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[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it secret, keep it safe. You're already enough of a target, as a Revivalist state. You don't need more reason for Alexander to put a kill order on you.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

Preservation is tricky. Let's get some experts in, quietly. We can make the dramatic reveal later.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

Switching to this since the '76 option isn't valid. If keeping it a secret wins then I'll vote to unveil it in 2076 when we get the chance.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

I think a tricentennial public reveal is the best option, but giving FCNY a sneak peak? letting them know that we want a better relationship between our two polities sounds like the best option, but I am also not opposed to a reveal now

EDITED typos because of pride
 
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[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

There's something to be said about the possibility that we might meet FCNY and find something we don't like, or vice versa. (Wall Street, meet Social Democracy.) The same with the NCR, to a lesser extent. (Iirc, Poptart described them of being further left than us, so...) This way, we become a major contender for heir to the legacy of the US if it becomes obvious that we will become rivals with the other American states.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

On the other hand, I don't want to screw the Californians by causing some of their folks to go off, half-cocked. There's also the possibility that previously inert intelligence apparatus in service to the Russians might comb California with more thoroughness, considering the appeal of revivalism and how nervous the Russians there might get with the DoI in play.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

I am all for restoring the United States of America, but we need to play this smart. Right now Alexander has his eyes on Victoria and the US territories we do not want his direct attention on us. Once things start to tilt in our favor then we drop the bombshell. If we reveal it right and even restored that is more effective than just hey we have a document that although damaged it is probably the decleration of independence.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
I've said it before, but people have missed it, so temporary threadmark such that nobody misses it:

[ ] Secretly inform the New California Republic and the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation (as well as discussing possible restoration efforts) with a coordinated public reveal to occur on July 4th, 2076.

This is not a valid vote. You do not, at this time, have communications with the NCR that are both reliable and secure. They are not in a position to welcome your diplomats; the only reason they could fly out to talk to you for your initial deal was because they were officially there to scold you -- and at this point, Russia's clients have been ordered to go hands-off with you. You will need to invest actual AP in establishing a back channel to them in order to bring them into this; it's not something that you can do now. I'll give you an option next year if you opt to keep the Declaration secret, but for right now, this vote doesn't fly.

Infrastructure is described as part of the three-year plan, and the MIC is described as lowering DCs for all parts of the three-year plan.

You could be making food purchases on those turns, or at least trying. I won't make you.

If you publicly unveil that you hold the Declaration of Independence and reap the Legitimacy gains that ensue, you do in fact move up on Alexander's shit list. It moves you from, "Troublesome state that gave Victoria a lot of trouble," to, "the whole purpose of this exercise is to prevent somebody from reuniting the United States and these fuckers are flashing relics of the USA while expanding and integrating new territory."
Ah, sorry, I hadn't seen that it wasn't a valid vote, I thought it'd just require a successful action in order to not, well, blow up on us for even trying.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it secret, keep it safe. You're already enough of a target, as a Revivalist state. You don't need more reason for Alexander to put a kill order on you.

[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.
 
[x] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it secret, keep it safe. You're already enough of a target, as a Revivalist state. You don't need more reason for Alexander to put a kill order on you.

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
You know what? Switching to

[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.

[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.
 
its cheap to send a James Bond to go check things out and cause so!e sabotage. It is likely he is already on his way anyway in case Victoria ducks things up had enough. Better the asset already be in place if he needs it there than for Blackwell to choke and suddenly there is nothing left to oppose us. Diverting that asset to burn the declaration won't be too much effort since he is already in the region anyway.

If we keep it secret and the agent burns it its our word vs theirs. If we wave it around and then it explodes, everyone is going to glare daggers at Russia for an act of 'pointless cruelty and destruction'. He will have to run around putting out fires and molify people that he isn't going to come after their old carp next.

Assuming he hasn't already dispatched an agent is a dangerous assumption.
No see, the problem is that one agent does not have a reliable realistic way of keeping track of a specific object we don't want found and that can potentially be stored in just about any arbitrary climate-controlled building*. They'd either need a highly-placed mole in our government (possible but far from a certain proposition), or a large number of agents capable of casting a wide net.

I'm morally certain the Russians are spying on us, but that doesn't confer the ability to automatically find everything about us and everything we want to hide. The primitive state of our technology means that HUMINT is very much a requirement for that, and the Russians, however good their intelligence organs are, can't automatically create new HUMINT networks instantly on demand.
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*(yes, it's going to degrade over time, but the key word is over time; it won't be much worse off for spending another 2-3 years in storage if we can keep the air conditioning and dehumidifier on and so on)

I think there's a might bit of a difference between deciding to invade shithole's on the other side of the world on dubious strategic reasoning and our current situation.
Yes. Namely, this time the big guns are NOT on our side.

Being crazy-bold is risky enough when you have overwhelming firepower and your nation is physically immune to enemy retaliation on any meaningful scale. Much riskier when the opposite is true- when they have overwhelming firepower and are immune to you.

The main contention is that we were initially presented with effectively two options: either we announce that we have the DoI, or don't and keep it secret. Questers being questers, decided they wanted to try to have their cake and eat it two, and thus asked if we could tell our ally without telling the whole world. PoptartProdigy agreed that was a valid option. The thing to keep in mind about PoptartProdigy is that they don't offer trap options, but they are fully willing to let voter write-ins have worse results than any they would be willing to present themselves.

