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I have an omake idea inspired by the scattered discussion on how Poptart's take on the world of Victoria could work as a video game setting and occasional comparisons to the world of The New Order: Last Days of Europe. It is a forum discussion in a world where Poptart's Victoria Falls is a Hearts of Iron 4 mod in the same style as mods such as TNO. It will obviously be non-canon. My basic idea is it starts with two players who are familiar with the HOI modding scene but are new to the Victoria Falls mod. One of the players has played Chicago/CFC and made the same choices we did and played to the point when we currently are. The other player played Victoria up to just after the signing of the peace treaty and quit in frustrated at all the mechanics representing Victoria's self defeating nature. Other people drop in the discussion talking about all the things the HOI community usually talks about discussing a particular mod.

But before I can do that, I need a list of all the people and parties that could have taken power in Chicago or hold significant political influence. Here is what is on the top of my head. The starting government is Ron J. Burns's transitional military government. For an alternate path, it is not impossible to imagine Burn trying to hang to power by delaying the elections or the civilian political parties repeatedly failing to organize enough to allow a proper election to the point they discredit themselves in the eyes of the public forcing the military government to stay on. Burns is an old man and I imagine his successor in the military government would be his number two in the Devils being Schultz. There is obviously former Chicago mayor Sara Johnson of the social democratic Commonwealth Progressive Party. Johnson enacts social democratic policies but it is obvious her main concern and focus of attention is the destruction of Victoria and other fascist states. The leader of the far right is Crokus Sperling of the fascist American Union. Sperling is a mastermind schemer who runs an open political party and controls a shadowy network that goes throughout the government and the other parties to try to expand his influence in Chicago and eventually take over. The leader of the Left Opposition is Maggie O'Shay of the Commonwealth Farmer-Laborer Party which is a left wing broad tent mix of more radical democratic socialists, De Leonists, and various sorts of communists. O'Shay must constantly herd the group of cats that is the CFLP. A major political shock or the CFLP actually winning an election could potentially see O'Shay replaced or the party splitting if O'Shay is not careful. Please correct me if I got the details wrong or if I am missing anything or anyone important I should know about.
 
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So if was thinking, if we can crush the Victorians, do you think afterwards we could have an easier time rebuilding universities if we partition the EU for help and security? We can offer a joint security effort in case anyone tries to emulate Bill Kraft.
 
So if was thinking, if we can crush the Victorians, do you think afterwards we could have an easier time rebuilding universities if we partition the EU for help and security? We can offer a joint security effort in case anyone tries to emulate Bill Kraft.

Why the EU? We can also petition the Carribean nations and Miami and California?
 
Has anyone answered the fishing problem Victoria faces?

Their new navy was fishing boats and it's implied to be a significant portion of their protein supply. We sunk that.

I mean, I'm also kinda assuming the cod fishery rebounded even though the moratorium on fishing is still in effect even now as climate change reduced their spawn rates.

Their current valuable fishing is actually lobsters...


Add in the civil war and we might be talking about mass starvation and a huge refugee movement..... INTO our lands. Or Detroit. We going to need that census and farming.......
 
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Add in the civil war and we might be talking about mass starvation and a huge refugee movement..... INTO our lands. Or Detroit. We going to need that census and farming.......
I'm not sure Victorian refugees may be accepted. Lots of places may shoot them on the border.

Especially since a Victorian refugee column may look more like a Children's crusade than actual refugees. Their whole ideology lends itself quite well to a ""we'll just conquer food" type of strategy.
 
I'm not sure Victorian refugees may be accepted. Lots of places may shoot them on the border.

Especially since a Victorian refugee column may look more like a Children's crusade than actual refugees. Their whole ideology lends itself quite well to a ""we'll just conquer food" type of strategy.
I say if we can feed them, lets do the real Christian thing and be good samaritans and welcome them in with open arms; just remind them that the CFC is a diverse melting pot full of people who hate retroculture and won't hesitate to punish you if you don't treat your newfound neighbors with respect.
 
I say if we can feed them, lets do the real Christian thing and be good samaritans and welcome them in with open arms; just remind them that the CFC is a diverse melting pot full of people who hate retroculture and won't hesitate to punish you if you don't treat your newfound neighbors with respect.
Yeah... But the problem is threefold.

1. How do you identify refugees from bandits ?
From a distance, they might look the same. Furthermore, history tells us that the collapse of a state translates to banditry as desperate people do anything for survival. Somalia shows that fishermen become pirates for example.

2. More critically, a refugee crisis fleeing into our lands means border security just became another active issue for our overstretched forces. Where would be our screening forces and pickup points? The battalion first aid stations to treat the injured and sick fleeing? The evacuation points and vehicles ? The logistics to support such an endeavour?

