thread policyDiscussion of politics that does not directly relate to the Quest or to Quest votes are banned from hereon out. This thread policy will be enforced by the Moderation team. Do not ignore it.
What I'm saying is, due to the course of action we've already (prudently) taken, that ship has literally sailed.
We now have an ally 600 sea miles from home. One that cannot defend itself against Victorian armies without our aid- Victoria could raise another 5-6 divisions and come back for another go at Detroit long before Detroit could muster an army capable of stopping them out of its own resources. They'll need our help and protection to stay safe, now, and if they aren't safe, we aren't safe.
And we can only help them through a long naval supply line that depends in large part on our holding a string of naval bases. The only friends we have along that route right now are the friends we made using the Basing Rights action.
I'm not saying we should be using our gunboat fleet to threaten or hurt anyone. But even if all it does is protect our supply shipments to Detroit, prevent outright piracy against our own allies, and keep a watch out around Detroit to make sure the Victorians don't try anything funny... We still need the Commonwealth Navy to be in a lot more places at the same time than it was ever designed to be before.
We can't afford to keep the fleet at its current size for much longer, and expanding it is by far our most pressing single security requirement. Or at least the most pressing one we can actually do anything about right away.
The embargo may well collapse or partly collapse on its own simply because we've won the Battle of Detroit.
If it doesn't, and if there's a specific "End Embargo" action that needs to be taken before the embargo starts to lift, my plan proposal would be to do that with the AP allocated to Soothing Fears and the extra unallocated AP. That will more than pay for itself in our ability to soothe fears more effectively next turn- because ending the embargo is important enough that it's just about the ONLY thing worth delaying Soothing Fears for.
If we have two separate actions for embargo and Soothing I want a point in each. The Victorian's have basically no capacity to navally mess with us, they have already shown they can and will use diplomacy.
(3) or (4) are pure unadulterated good news and do not alter my plan in its outlines, they just make it work better.
(2) would make it all the more important that we build more gunboats.
(1), well... let's just say that if we somehow have an Economic action that's a "must-take" (like "aid to Detroit or they starve") AND a special action needed to undo the embargo AND we don't get back any of our free AP/turn from having defeated the Victorians and established that our claim to be able to protect the Midwest from them is credible...
That's... my point? Those were all options where I would agree with your plan. I was saying "In all these circumstances (1-4) I would change to build boats."
Well, all those things could totally happen at once and put together would require me to change my plan. On the other hand, that would also represent pretty bad luck for us, something close to the worst-case scenario that could unfold in the event of us actually winning, except for, say, immediate major Russian attention.
I'm trying to outline a plan that makes sense in the 'median' situation we can predict:
a) Where we don't assume we'll get any AP/turn Poptart didn't explicitly say we'd get.
b) That we'll lose all the AP Poptart says we will, even if we can think of a reason why we might not.
c) That all the actions available to us before the war will still be available, or clearly recognizable "successor" options that do something related will be available.
d) That while some new crises or abrupt demands may be placed on us, the demands will be, importantly, limited in scope.
Planning for something worse than is outlined in (d) would definitely require alteration of the draft plan. But by the same token, so would uncharacteristic good fortune such as we might imagine under (a) and (b).
It's a draft plan, it explicitly has a slot for [INSERT IMPORTANT THING HERE] for a reason. The main thing I wanted to do is discuss what, all else being equal, we'd probably like to do with the 6 AP we can be reasonably sure we'll be getting, assuming we aren't forced to do something else by circumstances we can't predict with confidence from where we now sit.
Yes, and in all this, I agree. My point was I value our diplomacy over gunboats. Both would hurt to lose, but we need the embargo out, and if it requires at least one success, then it needs two points.
If we have two separate actions for embargo and Soothing I want a point in each. The Victorian's have basically no capacity to navally mess with us, they have already shown they can and will use diplomacy.
Well, I do have an extra point budgeted. If we find ourselves needing or 'needing' more than 1 AP for tasks that seem more critical to me than Expand the Navy, we're in pretty deep doo-doo.
Yes, and in all this, I agree. My point was I value our diplomacy over gunboats. Both would hurt to lose, but we need the embargo out, and if it requires at least one success, then it needs two points.
