We know they have presence both one warp jump away (where we got attacked by them) and further in this general direction, but I don't think we have evidence of them coming to this particular star.
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Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
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Good to know, and actually while on the subject...
Do we know anything about the generalities of how they get around? And the craftworlders as well, for that matter. They both use the webway, which includes physical gates already placed in the materium and are irreplaceable, but I think canonically they may also have some ability to create temporary gates in and out of the webway where there isn't an actual physical gate to use?
And in either case the webway is a maze with at best a loose correspondence to reality, so it's entirely possible no living Eldar knows how to get here despite it being right next door to places they frequent.
- Location
- Boston
Has Neablis confirmed that? I know the Human Simulation Implants are likely worth one, but I can't recall the other.
I'm not aware of a confirmation, but the obvious other would be the FTL suite - warp abacus production (which we don't actually have, but we certainly need when we go back), improved gellar fields, all that.
- Location
- Boston
Didn't we already give them the void abacus knowledge? I know that doesn't include manufacturing, but the building of the device seems like a much smaller step.
I'd be hesitant to assume the boons we are getting until we get back and see their research roll.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Ok so primary thought if we get warp comms we can then send a fleet of factory ships to Vorthrin with our tech-priests while vita keeps exploring we get mothball so that they can keep expanding past their CP cap we also need more AI because that would be the best way to get more CP cap in general.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
IIRC, we specifically *didn't* give them any FTL tech.
Pretty sure our tech handover explicitly excluded all the warp tech.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Also just as a reminder regarding the math for building up heavy cruisers with max out size and weapons is at the moment around 12,500BP ignoreing hull equipment, shields, armour and engines so that would be 125 MS deep space manufacturies at minimum which with half price costs 56,250BP, 1,875CP to build a heavy cruiser a turn on top of that the best CP shipyard is the heavy shipyard which costs 10,000BP, 250CP for 64 construction space
- Location
- Boston
Even with lift capacity it would be cheaper to build 250 ground factories to get there. It would cost 30,000 BP and take up 5,000 CP with current tech. Even cheaper if we build up in Denva Primus.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I was on the fence about it yesterday, but I've pretty much come around to wanting to go right back to Denva next turn, as per my expected action layout from earlier: 1 research and 2 construction together to get the stopgap humanitarian effort rolling, and 1 travel-to-denva.
Turning every single psy shield they have into a warp sensor to go with our new regular sensor tech will probably do it.
See also the FTL travel suite.
Also leaving behind a warp lab after we're done with it.
And if we dont skimp, handing them this system and its fixer upper industry to them with a nice bow tied to it.
So I'm confident we can use most of our techpriests on manning the humanitarian effort and lose 0 RP. Vita crash builds much faster than Denver can, so they may just let her take over more of their industry if we use a diplomacy action on it, above and beyond what the permanent manufacturing boom might otherwise do.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
...What do you expect to build with two construction actions? Like, is that supposed to be for the automated ship? I can't think of anything we could build for two construction actions that would be worthwhile here.
I don't see what you're getting for that research action, either.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
True the only challenge we'd face with building in Denva is keeping morons from pressureing our Preists into wasting production time if we're not there.
- Location
- Boston
I'm still on the fence myself, but if we do want to return next turn we should grab production enhancement research. Specifically superconductors and MS production enhancement, which would help our ramping considerably.
Depending on what we need to do here we might also consider returning to denva as action 3 and then action 4 as a diplomatic to get basing rights on Primus. That way we can start the following turn knowing if there is a cost to the build up there.
Also, @Neablis upon our return to Denva would it be a free action to claim the boons they are working on or would it be a diplomatic action to coordinate that?
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Well, one thing two construction actions could do is leave them with their own production capacity...
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
We're likely to get those for free though once we get back to Denva - we told them to research industry techs.
Leave who with their own production capacity? The natives can't run that. Are we leaving tech priests behind? And if so, with what defenses? Without defenses, they're sitting ducks.
Furthermore, what do you actually expect them to produce with that? They can get one station fixed up... with two actions. And it would take well over a hundred stations fixed that way to cover everyone in the system. I dunno, it seems like a huge waste, when again, we could use those actions to be putting together a proper relief fleet in Denva.
I think @Prime 2.0 was pretty clear on doing that? It's not my plan. I'm the one who keeps saying I don't actually think these people are in an acute crisis.
Having production means they're not helpless - they can make more killbots, make Caltrop platforms, make spare parts, whatever. I agree that it is likely not be enough to actually make a difference to the system, but I would really not want to leave techpriests without the means to reenforce themselves!
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Yeah I definitely don't want to leave tech priests behind. That's just asking for them to get killed. There are 8 million people in this system, I'm skeptical that the tech priests could accomplish anything significant against those numbers - and that's not what they signed up for anyway.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
My expected research takes are Remote OMC and Mechanized Agriculture, for remote operation of stuff (particularly shuttles and bots delivering aid), and for producing shitloads of food to pass out, respectively. We may be able to fit some advanced sensors on to the imperial ship using the repair bay, failing everything else, for assisting in early detection of travelers our techpriests may need to lay low around until they're gone.
Construction is up in the air, given the hopes that we can leverage our repair bay's slack to get more BP by doing it to the ship. But the general goals are "at least one factory, and whatever building mechanized agriculture gets us, in whatever form is most practical". We don't have numbers for mechanized agriculture production yet though, so it's hard to math out what we can get, but given the research price for doing it I expect it to be able to do a lot.
