- Location
- Boston
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Fair enough but I do think we should take a turn sometime to just knock into a bunch of the cheap foundational tech we have and see what we can find. I do want to suggest the addition of Better Sensors are just Physics and/or
EDIT: Missed a requirement, thanks Angle.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Well the Druhkari craft requires a tech lab we don't have, and that it would be really inconvenient to build, so I'd leave it till after we get back to Denva. Better Sensors, not next turn but I'll pencil them in as a maybe for the turn after that.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yes we can get a Tech discounted to 0, but only non-Foundational Techs and we are still mostly in the Foundational Tech part of research.
Edit:
Scrapcode Immunity is still on the table people.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Quest master has previously said no to that, so I think you need a citation.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Neablis has yet to update the available research post so it's still up in the air if we can research it later or not.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I'm pretty sure the description changed? So I think Dmol is on to something.
Edit: Nope, I checked, I was wrong.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I check the last edited mark at the bottom of both the available research post and the last turn and saw that the research post hasn't been updated sine Thursday while the rolls where done yesterday and looking at the Scrapcode Immunity entries side by side shows that there are no differences between them so no it's still not decided yet.
Ok well if that's the case and it doesn't increase much in price I think it goes on the list of thing to do next turn. If we get immune and learn to make it scrapcode seems like it could be a kind of magic wand for most hacking. Not to mention the potential links to psychic MS and the like.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Nope I was wrong. False alarm. Might still show up as an option? But we don't know yet, and won't for a while yet.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
I know you're pain I too wanted walkers hell I even had the great idea of setting Denva on researching them.I'm just sad that there's no justification I can think of to research building mechs
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yeah my bad on the whole Scrapcode Immunity thing. Sorry about that false alarm. It's been a wild morning already here in my apartment and my sense of how time works is just fucked right now.
I don't have the mental strength right now, but basically the answer is no on foundational research because even if we have all the knowledge about it we still need to test it.
The further we go from the foundational research the more likely a research is to be discounted towards zero, but it is also more likely to be a lot more expensive. Psychic Tripwires are 25 RP at this point, but whether that Research can actually hit zero if we don't research it is a big old question mark.
Something further along the tech tree though? Doable, but not likely to happen. You're going to have to go dig for the info as @Neablis keeps answering the question for foundational tech and not the more advanced stuff since we still haven't actually moved away from foundational techs on the count of the voter base wanting to have as much basic tech as we can before deciding to focus on specific stuff.
I don't have the mental strength right now, but basically the answer is no on foundational research because even if we have all the knowledge about it we still need to test it.
The further we go from the foundational research the more likely a research is to be discounted towards zero, but it is also more likely to be a lot more expensive. Psychic Tripwires are 25 RP at this point, but whether that Research can actually hit zero if we don't research it is a big old question mark.
Something further along the tech tree though? Doable, but not likely to happen. You're going to have to go dig for the info as @Neablis keeps answering the question for foundational tech and not the more advanced stuff since we still haven't actually moved away from foundational techs on the count of the voter base wanting to have as much basic tech as we can before deciding to focus on specific stuff.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
That's the cheapest we've ever seen a tech get. Before that, nothings ever dropped below 50. So, I don't think most things will get much cheaper.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Thinking about AI reasearch I think we do one action on it and then the turn after we put Anexa on it and smash it and personality checking routine out in a single go because remember we might be unlocking a MS RP boost research this turn which I want done immediately.
- Location
- Earth
Your turn after-spoiler has 1425RP to spend.
We literally can not spend that much per turn even with 4x research. That'd only be 912RP and not something I'll ever vote for anyway.
I believe that with everything and 3x research we have 712 RP at the moment. And while you are correct that the entire thing would be far to much in cost. I believe the number of question marks is supposed to show the likelihood of choosing the option.
