FYI, voting probably closing in 4-5 hours.

I haven't explored all of the intricacies around the conversation going on about psychic shielding, but keep in mind that your shielding is very hard to manufacture, and also needs that same level of manufacturing to repair after it's damaged.

There are probably similar things scattered across the Imperium that can protect areas from the Warp, but most of them are broken and can't be repaired because nobody understands them or knows how to repair them. The very definition of archaeotech.
 
FYI, voting probably closing in 4-5 hours.

I haven't explored all of the intricacies around the conversation going on about psychic shielding, but keep in mind that your shielding is very hard to manufacture, and also needs that same level of manufacturing to repair after it's damaged.

There are probably similar things scattered across the Imperium that can protect areas from the Warp, but most of them are broken and can't be repaired because nobody understands them or knows how to repair them. The very definition of archaeotech.

And there is also a non-zero chance some inquisitor has one, knows how to repair it and is just not sharing :V
 
No seriously, they cannot resist chaos corruption

Huh. That whole "only sees demons as resources to be exploited" seems to echo how the thread treated bongo pretty closely.

Temptations and canned evils.

After all from an individual perspective shooting all the bronze age aliens on Secundus in order to loot its resources also makes sense, but we are not expecting that to happen right?

No? There's not an individual incentive to do that? You need to be able to get rich personally for that to be true, and in a post-modern industrial society stealing bronze age trinkets isn't going to get you there.

It the objective is to get as much juvenat into as many people it makes sense to ramp up the industry first until you can give it to everyone then do that rather than dribbling it in instead of industry

I don't think that is the objective. Or, rather, building out juvenat is not going to be a group objective.

The people making the production decisions want to not die, personally. Once they've got theirs the incentive to roll it out to everyone else is pretty weak, because they can afford then to take the civilizational point of view that manufacturing capacity is more important than saving a few randos from old age.

So as long as power is concentrated and does not turn over, the drain to produce juvenat is self-limiting. Unfortunately, a static, concentrated power structure is the exact opposite of a democracy.
 
I haven't explored all of the intricacies around the conversation going on about psychic shielding, but keep in mind that your shielding is very hard to manufacture, and also needs that same level of manufacturing to repair after it's damaged.

There are probably similar things scattered across the Imperium that can protect areas from the Warp, but most of them are broken and can't be repaired because nobody understands them or knows how to repair them. The very definition of archaeotech.
Yea, if we want our psychic shields to be useful for others we want them
1) vastly cheaper (200RP for the next stage)
2) self-repairing (150RP to start with)
 
Also, history note, Vita's shields according to quest lore were not at all unique - what they were is outmoded. Newer hulls didn't include them because they hadn't seemed to be necessary during the Golden Age, but Vita hadn't gotten updated before she was lost. Which is probably a key to the fall, though obviously direct information is lacking
What I mean is from a meta perspective, Vita's shields were added by the QM so that the premise of the quest worked. Otherwise,
-[] You're not. CHaOs iS alREady heRe.
This quest would be slightly spicier. Just pointing out there's a reason the shielding is as important as it is and why we aren't running into other ai's all over the place.

Huh. That whole "only sees demons as resources to be exploited" seems to echo how the thread treated bongo pretty closely.

Temptations and canned evils

Best part of this quest IMO. Who needs a temptation mechanic when you can just tempt the players?
 
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I don't think that is the objective. Or, rather, building out juvenat is not going to be a group objective.

The people making the production decisions want to not die, personally. Once they've got theirs the incentive to roll it out to everyone else is pretty weak, because they can afford then to take the civilizational point of view that manufacturing capacity is more important than saving a few randos from old age.

So as long as power is concentrated and does not turn over, the drain to produce juvenat is self-limiting. Unfortunately, a static, concentrated power structure is the exact opposite of a democracy.

