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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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10ebbor10 said:
The answer to that should be none.

The year is 2075.
Solar pannels last 20 years at full performance, maybe another 20 degraded thereafter.
Wind has a life expectancy of 20-25 years, maybe another decade or 2 thereafter at reduced performance.
Nuclear can last 80 years with improvements and significant refurbishment, but even the youngest plant would be pushing 90 at this point.
Thermal power plants have 50 year lifespans, which can be extended further with extensive refurbishment. However at a certain point you're just building a new powerplant in the same spot.

The current generating capacity of Illinois does not depend on what was installed. It depends on what was newly build.
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Solar is not the best choice for up north anyway.
Wind's better, or so I'm told, with an installed cost of around 3-4 million dollars per 2MW turbine and still dropping. Especially in the Midwest; they don't call Chicago the Windy City for nothing.

Which would then require power storage facilities because of how intermittent wind can get.
Thankfully batteries apparently got much much cheaper and better really quickly by the late 2030s. Had to, if Toyota was bothering to market electric vehicles to the Vics of the 2030s.

But its been *checks*a year and half since the Accords.
You can't build a power plant that fast. Not even coal. So we're working off pre-existing infrastructure. Assume for the sake of assumption that a bunch of these got refurbed just before the Collapse as part of government infrastructural investment to counteract the economic problems.

Probably not the nuclear plants though.
 
uju32 said:
Democracy does not mean liberal though. Look at the current national government of Turkey.
Look at what the US did in South America.

I agree the EU probably doesn't really care very much about the rest of Asia's reservations about China when Japan is outright occupying four Pacific Rim countries in part or in whole(parts of Canada and the US, the Phillipines and South Korea).
But they may well be trying to drive a wedge between India and the Russian bloc, which would require a delicate balancing act.
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Turkey isn't a democracy anymore IMO any more than Russia is. The Democracy Index categorizes it as a hybrid regime.

It would make sense if the EU is trying to drive a wedge between India and Russia but it's unlikely to work. If anything was going to cause a rift between India and Russia it would have been Alexander's role in causing the U.S.'s collapse. Millions of Indian-Americans must have died, and their families in India must have been incensed, but somehow they're still working together. They must be sticking to Russia out of pragmatism and lack of the alternative of the US at this point. India in this timeline took advantage of the collapse to keep China from re-emerging as a competitor, and the EU won't assist with that they way Russia will so winning over India is a non-starter for now.

Considering this, it makes sense for the EU to just give up on India for now and focus everything on bringing an end to Russia's hegemony, including by supporting China. Once Russia's empire collapses it's unlikely India would continue to be allied with them, though it's also likely that it would continue to clash with China even after the rest of the world is at peace.
 
uju32 said:
QUESTION
Installed power generation capacity for Illnois as of 2016 was:
~12,000 MW nuclear from 6 stations
~13,000 MW coal from 16 stations
~4400MW wind from 33 wind farms
~5400MW natural gas from 9 stations
~33MW solar from 5 stations
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Well, we're explicitly unable to get too excited about running oil-fueled ships due to a lack of refining structure and there's exactly 0 chance that we have a native nuclear mining/refining industry capable of feeding a nuclear reactor, so we can take as a given that all of the gas and nuclear plants are unusable due to a lack of fuel regardless of whether they remain intact by now. Similarly, difficulties with sourcing good photovoltaics from abroad and lack of heavy industry for making windmill bits we probably haven't got anything working for either solar or wind right now. That basically leaves coal, which we are confirmed to have loads of.

However many of those coal plants are still around depends on whether the Vics would have torn them down as part of their looting, but it's possible that major cities in the Commonwealth have managed to keep one of the closest plants functioning to provide service (because even if most of the demand is dropping, maintaining and running one (maybe two) pre-built plant(s) to service however much of the city is still cheaper than trying to run everything off of ad-hoc smaller generator networks, and may have been within individual city budgets).
 