Additionally the first nine synergize well and will likely provide large discounts to each other. And most of the remaining stuff also might get a discount or two. Now I'm not saying the full list should be done, but with discounts it seems plausible to do much of it. Besides, anything not done can just wait a turn. I believe the turn-after list was more of a shortlist to make planning quicker and less of a direct plan.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Exactly so, yep. There are a few thing without question marks which I'm pretty set on, but the rest is pretty flexible.
- Location
- Earth
We have 712RP, if we do 3 research actions.
512RP, if we do 2 research actions.
We have just moved into a new system and only rolled so-so on our exploration. We may very well spend 2 actions on other stuff than research. (any 2 of Diplomacy, exploration, making stuff for trade)
I am a fan of the sensor-techs. Because we are explorers and better sensors won't ever go amiss.
-[] Basic Active Stealth (22 -> 75 RP) Just deflecting away and hiding your signature only helps so much. Then next step is to overlay a hologram over your small craft to make them effectively invisible, and even counter passive sensors. It'll still be a hazy outline, but this is the path towards being able to close to actual combat ranges unobserved (Unlocks improved stealth designs for actively hiding signatures, though they will be expensive. Unlocks further research for improved active stealth, and will synergize with other stealth research.
-[] Better Sensors are just Physics (200 RP) You've made some progress on better sensors, but if you're really going to go to the next level you're going to start looking for edge cases. Things that are hard or downright impossible to hide, and will give away an enemy ship no matter its stealth. (Unlocks better basal sensors across the board, as well as improves specific stealth technologies. Synergizes with stealth research, unlocks even better sensors and may unlock long-range sensors to do detailed scans from across the system). Requires Basic Spaceship Stealth & Basic Active Stealth.
-[] Empathy at Range (200 RP) Your warp sensors work well on things that are nearby, but they're definitely not able to detect anything large beyond combat range, or smaller things beyond very close range. Maybe it's a matter of improving sensitivity, maybe you need to specifically build some parts of your psychic shield to extend range. (Makes your warp sensors active at longer range, unlocks further research to pinpoint psychic activities from across the solar system. Half of the prereq for basic warp-based FTL communication)
-[] Better Sensors are just Physics (200 RP) You've made some progress on better sensors, but if you're really going to go to the next level you're going to start looking for edge cases. Things that are hard or downright impossible to hide, and will give away an enemy ship no matter its stealth. (Unlocks better basal sensors across the board, as well as improves specific stealth technologies. Synergizes with stealth research, unlocks even better sensors and may unlock long-range sensors to do detailed scans from across the system). Requires Basic Spaceship Stealth & Basic Active Stealth.
-[] Empathy at Range (200 RP) Your warp sensors work well on things that are nearby, but they're definitely not able to detect anything large beyond combat range, or smaller things beyond very close range. Maybe it's a matter of improving sensitivity, maybe you need to specifically build some parts of your psychic shield to extend range. (Makes your warp sensors active at longer range, unlocks further research to pinpoint psychic activities from across the solar system. Half of the prereq for basic warp-based FTL communication)
If people want to go picking cheap techs, here's the complete list of researches under 100RP:
-[] Medium Defense Platforms (50 RP) You've already got most of the tools you need to build bigger defensive platforms, but these would be a larger platform to stick guns on, with more ability to withstand damage. (Unlocks medium defensive platforms, potential for other void-based installation options)
-[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP) You dramatically improved the efficiency of your void manufacturing by stripping out the dumb stuff that was required by stellar federation bureaucracy. There's probably some stuff like that in your ground manufactories too. (Reduces the CP cost but not BP cost of your ground manufactories. Unlocks follow-on tech to build ground manufactories in more challenging conditions such as extreme temp/pressure planetoids).
-[] Mothballing (50 RP) Keeping a bunch of systems functional and ready requires attention that is swiftly running out. Maybe you can figure out how to spend less attention on things that are mostly inactive (Unlocks the ability to mothball an installation for 10% of it's build cost, free reactivation that takes a few weeks. May unlock techs to allow you to freely turn things on and off, as well as increasing the speed of reactivation enough for you to keep military installations mothballed until they're needed.)
