Voting is open
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

THE SYMBOLISM MUST BE ENFORCED!!

+1 to T R I C E N T E N N I A L G A N G gang!!!
 
I know the vote is on DOI , but since we discussing Alexander ire, should we also talk about what our peace talk goals and aims are ?

Since our success there is also going to impact our legitimacy and diplomatic status, and lastly Alexander fury ?
 
I know the vote is on DOI , but since we discussing Alexander ire, should we also talk about what our peace talk goals and aims are ?

Since our success there is also going to impact our legitimacy and diplomatic status, and lastly Alexander fury ?
With the peace talk our most pressing concern will be free movement of commerce and ships through the waterways. If Europe can push even a few shipments of industrial tooling to us via the waterways we can bootstrap ourselves much faster for example.

The bare minimum we should accept is armistice, freedom of navigation/commerce through the waterways, and exchange of prisoners. Reparations if applicable would be extra gravy.
 
Or, hell, it'll ratchet tension something fierce but its not like we could stop a boomer from tossing a few nuke-tipped cruise missiles from the East Coast and the resources required to do that are miniscule by the standards of a superpower. The US rising again would be a deathblow to his precarious world order and right now we have no friends or anyone to really care.
Yeah, but if Alexander starts throwing around nuclear first strikes, all his enemies invest heavily in nuclear deterrents of their own, they get trigger happy for fear of having their weapons blown up on the ground... sooner or later a nuke flies by accident or because someone figures they can gamble on a decapitation strike taking out Alexander personally.

Especially since Alexander will be setting the precedent that he's using nuclear attacks not even to destroy powerful enemy armies or anything, but to "abort" a nation-state that might eventually become some kind of indirect threat in twenty or thirty years, probable well after Alexander himself is dead! No one can feel even slightly safe after shit like that happens.

Nuclear weaponry doesn't really favor a global hegemon unless they can physically monopolize the nuclear arsenal. It favors a multipolar world of Great Powers with enough nuclear arsenal that you'd have to be an utter lunatic to attack them... except that a multipolar nuclear world becomes very unstable if all the various powers start getting trigger-happy or using their nukes in war.
 
[X] Keep it secret, keep it safe. You're already enough of a target, as a Revivalist state. You don't need more reason for Alexander to put a kill order on you.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Oct 11, 2019 at 8:25 AM, finished with 206 posts and 120 votes.
 
Changing my vote since I think I prefer the secrecy option but tell NY now choice.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
If you publicly unveil that you hold the Declaration of Independence and reap the Legitimacy gains that ensue, you do in fact move up on Alexander's shit list. It moves you from, "Troublesome state that gave Victoria a lot of trouble," to, "the whole purpose of this exercise is to prevent somebody from reuniting the United States and these fuckers are flashing relics of the USA while expanding and integrating new territory."
Thank you for the clarification.
I am aware Alexander has to prioritize. What I'm arguing is that if we move too aggressively, he will prioritize us. Sure, China or someone else is probably going to make a move while he's distracted, and that'll be painful for him, but if he decides it's worth it, we're boned.

And I also completely agree that the path down the Mississippi is something we could use Legitimacy for, and so we should probably announce we have the Declaration before trying to push south. But we're not going to be trying to move southwards in the immediate future, so that's not a reason to make our move now. Again, I am not disputing we should announce that we have the Declaration in the near future. I am simply saying that this is not a good time.
-We wiped out the Victorian field army. We broadcast it on international TV.
We have diplomatic teams out there in the wider world, forcing his diplomats to scramble to attempt to squelch us.
The die is already cast.

The primary factors that govern whether he has the resources to prioritize us are well outside our control.
Indeed, the only way we can affect those factors is by modifying our Legitimacy to the outside world, which will lead to public pressure from those nations that actually did remember the US sorta fondly. At least in comparison to Russia.

Legitimacy also helps our attempts to exchanging foreign embassies.
Which is important for trade, and getting the Commies fully linked back into the international information market. Making it much less attractice to attempt to pull shit on us and blame it on "unknowns".

Do remember that the Declaration was a bonus find on a 99 dice roll. It was never likely to be a cause of a major setback.
Future complications yes, but not major setback.
Even if we don't bring NCR in, I want to do a coordinated reveal with FCNY on the Tricentennial.
Bad idea.
You're jostling for attention in the news cycle at the same time that California is about to go hot.