But Denva is a democracy though, making the politicians live forever isn't going to magically make the democracy go away so if the population is pissed off enough they can just vote the people who made themselves immortal out of power and then nationalize juvenat production. The only way to make sure you stay immortal as a member of the Denvan elite is to ensure most people get it so they would not have an incentive to take it by force or set up a system as repressive as the Imperium of Man at its worse so that you can never, ever be overthrown. Simply concentrating a bit more power isn't enough if you are thinking of forever. After all House Denva fell.

No? There's not an individual incentive to do that? You need to be able to get rich personally for that to be true, and in a post-modern industrial society stealing bronze age trinkets isn't going to get you there.

The Velkar are living on the superconductor planet, that incentivizes doing a colonialism.
 
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Huh. That whole "only sees demons as resources to be exploited" seems to echo how the thread treated bongo pretty closely.

Temptations and canned evils.
I'd say there is a bit more nuance here. Its more "an enemy to be studied to counter the danger it represents." Still a resource, but a very risky one that we are only studying because encountering something similar in the wild without proper counters could be even more dangerous. A bit different than just using it as a Scrapcode Generator of our own against enemies, for example. Or to make an another one, making bots possessed by daemons to boost their power.
 
I am distinctly not buying the virtue of security by obscurity.

Our shields are unsubtle. That doesn't mean that daemons get no advantage from knowing about them - subtle temptations are a waste of effort on a literally mindless denier - but it does mean they don't have a trick that makes it easy to defeat them.
That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means.

"Security through obscurity" is not an indictment of making it harder for attackers to case you, but instead of using secrecy as a substitute for making your security more robust against even an informed attacker. And obviously I'm not arguing for us to slack off on shield development. I'm pretty sure I'm on the far end of people advocating for high investment, actually.

The reality is, attacks in every medium are prefaced by learning about the target if they can manage it be they hacking or burgalery or armed robbery or military invasion or good 'ol fashioned scams, and you can significantly improve your likelihood of detecting and defending against all of them by making what they want to know about you harder to get.

For context, while I am not specialized as a security professional, I've been a compTIA certified computer technician for over a decade, and I am currently a computer programmer by trade who spends a fair amount my time identifying and fixing security issues. This is more than theory for me - it's something I have long had to get right in my day job to keep it.

You might be more familiar with the term in the context of debates about the security of open source software - and it's not that some benefits of secrecy aren't being given up, it's that they're being traded in exchange for having dramatically more man-hours dedicated to auditing for vulnerabilities and improving its resilience against informed attackers, improvements that can be implemented almost instantly and effortlessly because it's just software. And even then, actually discovered vulnerabilities are kept private for months while software vendors implement fixes before any public disclosure is made.

It goes without saying that this is not a benefit we will ever get from the orthodox adeptus mechanicus. And while some of our improvements can be pushed out effortlessly, some require significant time and industrial power to do - see our main hull's shielding which is still stuck with low density.

Contrast with Denva who can do their own research and is strongly vetted by us and chaos-free besides. There's a reason I not only didn't argue for withholding it from them, but argued in favor of developing stuff specifically for their benefit: With them, the tradeoff is actually worth it.

Creating the conditions where it's worth it are what export restrictions and export models are all about.


Anyways, so long as we avoid our shielding systems falling into the wrong hands, the only experience chaos get trying to defeat it is when they're fighting against it in live combat, a situation where we learn from their fumbling attempts to respond to us.

Compare that to if they even so much as have an intact sample, in that case they can experiment and learn from it at their leisure without us knowing about what they learn at all until they're using their findings against us. Export restrictions and military secrecy exist for damn good reason.

But honestly, the broader real-world logic of why and how secrecy fits in to security postures of all kinds isn't necessary to see why here, in this quest, we really do not want to be loose with this tech.

Because we've already seen first hand what an uninformed attack looks like:
nfortunately for your chaotic assailant it's misjudged three things. First, it mistuned the attack. Instead of brute power it tried a subtler approach, whispers of maybe and what if that was designed to corrupt your machinery. But that's very much the wrong approach to use against your shielding, which just answered no. Second, it waited until after you'd upgraded its shielding to launch the attack. And third, even if it had succeeded its attack wasn't strong enough to get through the psychic shielding around your base. Even if it had gotten the first two right it would have probably managed to corrupt portions of your network, but it would have been an annoyance rather an an existential threat.