Timewinders said:
Turkey isn't a democracy anymore IMO any more than Russia is. The Democracy Index categorizes it as a hybrid regime.

It would make sense if the EU is trying to drive a wedge between India and Russia but it's unlikely to work. If anything was going to cause a rift between India and Russia it would have been Alexander's role in causing the U.S.'s collapse. Millions of Indian-Americans must have died, and their families in India must have been incensed, but somehow they're still working together. They must be sticking to Russia out of pragmatism and lack of the alternative of the US at this point. India in this timeline took advantage of the collapse to keep China from re-emerging as a competitor, and the EU won't assist with that they way Russia will so winning over India is a non-starter for now.

Considering this, it makes sense for the EU to just give up on India for now and focus everything on bringing an end to Russia's hegemony, including by supporting China. Once Russia's empire collapses it's unlikely India would continue to be allied with them, though it's also likely that it would continue to clash with China even after the rest of the world is at peace.
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1)There's only about *checks* 2.8 million Indian Americans in the US as of the last census, and roughly a quarter of those are in the NY-NJ-CT-PA area, with the other major concentration in Cali.
Plus, you have to figure that for some countries, the reverse brain drain would actually be a benefit.

2) Not it doesn't make sense, because making them closer friends with Russia props up the Russian bloc further.
Note how India doesn't really care about Victoria getting fucked up. Drive them further into the Russian camp, and they might. Given as India sits astride one of the sealanes to Australia and the rest of PACS, with the other routes requiring going through Panama or around the tip of Argentina,
kinda important.
 
dinomannitro6 said:
I binged this whole thing over the last 2 days and I definitely enjoyed it! I kept thinking about how things might have turned out for my neck of the woods so I thought I might as well write it down. I tried to keep it reasonable but I do have some bias.
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The Kansas Coalition

It wasn't too long after the collapse that the state government lost control over most of the sate's territory, but it has managed to survive. Now that Russia and Victoria are getting distracted, and the neighbors are somewhat friendly with each other, the first steps to putting the state, and possibly the whole nation, back together are happening. Saying that the coalition is a state is definitely hyperbole, it is not much more than a (somewhat) unified military and a free trade agreement, but much more than that would have made intervention guaranteed rather than just very likely. The governor was pretty annoyed when Chicago stole their revivalist thunder, but after they gave the Victorians such a beating, they feel like they can forgive them. Now that the Commonwealth is providing such a good distraction, the governor might be able to form an unified government without everything being destroyed. Politics in the area are mostly a mix of New Capitalists and Social Democrats, with some Socialists and the occasional Communist.

Members:

Kansas remnant-
While much diminished, the State government has managed to keep running with almost no interruptions since the collapse and it is quite proud of the prestige earned by being an official government. There have been a few times where a warlord or revolt briefly took control of the capital, but it was always quickly retaken. One of these times gave a convenient excuse for the government to finally get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church at least. Democracy is still going strong here and plenty of farms keep most of the population well fed.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Shawnee, Jackson, eastern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and Northern Osage.

Fort Riley-
Ruled by warlords since the collapse, it has remained nominally under the control of the state government, but most of the time that has been only on paper, and a few time it was more accurate to say that it was in control of the state government. The state has managed to keep it somewhat democratic however. The stocks of old world equipment have long been destroyed or out of spare parts, or had been taken with the Devil Brigade, but the knowledge of how to fight properly has remained, and there still are some old pre-collapse soldiers to help teach new troops. This has made the troops under the warlords command some of the best in the region.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Geary, Riley, Clay, weststern Pottawatomie and Wabaunsee, and northeastern Dickinson.