No see, the problem is that one agent does not have a reliable realistic way of keeping track of a specific object we don't want found and that can potentially be stored in just about any arbitrary climate-controlled building*.
Its not one agent though, innit?
It's an agent, or an agent team backed by the full might of the Russian intelligence apparatus. Including overhead coverage by recon satellite and possibly HALE (High Altitude Long Endurance) UAVs like the Global Observer drone.

We really aren't in the place to do anything if they parked a loitering drone at flight level 120, like the US used to do to the Soviet Union with the U2; nothing in our current arsenal would reach it, and even if we could, drones are expendable.

And we are a third world country thats still struggling to comfortably feed itself. There are no arbitrary climate-controlled buildings in our territory. There are cold-chain storage depots for vaccines, possibly some ICU units with lim, sites for pharmaceutical manufacture, and some sites for the cottage industry manufacture of early infotech.

But there isn't exactly a facility for storing or restoring something like this that can just blend into the nonexistent industrial hum of the Commonwealth.
Bear in mind that the Commonwealth does have a concept of military secrecy and internal security. It's entirely probable that there are shipments of bottled nitrogen being produced (it's not hard to compress) and shipped to undisclosed locations. Or to several such locations. And the Declaration can be moved, perhaps to a site in our large rural hinterland where random spies would not normally have occasion to go, and to which some of our archivists have "disappeared" without telling anyone where they went.

I mean, I'm not saying this kind of security is unbreakable. But it's just... not hard... to level things up to the point where it is genuinely challenging to find such a small and inert object that a national government doesn't want found. It would take time, and resources. And there's a risk of accidentally exposing your existing spy networks when they go digging for information like "hey, so who's been shipping around bottled nitrogen lately" after the local equivalent of the FBI has already established that asking that question without a damn good reason puts you on their watch list.

If the Russians actually have good intelligence penetration of our territory (not a given), it's entirely possible that Alexander IV would prefer to let the Declaration be, rather than seeking it out and destroying it in a way that would make it obvious to us that Russian spies had done the dirty deed and that we needed to start hunting down and rolling up his networks.
-I think you vastly overestimate our ability to conceal a facility from satellite or drone overflight or just ELINT.
Even modern public source imaging can be beyond belief, let alone whatever the military have.
Your consumer DJI Phantom 4 drone has a range of 5km for example, and it costs 1500 dollars.

-It really is hard. For items that require specialty care like a three hundred year old relic, there's all sorts of breadcrumbs.
Just the security force that will be necessary to guard the place will leave a trail a mile wide. And it bears remembering that we still don't know how Russian Special Forces managed to take out Cheyenne Mountain in the middle of Colorado.

You try to set up an isolated facility in the countryside for a HVT, there's a good chance you are condemning your staff to star in a horror movie.

TL DR
Attempted security by obscurity is generally a terrible idea. Not when people are looking.

Right now, a succession of airstrikes hitting around Chicago and maybe Detroit, flown out of Victorian territory by long range stealth aircraft, could pretty easily cripple the Commonwealth's ability to make war or grow economically. If we integrated a very large number of friendly revivalist states scattered over an area of the Midwest 2-3 times larger, the sheer number of significant targets and the physical extent of the territory would make it harder for Russia to squash us without doing things they have historically avoided doing (like actually deploying Russian ground troops in large numbers on North American soil).
Other than Alaska which probably "petitioned" to rejoin the Russian Empire, they have no forces on the continent.
.... You way too optimistic. With the kind of hologram tech we seen, airborne lasers are a thing. Even with current PGMs, a squadron of B1 can work over 50 targets, considerably more once you consider unlike Serbia, we don't have the machine tools or trade networks to rebuild. Or any effective air defence network against current airforces.
The problem there is that they risk getting stuck in the same game of whackamole Victoria has been playing.
Creating more hostile states by attempting to destroy one, just like ISIS spawned out of the Iraqi insurgent groups of the mid-2000s.
Russia has been deliberately conservative about the public use of force for a reason.


Also, unless we invest AP in coordinating the move with Cali, revealing the relic during Cali revolt will not be as effective PR wise for us and might draw steam away from California support after.
How? What is the scenario here? California starts revolting and we make a statement along the lines of "We support our brothers and sisters in California declaring their independence, also we just found the Declaration of Independence what auspicious timing and a sign of good luck." Is someone going to go "well I was going to help California, but now that Chicago has found the declaration, guessse I won't anymore? "
There is only so much oxygen in the international news cycle.