3. Then finally would be the infrastructure to actually house, feed and then intergrate them into our nation.


A starvation crisis leading to flights of refugees isn't something that's going to happen in our current turn, but it's also precisely the same kinda AP problem that can be used to fuck us over. Oops, we haven't invested enough points to solve a potential food problem. Here's a refugees crisis to change our Food will become a problem in 2 turns to it's happening now. We want to demobilise our forces to refit them, invest in next gen stuff, with a more capable navy and the spoils of war for our airforce. Oops, you gotta spend an AP point now instead to solve the refugee crisis using your military.
 
Yeah... But the problem is threefold.

1. How do you identify refugees from bandits ?
From a distance, they might look the same. Furthermore, history tells us that the collapse of a state translates to banditry as desperate people do anything for survival. Somalia shows that fishermen become pirates for example.

2. More critically, a refugee crisis fleeing into our lands means border security just became another active issue for our overstretched forces. Where would be our screening forces and pickup points? The battalion first aid stations to treat the injured and sick fleeing? The evacuation points and vehicles ? The logistics to support such an endeavour?

3. Then finally would be the infrastructure to actually house, feed and then intergrate them into our nation.


A starvation crisis leading to flights of refugees isn't something that's going to happen in our current turn, but it's also precisely the same kinda AP problem that can be used to fuck us over. Oops, we haven't invested enough points to solve a potential food problem. Here's a refugees crisis to change our Food will become a problem in 2 turns to it's happening now. We want to demobilise our forces to refit them, invest in next gen stuff, with a more capable navy and the spoils of war for our airforce. Oops, you gotta spend an AP point now instead to solve the refugee crisis using your military.
Ok so, let's see if we can't convince the surrounding city-states to try to take on some of the load, work on enhanced security and checkpoints and maybe appeal for foreign aid.
 
In the novel, he rescued a White Mexican Noblewoman (scion of some ancient Spanish house nobody has heard of or cares about) from Aztec pirates, who was the ultimate woman (pathologically domestic, knew, "her place," and was entirely devoted to the service of men). They never married, though.

That's not a thing that actually, y'know, happens, so I'll say that during his period of ineffectually flailing at pirates, Rumford's crew stumbled across a refugee vessel that didn't realize early enough that it needed to fucking run, and Rumford took a liking to Maria. He basically made her a live-in maid, and she more or less rolled with it because she was thousands of miles from home with no support network and had to survive. Whether or not they had something with the external aesthetics of a romantic relationship is an exercise left to the reader, but the CMC has her enshrined as a First Lady-ish figure regardless of whatever the actual facts may be. Her life is strictly structured to best enable her use as a PR piece and a feature at the social functions of the mighty, so she drifts from event to event, always present but never really included, masking what is essentially an entire lifetime of bitterness and spite behind a pleasant smile, as she is, to this day, still intent on surviving in the hell her world has become.

She is also a highly-valued contact and asset for at least six foreign intelligence agencies and as many as eight-two resistance movements. When everybody sees you as furniture and insists on inviting you to the fancy dinners, you hear a lot, and Maria has a lot of vengefulness built up about how her life has turned.
Actually came to mind recently.

The woman lived with Rumford for anywhere from 5-10 years before his assassination, and essentially kept house for him.
And we know that the original ruling Vics in general, and Rumford in particular, were terrible at data security; I mean, they attempted to run their military HQ out of a diner after all.

She is one of the few living people who knows where the bodies are buried. She certainly heard Rumford boast about Atlanta among his intimates. Dollars to donuts she has actual documentary evidence of Rumford's culpability in the nuking of Atlanta; maybe even stole his journals after his death, or abstracted similar documentation. Not to mention the Shanghai terrorist attack.

Why she hasn't shared it with anyone? May well have. But I doubt she's shared any documents.
You dont survive two decades plus as a figurehead of an ideology you detest without being very cagey.
Lady is probably in her 50s now, if she was abducted as a young woman in the 2040s. She didn't get that old by taking stupid risks.


The EU are one of the more well off factions, and if we show that the Victorians are no longer a threat, we can spin this as an opportunity to rebuild the America with help of foreign aide and security.
California and New York have intact education systems, and the bigger universities actually have online syllabuses and lectures IRL.
The African Union's power blocs exist, as well, as does China and South America.
Even Indian organizations are not exactly going to be , and religious NGOs have a track record of operating in underdeveloped regions.

Education aid is not something that's hard to get.
Cuba used to export teachers and educational experts to Third World nation states, and still does.
Has anyone answered the fishing problem Victoria faces?
Their new navy was fishing boats and it's implied to be a significant portion of their protein supply. We sunk that.
We sunk most everything on Lake Erie that they attempted to weaponize.

But we didnt touch Lake Ontario, or the St Lawrence Seaway, or the vast majority of the Atlantic coastline.
There are going to be fishing boats left on Lake Ontario and on the Atlantic coastline, and any losses should be fairly easy to replace, given the small size of those things.