-[] Basic Ground force stealth (50 RP) Tanks show up pretty well on scanners, and it would be nice to change that. You might also be able to make your bots hide better. (Unlocks new design options for tanks and ground forces that are less obvious. Unlocks further research towards better ground force stealth. Will be able to take advantage of some other stealth technologies.)
-[] Improved Passive Stealth (50 RP) Ok, you've figured out the basics of hiding your small craft, but you have ideas on what you can do better, that might allow them to hide from even fully-alert enemies. They probably won't be able to close all the way to attack range, but they'll be able to get a lot closer (Unlocks improved stealth designs with improved performance. Unlocks further research for advanced passive stealth technologies. Will synergize with other stealth research.)
-[] Basic Active Stealth (75 RP) Just deflecting away and hiding your signature only helps so much. Then next step is to overlay a hologram over your small craft to make them effectively invisible, and even counter passive sensors. It'll still be a hazy outline, but this is the path towards being able to close to actual combat ranges unobserved (Unlocks improved stealth designs for actively hiding signatures, though they will be expensive. Unlocks further research for improved active stealth, and will synergize with other stealth research.
-[] Improved Armor Articulation (50 RP) From your research on humanizing combat bots you have some ideas about improving the points of articulation on armor to increase the range of motion and make the suits more responsive. (Increased performance & mobility for heavier armor, both for combat bots & people wearing heavy armor you make. May unlock further armor upgrade techs)
-[] Psychic tripwires (25 RP) Standardizing the shielding has given you another idea - you could try to install a very basic version of it into all of your technology, just about the simplest thing that would still generate the desired effect. It wouldn't do much to hinder any warp-corruption of other psyker powers, but it could serve as an alarm or deadman switch setup. (Anything smaller than a ship has psychic tripwires that will alert when warp-based shenanigans happen to them. Will unlock research to use this on ships, and to make civilian-grade versions that could be put into literally everything).
-[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP) You think it's possible to integrate machine spirits into your chaos shielding, which would probably make it more effective in almost every way except cost. (Unlocks new kinds of psychic shielding that are more resistant to damage, potentially self-repairing and more) Requires Machine Spirit Chaos resistance.
-[] Faith is my shield? (75 RP) Clearly the Imperium believes that faith can protect you from warp gribblies. It even seems like it might be true. How? Is there a way you can harness the effect without having to dedicate yourself to the Imperial creed. (Understanding the benefits of Faith. May unlock further research to allow Vita to design a less objectionable faith optimized for warp protection, and help develop better psyker training programs.)
-[] Miniaturized antigrav (50 RP) You can make antigrav that reduces the weight of things like shuttles to make them able to make orbit. But there's a floor on how small you can make that technology. The Imperium seems to have solved that. (Unlocks drones, jump-packs etc, as well as additional research to make antigrav vehicles/walkers)
-[] Large-scale Machine spirits (75 RP) As it stands, you can integrate machine spirits into small things. Expanding that to military installations and ships is going to require designing even more complex networks and figuring out how to make them work. With Anexa's insights you think it's eminently possible thought (Unlocks machine-spirit equipped versions of frigate-sized or smaller ships and platforms, as well as most defensive installations. Unlocks more research for machine spirits for larger ships & platforms.)
-[] Servitorization (50 RP) You find it repulsive, but being able to replace somebody's brain with a computer that drives them around would have its uses. (Unlocks the ability to servitorize people in the medbay. Unlocks follow-on research to replicate their personality as well)
-[] Drugs? Drugs. (75 RP) Human biochemistry is... weird. You've got a standard list of recipies for basic drugs, but if you wanted to get further into it you could start pulling out some stranger and more illicit ones from your research databanks. (Unlocks a wide variety of drugs for things like interrogation, combat, sedation, etc. May lead to research for things like perfect knockout gas, super-adrenaline, psytech drugs, etc.)