Scrapcode Generator rolls revealed:
Last turn - rolled a 21. Poor success.
This turn - rolled a 5. Failure.
-10 HP to the Scrapcode Vault.


In fact, all it's succeeded in doing is providing you more valuable data on psychic attacks and defense, as well as more data on what psychic technology looks like. These are firsthand measurements of challenging phenomena, and you almost want to thank the scrapcode generator for giving you such valuable data.

And what that same attacker can do when he's had the opportunity to learn:
-80 psychic shielding on The Spark of the Ancients

What follows is a torrent of scrapcode, perfectly tuned to destroy the scrapcode vault. Well, almost perfectly tuned. The machine spirits integrated into the station do their best to deflect and deal with the code, but they too are overwhelmed within moments. You lose all connection with the scrapcode vault in moments, and all you can do is hope that the effort exhausted the scrapcode generator.

-50 Psychic shielding on the Scrapcode Vault. Scrapcode Vault lost.

He rolled a 98 to do the latter; but so what? He needed to use that luck on having power to attempt an attack at all, and to learn how best to apply it. An actual adversary on the field will have power to spare, and will have gotten to do all their rolling to learn and adapt off-screen before we ever meet them if we let this stuff leak.

And I'd far, far rather face the former kind of attack than the latter.

Tl;dr?
They might possess greater insights overall, but that doesn't mean that mortals don't have anything to contribute - and presumably it's different demons banging on our shields when we warp jump, whereas having captive psy shields to mess with would allow specific demons to get lots of practice. Like, Chaos isn;t stupid, if they get their hands on our psy shields they will start developing countermeasures.
This.

But if that's not convincing enough, then I implore you to consider the much worse, much bigger elephant in the room. Something that applies chiefly to the discussion about teaching the imperium how to make it.

Because as you say, by and large it seems to be the case that while warp sight can make it through our shields somewhat, warp effects cannot, even with significant preparation. To get a warp effect through, the shield cannot be bypassed, the shield must be overpowered. So far, weaknesses come in the form of ways to overpower the shield more efficiently - not ways to attack through it while it's still up.

This has applied to everything save scrying, as said. HP is HP - we generally expect it to continue to apply to everything. And if it continues to do so, do you know what that would include?

Psychic attacks and demon banishing.

Let that sink in for a moment. Then, in light of that, consider this:
Also, history note, Vita's shields according to quest lore were not at all unique - what they were is outmoded. Newer hulls didn't include them because they hadn't seemed to be necessary during the Golden Age, but Vita hadn't gotten updated before she was lost. Which is probably a key to the fall, though obviously direct information is lacking.
Had they the ability to make these shields, would they not use it to deploy daemons, combatants who range from resistant to flat immune to conventional weapons, with shielding that protects them from everything they are weak to?

Had they even a few examples of the technology intact, the big names, daemon princes, daemon primarchs would be equipped as such at minimum. Had they even one example, Horus would have been equipped with it. Yet, none are or ever were.

Probably the only reason they didn't do it with stuff from the DAoT is because it doesn't self-heal, which to paraphrase Neablis - "archaeotech that is damaged when used and does not heal itself quickly becomes broken archaeotech".


To the ruinous powers that be, those who remember that this technology once existed, the incentive would then be to suppress knowledge of it to minimize the risk that others go searching for it - or that those more competent like the Votann or Tau go trying to recreate it.

Even if we play our hand perfectly the re-emergence of the technology and its design won't stay secret forever - no point if we don't use it at some point. But as long as keep this under wraps, that willful ignorance continues, and we get the mother of all opportunities to punch up.

And thereafter, I will continue to argue in favor of making sure Chaos has to fight tooth and claw for every scrap they can learn about our version of it without us learning right back, so we can continue to face attacks more like bongo's shitty turn 16 attempt than his terrifying, able-annhialate-denva's-biosphere turn 18 breakout.
 