It's the cargo ships that are all kinds of fucked.
Because they'd have looted those for moving men and supplies. And we would have sunk them.
Add in the civil war and we might be talking about mass starvation and a huge refugee movement..... INTO our lands. Or Detroit. We going to need that census and farming.......
More like into Ontario, actually.
Pennsylvania is a devastated place with a degraded road network and a very dim view of Victoria and Victorians after decades of punitive raids.
Crossing it in any numbers is going to be bad juju; impossible to attempt in winter, difficult in spring, and

Refugees are going to be pursuing a couple routes(red for the Commies, blue for FCNY):
  • Across Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence Seaway into western Quebec and upper Ontario
  • Across the Welland Canal into lower Ontario and towards Detroit
  • Across PA/OH/IN overland towards Toledo
  • By river via the Allegheny-Ohio from NY to the Mississipi confluence across PA/WV/OH/KY/IN
  • Off the Atlantic coastline of NY/CT/RI/MA into FCNY's Long Island coastline.
  • Across the Hudson into New Jersey
  • Across New York State to the Bronx Wall.
Only a few of those options are even remotely family friendly, even if you had the supplies.

It's FCNY that's going to see the most of these, not us.
Because it has close land and sea borders to most of Victoria's most populated areas, and some of the places where fighting from our invasion and the civil war has displaced the most people.

While I suspect they can and will move a lot of those people across the river into New Jersey, they'd still have to feed and house them.
And keeping them that close to the Vic borders is a potential flashpoint once Victoria begins to stabilize.

This spells an opportunity for us to get paid for doing something we'd normally do anyway.

Just have FCNY fly them out on aircraft into O'Hare, and we can resettle them into Illnois/Iowa/Wisconsin.
Using 2x chartered Boeing 777-10X equivalents flying 4x a day from Chicago to New York and carrying 450 people each, they can move 3600 a day or 108,000 in 30 days.

I'm not sure Victorian refugees may be accepted. Lots of places may shoot them on the border.
Lots of places will shoot them on the border, or otherwise disappear them. Or just loot them and turn them out with nothing.
Remember what happened to the Buffalo relief force when news got out that the Leamington Force had been smashed?
Hell, remember what happened to the survivors of the Leamington force?

We'll have to actively reach out to relocate any refugees in lower Ontario, and bank on FCNY doing the same in PA/NJ/NY.
We can probably rely on Vox Populi to help amplify the Commonwealth's commitment to take them in, but we'd need to actively invest in physical outreach to make communities pass them along instead of ignore or shoot them.

Yeah... But the problem is threefold.
In order:
1)There's several hundred kilometers from the closest points of Victoria to our territory.

Anyone coming to the Commonwealth's current borders has to either go overland towards Toledo, crossing Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana(>400km).
Or go downriver via the Allegheny-Ohio at least as far as Indiana(>500km). Or walk cross country over the Welland Canal past Hamilton towards Detroit(>300km). Or go directly across Lake Ontario or from parts of Quebec into upper Ontario and head for the Lake Superior coastline(>200km)

On foot, no motor vehicles and little food across a population that may well be actively hostile.
Refugees won't make it without help.
And we already committed to take refugees with the provisions of the treaty.

2) Get someone else to pay for it.
FCNY for example would probably pay a premium to get a chunk of the refugees they are about to receive off their hands.

Refugees are generally economic assets, but you need to invest in them.
What would be an immediate resource sink for a high tech, highly educated polity like FCNY would be immediate assets for us, both workforce and as PR, because the general level of technology in the Commonwealth is stuff they'd be familiar with.

3) They're Victorian citizens subjects is probably a more accurate term.
The enforced Luddism of Retroculture means that we're not actually looking at people with especially great expectations here.
Especially if they're running away from Victoria.
 
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Also worth noting that FCNY is basically at capacity right now, population-wise. Like, sure, they could expand that capacity, but it'd be a massive investment. Refugees would be all kinds of expensive for them.
 
Not to mention there's the security aspect for them, and opportunity cost.

They've spent enough time loathing the Vics that there will be internal stability considerations to taking in a significant population of Vic refugees.
Not tens or hundreds, but tens of thousands of people with no experience of modern society, in the confines of Long Island.
With how close most of their stuff is to each other, a couple diehards could do significant harm, like the occasional ISIS crazy did in Europe .

Furthermore, when Victoria stops being a flaming dumpster fire, having a Vic refugee population right on their border could provide a flashpoint for tensions prematurely.

Besides, time and political effort they are spending attempting to assimilate Vic refugees, is time and effort they are not spending attempting to assimilate New Jersey, Philadelphia and Delaware. Which would give them some bulk in their economy and in their security.

They'd be much better off paying us off to take them in along with the other refugees we are taking, and chartering transportation to move any refugees who show up on their borders, or swim the Hudson into New Jersey. Not to mention that it buys them international PR points to be seen to be funding relief/refugee efforts, and local PR points in the New Jersey area to be handling the Vic refugee problem.

And for an American successor state that specced into diplomacy and espionage, that's pretty big.
 
Not to mention there's the security aspect for them, and opportunity cost.

They've spent enough time loathing the Vics that there will be internal stability considerations to taking in a significant population of Vic refugees.
Not tens or hundreds, but tens of thousands of people with no experience of modern society, in the confines of Long Island.
With how close most of their stuff is to each other, a couple diehards could do significant harm, like the occasional ISIS crazy did in Europe .