Compare and contrast the neonazi attack on a Jewish temple in Germany on Yom Kippur this week to the coverage of the one on the New Zealand mosque. The New Zealand attack happened in something of a lull in international news.
The latest neonazi attack happened in the middle of the final Brexit countdown, impeachment hearings in the US, and Turkey invading the Kurds.

Well then maybe we should coordinate with them next turn. It's hardly impossible now that we have a sizeable international diplomatic presence and potential intermediaries, especially if New York is quietly on-side and prepared to act as a diplomatic intermediary.
The Commonwealth of Free Cities, a three year old nation, just managed to embarass the Russian and global intelligence services by keeping a significant Old World military capability under wraps until it could employ it in a crushingly decisive manner. And now, having drawn the attention of every global or Russian intel weenie with a North America desk, you want us to attempt to run an intelligence operation under their nose, to a nationstate that they have kept under their lens for forty years.

And you want to use NYC as an intermediary, who we suspect reports officially or unofficially to multiple European intelligence agencies.
Right after they, FCNY, publicly recognize us in defiance of Alexander's wishes.
Do you not see a problem with this?
But they would compliment each other in the media cycle. California is rebelling and the rising power in the Midwest is in full support for them, and reveals a legacy artifact to hold up as a symbol, and then FCNY gets in on the action by confirming the documents legitimacy and also speaking in support of the NCR(I trust them to understand what we're doing). That would be a massive PR coup.
No they won't. Look at the news today.
Mr Trump's daily crimes are drowning out the lesser crimes and misdemeanors of his cabinet.

Secretary Perry creating an AI Office in the Department of Energy at the same time his wife is invested in companies that would benefit. Or Transport Secretary Elaine Chao granting special treatment to Kentucky grants beneficial to her husband Senator Mitch McConnell's political career. Or Secretary Carson and his family's breaches of nepotism rules. Or Secretary DeVos violating court orders against collecting student loan debts from the victims of a for profit college scam.

Any one of which would have been a major scandal in a clean administration.
Too many things happening just means nothing get proper attention.


Given our current resources and an unlikely ability to improve them rapidly, the resources necessary to burn our shit down are fairly small. We're talking a few squadrons of MiGs to do AtA, some SEAD planes, and then a few dozen BUFFs loaded with incendiaries. I know Russia has limited resources but even so they're a hegemon. Vulnerable doesn't even begin to describe us right now.
Unless technology has drastically improved, there's no way any of those MiGs or SEAD aircraft can base out of Elmendorf AFB up in Alaska.
And Victoria is an active warzone that's awash in weapons. Not a place to base several billion dollars worth of aircraft. A raiding team that crosses the wire could wipe out entire squadrons on the ground, like the USMC and Puerto Rico Air National Guard can tell you from experience.

A couple 81mm or 60mm mortars could do even worse. Or a loitering munition.

Full court press would wreck us.
But Alexander was unwilling to commit his airforce to resupplying the Vics during their last stand in front of the world press. He's not going to start dropping airstrikes on the Commies all of a sudden. Declaration or not.

Or, hell, it'll ratchet tension something fierce but its not like we could stop a boomer from tossing a few nuke-tipped cruise missiles from the East Coast and the resources required to do that are miniscule by the standards of a superpower. The US rising again would be a deathblow to his precarious world order and right now we have no friends or anyone to really care. Its not like we're any of the big players.
Given the number of nuclear states and nuclear breakout states in this Brave New World, this is not a strategy that helps the Imperial Russian Empire.
Especially since we know, and they know, they didn't recover all the US stockpile of special weapons or materiel. Even nationstates that can't build ICBMs and cruise missiles can stick a gun-type device in a container ship and send it to St Petersburg or Vladivostok Port by commercial shipping.

Or just get with the sarin brewing.
You really dont want opponents with nationstate resources employing asymmetrical warfare tactics.
 
You're jostling for attention in the news cycle at the same time that California is about to go hot.
The Tricentennial is six months before California goes hot. Unless literally nothing else of interest is going on anywhere else in the world for all six months, a fluff piece about someone finding/restoring the Declaration of Independence is not going to be sticking around in the news cycle that long.

