeasures.
      -[X] Victan Yes: We bring him on board and tell him his job is to help us coordinate with the Aevon government and deceive the mechanicus, and not to pry into our secrets. If he does well at this, we can consider recruiting him to our crew more permanently.
      [X] Plan: Mag-Rail To Heavens w/ Stealth Missiles
      -[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[X] You believe its yet again time for diving into the distinctly non-wonderful world of the faith of the Priesthood of Mars. This time, you are looking into its various internal sects. What are their goals and means, basically always being some form of technology they specialize in. Their philosophical and theological outlooks into technology as well as knowledge. The amount of political (and so almost always also military) power they wield. Maybe most importantly, what and who can be declared Heretek, and for what reason. Because if you are going to be sneaking in education to the acolytes of the Enclaves, you need to understand how to conceal them better in to the byzantine labyrinth that is the Mechanicus. Should also help maybe in finding fault-lines in hindering their cooperation.
      -[X] Construction x3 (5600 GBP = 1300 GBP + 1950 GBP + 2350 GBP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 1st (1300 GBP)
      ---[X] 13x Manufactories (100 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 2nd (1950 GBP)
      ---[X] 8x Manufactories (100 BP, 50 CP)
      ---[X] Underground Magnetic Catapult launch system (1150/3000 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Construction slot, 3rd (2350 GBP) (50/50 of non-noticable surface installations)
      ---[X] Underground Magnetic Catapult launch system (3000/3000 BP, 50 CP) 1850 BP
      ---[X] 50x Advanced Stealth Missiles (10 BP, 1 CP) (500 BP)
      -[X] Research x1 (200 RP)
      --[X] Research slot, 1st
      ---[X] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
      ---[X] Blueprint - Advanced Stealth Missiles (10 BP, 1 CP) (100 RP)
      -[X] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 45 -> 20)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] Additional Votes
      --[X] Educate (if Victan becomes available, apply here in helping to conceal your education to the Acolytes if game-mechanics-legal)
      --[X] Now (Write-in): Tell Anexa that you've found a warp-based cognitohazard. Limit the information to the basics of the nature of the Chaos, and the rough warning signs. Also tell her about your plans for the miniaturized shielding, as well as potentially a modification to her brain augmentation implant, mimicking the general function of what you've done to yourself. One might be enough, but both would likely be safer. Though if she doesn't want the implant-modification (if it works at all), you understand. It would likely be pretty invasive. You are planning to tell the specifics later, hopefully after figuring out how to shield her from the worst of the danger in some way. But even if those mitigation measures don't pan out perfectly, tell that you are still committing to revealing the full truth of what you know later anyway. Because you trust that she can navigate the dangers involved, and also because you might end up needing help if your shielding fails.
      --[X] Yes (Write-in): Let Victan first know about your slow efforts at subverting small numbers of acolytes in the Enclaves, and introduce Anexa. Then a bit later on, tell him what you have managed to put together what happened since your accident. Touch on the topic of Chaos very lightly, even less than you did with Anexa. Just that something has had an observable effect on the a type of shielding on your ship which had gone out of general use, and is a cognitohazard... Especially dangerous to you. And then reveal why that matters in this context, and why you need Aevon as allies. Admit that your mere existence endangers their world due to how the Mechanicus sees you. Tell him the truth about you being an AI, and how you would very much like to have a safe port in a galaxy that is very hostile to beings like you. Then tell him why you want the people of Aevon as your allies. Because way back then, when Victan was first assigned as your contact? You weren't lying about his people reminding you of those from your past, those who are nowdays called the Ancients. Finally, show him what you are building and designing to take out the kill-sats and nukes. Admit that the more you interact with the Enclaves of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the less hope you hold for a peaceful solution for Aevon with them. Even without revealing your existence as an AI or disguised as an "Ancient", they will desperately cling to their monopoly over technology. So regardless if you want to force them to the negotiation table or break their presence on the planet, you have to be able to nullify their WMDs first. And if he wants to help you in saving his planet and his people by trying to subvert what you both can in the Mechanicus, the offer remains open.
      [X] Plan Hoping for the Best, Preparing for the Worst w/ Education
      -[X] Research (200 RP)
      --[X] Improved Passive Stealth (100 RP)
      --[X] Improved Stealth Fighters (100 RP)
      -[X] Construction Act 1 (1300 BP)
      --[X] Manufactory x13 (1300 BP, 650 CP)
      -[X] Construction Act 2 (1950 BP)
      --[X] Manufactory x8 (800 BP, 400 CP)
      --[X] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed x2 (400 BP, 10 CP)
      --[X] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (750/2000 BP)
      -[X] Construction Act 3 (2350 BP)
      --[X] Medium Void-shield Installation, concealed (750 +1250/2000 BP, 50 CP)
      --[X] Anti-Orbital Defenses, concealed x3 (600 BP, 15 CP)
      --[X] Improved Stealth Fighter x?? (500 BP, ?? CP)
      -[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is 10+5xLevel
      -[X] Educate acolytes
      -[X] Anexa Explanation: We tell her how dangerous Chaos is, but also that we have countermeasures that seem to be sufficient for now. We think we understand how the men of iron were subverted and are confident that we can avoid the same fate, and that she's not in too much danger - but, never the less, we urge caution on this matter, and would like to keep her inside our shielding as much as possible and urge her to avoid the subject until we have better countermeasures.
      -[X] Victan Yes: We bring him on board and tell him his job is to help us coordinate with the Aevon government and deceive the mechanicus, and not to pry into our secrets. If he does well at this, we can consider recruiting him to our crew more permanently.
    Click to expand...
     
