Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

[4WheelSword]

thread policy Discussion of politics that does not directly relate to the Quest or to Quest votes are banned from hereon out. This thread policy will be enforced by the Moderation team. Do not ignore it.

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

Think the disarmament of FNYC at this point is over as victoria cant really afford to inforce it as they have lose there whole army and there militia that they raised to deal with us and CMD, that to is gone. And they still have to deal with the CMD and they have a lack of food

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Sure, but the discussion was more on what sort of weaponry would FCNY already have in stock from when they were next-door neighbors to a Victoria with existing armies.

 

[uju32]

It really isn't. The reason that stuff can't be easily implemented in today's US is because there's a large and highly active lobbying group that's against it - who draw much of their support from the American right. There's a big left/right divide in being urban/rural, so the Collapse would quite literally have removed much of the popular support for the anti-gun control lobby by dint of that group no longer being part of the union, because there is no union and they don't live in NYC/FCNY. Also, the collapse of much of the US Military-Industrial complex means there's a lot less arms manufacturers throwing money behind anti-gun control groups, which would have a similar degree of chilling effect on their activity.

Like, you'll note that I never suggested anything like flat-out banning handguns - only banning assault rifles*, stringent background checks, and registering guns in private hands. These are all measures that have a certain degree of popular support (especially in places like New York) but haven't been able to be passed specifically because of anti-gun control lobbying.

*To be fair, I did say "banning rifles" without specifying, but I am 99% sure that hunting rifles are not particularly popular/relevant in the middle of a Megacity that doesn't have room for additional stuff without knocking something else down. The only things around to hunt are people and pigeons, and arguing that you need a hunting rifle so you can take potshots at animals on peoples' roofs is going to get you asked some awkward questions by angry folk with bullet holes in their ceiling/walls.

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-The Hudson River is 1.5 miles wide between Manhattan and New Jersey. Disgoverned America, where FCNY is prevented by treaty and not-so-subtle sabre-rattling from expanding into. You could go into Newark over the river by rowboat or on foot over the bridge, buy your weapon, disassemble it, and smuggle it into the city in parts. Wouldn't even need to deal with any gunrunners.

It would be a modern-day Prohibition. And would be about as effective.

The RL NYC has 36,000 officers to 8.4 million people.
If the same proportions hold for a 20 million man FCNY, you're looking at around 90,000 police officers for 20 million people. No National Guard. No Army. No armed customs. With most of the population descended from refugees from Victorian terror, and thus heavily incentivized not to die alone.

You dont have the resources to maintain some sort of dragnet for weapons. And the population is not inclined to let you.

-There are actually strong reasons why FCNY, hobbled by a restrictive treaty, might want to avoid official records of weapon owners/weapon numbers when they have Russia and Victoria peering over their shoulders. Easier to plead incapacity when someone demands you crack down on weapon ownership if no government records exist.

Private records, from deniably private organizations?
That's different. And easier to deniably destroy.

-Modern day NYC firearms laws:

Subject/Law	Long guns	Handguns	Relevant statutes	Notes
Permit to purchase?	Yes	Yes	§ 1-03, § 1-04, §2-03, § 5-01, § 5-25	Pistol Permit and Rifle/Shotgun Permit are prerequisites to purchase handguns and long guns respectively. A separate "Purchase Authorization" is required to purchase a handgun from a dealer, and one may not purchase a handgun more than once every 90 days. One may not purchase a rifle or shotgun more than once every 90 days. Upon purchase of a 5th handgun, residents must show evidence of possession of a gun safe for storage of firearms.
Firearm registration?	Yes	Yes	§ 1-03, § 1-04, §2-03	Registration for all firearms in place.
Owner license required?	Yes	Yes	§ 1-03, § 1-04, §2-03, § 5-01	Owner licenses are required for all guns.
Carry permits required?	Yes	Yes	§ 5-01, § 5-03, § 5-04	Permits are usually only issued to retired LEOs, celebrities, and armed guards. State permits (without an NYC endorsement) and out-of-state permits are not valid for concealed carry in NYC. However, individuals with a New York State Permit that does not have an NYC endorsement may transport a firearm through the city en route to and from locations outside of the city. The firearm must be unloaded and the journey through the city must be continuous and uninterrupted.
Assault weapon law?	Yes	Yes	§ 10-301	More restrictive version of New York's state laws, with a 5-round magazine limit for long guns and 10 for handguns.
NFA weapons restricted?	Yes	Yes	§ 10-301	All NFA weapons are outlawed.
Peaceable Journey laws?	Yes	No	§10-301 i, (1)	A non-resident may be arrested by police for transporting weapons through NYC and then be forced to reference the federal Firearm Owners Protection Act as an affirmative defense to charges of Unlawful Possession of a Weapon. Non-residents of NYC may transit the city with a rifle or shotgun without a permit, provided the weapon is unloaded and the person leaves the city within 24 hours.