We know IC that the FCNY only survives by the grace and support of European powers. It is reasonable to surmise that one of the requirements of that support is that they liaise heavily with said powers, which implies that the European advisors will come with significant amounts of intelligence agents. Anything that we tell the FCNY is likely to be revealed to the Europeans. And in this setting, Russia is a hyperpower with a deeply capable and practiced intelligence agency. Even if they don't learn about the DoI directly from the FCNY, they will amost certainly learn it from on of the European intelligence agencies that they have infiltrated.

If we want to keep the DoI secret, we should vote to keep it secret. Not "I'll keep it secret by only telling my buddy".
Again, there's a big difference between "the Russians find out a thirdhand report (New York to Europe to Russian spy) that we have the Declaration of Independence" and "the Russians find out we have the Declaration of Independence when Alexander IV turns on the TV and watches Russia Today over breakfast."

In the former case, the Declaration is, well, functionally just a piece of paper. Not especially valuable or signifcant except when actively wielded as a symbol. The worst the Russians are likely to do is to try to send spies to work out its location and see if they can go all Reverse National Treasure on its location.

In the latter case, the Declaration is still just a piece of paper... but the Commonwealth of Free Cities is now a major threat to Alexander's plans in North America. And has deliberately appointed itself as such. They probably don't bother to target the Declaration specifically because why would they care, but they WILL start hitting us with airstrikes and carving up our military capabilities and remaining infrastructure, or something simliarly devastating to us but relatively cheap and easy for them.
 
No see, the problem is that one agent does not have a reliable realistic way of keeping track of a specific object we don't want found and that can potentially be stored in just about any arbitrary climate-controlled building*. They'd either need a highly-placed mole in our government (possible but far from a certain proposition), or a large number of agents capable of casting a wide net.

I'm morally certain the Russians are spying on us, but that doesn't confer the ability to automatically find everything about us and everything we want to hide. The primitive state of our technology means that HUMINT is very much a requirement for that, and the Russians, however good their intelligence organs are, can't automatically create new HUMINT networks instantly on demand.
________________________________

*(yes, it's going to degrade over time, but the key word is over time; it won't be much worse off for spending another 2-3 years in storage if we can keep the air conditioning and dehumidifier on and so on)

Yes. Namely, this time the big guns are NOT on our side.

Being crazy-bold is risky enough when you have overwhelming firepower and your nation is physically immune to enemy retaliation on any meaningful scale. Much riskier when the opposite is true- when they have overwhelming firepower and are immune to you.

Again, there's a big difference between "the Russians find out a thirdhand report (New York to Europe to Russian spy) that we have the Declaration of Independence" and "the Russians find out we have the Declaration of Independence when Alexander IV turns on the TV and watches Russia Today over breakfast."

In the former case, the Declaration is, well, functionally just a piece of paper. Not especially valuable or signifcant except when actively wielded as a symbol. The worst the Russians are likely to do is to try to send spies to work out its location and see if they can go all Reverse National Treasure on its location.

In the latter case, the Declaration is still just a piece of paper... but the Commonwealth of Free Cities is now a major threat to Alexander's plans in North America. And has deliberately appointed itself as such. They probably don't bother to target the Declaration specifically because why would they care, but they WILL start hitting us with airstrikes and carving up our military capabilities and remaining infrastructure, or something simliarly devastating to us but relatively cheap and easy for them.
Actually if I wanted to look for a specific historical document hundreds of years old and in bad condition, I would just track where the compressed nitrogen gas is being shipped to, compare that to a list of libraries. Then you do the footwork and go to each library and see which ones have areas that are off limits or restricted. Then you pass the list off to James Bond who hasn't been to any of these libraries yet and let him do the dirty deed.

I mean, how many important ancient documents do we have that need to be kept in a climate controlled atmosphere of nitrogen lying around? Of those, which ones would we actively guard and hide from the public?

You could do the same with any other agents specific to document conservation. Russia has done document conservation before on their own. They have ready access to experts and resources. They know what goes into document conservation, and we dont have a lot of resources. So if we need tanks of compressed nitrogen to keep a positive pressure inside a vessel to keep a document from deteriorating further, it wont be that hard to track. Its an ancient document that requires certain experts to test and maintain and repair, and it requires certain specific resources.

If you really want to go all in, draw up a list of places that receive compressed nitrogen, draw up a list of places that archivists and librarians who specialize in document conservation work at, and draw up a list of libraries. Then you just see who gets all three, and chances are you are getting really close to the declaration.

If it gets exploded before we reveal it, its our word versus Russias. If it gets exploded after we reveal it, how many native states are going to willingly destroy the Declaration? Even Victoria might not go that far.
 
Okay. Two things. The second, I've already mentioned, but will repeat.

I understand that Russia doesn't give two shits about the USDoI except for how it can inspire revivalist sentiments. That doesn't mean they're stupid enough to ignore it even if it won't necessarily be a priority.

But, you know who will care? Victoria. Remember, despite how proud Victoria is for killing the old US of A, the CMC's original vision statement was a return things to a "better" time. A time before Cultural Marxists destroyed the Founding Father's utopian vision. I have absolutely no doubt that both sides in their civil war would do a lot of awful things to take the DoI for themselves or at least destroy it so it cannot be used by anyone else.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
still not fully clear how we could both keep it hidden and go public at the same time if we went that way?

how come some ppl think they can pick 2 options?
 
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