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@Prime 2.0 I think you are one thing in the analyses above: Chaos is bad at industry, even worse than the Imperium by a wide margin, that is why in spite of having a considerable advantage in the literal bloody magic domain they still mostly unperformed said cosmic failed state. Even if some chaos polity gets an example of the shield they are not going to use it to deploy mass daemonic shock troops because most of them can barely weld straight without shoving the blowtorch in their eye ( :V ). Yes it would make people like the Iron Warriors stronger if by some mischance it got to them in particular, but the rest of the Chaotic factions would not react to this by starting to imitate them, if Chaotic factions were rational they would have won already, a significant number of them would react by trying to kill the people on their presumed side who know how to make the shields as heretics against the Pantheon.
 
Chaos is bad at industry
You mention Iron Warriors as one exception, but there is also the DarkMech, Vashtorr and the Forge of Souls, etc.

Sometimes Chaos is good at industry, and sometimes Chaos shakes hands and trades information with Chaos.

Even a Khornate can be sufficiently savvy as to have a representative of the DarkMech along. I prefer not to tempt fate.
 
You mention Iron Warriors as one exception, but there is also the DarkMech, Vashtorr and the Forge of Souls, etc.

Sometimes Chaos is good at industry, and sometimes Chaos shakes hands and trades information with Chaos.

Even a Khornate can be sufficiently savvy as to have a representative of the DarkMech along. I prefer not to tempt fate.
Was going to say yeah, chaos is a lot better at industry than they used to be.
 
That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means.

"Security through obscurity" is not an indictment of making it harder for attackers to case you, but instead of using secrecy as a substitute for making your security more robust against even an informed attacker. And obviously I'm not arguing for us to slack off on shield development. I'm pretty sure I'm on the far end of people advocating for high investment, actually.

The reality is, attacks in every medium are prefaced by learning about the target if they can manage it be they hacking or burgalery or armed robbery or military invasion or good 'ol fashioned scams, and you can significantly improve your likelihood of detecting and defending against all of them by making what they want to know about you harder to get.

For context, while I am not specialized as a security professional, I've been a compTIA certified computer technician for over a decade, and I am currently a computer programmer by trade who spends a fair amount my time identifying and fixing security issues. This is more than theory for me - it's something I have long had to get right in my day job to keep it.

You might be more familiar with the term in the context of debates about the security of open source software - and it's not that some benefits of secrecy aren't being given up, it's that they're being traded in exchange for having dramatically more man-hours dedicated to auditing for vulnerabilities and improving its resilience against informed attackers, improvements that can be implemented almost instantly and effortlessly because it's just software. And even then, actually discovered vulnerabilities are kept private for months while software vendors implement fixes before any public disclosure is made.
Yeah, this is where I continue to think you're going critically wrong, though. Psy shields are not computer security. As you quoted me saying, they aren't defeated by finding they actually had a gaping hole in them all along that's just very hard to find. They're a lot more like a physical barrier. Technique matters, but it matters on the level of using your brute force competently.

I don't think strategizing about maximizing the time when enemies don't use their force competently is a good priority, lacking a specific agenda for that window.

(I know I am not addressing your thing about daemons using psy shields for their own purposes. I don't know whether that actually works at all, but maybe?)
 
The Velkar are living on the superconductor planet, that incentivizes doing a colonialism.

On a societal level, or a corporate one, yeah. Not an individual one.

This whole thing is just a specific application of the principle/agent problem. The incentives for the guy in charge are different than the incentives for the people who put him there. If there were an easy solution, we'd already be using it in the real world.

To get a warp effect through, the shield cannot be bypassed, the shield must be overpowered.

This implies that we cannot teleport through shields. Is that true? If so, we should really strip out that teleportarium of ours. If not, then the easiest way to bypass our shields is just to teleport an incarnated demon into the ship.
 
On a societal level, or a corporate one, yeah. Not an individual one.