Furthermore, when Victoria stops being a flaming dumpster fire, having a Vic refugee population right on their border could provide a flashpoint for tensions prematurely.

Besides, time and political effort they are spending attempting to assimilate Vic refugees, is time and effort they are not spending attempting to assimilate New Jersey, Philadelphia and Delaware. Which would give them some bulk in their economy and in their security.

They'd be much better off paying us off to take them in along with the other refugees we are taking, and chartering transportation to move any refugees who show up on their borders, or swim the Hudson into New Jersey. Not to mention that it buys them international PR points to be seen to be funding relief/refugee efforts, and local PR points in the New Jersey area to be handling the Vic refugee problem.

And for an American successor state that specced into diplomacy and espionage, that's pretty big.
I was kinda thinking more along the terms of AP expenditure though since the specifics are solvable. It's just looking down the road and planning for what might come up next and what will be long term goals vs short term crisis/pirorities.

That and whether the die can throw problems at us...
 
So what's the plan for the end of the civil war? I was thinking that when the war ends we either A) invade the Victorians while the winner is still exhausted and vulnerable and either spin things to make ourselves looks good or just accept the backlash, or B) Wait for the winners to attack us and launch a counterattack at the risk of letting the winner build themselves up.
 
So what's the plan for the end of the civil war?
The Plan is to rush our but down the Mighty Missisip and break into the International Market and Meet with fellow revivalists state Miami.

Thats the BIG Plan we have going down , or at least that's what I want to do. Because YOU NEVER Trust a Victorian to Honor his word, it will not END WELL, we already know how this goes.
 
I was kinda thinking more along the terms of AP expenditure though since the specifics are solvable. It's just looking down the road and planning for what might come up next and what will be long term goals vs short term crisis/pirorities.
You need to spend money AP to make money AP though.

We're still at a point where there's a lot of low hanging fruit that needs to be plucked in the process of setting a functioning state on the path of an industrial and military buildup for a multi-decade campaign. Vic retroculture does mean that a lot of the refugees are going to be good with their hands, and at making do.

And the sort of people who will risk several hundred km trips into the unknown do have the sort of drive that nationbuilders find useful.

Even feeding refugees is not as big a problem as it would initially seem; we are sitting on, or adjacent to, some of the most productive farmland in the United States, and even 1970s agricultural practices will put us within 70% of modern US crop yields, which were achieved without GMOs and some of the knowledge we take for granted.

For example, US national yearly wheat yields, measured in bushels per acre, were
12.2 bu/acre in 1900
13.7 bu/acre in 1910
13.5 bu/acre in 1920
14.2 bu/acre in 1930
15.3 bu/acre in 1940
16.5 bu/acre in 1950
26.1 bu/acre in 1960
31 bu/acre in 1970
33.5 bu/acre in 1980
39.5 bu/acre in 1990
42 bu/acre in 2000
46.1 bu/acre in 2010

ourworldindata.org

Crop Yields

Increasing crop yields is crucial to improve food security, living standards, and reduce human impacts on the environment.
Yields almost triple between 1900 and 1980, with most of the productivity gain starting in 1950.

The problem is logistics: moving the food from farm to mouths and market.
Which is one of the hats we actually took during chargen. Not to mention that it provides a pretext for people to build up our internal logistic capabilities and otherwise throw civilian aid money at us.

Plus, the economic and social impact of depriving Victoria of several percent of their population right after the population loss of a bloody civil war?
Just as they are planning on embarking on both rebuilding and an industrial and military buildup of their own?
Sets them back several years and costs them additional resources as they require ever more radical social changes to stay relevant.

Can't make bricks without straw. Can't go to war without people.
That and whether the die can throw problems at us...
There is that, yes.
:V
 
You need to spend money AP to make money AP though.

We're still at a point where there's a lot of low hanging fruit that needs to be plucked in the process of setting a functioning state on the path of an industrial and military buildup for a multi-decade campaign. Vic retroculture does mean that a lot of the refugees are going to be good with their hands, and at making do.

And the sort of people who will risk several hundred km trips into the unknown do have the sort of drive that nationbuilders find useful.

Even feeding refugees is not as big a problem as it would initially seem; we are sitting on, or adjacent to, some of the most productive farmland in the United States, and even 1970s agricultural practices will put us within 70% of modern US crop yields, which were achieved without GMOs and some of the knowledge we take for granted.

For example, US national yearly wheat yields, measured in bushels per acre, were
Yields almost triple between 1900 and 1980, with most of the productivity gain starting in 1950.

The problem is logistics: moving the food from farm to mouths and market.
Which is one of the hats we actually took during chargen. Not to mention that it provides a pretext for people to build up our internal logistic capabilities and otherwise throw civilian aid money at us.

Plus, the economic and social impact of depriving Victoria of several percent of their population right after the population loss of a bloody civil war?
Just as they are planning on embarking on both rebuilding and an industrial and military buildup of their own?
Sets them back several years and costs them additional resources as they require ever more radical social changes to stay relevant.