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Note that even today, there is no assault weapon ban in NYC.
You need to get a license for the weapon, and there are magazine restrictions, but you can own them, in America's biggest city in peacetime. You can't own heavy weapons, but you can own assault weapons.

With Victoria next door murdering people every year? And no army?
City is going to be clanking in metal.

 

[Slacker]

I'm also going to point out that FCNY here includes, geographically, a lot more land than just what the current-day city owns and rest assured Long Island does *not* share the city's gun restrictions. While yes I'm sure most of Long Island is as densely populated as Brooklyn, that doesn't change the fact that the 4 million people living here now are just going away-or, in a period of incredible social upheaval, they'd be willing to just hand over their firearms. After which, the FCNY government would have a lot of logical reasons to tacitly support an armed population.

 

[me.me.here]

I don't buy this at all.
The structural imperatives of being disallowed by treaty from having even a nominal military means that they are going to be heavily reliant on their law enforcement agencies for any sort of armed response, with a concomitant increase in dual-capability equipment.

Pre-existing precedent from the Old Country means that NYPD patrol officers already have a practice of carrying a backup longarm in their patrol vehicle for which they are qualified, everything from shotguns to selectfire automatics.
Switching from Mossbergs and ARs to the new German hotness and standardizing on it should not generate comment.

As for private use, the anti-militarization crowd are fighting the current of having Victoria committing atrocities less than a hundred miles away in PA.
They'd be just as effective in FCNY as the Right To Bear Arms people are now: noisy, litigous, futile.

Even if they managed to somehow get that kind of thing into law, who would enforce it? How are you going to stop black market ARs flooding in from gunsmiths in Newark across the Hudson to every citizen who disagrees? You end up with something in the mode of Prohibition, where people, including LEOs will brazenly flout the law and hide weapons in their domiciles. Corrosive to societal cohesion, dangerous to the citizens.

Its not that there arent strong reasons to want to regulate firearm access in a metropolis in normal times; there are. But these are not normal times.

FCNY cannot have survived forty years after the Collapse by ignoring public concerns.
I suspect that private ownership of arms is funnelled into membership of officially registered militias and passing some sort of certification. Basically an expansion of the existing RL NYC licensing scheme for owning firearms.

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Poptart was pretty explicit about there being a general lack of FCNY war support.

Legacy of Fear: The Free City had a front-row seat to Victoria's rise to power. From a high view, it's easy to see how Victoria's successes are due entirely to Russia's patronage, but the average person on the street knows them as the superhuman, fate-defying monsters who destroyed the Union and shattered every one of its remnants in turn. Most New Yorkers are possessed of a superstitious fear of the Victorians, and they will not easily countenance a war.

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The idea that "Victoria will mobilize any time you try and militarize" would have absolutely no bleedthrough to ideas like "having lots of military rifles around makes war with Victoria more likely" is pretty ludicrous.

Similarly, the idea that such lobbying groups would be as "noisy, litigous, and futile" as the Right To Bear Arms crowd is a weird take, considering that the Right To Bear Arms/NRA crowd has been a highly successful lobbying group. You're not wrong, but it's definitely not an opinion that would support there being lots of private assault weapons floating around.

Your assertion that there will be black market ARs and such flooding across the Hudson blatantly assumes that Victoria has spent 40 years completely ignoring gunsmiths supplying FCNY, despite that being counter to their strategic aims and their general policy. Would there be people producing and selling black market ARs there - probably, but there being more than maybe a few hundred produced annually is "let me laugh even harder" territory.