This whole thing is just a specific application of the principle/agent problem. The incentives for the guy in charge are different than the incentives for the people who put him there. If there were an easy solution, we'd already be using it in the real world.



This implies that we cannot teleport through shields. Is that true? If so, we should really strip out that teleportarium of ours. If not, then the easiest way to bypass our shields is just to teleport an incarnated demon into the ship.
Psy shields are directional.

Also, teleporting is weird. Teleportariums can't send stuff through regular void shields, which AFAIK don't do anything about most psy effects.
 
@Prime 2.0 I think you are one thing in the analyses above: Chaos is bad at industry, even worse than the Imperium by a wide margin, that is why in spite of having a considerable advantage in the literal bloody magic domain they still mostly unperformed said cosmic failed state. Even if some chaos polity gets an example of the shield they are not going to use it to deploy mass daemonic shock troops because most of them can barely weld straight without shoving the blowtorch in their eye ( :V ). Yes it would make people like the Iron Warriors stronger if by some mischance it got to them in particular, but the rest of the Chaotic factions would not react to this by starting to imitate them, if Chaotic factions were rational they would have won already, a significant number of them would react by trying to kill the people on their presumed side who know how to make the shields as heretics against the Pantheon.
That's why I specified "teaching the imperium how to make it", since that's what would make manufacturing their own possible for the dark mechanicus - what with us making it comprehensible to the more hidebound regular mechanicus first. Can't speak for the other technologically inclined chaos factions, but in general I expect bigger and meaner chaos gribblies to steal knowledge and examples of the tech from smaller ones who capture it until it filters up to someone who matters. Chaos doesn't have to be cooperative or cohesive for our tech getting in to their hands to cause wider spread problems, especially not when the answer to "how to get more of it" is "go after the source of this one", a tactic that chaos very much does understand.

It especially wouldn't have stopped Horus from having it, what with that being the peak of intra-chaos cooperation afaik. Like, maybe he did and nobody but the emperor noticed? But there's a limit to how much this can be in the wild in the quest's AU while still resembling canon.

Others have brought up chaos cooperation/trading, so I'll leave it at that.
This implies that we cannot teleport through shields. Is that true? If so, we should really strip out that teleportarium of ours. If not, then the easiest way to bypass our shields is just to teleport an incarnated demon into the ship.
We cannot teleport through void shields, we have to bring them down first. This is explicitly stated in the equipment. Our own void shields notably are not said to stop our own teleportarium.

Whether or not psy shields stop teleportation though, it wouldn't matter for our own teleportarium unless anyone else gets psy shields - because psy shields are not bidirectional, they have a facing against which they work, like a valve. They no more stop us from teleporting out than they'd stop our homebrew scrapcode from being fired.

Not sure what your point was supposed to be.

Yeah, this is where I continue to think you're going critically wrong, though. Psy shields are not computer security. As you quoted me saying, they aren't defeated by finding they actually had a gaping hole in them all along that's just very hard to find. They're a lot more like a physical barrier. Technique matters, but it matters on the level of using your brute force competently.

I don't think strategizing about maximizing the time when enemies don't use their force competently is a good priority, lacking a specific agenda for that window.
No, they are not computer security. They are military technology, and secrecy and exports are a major part of the management of military technology, just like it's part of the security posture of every field of security ever.

Something I went out of my way to point out, so I'll say it a third time, this is not just a computer science thing, I just went deep into that framing because it's the one you started with.

I've described multiple levels of knowledge and the benefits of each. Focusing purely on "they don't know the technology is even back yet" part is... like, was that what you were doing? It's reductive.

Yet, I'll say it again. Secret weapons are a thing, and they work when you leverage them right, because if an enemy doesn't even know something is possible for someone to do, you can catch them with their pants down something fierce.

Like, say, to cover for a ship-scale amped Cia scouring a daemon world, followed with psy shielded exterminatus munitions to finish the job. Far off, sure, but that's the kind of prize a really good secret weapon can win if you can keep the secret.

So don't blow the secret to our enemies unnecessarily.

But, once they know it exists, what then?