-[] Dubious Dark Eldar Dissections (75 RP) You've got some corpses of Dark Eldar. Time to take them apart and see what you can learn! (Gives you some details on Dark Eldar physiology. May provide bonuses towards psyker genetics, or develop medical techniques, drugs or implants for Eldar)
-[] Combat Neural Implants (50 RP) Allows you to install neural implants to calculate trajectories, assist with aiming, further improve reaction time and generally improve human capabilities in combat. (Unlocks combat-focused neural implants. Will synergize with other cybernetics and neural implant technologies)
-[] Remote Organic-Machine control (50 RP) One of the current limitations of the OMC technology is that it requires the controller to be on-site. But if that wasn't true, then you could imagine truly bloodless wars, or operators living in comfortable cities while they controlled factories in orbit. Something to look into. (Allows OMC implants to control installations or units within the same system. Leads to further research for interoperable units, as well as making it possible for human staff to directly contribute to Vita's CP cap.)
-[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP) You dramatically improved the efficiency of your void manufacturing by stripping out the dumb stuff that was required by stellar federation bureaucracy. There's probably some stuff like that in your ground manufactories too. (Reduces the CP cost but not BP cost of your ground manufactories. Unlocks follow-on tech to build ground manufactories in more challenging conditions such as extreme temp/pressure planetoids).
-[] Mothballing (50 RP) Keeping a bunch of systems functional and ready requires attention that is swiftly running out. Maybe you can figure out how to spend less attention on things that are mostly inactive (Unlocks the ability to mothball an installation for 10% of it's build cost, free reactivation that takes a few weeks. May unlock techs to allow you to freely turn things on and off, as well as increasing the speed of reactivation enough for you to keep military installations mothballed until they're needed.)
-[] Basic Ground force stealth (50 RP) Tanks show up pretty well on scanners, and it would be nice to change that. You might also be able to make your bots hide better. (Unlocks new design options for tanks and ground forces that are less obvious. Unlocks further research towards better ground force stealth. Will be able to take advantage of some other stealth technologies.)
-[] Improved Passive Stealth (50 RP) Ok, you've figured out the basics of hiding your small craft, but you have ideas on what you can do better, that might allow them to hide from even fully-alert enemies. They probably won't be able to close all the way to attack range, but they'll be able to get a lot closer (Unlocks improved stealth designs with improved performance. Unlocks further research for advanced passive stealth technologies. Will synergize with other stealth research.)
-[] Basic Active Stealth (75 RP) Just deflecting away and hiding your signature only helps so much. Then next step is to overlay a hologram over your small craft to make them effectively invisible, and even counter passive sensors. It'll still be a hazy outline, but this is the path towards being able to close to actual combat ranges unobserved (Unlocks improved stealth designs for actively hiding signatures, though they will be expensive. Unlocks further research for improved active stealth, and will synergize with other stealth research.
-[] Improved Armor Articulation (50 RP) From your research on humanizing combat bots you have some ideas about improving the points of articulation on armor to increase the range of motion and make the suits more responsive. (Increased performance & mobility for heavier armor, both for combat bots & people wearing heavy armor you make. May unlock further armor upgrade techs)
-[] Psychic tripwires (25 RP) Standardizing the shielding has given you another idea - you could try to install a very basic version of it into all of your technology, just about the simplest thing that would still generate the desired effect. It wouldn't do much to hinder any warp-corruption of other psyker powers, but it could serve as an alarm or deadman switch setup. (Anything smaller than a ship has psychic tripwires that will alert when warp-based shenanigans happen to them. Will unlock research to use this on ships, and to make civilian-grade versions that could be put into literally everything).
-[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP) You think it's possible to integrate machine spirits into your chaos shielding, which would probably make it more effective in almost every way except cost. (Unlocks new kinds of psychic shielding that are more resistant to damage, potentially self-repairing and more) Requires Machine Spirit Chaos resistance.
-[] Faith is my shield? (75 RP) Clearly the Imperium believes that faith can protect you from warp gribblies. It even seems like it might be true. How? Is there a way you can harness the effect without having to dedicate yourself to the Imperial creed. (Understanding the benefits of Faith. May unlock further research to allow Vita to design a less objectionable faith optimized for warp protection, and help develop better psyker training programs.)