Lawrence-
It would be an unremarkable, if unusually Socialist for the area, city-state if it were not for one important thing; it managed to keep a university open. After the collapse staff from Emporia, K-State, and a few from collages all over the place came to KU. While it would barely be called a University pre-collapse it was open. It might have been lost if the Kansas City warlords hadn't found it convenient as a buffer with the state government, but everyone in the area soon realized how useful it was. Contact was kept with alumni who returned to their homes all over the region, and all of the great plains, and the government realized they had accidentally made the basics of an intelligence gathering service. Combined with what the state government has and the bits from the other members, the coalition has quality intelligence gathering abilities
Territory under its authority- Most of Douglas county

Kansas City-
Kansas City was divided between many warlords for a long time, but it was eventually united under one. That warlord is now getting old enough to start thinking about legacy, and so is starting to democratize their domain and is getting friendlier with the neighbors. While most of the veterans of the Kansas city wars were not conventionally trained, they got plenty of experience, making for a skilled army.
Territory under its authority- roughly the counties of Wyandotte, Johnson, Jackson, Clay, Cass, northern Miami, western Ray Lafayette and Johnson (the Missouri one), and southern Leavenworth and Platte

Fort Leavenworth-
Controlled by a warlord it has the best navy on the Missouri, except for possibly St. Louis, but given the competition that isn't saying much. As long as it can keep tolling the traffic coming down the Missouri it's happy. Not democratic at all, but the other members of the Coalition are pressuring it to change that.
Territory under its authority- Areas within a few miles of the Missouri river between Leavenworth and St. Joseph



Just for fun I picked out the traits from the rules screen I think would apply- Brown-Water Navy, Old World Training, Established, Ear to the Ground, Victorian Sympathizers, Disunited Currency, Universities
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On further reflection, I will give this a canon, although I will have their in-quest state of affairs be slightly in advance of what is described here. Thank you very much, and nicely done!

Was there another? I've been very busy this weekend; I feel like I've skipped one.
uju32 said:
I'll try.

QUESTION
Installed power generation capacity for Illnois as of 2016 was:
~12,000 MW nuclear from 6 stations
~13,000 MW coal from 16 stations
~4400MW wind from 33 wind farms
~5400MW natural gas from 9 stations
~33MW solar from 5 stations

What types do we retain?
I don' need numbers or anything, just a rough idea.
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Gosh, I don't even know.
 
Cyberphilosipher said:
So...since we are making Revivalist states now...I'll try my hand at the craft.

Don't intend these to actually exist in anyform, But I am holding out hope that SOME of these odd monstrosities exist.

I think of this as Nothing more than A Writing Exercise...Enjoy and God Bless America.

Also Because California is taken and I can't seem to get any information on it. So I'll make my own.

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The Northern Alliance (Name Undecided): AKA One of the More popular Names they are trying to push...limited success.

Formed around 2074 in the aftermath of the Founding of the Commonwealth, as a defence alliance against Victoria, The NAI is slowly getting formulating a strategy into forming a Proper nation state.

The State is large, controlling or vassalizing much of Minnisota, Manitoba,And portions of Saskatchewen.

However, the Internal devices of Canadian and American Revivalist Sentiment, the Sheer reaction and backlash of the States creation and the Lack of a Proper network to the outside world and divisions on many levels of government to properly allocate resources to witch member group state and well general fear of Victorian and Russian attack on the nation, it faces the Young nation is under threat of falling under the seems.

Fortunately, the Powerful Winnipeg Home Alliance (And their client states in the State of Manitoba, ranging from warlord Cliques to a Religious cult out in the middle of Nowhere) Houses what little remains of the Canadian Military and RCMP in CFB Winnipeg, witch while bombed repeatedly by Victoria, remains functional and coordinates the Largest attempted Revivalist nation project since the California Republic.

Down Further south are the men of the Minnisota, who while part of the Alliance, are having difficulties maintaining long term order outside of key strongholds and choke points across the region, no thanks to the DIFFERING ideologies the collapse created.

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Major Member States: AKA The states of the nation.