Finding the DOI isn't a recurring event - it happens once, and then maybe gets a callback when FCNY starts efforts to restore it. Plus, it's not actually all that big of a deal globally - the people that are really invested in USA symbols are those who are currently in third world living conditions and thus not major drivers of the news cycle. It's not going to fill up the news like political rumblings in Pre-Collapse US gov't or major economic disruptions like Brexit would, because unlike Pre-Collapse US or current day Britain/EU, North American successor states aren't important on the global scale.
 
The Tricentennial is six months before California goes hot. Unless literally nothing else of interest is going on anywhere else in the world for all six months, a fluff piece about someone finding/restoring the Declaration of Independence is not going to be sticking around in the news cycle that long.

Finding the DOI isn't a recurring event - it happens once, and then maybe gets a callback when FCNY starts efforts to restore it. Plus, it's not actually all that big of a deal globally - the people that are really invested in USA symbols are those who are currently in third world living conditions and thus not major drivers of the news cycle. It's not going to fill up the news like political rumblings in Pre-Collapse US gov't or major economic disruptions like Brexit would, because unlike Pre-Collapse US or current day Britain/EU, North American successor states aren't important on the global scale.
That also means it's impact gets reduced...

I willing to wait one turn for the Tricentennial reveal but it's diplomatic impact on our surroundings needs to be considered .


The Defender of the Midwest now reveals it has protected the Declaration of Independence. Do you think the representatives at the Midwest conference will now be more willing to work with us to build up industry ?

With the peace talk our most pressing concern will be free movement of commerce and ships through the waterways. If Europe can push even a few shipments of industrial tooling to us via the waterways we can bootstrap ourselves much faster for example.

The bare minimum we should accept is armistice, freedom of navigation/commerce through the waterways, and exchange of prisoners. Reparations if applicable would be extra gravy.

Will Russia accept those terms ?
 
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[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.
 
[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

Fuck you, Russia. Fuck you, Victoria.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you. As much as I would like to announce to the whole world that we have the declaration of Independence now is not a good time.
 
Do remember that the Declaration was a bonus find on a 99 dice roll. It was never likely to be a cause of a major setback.
Future complications yes, but not major setback.
Do you REALLY think @PoptartProdigy isn't the sort of person who's quite capable of giving us, on a critical success roll or its equivalent, an item with the potential to backfire if handled incorrectly?

"Here, have this magical sword. It can cut anything. Don't drop it on your foot."

"But we got the magical sword on a crit! Surely it wouldn't hurt us?"

Not a good argument for dropping the sword on one's foot.

Its not one agent though, innit?
It's an agent, or an agent team backed by the full might of the Russian intelligence apparatus. Including overhead coverage by recon satellite and possibly HALE (High Altitude Long Endurance) UAVs like the Global Observer drone.

We really aren't in the place to do anything if they parked a loitering drone at flight level 120, like the US used to do to the Soviet Union with the U2; nothing in our current arsenal would reach it, and even if we could, drones are expendable.
[sigh]

Oh for fuck's sake.

YES, the Russians have all sorts of ungodly surveillance capability. That does not reliably translate into them being able to find a single piece of paper in a box in a building that happens to have a fairly reliable electrical power supply.

And we are a third world country thats still struggling to comfortably feed itself. There are no arbitrary climate-controlled buildings in our territory. There are cold-chain storage depots for vaccines, possibly some ICU units with lim, sites for pharmaceutical manufacture, and some sites for the cottage industry manufacture of early infotech.
We have electricity, in patches. We can if nothing else put the Declaration in a building running of a coal-fired heater and generator to keep the temperature in a limited range around room temperature. It's just... not that hard. Even a struggling Third World country can manage small-scale things like that if the government really wants to.

And yes, that's not good enough as a set of storage conditions to stop a 300-year-old document from deteriorating. But it's no WORSE than the conditions the Declaration's apparently been under for the past couple of decades either, so if we're seriously worried about Alexander being omniscient enough to find it quickly in a matter of a few months even when he has no pressing need to try, we can accept mediocre storage condition as the price of security through obscurity.