Can't make bricks without straw. Can't go to war without people.

There is that, yes.
:V
Err. Preaching to the crowd here. The problem to me is more juggling pirorities again, which is the whole point of an AP sink.


On a totally seperate note.....I know the OP went climate change got reversed thanks to Russia ... And arguably the great depopulation of the world means more space.

I however will just like to point out that damage is permanent in many ways, with farmland fertility degraded. And any nation that threatens to go full greenhouse gas effect will give Russia a chance to say this rogue state is threatening the planet again.

Just has to get it off my chest since we seem to have fallened into some sort of inexhaustible Earth mentality .
 
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Canon Omake: Vox Populi Dispatches, Zombies
Vox Populi Dispatches
Zombies (Resurrected ghosts)


Andrew's Garden.

Welcome everyone, it is 7 pm Vox Populi Radio Evening Dispatch. Cera Anderson reporting.

A new source of controversy has appeared for a conference already full of controversy, as the rumored Diplomat from Andrew's Garden, now calling themselves the Blue Mountain Farmers, has arrived. While the current government has staked the conference on an absolute willingness to allow any representative into the conference, current diplomatic status and past actions aside, some feel this should not apply in this case.

"Let's be real. They are Victorian's. The place is nothing more than a Victorian base for slaves, and wives. Which are little more than slaves really. Anyone in charge in that place was made so directly by the Victorians and has been willing to tolerate them for years. Do you know what they named their ship? 'Eve's Redemption.' It's an actual Victoria troop transport. We didn't let the Victorians join. Why should we pretend this is any different?"

Those are the words of Mathers Zebedee, a Veteran of the Commonwealth army, honorably discharged after being injured in the leg during the defense of Detroit. "I ain't walking around with a cane so we could make peace and let them walk all over us. I know why the Unionists dispersed too readily, cause the smart ones are already in the government."

While far from a majority, Mather represents a contingent of residents unhappy with the conference. I use residents explicitly, as this group represents a coalition of citizens and non-citizens. As one who asked not to be identified put is. "We moved here because we believed in the Commonwealth and those who stayed in Detroit got in ahead of us. How many more countries who once tried to starve us are going to get in ahead of those who most believed?"

Adding fuel to the fire was the decision to create a perimeter around the delegates' lodgings. The government has defended this citing safety concern and the assassinations two years ago, and noting that protestors were allowed to protest around the conference center itself, only the docks and hotel buildings were off-limits.

Marriah Issah explains further. "Since the collapse, community leaders have been seen as the fundamental basis of legitimate government. This stands in contrast to the more bureaucratic, distant leaders of large-scale nations states. For post-collapse nation-states, the leader is expected to be known. Though many are too big for direct knowledge, the selling of yourself as 'local' is vital. Not merely because of the need all leaders have for connection but because non-local leaders are always associated with Victorian (Or California out west) interference.

Ironically this benefitted the Victorian own goals, as it made large scale polities near impossible. What the Commonwealth is currently doing is attempting to transform itself into a large-scale government, without engaging in dictatorial stances. This puts it in a difficult position. Its position as the strongest polity means that it needs room to be concessionary to other polities in order to build a fragile reputation, but has to balance that against the disinterest, and the feelings of disenfranchisement it creates amongst its own population."

So far, the Johnston government has done well on this. Bolstered by her presence in the near-universally popular Burns Government, the victory in Detroit, and her successful forcing of Victoria to the table. Johnson is riding a tidal wave of support and most citizens are willing to follow her lead.

As one Mike Brown puts it "Look, you see any of these yahoo's manage to beat Victoria? Now, don't get me wrong, plenty of them may have taken up a gun, but the entire U.S. is full of the graves of people willing to grab a gun. Sure, I'm not a huge fan of everything, but she knows her strategy. Not only did she win Detroit, and do so better than anyone's wildest predictions, but she took the fight to them and made them surrender. If she thinks this works I'm willing to follow her."

A strong statement of support, and one that many would echo. Though Mike goes a bit further. "They talk about Victorian's. But real Victorian's? Well, one thing I know is they love to cause division, and with their army out that's all they can do. Now, I'm not saying that they are plants mind you, but if one or two turned out to be, I wouldn't be surprised."

Bold words, enough to motivate some to counter-protest. Something that has law enforcement worried as on anonymous militiamen put it. "Much as we don't like to admit it, we don't have great responses to this, the usual advise it to let the people fight if they want. We think of riots as something people do against Victorian's, but, sooner or later, the government is going to do something that pisses people off enough to do so, and are going to have to think real hard about their response, especially if it's protesters and counter-protesters fighting. That's a little beyond a bar brawl, but I sure as hell don't want CROW deployed."

In the midst of all of this, perhaps the most sympathetic voices are those of family, looking for lost children. One of the protestors I talked to was Samatha Nassar. She has shown me a picture of a small child. As old and worn as the photo is, the resemblance is there. "I was away when. hey took her, they killed my husband. In the burning ruins, they decided to leave bacon." (She gives a hollow laugh.) "We aren't even religious. And during the liberation of Chicago, I got to show them that I didn't mind dead pigs."