The Winnipeg Home Alliance: Formed in the City of Winnipeg during the Collapse and later a frontline city for the last of the Victorian Canadian wars (See Fifth Victorian Expedition into Canada June-January 2065-2066.). The City houses Many Aircraft, and has finally found its feet in recent years, acting as an intermediary for the Squabbling midling nations of the states nearby to the West and North.

While Primarily a Democratic institution, the Civilian Government is at current point forced to follow Military procedure due to martial law having never been fully repealed by Parliament.

However with the New Prime Minister (A Former RCMP Commissioner no less) and A Seasoned Military General at the Reigns, it should be smooth sailing.

Now what the hell do we do with all this equipment??

Government Type: Parliamentary democracy...with Military advisors.

Area control (Nominal): The State of Manitoba up to the Northern Edge of Lake Winnipeg, after that...well depends on the town. They are Also trying to get the states to the West to join.

AN: The Canadian Army...refused to die in my Headcanon, this is the Result.

The Ripley Rangers: The Former Minnesota National Guard, bravely refused to abandon their post with the Fall of America, dedicating themselves to the protection of the state...even as their equipment broke down, they were bombed to hell by Russia and Attacked by the Victorians several times.

In recent years...they have tried to bring law and order to the Minnesota Area at the Request of the Saint Paul Confederation, to form a proper state government. Seeing allies and an actual job instead of self imposed law enforcement duties.
-Government Type: Military Police State with Democratic leanings.

Location under Control: Camp Riply, Numerous Outposts and towns spread out across the State.

AN: A Bog standard Military Society, filled to the brim with an underfunded and barely functioning police force stretched to the Absolute Limit of capability of enforcing unification.

The Saint Paul Confederation:The Reformed State Government of Minnisota, finally coming out of hiding and ordering the reclamation of the state and well build a nation.

Government type: Republican State Legislative body and Governor...with a plan to form a great unified state.

Area Controlled: St.Paul, and Ramsey, Dokota, Washington, Nominal alliance with the Rest of Minnesota.

AN: Bog standard US remnants and People wanting to Ride the Wave of Nation Revival.

The Senate of the People of the Republic of Duluth: The Thanedom...is an Oddity among the revivalist states of america...in that it is what would qualify as...a living Role, that got out of hand.

Context...we don't really know what happened to make them want to try to make Rome in the Modern day but somehow it's working a citizen's senate and army was formed and they are making progress to forming a functioning society.

All we know is that someone is running things like a well organized state.

Government Type: Republic??

Area of Control: The Duluth Metropolitan area and the Surrounding Itasca and Lake County.

AN: We all know someone would go crazy and form the next Rome to get legitimacy. It's another thing for it to actually work.

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To say that these guys have an interesting cast of Characters is an Understatement. But they are in a unique situation over all, and that is something I chose to make.

And it is seen in their unique and different National Spirits compared to the Commonwealth, given their situation is Massively different to ours and has a different story and Situation that needs to be told.

Positive National Spirits: Theses are the Advantages this nation has.

Memories of the 5th Winter War: On paper the Victorian Expedition to claim Canada was an excuse to kowtow the Canadian Revivalist Sentiments and Kill anyone of Nominal Importance that survived the Last Four times Victoria Came to depopulate the Region, problem, we were ready for them at long last. RCMP Commissioner Locke had finally rallied anyone of skill and importance in the area for this war, stretching as far as wanderers from Montana.

The Victorian's expected an Easy Victory...what they got was the Fifth Winter War, I won't say anymore on the subject. But we made someone weep in joy with the Quagmire we caused for them...We learned from Finland's examples after all. (Start with a Unified Military Command Structure and a 4/5 Army in the Field, veterans of the 5th Winter War.)

Old World Stockpile:They Thought Canada was Thoroughly looted of all Modern Equipment and the Ability to make war was depleted. They were incorrect in that assumption and it cost them Dearly. You even fixed a BUNCH OF JETS!! I SEE YOU BIG JETS YOU ARE NEXT!!(You have what remains of the Canadian Arsenal at your disposal, all of the Canadian Arsenal,Recovered from years of scavenging, trading, shooting and the occasional stealing from Corpses. But you have the Canadian Military....if you could train people how they WORK!! Not many old World Personel you see.)