I don't speak for Aineko, but for me it's food production, telepresence stuff, and targeted replacement parts for stations that agree to it.
The stopgap would be a mix of using the ship to consolidating the populations from dangerously failing stations onto stations stabilized with those parts (if not the ship itself, which can function as slack housing to even out refugee surges), while producing enough food to keep everyone alive until Denva arrives a few turns later.
Read this post and come back. We are well prepared to let stealth be their main defense, particularly with remote OMC.
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Well, we'll need to see the details when the chapter hits, but those rolls make it look like we've got physical control of the ship and got the humans aboard at least somewhat in-line. At that point I could see it developing so that leaving a representative is a really good fit for circumstances...
Pretty sure that got shot down.
I think I was going on this, which is actually a bit confusing on review, I think there might be a missing negative?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
...Alright, well, at least that was mostly just a "nice to have" since I'm pretty sure we can have the techpriests produce and distribute aid basically while concealing where they actually are even from anyone who actually comes into the system unnoticed. Space is big, our stealth is acceptable, and Victan is very good at his job.
EDIT: Oh, you read the same thing I did. Yeah, still don't know if we can refit the ship with repair bay BP then.
- Location
- Boston
Perhaps?
I think those two might be a bit outside their wheelhouse, but i guess it doesn't really hurt to wait until we get back.
In that case what assuming 2 research actions (500 RP) before we return what would you get?
I believe that you just ignored the whole 'that's not what they signed up for anyway.' part of that argument.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
We don't remotely have the BP to build that out for 8 million people here, though. Like, not even close. We have 350 BP, we'd need like 100,000. It's completely insane.
Our shuttles and the void manufactories might be stealthed, but the locals aren't. And where are you leaving the tech priests? on the automated ship? That's not stealthed either. I don't think you can rely on stealth here, not without us in the system at all to prevent intruders from just camping and searching. And the DSM doesn't have any living space on it, so you can't put the tech priests there. And again, this is all for a drop in the bucket in this systems population anyway.
Also, our stealth is okay, but honestly it's only the first level, it's far from unbeatable. I fully expect Druhkari to blow through it in like 5 seconds, they're way better at stealth than we are. Corsairs and craftworld eldar too. Orks, also, can be surprisingly sneaky and perceptive sometimes? Necrons vary wildly, but there's a distinct possibility. Hell, even dogmatic imperials might be able to manage it, depending on their loadout.
Alternative Shielding Meanings, Empathy at Range, MS Chaos Resistance, and MS CPS. Work towards warp comms, get better psychic shields to stay ahead of bongo and work towards being able to do demology later, and see if there's anything good locked behind MS CPS. Easy.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Here is a post where Neablis suggests we could leave the techpriests behind for 50 years. Evidently, finding volunteers isn't going to be an issue.
There'll probably be a roll for how many volunteers there will be. This is fine imo.
700 BP + slack from the repair bay, recall that I provisioned two construction actions, and you don't know that, those numbers on how much we'd need to provide enough food to end the famine is completely made up. Neither of us have numbers on what mechanized agriculture will do yet.
Moreover, we would not be providing food for 8 million people - they already HAVE food, just not ENOUGH food. Vita already has tech that can make food to go with a city - what she doesn't have is "factory that shits out massive amounts of food", and that's what we'd be spending 150 RP on getting:
Neither of us have numbers for this, seriously, stop making them up from thin air! I have been saying "let's do fact finding about this" for a reason and you're still pushing back against that for no reason I can discern.
@Neablis , could you give us some ballparks on BP/Population fed? Or even BP/Population removed from famine conditions, given the above proviso.
I already answered this.
And I answer the part about what to do about the ship later in that same paragraph. I will rephrase what I said, for your convenience, since you somehow guessed I was going to have them live on the ship even though I proposed having them never "be on the ship themselves, ever".
Seriously. Think more about our options than how to argue with me, please.
Anyways, the ship's place in this scheme is to stay on its existing circuit like nothing changed (save for the chaos stations not existing anymore), and just have dead drops of relief supplies be put at random places along its route, delivered from the stealth manufactory by stealth shuttles. Bots inside the ship controlled by remote OMC pick them up, and later distribute the aid to the stations - bots which can be humanized, to even further reduce what can be learned from, say, a visitor asking station natives for information.
To prying eyes, it will look like nothing has changed - there will be no obvious place to look to catch the dead drops in action, and without seeing those no way to even attempt to trace it back to the factory, and even if the shuttle IS seen it can just be told not to return to base, the factory can make another. Our detachment could be completely caught by surprise, and still be more likely than not to remain undetected.
But of course, if the ship is given our new sensors using the repair bay, our techpriests will almost certainly see those prying eyes first, letting them temporarily halt even those clandestine operations. Our last gen sensors were enough to see the stealthed corsairs enter the system from the other side of it.
If even that fails the remotely operated shuttle (or just pre-programmed) start being traced back, the techpriests can take others from the as yet unfound manufactory to go further to ground.
The number of things that would have to go wrong for them to be killed is, well, insane. To assume it will happen in 3 turns? Nonsense.
So yes, we can, in fact, use stealth as their main defense. All doable with one research, two construction, and the last action to get back to denva.
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