I should point out that the US wanted very very badly to find Osama bin Laden for several years, and it nonetheless took several years to do the job. The Declaration won't be a target of even that level of 'man'-hunt since it hasn't personally pissed in Alexander's Cheerios to that extent. Given that the Russians have no more, and arguably less, presence on the ground in the American Midwest than the US had in Afghanistan and Pakistan during the period... I don't expect them to be able to just snap their fingers and get the job done.

There is only so much oxygen in the international news cycle.

Compare and contrast the neonazi attack on a Jewish temple in Germany on Yom Kippur this week to the coverage of the one on the New Zealand mosque. The New Zealand attack happened in something of a lull in international news.
The latest neonazi attack happened in the middle of the final Brexit countdown, impeachment hearings in the US, and Turkey invading the Kurds.
The New Zealand attack also killed fifty people, whereas the recent shooting killed two.

I think you sometimes neglect obvious alternative explanations in favor of your own narratives.

The Commonwealth of Free Cities, a three year old nation, just managed to embarass the Russian and global intelligence services by keeping a significant Old World military capability under wraps until it could employ it in a crushingly decisive manner. And now, having drawn the attention of every global or Russian intel weenie with a North America desk, you want us to attempt to run an intelligence operation under their nose, to a nationstate that they have kept under their lens for forty years.
I mean, given that they clearly weren't watching us closely enough to predict what we'd do before the war with Victoria, it seems pretty ulikely that they can just casually snap their fingers and gain instant total information awareness over our territory now.

Being a hyperpower does not by any stretch of the imagination confer omniscience. Especially when all of this is happening in the background of "so, how hard is Alexander going to try to find the Declaration of Independence if he has only second and thirdhand reports that it's been found, and if whoever's found it (if that report is true) clearly isn't interested in making propaganda out of it right this minute?"

[] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

Fuck you, Russia. Fuck you, Victoria.
If "secret" wins, I for one will still be stumping for the July 4, 2076 reveal.
 
Do you REALLY think @PoptartProdigy isn't the sort of person who's quite capable of giving us, on a critical success roll or its equivalent, an item with the potential to backfire if handled incorrectly?

"Here, have this magical sword. It can cut anything. Don't drop it on your foot."

"But we got the magical sword on a crit! Surely it wouldn't hurt us?"

Not a good argument for dropping the sword on one's foot.


I think this would be a more accurate example:

"Here, have this magical sword. It can cut anything. Be warned that other people like magical swords too, and might try to steal it/kill you and take it from your cold body if you flaunt it around too much."

:D
 
I mean, given that they clearly weren't watching us closely enough to predict what we'd do before the war with Victoria, it seems pretty ulikely that they can just casually snap their fingers and gain instant total information awareness over our territory now.

Being a hyperpower does not by any stretch of the imagination confer omniscience. Especially when all of this is happening in the background of "so, how hard is Alexander going to try to find the Declaration of Independence if he has only second and thirdhand reports that it's been found, and if whoever's found it (if that report is true) clearly isn't interested in making propaganda out of it right this minute?"

If "secret" wins, I for one will still be stumping for the July 4, 2076 reveal.
They still most likely fucked our intelligence over. With the equivalent of goon squads but yeah.

I think it's too late to keep harping over the same issues, especially since I made it clear I think the real Rubicon now is Russian attacks.

But let do talk about Russian response to our already existing actions and what can happen next..

We know that Russia was going to supply Victoria directly but media intervention prevented that, in response, Russia let Victoria do her own thing and descend into a civil war, hoping to pick up the pieces later, preferably with Blackwell.

I think we actually missed the significance of that action. It means Russia no longer has a major paw in the East Coast . Cali is an... Occupied state and not a client. Mexico can't fuck with us.

If Russia stopped supporting Victoria, that means she planning to take direct action against US in the next few turns.


So... Here the roundtable discussion..

What is that plan?

Sabotage the Midwest conference ? A few assassinations and blaming it on Unionists would had been nice but we purged that malus. Still, a false flag incident would damage the conference and raise enemies. Alternatively, bribery and propaganda might be a thing.

The peace talks ? It's hard not to imagine a Cardinal attending said talks.

Resume assassinating our leaders, such as targeting Burns ?

Support bandits, or worse, insert forces to begin a banditry campaign against us ? Historically, this was what the Three Kingdoms did with nomad/barbarian forces against each other and the American civil war seen the use of such insurgents to cause supply problems.