Organized: You have everything a Nation could need, A Post Office, Military, still working on the free healthcare bit but baby steps. (You have an organized Structure of Government, set up from the Martial Law of the Collapse, it's not perfect, but something exists...somehow.)

Cause of Unity: The Need for greater cooperation, and fear of Victoria, unifies us all to an uncomfortable degree, and people like it so far...so It can't all be bad. (You are Riding of the Euphoria of forming a nation based on Killing Victorians, having food on the table and a functioning government. Everyone likes those right?)

Big: A Chunk of Canada, and Minisota are in this Gang, with all that implies.

Negative Debuffs: AKA What is the Problems in the Neighborhood.

Differing Sentiments: Are We an American or Canadian Revivalist state, that's one of the Questions people are asking these days...and one that needs an answer. (American and Canadian Revivalist Parties are literally brawling each other in the street over this question, better answer it)

Shattered and Divided: Between the Crumbling Infrastructure, the NUMEROUS Wars with Victoria and Russian Saboteurs in the Collapse, to say your infrastructure is in poor shape is an Understatement. And that is just the Stuff they missed!! ( Internal Infrastructure is in dire need of being fixed and refit for service in a nation state.)

Isolated: Between Japan's Colonies to the West, Victoria, the Looming Spectre of Russia, and POLAR ICE, and you're pretty much alone up here...at least the Terror Bombings Stopped in the 2050s. (You have no diplomatic Contacts with the outside world, hell the outside world doesn't even know you exist, and they don't care. Hell EVEN THE OTHER REVIVALIST states, don't know you exist.)

The Unruly Neighbors:You know what is really fun, Survivalists from the Dakota Badlands stealing shit for the Local Warlord Clique to form some kind of Khanate or whatever they are calling it!! They can be reasoned with...supposedly, but the general consensus is that they need to be handled swiftly. (The Dakota Badlands are ruled by a warlord of great repute, some military man that took power after the collapse, its needs to be dealt with properly and promptly, there could be a war at this rate.)


AN: So I saw what @dinomannitro6 did last night and decided to fill in part of the map myself...The Traits are something I thought up to bring more Flavor to the world. because its not all uniformed into traits that is provided by Poptart.

Spot the refrence to Possible Negaverse things.

Enjoy and Give Feedback.
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Hm...contradicts some things I wanted to do, I'm afraid. Non-canon. Thank you, regardless!
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Gosh, I don't even know.
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It is highly likely that there is no general electrical grid available in the Commonwealth, and that all electrical production for workshop-factories is handled by smaller-scale generators that are burning coal, charcoal, wood-gas, wood, dried animal/human waste, or are using windmills, waterwheels, bicycles, animal-treadmills, expensively imported solar panels, all alongside simply battery banks to help provide smoother power when discharged.
 
Godwinson said:
It is highly likely that there is no general electrical grid available in the Commonwealth, and that all electrical production for workshop-factories is handled by smaller-scale generators that are burning coal, charcoal, wood-gas, wood, dried animal/human waste, or are using windmills, waterwheels, bicycles, animal-treadmills, expensively imported solar panels, all alongside simply battery banks to help provide smoother power when discharged.
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Well, there are likely patchy intra-city electrical grids, based off of the remains of pre-Collapse infrastructure. So while brownouts/outages are much more common and the patchwork array of generators is still a thing, large chunks of urban environments are likely to have access to power lines/outlets (just a question of whether they're all live or not). Nothing for suburbs/farms outlying areas though, those really big cross-country transmission wires are much more vulnerable to Victorian aid.
 