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    • So, I just realized - the 40k intro says that the emperor is the master of mankind... by 'the will of the gods', amongst other things. But - which gods? The only gods notably present in 40k are the chaos gods.

    I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it struck me as strange. Was the intro originally supposed to suggest that the chaos gods want to keep the emperor in place for their own ends? :/
     
    Originally? Originally the chaos gods were amoral instead of evil. Which is where we get the 'all human emotions feed the chaos gods' bit, and that got retained even as the push towards making the chaos gods entirely evil destroyed the logical basis of it.

    So I think yes.

    I have also heard the emperor called the fifth chaos god in the older stuff.
     
    I think that its mostly just that he (the Emperor) is keeping the Imperium standing, meaning that the nightmare that is the Imperium (and therefor the parasite's food supply) will never end. So Big E is kinda letting the Chaos God's survive because they certainly don't have the self restraint to make a self sustaining food (soul) supply when it's just the 4 of them.
     
    Angle said:
    So, I just realized - the 40k intro says that the emperor is the master of mankind... by 'the will of the gods', amongst other things. But - which gods? The only gods notably present in 40k are the chaos gods.

    I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it struck me as strange. Was the intro originally supposed to suggest that the chaos gods want to keep the emperor in place for their own ends? :/
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Well, from a certain point of view, Chaos needs an opposition like the Imperium or it might possibly cease to exist. Although many of the adaptations and evolutions of Imperial Society are/were intended or arose through selective pressure to combat Chaotic influence, it's hard to argue that as an end-product there would be many other configurations of a state that could possibly be more repressive, despotic, stagnant, neglectful, warmongering and genocidal than the Imperium has ended up being.

    In being so, the Imperium ironically is a nigh perfect breeding ground for ever more Chaos, simply because life or even chance of survival is so bad for so many people that they see little other option than the Ruinous Powers to improve their lives or even see another day with their loved ones.

    It's telling that eternal slavery and damnation to the whims of uncaring Lovecraftian horror-devils who prey on and perpetuate the worst of reality and life, who demand ever more atrocities, irrespective of innocence or reason, ever more absolute defilement of one's self and everyone and everything one once held dear - even taking into account that people often are at first ignorant of the true extent of the evil they are joining and spreading or the totality of themselves and everything and everyone they know they would be sacrificing (including whatever reasons likely initially compelled them to seek Chaos in the first place), only realising the extent of their mistake, if they ever do, once they've been cognitively corrupted and twisted beyond recognition - that Chaos still finds not only desperate followers but willing eager acolytes, amongst those who if taught nothing else by bitter collective experience and zealous official properganda are taught to fear, distrust and hate the Archenemy, repeatly and uninterrupted, for millennia.

    Consorting with Chaos never ends well, yet time and time again people turn to it, because their alternatives, the material reality the Imperium in no small part presents them with, are so terrible (at least from their individual and communal material perspectives, unaware of the more eschatological risks Chaos poses to themselves and reality).

    Now, one can also argue that this is a biased perspective of the Chaos gods (assuming they are the primary or only gods referred to by the intro), who don't have all the power to manipulate the situation, but it's hard to argue they haven't benefited immensely from the Imperium as it came to be (and perhaps moreso what it failed to be) both under the Emperor guidance and in the intermittent ten millennia since his internment on the Golden Throne.
     
    Last edited:
    Alright, been a lot going on. But let's get some rolls! All d100s please, one per person!
    Roll 1: Machine spirit jamming, +20 modifier.
    Roll 2: Anexa Chaos conversation, +10 roll.
    Roll 3: Anexa Education, flat roll.
    Roll 4: Victan conversation, +10 roll.
    Roll 5: Mechanicus Education (+10, +5 if Victan roll is good enough)

    And of course I'll roll another dice, though you can probably guess what it's for after last turn. It might have a modifier, it might not, but that's for me to know.
    Neablis threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Aevon-Mechanicus subterfuge Total: 63
    63 63
     
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