Even once the secret is blown, we still shouldn't make it easy for them to study how to counter it, because the difference in attack strength between them having time to study it or not is demonstrated on screen to be over an order of magnitude of HP. Bongo went from doing 10 damage while hooked up to the generators on klysar's nest to then doing 10 damage with power gained ex nilho to then doing more than 130 and probably less than 180 per Neablis.

Literally over a 10x difference. High density shielding and nat100 scrapcode resistance *combined* did not manage a 10x difference in shield strength. That's a really big deal, and it was accomplished in 20 years by a single demon stuck in a box!

We're on the cusp of ending the red queen's race with that little bugger, I would really like to not start another.
 
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Regarding daemons using psy shields as wargear, here's why I doubt it's a problem in most cases.

A) minor daemons don't get nice things. Chaos won't give Bloodletters personal psy shields for the same reasons they don't get personal energy shields or power weapons.

B) major daemons shouldn't need a technological solution. If a big daemon can defend against such attacks by having a proxy to reject them for it, why wouldn't it just use lesser daemons for the job? Which are probably easier to source than specialty electronics.

I could see it maybe being useful to a technologically apt cult that has an easier time building technology than just summoning more daemons? If that's a thing?
 
Regarding daemons using psy shields as wargear, here's why I doubt it's a problem in most cases.

A) minor daemons don't get nice things. Chaos won't give Bloodletters personal psy shields for the same reasons they don't get personal energy shields or power weapons.

B) major daemons shouldn't need a technological solution. If a big daemon can defend against such attacks by having a proxy to reject them for it, why wouldn't it just use lesser daemons for the job? Which are probably easier to source than specialty electronics.

I could see it maybe being useful to a technologically apt cult that has an easier time building technology than just summoning more daemons? If that's a thing?
Bloodthirsters and other big boys having it is a crisis on its own, actually. It's effectively armor for psychic attacks, it'll work in addition to what else they've got.

As for not needing a technological solution - well, frankly, they actually probably do for the simple reason that Banishing is a mature body of techniques targeting weaknesses that they couldn't eliminate even after tens of thousands of years. The play and counterplay to Banishing using chaos's own natural skills is already well established - the play and counterplay to psy shielding is not.

If psy shielding blocks banishing - and we have no reason just yet to think it won't, it's very broad spectrum and can't really be worked around as you've reminded me a few times - it eliminates their figurative type weakness for as long as the shielding holds up.

And, just as a reminder...
Unlocks additional technology for further miniaturization to put it into totems or implants.)
The shielding can be implemented in a way where their immune-to-material-damage body blocks physical damage to the shield emitter.

Somebody facing a greater daemon, daemon prince, or daemon primarch so armed would have to batter down the psychic shielding with warp-based attacks without the benefit of exploiting demonic weaknesses. And the better the psychic shielding we've made that gets captured and used like that, the harder it becomes to overcome that hurdle.

You can mitigate this risk by making export models - stuff that, even if captured, is short of your best in ways that make it less useful for an adversary. Shields using an alternate meaning that lets through just banishing, as a hypothetical example. See also not giving them the chance to practice against what you, personally, are using.

And then further mitigate it by only giving it out to trustworthy groups, under agreements to not to disseminate it to places that put it at unnecessary risk of falling into adversarial hands.

Export models and export restrictions are used in the real world for a reason.
 
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they have a facing against which they work, like a valve.

Do we have evidence of this? Or is it an assumption, or WoG?

It seems pretty weird for it to work this way, tbh- like, a speaker that only projects sound in one direction is an extremely rare and very highly engineered thing. How is a vector associated with a thought? How can a single thought contained in a physical space be different when approached from different directions?

Not sure what your point was supposed to be.

That payshields should interfere with our outgoing warp stuff as much as it interferes with informing warp stuff.

It's not like armor only works in one direction.
 
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Do we have evidence of this? Or is it an assumption, or WoG?