As with many, the vengeance was satisfying but has left her empty. "She was taken I just know it. All I want to do is find her. We have the Garden's ambassador. Why arn't they doing anything about it. Why are they keeping me from even asking where my daughter is!" (Recording ends on a half stopped sob.)

Strong words of condemnation. But the government has repeatedly cited security concerns as a reason for ambassadorial distance. Even so, many are hopeful for some sort of reunion or closure. Which has caused a run at the records office? David Blake, the current manager, explains further.



So the good news is the CCPD kept records. Like, when someone says child smuggling ring, you don't think records room. But the thing about any smuggling ring is that it is a business. Capitalism loves its business. No money was exactly exchanged, but they are shockingly blatant in their talk, take this memo. It was written not long after the Blue Summer

(throat clears)

"Adoption order

2 Indian Children, Age 3-5, female (They mean native there, not actual Indian,who would be considered Asian)
2 Black Children, Age 3-5, female
2 White Children, Age 3-5, female, Must be BB ("BB is their slang for Blond and Blue-Eyed")
2 Asian Children, Age 3-5, female
2 Muslim Children, Age 3-5, female

This one is a high priority. The requestor just got promoted to Colonel. He wants a set and spares and would be grateful to be able to pick them up in one place. He's got others, so he's okay starting these ones older, but wants them matching, so don't pick up one that's obviously way older than the rest.

Also, like no slint-eyed Indians, he wants the American type. If needed we can probably substitute Greeks or Italians for the Muslims, and light skinned-Black for Indian. Just don't be too blatant. We need his friendship. Especially given the thin ice we are one after the help with the riots."

The stamp underneath it says it was fulfilled, with a 'good job'. So casual, business-like.That was 10 little girls stolen. Ten cards with their age, 'adoption location', race, eye color, and hair color. No names. That wasn't important to them. So, for many of those stolen from Chicago, we do have some records."

It gives people hope, but sadly, it's not as useful as you might think. As the description itself admits, the racial classifications are bullshit. Written down based on how a bunch of racist chose to pass off kids to another bunch of racists. So, in order to begin connecting these cards, we'd have to first figure out who was stolen. Sometimes the records have an address it came from, sometimes it's just a neighborhood. Sometimes it's a traffic stop. Or a family 'maliciously loitering'. Other times it's a business that no longer exists, and we have no idea who to ask if it ever did.

Next, we'd have to connect the cards to someone in the Garden. Now, honestly, this one is easy. We know it's a Colonel, we know it was ten girls all brought at once. That's big. We can probably find them with time. But when it's a generic 'blond, blue-eyed age 2" or "Black-haired Asian" who might actually be Italian or mixed-race or whatever they've decided looked Asian today.

And on top of that, the cards weren't always in the best shape when we got them, and preserving them has had to compete with every other historical treasure. Even if we did find the connections, there is no telling how many of them are even alive.



Still many find the explanations unconvincing. "They won't even let us look at the cards. When I came, they first just told me to give up on my girl." Anna Verasal explains. "I had to get my local councilman involved to even get a real response. Even then, they send insulting ones. Look at this, it says blond haired boys, my sons were black-haired, and even they wouldn't be able to fake that. My sons, one two, one four, were both taken together, on the night my husband was killed. I can give them the exact date, time, location and description. But they insist that they are working on it."

While exact details are sketchy, Anna may not be entirely wrong in this. According to an anonymous source, until the defense of Detroit, the primary feeling around the department was that there wasn't a realistic way to reunite the families, and it was best to focus on other priorities. With it suddenly becoming a hot-button issue, the department is scrambling to respond. The records office has denied such charges.

With the "And now they have that Garden ambassador down here. I want to go to him, and ask, where are my boys? Make him look me in the eye and tell me why they aren't home. But they are more interested in pleasing them than in finding our stolen children!" Even so, the government has maintained the need for security for all ambassadors.

Mathers is skeptical of this need. "Sure, fine, we can't go into their suites, but they are keeping us an entire block back. No one even knows where anyone is staying. This isn't for security reasons, is so Johnson can act like Chicago is all lovey-dovey to everyone. Ignore our demands so she can play queen of the lakes, and us peasants should shut up and be quiet."

The Jonhson administration has stated that they are taking protestor requests under consideration and will respond shortly. As of yet, there have been no major attempts to breach the security perimeter, though a few cases of civil disobedience have occurred. But, should things continue, this may become a major test of the Administration's ability to govern in this new world.
 
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How hard would it be to set up a tv network
TV network? Wouldn't think too hard, especially as we did have that extensive trade network before that meant we could get a small amount of almost anything we wanted to, if we could pay. Now that's not the problem. The problem comes in supplying the TVs to access that network. Colour TVs would be basically impossible, especially before the revolt when the Victorians would either shoot you for having them, or shoot you for 'having them' so they could confiscate it for 'disposal'.