Note that even today, there is no assault weapon ban in NYC.
You need to get a license for the weapon, and there are magazine restrictions, but you can own them, in America's biggest city in peacetime. You can't own heavy weapons, but you can own assault weapons.

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This is flat out wrong - your own quote even disagrees, as it says there is in fact an assault weapon law in NYC. Specifically, that it's an even more restrictive version than New York State's law, which is that you can't have one unless you had it before Jan 2013 and registered it by Jan 2014.

 

[SneakyWalrus]

I suspect that private ownership of arms is funnelled into membership of officially registered militias and passing some sort of certification. Basically an expansion of the existing RL NYC licensing scheme for owning firearms.

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There is a certain poetic irony if they're primary method of gun ownership and accumulation of much heavier hardware in the FCNY being in the hands of the assorted militias. The Vics can't complain, because their entire political and military system is based around the militia model, despite them leaning so incredibly heavily on the FCNY to not have a military force in the first place.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

. The Vics can't complain, because their entire political and military system is based around the militia model, despite them leaning so incredibly heavily on the FCNY to not have a military force in the first place.

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The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.-James Madison.

I am proud of New York channeling the spirit of their forefather's and realizing that sometimes, the free citizens must take the uncomfortable and dangerous responsibility of defending their liberties against the Tyrrany of evil men.

Ironically they practice the founder's ideals of citizens defence (Being well armed and Regulated) better then the Victorians (We don't need to explain how they work, they already explained), The ironic part is New York more then likely want to have a real army instead of putting its citizens in danger, echoing the sentiment of the malita being raised in the nations defence in a time of emergency (Witch, as we know, being next to Victoria qualifies as a national emergency.).

This is another brand of Victorian mess up, they put themselves into a corner where they can't disarm New York Cities population because that would cause...ideological problems, and the CMC don't like ideological problems.

Edit: Also not counting Tsar Alexander's plans and the EU's vested interest in keeping New York running.

 

[Random Member]

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.-James Madison.

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[uju32]

Poptart was pretty explicit about there being a general lack of FCNY war support.

The idea that "Victoria will mobilize any time you try and militarize" would have absolutely no bleedthrough to ideas like "having lots of military rifles around makes war with Victoria more likely" is pretty ludicrous.

Similarly, the idea that such lobbying groups would be as "noisy, litigous, and futile" as the Right To Bear Arms crowd is a weird take, considering that the Right To Bear Arms/NRA crowd has been a highly successful lobbying group. You're not wrong, but it's definitely not an opinion that would support there being lots of private assault weapons floating around.

Your assertion that there will be black market ARs and such flooding across the Hudson blatantly assumes that Victoria has spent 40 years completely ignoring gunsmiths supplying FCNY, despite that being counter to their strategic aims and their general policy. Would there be people producing and selling black market ARs there - probably, but there being more than maybe a few hundred produced annually is "let me laugh even harder" territory.


This is flat out wrong - your own quote even disagrees, as it says there is in fact an assault weapon law in NYC. Specifically, that it's an even more restrictive version than New York State's law, which is that you can't have one unless you had it before Jan 2013 and registered it by Jan 2014.

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-I think you are misreading that. Legacy of Fear says [Most New Yorkers are possessed of a superstitious fear of the Victorians, and they will not easily countenance a war.]. Not [They will not fight under any circumstances] or [Will not arm themselves]. When terrified of predators lurking outside your property, you don't go outside at night; that doesnt mean you will give up your rifle, or stop stop buying ammunition.

Fear does not make you disarm. Often quite the opposite. Else the whole treaty prohibiting New York from having a military would not be necessary.
Do remember that this was the canon NYC reaction to Victoria:

To refocus the population on external troubles, the reactionaries push for the Confederation to annex New York. Given the ongoing chaos and now-open Russian assistance, the state is incapable of offering meaningful resistance. "Father," Dimitri promptly nearly chokes the leadership with their leash, informing them that they can in no way handle absorbing New York City. (Also, the Tsar instructed that it remain free from the increasingly-unpredictable reactionaries in the Confederation, as New York is for various reasons of international interest and its annexation by glorified terrorists would prompt a massive international response.) They do give NYC to Puerto Rico; Puerto Rico immediately says, "no thanks, we can't administrate that from all the way over here," the City itself goes, "also, you never actually set foot in this city and thus can get fucked," and the Free City of New York is born.