It seems pretty weird for it to work this way, tbh- like, a speaker that only projects around in one direction is an extremely rare and very highly engineered thing. How is a vector associated with a thought? How can a single thought contained in a physical space be different when approached from different directions?
WoG, probably quest text too. "Inward facing shields" and phrases like it have been used by Neablis frequently when describing stuff like the scrapcode vault and the psytech lab Cia trains in.
That payshields should interfere with our outgoing warp stuff as much as it interferes with informing warp stuff.

It's not like armor only works in one direction.
Armor is also generally more effective in one direction than the other because of shaping and such, even ignoring things like explosive reactive armor which depends on the layer behind it to work.

Being strong from one side is just, kind of a thing in general, everywhere.

If it helps to visualize it in the case of the psy shields, just imagine that the shield is saying "no" only to everything outside the shield. If it said "no" in both directions, that'd be splitting its effort for no reason, though I suppose Vita could probably make one that did so anyways if she wanted?
 
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No, they are not computer security. They are military technology, and secrecy and exports are a major part of the management of military technology, just like it's part of the security posture of every field of security ever.

Something I went out of my way to point out, so I'll say it a third time, this is not just a computer science thing, I just went deep into that framing because it's the one you started with.

I've described multiple levels of knowledge and the benefits of each. Focusing purely on "they don't know the technology is even back yet" part is... like, was that what you were doing? It's reductive.

Yet, I'll say it again. Secret weapons are a thing, and they work when you leverage them right, because if an enemy doesn't even know something is possible for someone to do, you can catch them with their pants down something fierce.

Like, say, to cover for a ship-scale amped Cia scouring a daemon world, followed with psy shielded exterminatus munitions to finish the job. Far off, sure, but that's the kind of prize a really good secret weapon can win if you can keep the secret.

So don't blow the secret to our enemies unnecessarily.

But, once they know it exists, what then?

Even once the secret is blown, we still shouldn't make it easy for them to study how to counter it, because the difference in attack strength between them having time to study it or not is demonstrated on screen to be over an order of magnitude of HP. Bongo went from doing 10 damage while hooked up to the generators on klysar's nest to then doing 10 damage with power gained ex nilho to then doing more than 130 and probably less than 180 per Neablis.

Literally over a 10x difference. High density shielding and nat100 scrapcode resistance *combined* did not manage a 10x difference in shield strength. That's a really big deal, and it was accomplished in 20 years by a single demon stuck in a box!

We're on the cusp of ending the red queen's race with that little bugger, I would really like to not start another.
I still don't trust your understanding of Bongo at all, frankly.

And namechecking "hacking or burgalery or armed robbery or military invasion or good 'ol fashioned scams," isn't really resolving my point either. None of those is like a psy shield!

As for secret weapons? Secret weapons are mostly delusional. Not totally. It's possible to get a useful surprise out if them. But mostly. The most useful part of tech secrecy isn't concealing its existence but denying the enemy the ability to copy your methods. Secondarily keeping them from learning your detailed specs so they can't game those. Thirdly propping up a paper tiger when the detailed specs are that your secret weapon is actually no good...

But our shield isn't going to be a secret weapon we can whip out at a decisive point, anyway! Best case the cat will get out of the bag when we run into Chaos other than Bongo. Worst case...worst case the immortal daemons remember it from before Vita even woke up. Or slightly better, noticed it when we warped. (We haven't really increased its quality against anything but scrapcode, have we? Just made it bigger. Not that I don't like bigger.)
 
If it helps to visualize it in the case of the psy shields, just imagine that the shield is saying "no" only to everything outside the shield.

But if it is just thinking 'No' as hard and as loudly as it can, how does that have a direction? More than that, it can't just be projecting a field of 'no', otherwise stuff from the inside would pass through the circuit, hit the field, and get bounced back. It's got to be a vector, but not a property of the circuit itself.

As far as armor goes, yeah it's easy to make it stronger in one direction but you are never going to get armor that is strong in one direction and non-existent in the other.

One directional psyshields are easy to just accept until you start thinking about the mechanics. Or rather, that's where I'm at.
 
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