Introduce shit like anthrax or rot into the crops ? You don't even need to kill people. Just force enough crops to be blighted to introduce new crisis....



Another shall be what is our peace talk goals and where is too far as to cross Russia shit list.is for example free trade with New York too far ? Europe?
 
They still most likely fucked our intelligence over. With the equivalent of goon squads but yeah.

I think it's too late to keep harping over the same issues, especially since I made it clear I think the real Rubicon now is Russian attacks.

But let do talk about Russian response to our already existing actions and what can happen next..

We know that Russia was going to supply Victoria directly but media intervention prevented that, in response, Russia let Victoria do her own thing and descend into a civil war, hoping to pick up the pieces later, preferably with Blackwell.

I think we actually missed the significance of that action. It means Russia no longer has a major paw in the East Coast . Cali is an... Occupied state and not a client. Mexico can't fuck with us.

If Russia stopped supporting Victoria, that means she planning to take direct action against US in the next few turns.
I think you may be drawing out too long of an inferential chain. As a result, you're overlooking a probable hypothesis:

Alexander isn't planning to take immediate action against us because he doesn't consider us to be a threat to Russian interests. Clearly Victoria needs upgrades, but he'd rather sit back and make sure his favored catspaw candidate is competent and flexible enough to use those upgrades, just in case he has to replace Blackwell with someone more useful/biddable.

In this alternate scenario, he's deliberately playing a long game, planning to act against us later, confident in the knowledge that we cannot gain enough power fast enough to actually be a problem he (or a successor) can't solve five years from now. Five years is time for the Victorians to finish their civil war and eat their sandwich, loading up on Russian equipment and better tactical doctrine.

We shouldn't take it as an axiom that Alexander considers it necessary to constantly be taking significant action against us. He may, quite reasonably, view our defeat of his puppet, not as a sign of our threatening strength, but of his puppet's alarming weakness.
 
Canon Omake: The Kansas Coalition
I binged this whole thing over the last 2 days and I definitely enjoyed it! I kept thinking about how things might have turned out for my neck of the woods so I thought I might as well write it down. I tried to keep it reasonable but I do have some bias.
--------------------

The Kansas Coalition

It wasn't too long after the collapse that the state government lost control over most of the sate's territory, but it has managed to survive. Now that Russia and Victoria are getting distracted, and the neighbors are somewhat friendly with each other, the first steps to putting the state, and possibly the whole nation, back together are happening. Saying that the coalition is a state is definitely hyperbole, it is not much more than a (somewhat) unified military and a free trade agreement, but much more than that would have made intervention guaranteed rather than just very likely. The governor was pretty annoyed when Chicago stole their revivalist thunder, but after they gave the Victorians such a beating, they feel like they can forgive them. Now that the Commonwealth is providing such a good distraction, the governor might be able to form an unified government without everything being destroyed. Politics in the area are mostly a mix of New Capitalists and Social Democrats, with some Socialists and the occasional Communist.

Members:

Kansas remnant-
While much diminished, the State government has managed to keep running with almost no interruptions since the collapse and it is quite proud of the prestige earned by being an official government. There have been a few times where a warlord or revolt briefly took control of the capital, but it was always quickly retaken. One of these times gave a convenient excuse for the government to finally get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church at least. Democracy is still going strong here and plenty of farms keep most of the population well fed.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Shawnee, Jackson, eastern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and Northern Osage.

Fort Riley-
Ruled by warlords since the collapse, it has remained nominally under the control of the state government, but most of the time that has been only on paper, and a few time it was more accurate to say that it was in control of the state government. The state has managed to keep it somewhat democratic however. The stocks of old world equipment have long been destroyed or out of spare parts, or had been taken with the Devil Brigade, but the knowledge of how to fight properly has remained, and there still are some old pre-collapse soldiers to help teach new troops. This has made the troops under the warlords command some of the best in the region.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Geary, Riley, Clay, weststern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and northeastern Dickinson.