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Kinda suggestive.

-Also note that Poptart canonized this Omake about a bunch of Vic sympathizers in FCNY:

First one of these I've ever written. Please recommend any necessary edits...
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Meanwhile in the Free City of New York…
=============================================================================

[Article from The New York Times]


Hell's Kitchen Raid Ends in Shootout, Five Arrested in Victorian Terror Plot

By Suzanne Dutton and Dean Gilmore
December 29, 2074​

The residents of Hell's Kitchen were rudely woken to the sound of gunfire on Saturday morning after a police counterterror operation ended in a violent shootout with militant Victorian sympathizers.

Three suspects were arrested following a pre-dawn apartment complex raid by NYPD Emergency Service Unit against a suspected Victorian terror cell located in Midtown Manhattan, with an additional two other suspects currently being treated for gunshot wounds after instigating a gunfight with NYPD officers.

The shootout lasted approximately five minutes, with bullets tearing through the walls into the adjoining rooms. Thankfully, despite the damage, no other civilians or officers were injured in the incident.

"It was chaos," said Doris Mosely, one of the apartment's tenants. "For a moment, I thought I was going to die in the crossfire."

At a City Hall news conference, Police Commissioner Bob Stark, appearing alongside Mayor Bruce Tomlinson, announced that the five men had been planning to launch a series of attacks on multiple government and religious centers, with St. Patrick's Cathedral and the Temple Emanu-El among the target list. "Plans found at the scene also included timetables and dates of mass public gatherings," said Mr. Stark, "with the intent of inflicting maximum casualties to the civilian populace."

In addition to several pistols and assorted assault rifles, multiple napalm firebombs and pipe bombs lined with nails for shrapnel were found in the apartment by NYPD bomb disposal teams, as well as three incomplete pressure cooker bombs, according to a law enforcement official.

The five suspects, who have not yet been named by NYPD at this time due to reasons of security, had been under surveillance for the past three years by NYPD Intelligence Bureau after their extremist behavior and public remarks supporting the Northern Confederation were reported by several of their co-workers. "The five suspects had been witnessed discussing the possibility of forcing New York City to accept Victorian superiority over the Eastern Seaboard by targeting religious and government areas in order to weaken the Free City's resolve." Mr. Stark said. "Additional papers uncovered at the scene detailed their intent to coincide their attacks around the same period the Confederation was to begin its military operations against the Commonwealth of Free Cities government in Chicago."

The suspects had begun preparing their plans over the course of the past year. NYPD officials reported that they had been frequent visitors to pro-Victorian blogs and Darknet web forums containing bomb-making discussions. NYPD later recorded the suspects making several trips to local hardware stores, kitchen appliance retailers, furniture stores and junkyards in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Staten Island six months prior to the arrests as they procured the necessary components for their explosive devices.

A spokesperson for the district attorney's office has stated that Acting Manhattan District Attorney Nikki Migliorini has no intention of backing down from her late predecessor's original campaign of "zero compromise" against pro-Victorian sympathizers and subversive elements. "New York must and will guard against all enemies that seek its subjugation, from within and without."

The three suspects currently remain under arrest on charges of criminal possession of weapons in the first degree as a crime of terrorism as well as numerous other charges, according to police officials, while the two injured suspects remained hospitalized. The district attorney's office has stated that the suspects' names will be released to the public later this week.

===
AN: Christ I need an editor...

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Three observations of note:

• Senior elected politicians are elected on platforms of campaigning against Vic sympathizers. Fear of war is not the same thing as paralysis.
• There are some restrictions on weapons, judging by the framing of the weapons charges. I presume at least bombs are illegal.
• If random berks radicalizing themselves on the Internet can lay their hands on automatic weapons, FCNY is awash in the things. Note how they have to do research on the Internet to learn how to make bombs, but have absolutely no problems procuring automatic weapons.

-I don't really see it as a weird take.
The percentage of US gun-containing households has fluctuated over the course of the latter twentieth century and early twenty first, but has generally decreased, currently hovering at around 37%, from 49% in 1963. Support for stricter gun laws is back up to 64%, from a low of 44% in 2011.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

The places where guns are permitted have similarly decreased; teenagers used to bring rifles to school in parts of this country within living memory, and machine guns used to be legal in the early 1930s.