Black-and-White TVs are more possible because that's a technology from around when Victorian Retroculture has it's cut off date. The issue there is that you'd need a pretty serious electronics industry to provide them in any real amount. And we already not how 'aggressive' the Victorians were for any type of industry, even for things like steam engines and similar 19th century technology. An electronics industry? You are just begging for the Vickies to come in, raze your town to the ground, shoot everyone and then apply the boot more vigorously to every other settlement nearby.
 
Vox Populi Dispatches
Zombies (Resurrected ghosts)


Andrew's Garden.

Welcome everyone, it is 7 pm Vox Populi Radio Evening Dispatch. Cera Anderson reporting.

A new source of controversy has appeared for a conference already full of controversy, as the rumored Diplomat from Andrew's Garden, now calling themselves the Blue Mountain Farmers, has arrived. While the current government has staked the conference on an absolute willingness to allow any representative into the conference, current diplomatic status and past actions aside, some feel this should not apply in this case.

"Let's be real. They are Victorian's. The place is nothing more than a Victorian base for slaves, and wives. Which are little more than slaves really. Anyone in charge in that place was made so directly by the Victorians and has been willing to tolerate them for years. Do you know what they named their ship? 'Eve's Redemption.' It's an actual Victoria troop transport. We didn't let the Victorians join. Why should we pretend this is any different?"

Those are the words of Mathers Zebedee, a Veteran of the Commonwealth army, honorably discharged after being injured in the leg during the defense of Detroit. "I ain't walking around with a cane so we could make peace and let them walk all over us. I know why the Unionists dispersed too readily, cause the smart ones are already in the government."

While far from a majority, Mather represents a contingent of residents unhappy with the conference. I use residents explicitly, as this group represents a coalition of citizens and non-citizens. As one who asked not to be identified put is. "We moved here because we believed in the Commonwealth and those who stayed in Detroit got in ahead of us. How many more countries who once tried to starve us are going to get in ahead of those who most believed?"

Adding fuel to the fire was the decision to create a parameter around the delegates' lodgings. The government has defended this citing safety concern and the assassinations two years ago, and noting that protestors were allowed to protest around the conference center itself, only the docks and hotel buildings were off-limits.

Marriah Issah explains further. "Since the collapse, community leaders have been seen as the fundamental basis of legitimate government. This stands in contrast to the more bureaucratic, distant leaders of large-scale nations states. For post-collapse nation-states, the leader is expected to be known. Though many are too big for direct knowledge, the selling of yourself as 'local' is vital. Not merely because of the need all leaders have for connection but because non-local leaders are always associated with Victorian (Or California out west) interference.

Ironically this benefitted the Victorian own goals, as it made large scale polities near impossible. What the Commonwealth is currently doing is attempting to transform itself into a large-scale government, without engaging in dictatorial stances. This puts it in a difficult position. Its position as the strongest polity means that it needs room to be concessionary to other polities in order to build a fragile reputation, but has to balance that against the disinterest, and the feelings of disenfranchisement it creates amongst its own population."

So far, the Johnston government has done well on this. Bolstered by her presence in the near-universally popular Burns Government, the victory in Detroit, and her successful forcing of Victoria to the table. Johnson is riding a tidal wave of support and most citizens are willing to follow her lead.

As one Mike Brown puts it "Look, you see any of these yahoo's manage to beat Victoria? Now, don't get me wrong, plenty of them may have taken up a gun, but the entire U.S. is full of the graves of people willing to grab a gun. Sure, I'm not a huge fan of everything, but she knows her strategy. Not only did she win Detroit, and do so better than anyone's wildest predictions, but she took the fight to them and made them surrender. If she thinks this works I'm willing to follow her."

A strong statement of support, and one that many would echo. Though Mike goes a bit further. "They talk about Victorian's. But real Victorian's? Well, one thing I know is they love to cause division, and with their army out that's all they can do. Now, I'm not saying that they are plants mind you, but if one or two turned out to be, I wouldn't be surprised."

Bold words, enough to motivate some to counter-protest. Something that has law enforcement worried as on anonymous militiamen put it. "Much as we don't like to admit it, we don't have great responses to this, the usual advise it to let the people fight if they want. We think of riots as something people do against Victorian's, but, sooner or later, the government is going to do something that pisses people off enough to do so, and are going to have to think real hard about their response, especially if it's protesters and counter-protesters fighting. That's a little beyond a bar brawl, but I sure as hell don't want CROW deployed."

In the midst of all of this, perhaps the most sympathetic voices are those of family, looking for lost children. One of the protestors I talked to was Samatha Nassar. She has shown me a picture of a small child. As old and worn as the photo is, the resemblance is there. "I was away when. hey took her, they killed my husband. In the burning ruins, they decided to leave bacon." (She gives a hollow laugh.) "We aren't even religious. And during the liberation of Chicago, I got to show them that I didn't mind dead pigs."