Lawrence-
It would be an unremarkable, if unusually Socialist for the area, city-state if it were not for one important thing; it managed to keep a university open. After the collapse staff from Emporia, K-State, and a few from collages all over the place came to KU. While it would barely be called a University pre-collapse it was open. It might have been lost if the Kansas City warlords hadn't found it convenient as a buffer with the state government, but everyone in the area soon realized how useful it was. Contact was kept with alumni who returned to their homes all over the region, and all of the great plains, and the government realized they had accidentally made the basics of an intelligence gathering service. Combined with what the state government has and the bits from the other members, the coalition has quality intelligence gathering abilities
Territory under its authority- Most of Douglas county

Kansas City-
Kansas City was divided between many warlords for a long time, but it was eventually united under one. That warlord is now getting old enough to start thinking about legacy, and so is starting to democratize their domain and is getting friendlier with the neighbors. While most of the veterans of the Kansas city wars were not conventionally trained, they got plenty of experience, making for a skilled army.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Wyandotte, Johnson, Jackson, Clay, Cass, northern Miami, western Ray Lafayette and Johnson (the Missouri one), and southern Leavenworth and Platte

Fort Leavenworth-
Controlled by a warlord it has the best navy on the Missouri, except for possibly St. Louis, but given the competition that isn't saying much. As long as it can keep tolling the traffic coming down the Missouri it's happy. Not democratic at all, but the other members of the Coalition are pressuring it to change that.
Territory under its authority- Areas within a few miles of the Missouri river between Leavenworth and St. Joseph



Just for fun I picked out the traits from the rules screen I think would apply- Brown-Water Navy, Old World Training, Established, Ear to the Ground, Victorian Sympathizers, Disunited Currency, Universities
 
I likes. :)

I think this would be a more accurate example:

"Here, have this magical sword. It can cut anything. Be warned that other people like magical swords too, and might try to steal it/kill you and take it from your cold body if you flaunt it around too much."

:D
I was trying to be simplistic.

The point being, it would be borderline uncharacteristic for @PoptartProdigy to give us an asset that we somehow couldn't misuse in a way that fucks us over, if we're careless or irrational or assume that just because we got it from a crit it must be an unalloyed blessing.

...I want to make a tag now. "This is a Poptart Quest." Just so people remember.
 
I binged this whole thing over the last 2 days and I definitely enjoyed it! I kept thinking about how things might have turned out for my neck of the woods so I thought I might as well write it down. I tried to keep it reasonable but I do have some bias.
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The Kansas Coalition

It wasn't too long after the collapse that the state government lost control over most of the sate's territory, but it has managed to survive. Now that Russia and Victoria are getting distracted, and the neighbors are somewhat friendly with each other, the first steps to putting the state, and possibly the whole nation, back together are happening. Saying that the coalition is a state is definitely hyperbole, it is not much more than a (somewhat) unified military and a free trade agreement, but much more than that would have made intervention guaranteed rather than just very likely. The governor was pretty annoyed when Chicago stole their revivalist thunder, but after they gave the Victorians such a beating, they feel like they can forgive them. Now that the Commonwealth is providing such a good distraction, the governor might be able to form an unified government without everything being destroyed. Politics in the area are mostly a mix of New Capitalists and Social Democrats, with some Socialists and the occasional Communist.

Members:

Kansas remnant-
While much diminished, the State government has managed to keep running with almost no interruptions since the collapse and it is quite proud of the prestige earned by being an official government. There have been a few times where a warlord or revolt briefly took control of the capital, but it was always quickly retaken. One of these times gave a convenient excuse for the government to finally get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church at least. Democracy is still going strong here and plenty of farms keep most of the population well fed.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Shawnee, Jackson, eastern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and Northern Osage.

Fort Riley-
Ruled by warlords since the collapse, it has remained nominally under the control of the state government, but most of the time that has been only on paper, and a few time it was more accurate to say that it was in control of the state government. The state has managed to keep it somewhat democratic however. The stocks of old world equipment have long been destroyed or out of spare parts, or had been taken with the Devil Brigade, but the knowledge of how to fight properly has remained, and there still are some old pre-collapse soldiers to help teach new troops. This has made the troops under the warlords command some of the best in the region.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Geary, Riley, Clay, weststern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and northeastern Dickinson.