Gun laws have gotten increasingly stricter.
Background checks, school zone restrictions, Title II weapon restrictions,non-metallic weapon bans.....it might seem that nothing has changed, but the US social and legal landscape with regards to firearms is very different than it used to be.

And that's in the face of the NRA and it's boosters.

-If Victoria could materially impede the production and trade in small arms by gunsmiths, their entire control of the United States would be much easier. They kinda have to settle for messing up the flow of raw materials in the hinterland and preventing actual domestic mass production, which is kinda difficult in areas with coastal access.

We were also told that Victoria avoids acting in the roughly hundred mile/kilometer radius of FCNY, presumably to avoid overtly embarassing Alex, or triggering a response from FCNY's international backers.

Plus, it bears noting that it would be simplicity itself for a ship coming from South America to dock in FCNY to traffic automatic weapons to a dealer in New Jersey, by the simple expedient of parking offshore and moving those weapons and ammo ashore by boat. If the demand is there.
Crazy Hassans Used (Item) Emporium might actually be a thing in New Jersey.

-

This is flat out wrong - your own quote even disagrees, as it says there is in fact an assault weapon law in NYC. Specifically, that it's an even more restrictive version than New York State's law, which is that you can't have one unless you had it before Jan 2013 and registered it by Jan 2014.

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Ugh. My apologies. Dunno how I misread that in the middle of the afternoon.

But my point remains.
Nassau and Suffolk County did not have as restrictive rules as NYC, and would have represented close to a third of FCNY's original population.
Then there's the refugees from the rest of NY, or Connecticut, and the rest of the NY Statistical Area.

With Victoria invading NY State, and showing up on the borders of Brooklyn, the city would have literally been awash in weapons.
And taking those back in the aftermath with only a police force would be....difficult.

 

[rikalous]

-I think you are misreading that. Legacy of Fear says [Most New Yorkers are possessed of a superstitious fear of the Victorians, and they will not easily countenance a war.]. Not [They will not fight under any circumstances] or [Will not arm themselves]. When terrified of predators lurking outside your property, you don't go outside at night; that doesnt mean you will give up your rifle, or stop stop buying ammunition.

Fear does not make you disarm. Often quite the opposite. Else the whole treaty prohibiting New York from having a military would not be necessary.

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I submit that a fear of someone who's made a habit of showing up to kill you whenever you have too many weapons will absolutely make you disarm. What are you even gonna do with a gun, shoot one fanatic in the invincible army before three more leap over his corpse to kill you and your whole family? Safer to avoid the taboo actions that draw the bogeyman's attention.

 

[uju32]

I submit that a fear of someone who's made a habit of showing up to kill you whenever you have too many weapons will absolutely make you disarm. What are you even gonna do with a gun, shoot one fanatic in the invincible army before three more leap over his corpse to kill you and your whole family? Safer to avoid the taboo actions that draw the bogeyman's attention.

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-Your armament has only a secondary influence on the Vics showing up to kill you and your town; the Vics helped Toledo Joe train 3 divisions of light infantry militia, remember? To a better standard than their own domestic militia, at that.
What seems to matter is whether they feel threatened by your ideology or your economic/industrial power, and FCNY's existence already does that.

FCNY had a front seat for Victoria's campaigns along the seaboard, so they are well aware of that.

-What you are going to do with a gun? Is not get shot down in your own home without taking someone with you. Is not go gently into that good night. New York has a LOT of people who fled from Vic-sponsored violence, or are descended from people who fled from Vic violence. That sort of sentiment will be quite popular. In an urban defence scenario, even Quality 0 militia fighting out of fortifications and familiar territory will bleed you.

It's not entirely a rational cost-benefit calculation, but its not actually stupid.

The Vics were mostly light infantry, remember?One division of WW2 tanks, three CMC divisions armed with amphibious APCs with armor that can be penned by heavy machinegun fire, let alone RPGs. No proper tanks, no artillery, no navy, only technicals. No tactical radios, no NVG gear, no bulletproof vests, no helmets. No logistics support.