As with many, the vengeance was satisfying but has left her empty. "She was taken I just know it. All I want to do is find her. We have the Garden's ambassador. Why arn't they doing anything about it. Why are they keeping me from even asking where my daughter is!" (Recording ends on a half stopped sob.)

Strong words of condemnation. But the government has repeatedly cited security concerns as a reason for ambassadorial distance. Even so, many are hopeful for some sort of reunion or closure. Which has caused a run at the records office? David Blake, the current manager, explains further.



So the good news is the CCPD kept records. Like, when someone says child smuggling ring, you don't think records room. But the thing about any smuggling ring is that it is a business. Capitalism loves its business. No money was exactly exchanged, but they are shockingly blatant in their talk, take this memo. It was written not long after the Blue Summer

(throat clears)

"Adoption order

2 Indian Children, Age 3-5, female (They mean native there, not actual Indian,who would be considered Asian)
2 Black Children, Age 3-5, female
2 White Children, Age 3-5, female, Must be BB ("BB is their slang for Blond and Blue-Eyed")
2 Asian Children, Age 3-5, female
2 Muslim Children, Age 3-5, female

This one is a high priority. The requestor just got promoted to Colonel. He wants a set and spares and would be grateful to be able to pick them up in one place. He's got others, so he's okay starting these ones older, but wants them matching, so don't pick up one that's obviously way older than the rest.

Also, like no slint-eyed Indians, he wants the American type. If needed we can probably substitute Greeks or Italians for the Muslims, and light skinned-Black for Indian. Just don't be too blatant. We need his friendship. Especially given the thin ice we are one after the help with the riots."

The stamp underneath it says it was fulfilled, with a 'good job'. So casual, business-like.That was 10 little girls stolen. Ten cards with their age, 'adoption location', race, eye color, and hair color. No names. That wasn't important to them. So, for many of those stolen from Chicago, we do have some records."

It gives people hope, but sadly, it's not as useful as you might think. As the description itself admits, the racial classifications are bullshit. Written down based on how a bunch of racist chose to pass off kids to another bunch of racists. So, in order to begin connecting these cards, we'd have to first figure out who was stolen. Sometimes the records have an address it came from, sometimes it's just a neighborhood. Sometimes it's a traffic stop. Or a family 'maliciously loitering'. Other times it's a business that no longer exists, and we have no idea who to ask if it ever did.

Next, we'd have to connect the cards to someone in the Garden. Now, honestly, this one is easy. We know it's a Colonel, we know it was ten girls all brought at once. That's big. We can probably find them with time. But when it's a generic 'blond, blue-eyed age 2" or "Black-haired Asian" who might actually be Italian or mixed-race or whatever they've decided looked Asian today.

And on top of that, the cards weren't always in the best shape when we got them, and preserving them has had to compete with every other historical treasure. Even if we did find the connections, there is no telling how many of them are even alive.



Still many find the explanations unconvincing. "They won't even let us look at the cards. When I came, they first just told me to give up on my girl." Anna Verasal explains. "I had to get my local councilman involved to even get a real response. Even then, they send insulting ones. Look at this, it says blond haired boys, my sons were black-haired, and even they wouldn't be able to fake that. My sons, one two, one four, were both taken together, on the night my husband was killed. I can give them the exact date, time, location and description. But they insist that they are working on it."

While exact details are sketchy, Anna may not be entirely wrong in this. According to an anonymous source, until the defense of Detroit, the primary feeling around the department was that there wasn't a realistic way to reunite the families, and it was best to focus on other priorities. With it suddenly becoming a hot-button issue, the department is scrambling to respond. The records office has denied such charges.

With the "And now they have that Garden ambassador down here. I want to go to him, and ask, where are my boys? Make him look me in the eye and tell me why they aren't home. But they are more interested in pleasing them than in finding our stolen children!" Even so, the government has maintained the need for security for all ambassadors.

Mathers is skeptical of this need. "Sure, fine, we can't go into their suites, but they are keeping us an entire block back. No one even knows where anyone is staying. This isn't for security reasons, is so Johnson can act like Chicago is all lovey-dovey to everyone. Ignore our demands so she can play queen of the lakes, and us peasants should shut up and be quiet."

The Jonhson administration has stated that they are taking protestor requests under consideration and will respond shortly. As of yet, there have been no major attempts to breach the security perimeter, though a few cases of civil disobedience have occurred. But, should things continue, this may become a major test of the Administration's ability to govern in this new world.
I'll give it a canon. The reaction to the Farmers being included was intense prior to Mary's face splashing across whatever newspaper scooped that headline.

Also, god, y'all are basically shaming me into motivating my lazy ass into updating. :rofl:
 
I'll give it a canon. The reaction to the Farmers being included was intense prior to Mary's face splashing across whatever newspaper scooped that headline.

Also, god, y'all are basically shaming me into motivating my lazy ass into updating. :rofl:
If Sara Johnson was of a nasty mind she might wait a little bit to let the anti-conference tie themselves to the mast of 'no Farmers' before revealing who the ambassador was.
 
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