-[] Miniaturized antigrav (50 RP) You can make antigrav that reduces the weight of things like shuttles to make them able to make orbit. But there's a floor on how small you can make that technology. The Imperium seems to have solved that. (Unlocks drones, jump-packs etc, as well as additional research to make antigrav vehicles/walkers)
-[] Large-scale Machine spirits (75 RP) As it stands, you can integrate machine spirits into small things. Expanding that to military installations and ships is going to require designing even more complex networks and figuring out how to make them work. With Anexa's insights you think it's eminently possible thought (Unlocks machine-spirit equipped versions of frigate-sized or smaller ships and platforms, as well as most defensive installations. Unlocks more research for machine spirits for larger ships & platforms.)
-[] Servitorization (50 RP) You find it repulsive, but being able to replace somebody's brain with a computer that drives them around would have its uses. (Unlocks the ability to servitorize people in the medbay. Unlocks follow-on research to replicate their personality as well)
-[] Drugs? Drugs. (75 RP) Human biochemistry is... weird. You've got a standard list of recipies for basic drugs, but if you wanted to get further into it you could start pulling out some stranger and more illicit ones from your research databanks. (Unlocks a wide variety of drugs for things like interrogation, combat, sedation, etc. May lead to research for things like perfect knockout gas, super-adrenaline, psytech drugs, etc.)
-[] Dubious Dark Eldar Dissections (75 RP) You've got some corpses of Dark Eldar. Time to take them apart and see what you can learn! (Gives you some details on Dark Eldar physiology. May provide bonuses towards psyker genetics, or develop medical techniques, drugs or implants for Eldar)
-[] Combat Neural Implants (50 RP) Allows you to install neural implants to calculate trajectories, assist with aiming, further improve reaction time and generally improve human capabilities in combat. (Unlocks combat-focused neural implants. Will synergize with other cybernetics and neural implant technologies)
-[] Remote Organic-Machine control (50 RP) One of the current limitations of the OMC technology is that it requires the controller to be on-site. But if that wasn't true, then you could imagine truly bloodless wars, or operators living in comfortable cities while they controlled factories in orbit. Something to look into. (Allows OMC implants to control installations or units within the same system. Leads to further research for interoperable units, as well as making it possible for human staff to directly contribute to Vita's CP cap.)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There was no proviso on foundational research.
Evidently he's willing to bend the rule sometimes, since 25RP tripwires happened, but no, this is first and foremost an OOC concern, and that concern would apply regardless of if the research is foundational or not.
Look - if you uncertain about something, please be clear about that up front. And if you want to correct somebody else about it, refresh your memory first and come back with the citation you checked.
You've done this a lot - said things confidently and convincingly with lots of detail that you hadn't actually double checked, only to say "well I can't remember exactly" after it's been pointed out that's wrong. As a matter of etiquette and not misleading people, it would be better to match your rhetoric to how certain your information is in the first place.
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I theorize that part is not actually that rule bending so much as it is that rule really having been 'techs won't discount to free' and the 'everything is 50-point-increments' rule that was in place at that time being relaxed.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
Still, as much as I want to plan for the turn after, I say we should wait until the next turn is published before we make any plans. I'm worried how badly that nat 1 is going to hurt us. not to mention any discoveries we make while exploring, few as they are.
- Location
- Sydney,Australia
Honestly I think people are overreacting to the Nat 1 sure the last one hurt but outside of the tech priests and wasted diplomacy action we didn't lose much and this Nat 1 couldve landed in a worse place geller fields and MSD for example.
I think some people were worried that the Nat one would mean Bongo breaking free and wreaking havok. But the Nat 1 in a fail on research and as such Bongo at worst will likely cause a lot damage which we can just repair.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
The reason I worry about the nat 1 is the possibility of not being able to research Scapcode immunity like with emotional hacking machine spirits