They eschew most of the usual force multipliers that allow seriousface militaries to clown irregular forces.

They probably couldn't actually capture New York City from an armed and organized populace before we showed up, especially if FCNY chooses to evacuate the mainland, blow the bridges and retreat onto Long Island. They can just trash it's economy by shelling Manhattan with mortars and airstrikes, and attacking it's port with aircraft.

By the time the Vis get back on their feet again, it's going to be questionable if they will be able to do even that, if the New Yorkers leverage the lack of treaty limits to arm up. Air defense missiles, lasers and C-RAM were probably already on order as soon as the first reports of our obliterating the Vic army made it out to the outside world.

Doesn't mean they will suddenly be capable of invading Victoria.
Just they will be much better capable of defending their heartland, allowing them to expand down the Eastern seaboard into New Jersey and past Philadelphia towards Maryland and Virginia.

 

[Ugolino]

I suppose the question is "what does the person by person response of a cowed, beaten populace that as a whole is unwilling to commit to organized warfare against a foe that terrifies and inspires loathing in equally measure look like, based on historical precedent?".

I suspect individual firearms are still a thing, especially because of the relative distance from the subject of hate.

 

[Slacker]

Let's be clear as a fairly typical New Yorker who would be living through all of *gestures* this, my reaction to the Vics would be come and fucking dance if you're so hard and that attitude would be shared by 95% of the population. Obviously it makes sense that FCNY has no way to meaningfully project offensive power anywhere but if these Nazi assholes decided to try and dance they'd drown in blood. And even our right wingers would feel that way. They're gun nuts more than racist if that makes sense.

 

[uju32]

I suppose the question is "what does the person by person response of a cowed, beaten populace that as a whole is unwilling to commit to organized warfare against a foe that terrifies and inspires loathing in equally measure look like, based on historical precedent?".

I suspect individual firearms are still a thing, especially because of the relative distance from the subject of hate.

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Judging by historical precedent, it's to stockpile as much weaponry as possible against future need.
The Poles did a lot of that in WW2.

 

[Ugolino]

Let's be clear as a fairly typical New Yorker who would be living through all of *gestures* this, my reaction to the Vics would be come and fucking dance if you're so hard and that attitude would be shared by 95% of the population. Obviously it makes sense that FCNY has no way to meaningfully project offensive power anywhere but if these Nazi assholes decided to try and dance they'd drown in blood. And even our right wingers would feel that way. They're gun nuts more than racist if that makes sense.

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Consider that Russians have spent years murdering anyone that shows a shred of spine or competence with more or less complete impunity, because their Victorian catspaws definitely didn't do most of their own dirty work.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Judging by historical precedent, it's to stockpile as much weaponry as possible against future need.
The Poles did a lot of that in WW2.

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And considering the Poles are still alive, battered and the reason the EU exists as a functional entity, They must have learned something from them.

 

[rikalous]

-Your armament has only a secondary influence on the Vics showing up to kill you and your town; the Vics helped Toledo Joe train 3 divisions of light infantry militia, remember? To a better standard than their own domestic militia, at that.

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Look, I'm not talking about Toledo or about American settlements in the generic, I'm talking specifically about Free City New York and more specifically about this bit from chargen:

Disarmed: Victoria may have let you live, but they have not let you arm yourself. Whenever you have tried, they have mobilized.

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When New York gets too many guns, Victoria gets set to punch it in the face. The Vics turning around and arming up Toledo or whatever doesn't exactly offset that unless you move from New York to Toledo. All I'm doing here is adding that to the wording in the Legacy of Fear disadvantage about "superstitious fear" and "superhuman, fate-defying monsters".

 

[Slacker]

Consider that Russians have spent years murdering anyone that shows a shred of spine or competence with more or less complete impunity, because their Victorian catspaws definitely didn't do most of their own dirty work.

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Except that canonically Russia didn't want to fuck with NYC for a host of reasons and peepee slapped Victoria when they tried. So that implies, correspondingly, that there weren't Spetsanz marauding across Midtown. You kill the Golden Goose that way.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

You kill the Golden Goose that way.

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Dispite everything...the Power of New York's Strategic positioning, economic abilities and the fact it is supposedly an open port. Stayed the wrath of terror.