They're also really hard to replace. The big transforming stations can take up to 2 years to build, are special-orders, and made by a handfull of facilities in the world. They're also ridicously heavy, so even if we could get a replacement, we couldn't get it installed.
 
... i domt think rebuilding steam powered factories is viable.

Still. 1930s power plants exist so that kinda heavy industry shoild be achievable ?

Me think non industrial power is going to be handled off grid... Households dont need the kind of load and voltage that factories need, especially if we talking about non power intensive stuff like fans and LEDs.
 
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[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
Godwinson said:
It is highly likely that there is no general electrical grid available in the Commonwealth, and that all electrical production for workshop-factories is handled by smaller-scale generators that are burning coal, charcoal, wood-gas, wood, dried animal/human waste, or are using windmills, waterwheels, bicycles, animal-treadmills, expensively imported solar panels, all alongside simply battery banks to help provide smoother power when discharged.
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I mean, there might be a coal-fired power plant or two of respectable size running around Chicago, or a hydroelectric dam or two that the Victorians didn't blow up because when they force themselves on a community, they like having electricity for their own barracks too?

kilopi505 said:
...so are dynamos back in vogue in Post-Victoria America? And waterwheel power plants too?
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Dynamos are inefficient for virtually every possible application. "Go lower tech" doesn't always mean "go to tech easier to maintain or more worthwhile to use."
 
[X] Keep it a secret publicly, but pass some quiet words through your representatives in the Free City of New York that you have what you believe to be the Declaration, and would appreciate their confirmation. Massive opinion boost with the Free City of New York, +2 Legitimacy as they automatically recognize you.
 
[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

longest_yeah_boy_ever.mp4
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Oct 15, 2019 at 3:18 PM, finished with 272 posts and 132 votes.
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[X] Make it known to the world that you possess the Declaration of Independence, and invite the Free City of New York to Chicago to examine and confirm the authenticity of the document, as well as discussion possible restoration efforts. +8 Legitimacy, massive opinion boost with FCNY, large opinion boost with most polities within the former borders of the United States, negative attention from Japan, Russia, and Russian client states.

Hell with it, caution is overrated.
 
www.militarytimes.com

CID investigating whether Army infantry officer called for mass murder and destruction amid racist, anti-government Reddit screeds

Reserve Army Maj. William Jeffrey Poole is under investigation for far-right extremist activity online.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com

There is a US Army officer- one Major William Jeffery Poole- who is currently under investigation for expressing views on Reddit largely in line with those of Lind's. He seems exactly the sort of person who would have been one of John Rumford's early recruits to the Christian Marines. He's likely to be disgruntled ex-military in the near future, called for major American cities to be nuked, seems to endorse a form of 4th Generation Warfare (a small group of insurgents could bring down America!), and even denounces Cultural Marxism.

Take a look;




In any case, while the Maj. William J. Poole, CMC is likely deceased by this point I was still inspired to create;

Name: Brig. Gen. Eli Gordon Poole, CMC
Politics: A member of one of the Victorian old-guard families- the grandson of an ex-US Army Major who was a companion of Rumford himself- Colonel Gordon is a loyal devotee of 4th Generation Warfare and the ideology of the retro-culture.
Personality: Until recently he was a mere colonel, his promotion is the result of the CMC faction in Victoria's civil war needing politically reliable individuals to fill the upper ranks of their organization. He's not on top by any means, but the good general is highly ambitious and has a field command. If he distinguishes himself enough... Well who knows what he might do? Poole isn't stupid, but he is coddled, the product of a very insulated world with little exposure to the world beyond Victoria or ideas outside of the party line. To his credit he acknowledges Blackwell and the Victorian Reformers as a dangerous threat, not to his credit he considers the Commonwealth and Victoria's external enemies as mere rabble who got lucky. He's a bit of a "modern major general-type" who knows the classics back to front and is an expert on historical campaigns.

Just in case @PoptartProdigy was looking for villains for the other side of the Victorian civil war.
 
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