Lawrence-
It would be an unremarkable, if unusually Socialist for the area, city-state if it were not for one important thing; it managed to keep a university open. After the collapse staff from Emporia, K-State, and a few from collages all over the place came to KU. While it would barely be called a University pre-collapse it was open. It might have been lost if the Kansas City warlords hadn't found it convenient as a buffer with the state government, but everyone in the area soon realized how useful it was. Contact was kept with alumni who returned to their homes all over the region, and all of the great plains, and the government realized they had accidentally made the basics of an intelligence gathering service. Combined with what the state government has and the bits from the other members, the coalition has quality intelligence gathering abilities
Territory under its authority- Most of Douglas county

Kansas City-
Kansas City was divided between many warlords for a long time, but it was eventually united under one. That warlord is now getting old enough to start thinking about legacy, and so is starting to democratize their domain and is getting friendlier with the neighbors. While most of the veterans of the Kansas city wars were not conventionally trained, they got plenty of experience, making for a skilled army.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Wyandotte, Johnson, Jackson, Clay, Cass, northern Miami, western Ray Lafayette and Johnson (the Missouri one), and southern Leavenworth and Platte

Fort Leavenworth-
Controlled by a warlord it has the best navy on the Missouri, except for possibly St. Louis, but given the competition that isn't saying much. As long as it can keep tolling the traffic coming down the Missouri it's happy. Not democratic at all, but the other members of the Coalition are pressuring it to change that.
Territory under its authority- Areas within a few miles of the Missouri river between Leavenworth and St. Joseph



Just for fun I picked out the traits from the rules screen I think would apply- Brown-Water Navy, Old World Training, Established, Ear to the Ground, Victorian Sympathizers, Disunited Currency, Universities
Ooh! Welcome to the quest, welcome indeed! :D I'll need to mull this one over; I'll give you a ruling tomorrow. I very definitely like it, though! Just need to decide on canonicity.
 
I think you may be drawing out too long of an inferential chain. As a result, you're overlooking a probable hypothesis:

Alexander isn't planning to take immediate action against us because he doesn't consider us to be a threat to Russian interests. Clearly Victoria needs upgrades, but he'd rather sit back and make sure his favored catspaw candidate is competent and flexible enough to use those upgrades, just in case he has to replace Blackwell with someone more useful/biddable.

In this alternate scenario, he's deliberately playing a long game, planning to act against us later, confident in the knowledge that we cannot gain enough power fast enough to actually be a problem he (or a successor) can't solve five years from now. Five years is time for the Victorians to finish their civil war and eat their sandwich, loading up on Russian equipment and better tactical doctrine.

We shouldn't take it as an axiom that Alexander considers it necessary to constantly be taking significant action against us. He may, quite reasonably, view our defeat of his puppet, not as a sign of our threatening strength, but of his puppet's alarming weakness.
Except we then stepped on his horn by announcing our victory to the world, seeking international recognition signalling a failure to his prestige and plan and started the road to visibly being a resurgent US by being Defender of the MidWest, expanding our territory significantly and now demonstrating influence and an intent to rebuild industry with a US conference.

If you think Russia isn't going to fuck with us directly after that, that's going to be through authorial fiat. Especially since I repeat, Okhrana was the one who likely KO our intelligence agency and Russia has already attacked our international image. . It might be via goon squads and the equivalent of their 1/5 quality agents but yeah.

We should take him not supporting Victoria to be a realignment of existing US resources to something else. Not no more US interference.
 
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Except we then stepped on his horn by announcing our victory to the world, seeking international recognition signalling a failure to his prestige and plan and started the road to visibly being a resurgent US by being Defender of the MidWest, expanding our territory significantly and now demonstrating influence and an intent to rebuild industry with a US conference.
Yes. But as you and others have pointed out, Russia will have the ability to shut us down hard any time they want, for quite some time. They can afford to, and probably need to, take some time out to reorganize. With the Victorians themselves, their own spy network in our territory, and the local pro-Victorian elements rolled up in such a short span of time, they'll need time to establish HUMINT networks that are capable of carrying out sabotage or other attacks reliably without getting caught by our own (reasonably competent) security forces.

The direct attacks are no doubt coming, and MAY come soon, but it is entirely possible that Russia has its own reasons for pulling back and re-assessing the situation, rather than trying to lash out at us in ways that may prove ineffective or even backfire somehow.

We should take him not supporting Victoria to be a realignment of existing US resources to something else. Not no more US interference.
Given that we are almost entirely ignorant of the global situation as a whole and cannot judge the context of his actions, that is, again, an inferential chain too far. For instance, he may have problems in another part of the world that force him to commit effectively NO additional resources to North America, instead making a rational decision to kick that can down the road a few years until he has more time to deal with it.
 
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