Like Hong Kong before it...there are reasons to keep it alive.

 

[uju32]

Look, I'm not talking about Toledo or about American settlements in the generic, I'm talking specifically about Free City New York and more specifically about this bit from chargen:

When New York gets too many guns, Victoria gets set to punch it in the face. The Vics turning around and arming up Toledo or whatever doesn't exactly offset that unless you move from New York to Toledo. All I'm doing here is adding that to the wording in the Legacy of Fear disadvantage about "superstitious fear" and "superhuman, fate-defying monsters".

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I think you are seriously misreading that.
That says that they are not allowed to arm, which for a citystate means to organize or maintain an army. No heavy weapons, no dedicated military. When their police force begins to look like a proxy army, the Vics saber rattle.

Civilian ownership of firearms is not the FCNY government. Hence loophole.

Note that FCNY still have an armed police force, and that it's canon for this quest that there are enough weapons in the city that random berks radicalized over the Internet can source automatic weapons for terror attacks.
Which points at a BIG pool of civilian owned firearms.

Hell, even your quote makes it clear that FCNY will periodically test their limits.
Their fear of the Vics, and unwillingness to risk war does not translate to meekly keeping their heads down and trusting in the Vics forbearance.

 

[Slacker]

Dispite everything...the Power of New York's Strategic positioning, economic abilities and the fact it is supposedly an open port. Stayed the wrath of terror.

Like Hong Kong before it...there are reasons to keep it alive.

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And if you don't think whoever wound up in charge of FCNY was exactly aware of that I have a bridge to sell you. Actually probably not, it's a national strategic asset now.

I guarantee you the new government figured out exactly to what limit they could screw with Victoria and stopped just short of that line. And as has been said elsewhere, ideologically Victoria can't object to private firearm ownership. Hell they probably thought it'd backfire on FCNY, because conservatives think everyone left of Ronald Reagan hates guns and doesn't realize how plenty of leftists feel about them. So I'm sure there are all sorts of regulations about use and safety and training and all sorts of things, but actual ownership laws are extremely permissive.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Actually probably not, it's a national strategic asset now.

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I have been having trouble rationalizing how New York can continue trading with the rest of America's former allies even if they are a stones throw away from total destruction, one false move, one misheard word could ruin New Yorks already tense position.

I am I the only one who's thinkin' that Victoria tried a false flag operation at least once to get rid of NYC with someone's blessing in Alexander's chain of command (Say an Oligarch who thinks owning NYC would make him rich and all that). And failing due to the efforts of the NYPD.

If nothing else...someone made a movie like that in this crazy world.

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

because conservatives think everyone left of Ronald Reagan hates guns and doesn't realize how plenty of leftists feel about them

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Oi. There's a thread policy about this. And seriously, could we just generally stop with the blanket statements? They're not helpful for anything, least of all making your point sound credible.

 

[RoboRenee]

If nothing else...someone made a movie like that in this crazy world.

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That reminds me: what is Hollywood like? Has that been said somewhere?

I would assume the technical term is "fucked" but Russia might appreciate having it as a cut-out for propaganda so there might have been a revival of sorts. Even if there was though, there kind of has to be a chunk of time where Hollywood is out of commission and even afterwards it cannot have the same market share. So has anyone else stepped up to dominate film as an industry? If so, who? If not, what does the international film market look like?

 

[Sir_Travelsalot]

That reminds me: what is Hollywood like? Has that been said somewhere?

I would assume the technical term is "fucked" but Russia might appreciate having it as a cut-out for propaganda so there might have been a revival of sorts. Even if there was though, there kind of has to be a chunk of time where Hollywood is out of commission and even afterwards it cannot have the same market share. So has anyone else stepped up to dominate film as an industry? If so, who? If not, what does the international film market look like?

Click to shrink...

We are officially in the best/worst timeline. Bollywood is all major cinema has left.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

So has anyone else stepped up to dominate film as an industry? If so, who? If not, what does the international film market look like?

Click to shrink...

A single phrase may answer your question on that Bollywood.

Edit Ninja'd

If you look into the Omakes you can see one of my attempt at Making American Anime ala Disney, I think its still there with new studios and different faces.

Yep...Hollywood will suffer, but it will still remain.