Okay, but there are so many possible scenarios for 'how to end the embargo' that we end up with a looot of contingencies.
For instance, we could have one or two AP/turn automatically resolve as some of our trading partners feel the pinch of the embargo for themselves and realize we've actually driven off the Victorian Army for the first time anyone can remember, but then need to do more in the way of actions to finish the job. Then what? Clearly, we'd have more AP to play with and it would make a lot of sense to pour them into diplomacy of all kinds.
Or we could have a situation where we need to accumulate X successes to buy back X points of embargo. That definitely shifts the dynamic because of the action economy issue.
But in the situation I expect (in that the resolution of the embargo has more to do with other events like "how everyone reacts to the victory around Detroit" and less with our specific AP expenditure choices)...
Well frankly, a naval expansion is going to be an important adjunct to our diplomacy. Gunboats don't just exist as a beating stick. They also serve as our way of providing safety for communities that trust us and want to work with us, our most visible way of assuring allies that we are actively protecting them, and the only thing that can make our merchant fleets feel safe operating out on the Lakes and rivers freely. Having our gunboat fleet stretched too thin makes us vulnerable to bad luck and random unexpected bullshit cropping up in a way we would otherwise not be.
I don't consider it necessarily the single most important thing we can possibly do, but I consider it a higher priority next turn than further industrial expansion, which is really saying something. Since we have one locked Economics AP that has to be spent on something, well... there you go.
I mean, it's easy to say that, but what does that mean?
Does it mean "Start spending on buying it down now?" Because I'm with you there.
Does it mean "Spend literally all available free and diplomatic AP on it until it's gone, ignoring all other crises, opportunities, and needs?" Because I don't agree with that.
"We just need" a lot of things. The entire debate about what plans we follow in the main turn votes boils down to how much we need them, and how to allocate limited resources. Like, do you think we can afford to totally neglect 'far foreign' diplomacy while we spend all our effort on Soothing Fears? Or do you think we need to split our effort even if that means it takes 2-3 turns to fully finishSoothing Fears? I think the latter is the case.
Firstly, foreign allies are the only way we're going to get military equipment competitive with what Victoria can get from Russia in the medium term. And we're going to need to start in on that promptly, because we need that equipment rolling in before the Victorians finish "eating their sandwich" and reconstructing a new, better prepared military.
Secondly, remember that the medium term goal of this campaign isn't just generic expansion, it's "Victoria Falls." We want to make sure other revivalist states are keeping up the pressure and know just how extensively we beat the Victorians so that they can take maximum advantage. For example, this would be an excellent time for the Free City of New York to claim some territory in New Jersey or something and say "you and what army" to the Victorians... but left to their own devices they may simply not know that!
Thirdly, the same thing that already happened to our local diplomacy can also happen to our 'far foreign' diplomacy. If rivals or enemies get out ahead of us, we'll be stuck playing catch-up for a long time. We need to at least start taking 'far foreign' diplomatic actions to get a sense of what's even going on out there, rather than staying cooped up in our little geographic bunker in the upper Midwest. Chicago will not prosper by being an isolationist state.
Fourthly, we know we can resolve our 'near foreign' issues through a planned, predictable sequence of actions that aren't gated behind any other major projects like "refurbish O'Hare" or "secure trade route down the Mississippi" or whatever. That means that while we MUST start carrying out those actions promptly, we can also be reasonably confident of being able to complete them in a timely manner before the Victorians try to throw Round Two at us. We can afford to pace ourselves a little.
Fifthly, I think it is bad practice in general for us to throw obsessive levels of resources at one problem at a time, given how the action point economy works, unless there is some kind of crisis to resolve- not just a bad situation, a crisis where we've got an external clock that's ticking down. We've especially seen with diplomacy that there are advantages to getting in on the ground floor and taking part of an action early. Imagine where we'd be if we'd said "oh no, we can't afford to put two or three points into Detroit this turn, so we might as well put it off until next turn" on Turn 1 to resolve the food crisis and on Turn 2 to deal with the spy. If we hadn't gotten around to diplomacy with Detroit until Turn 3, it would almost certainly have been too late. The Viks would have had about a whole year to get Detroit to let them pass and provide them with a base of operations.
Sixthly, we can reasonably expect that next turn, our action economy is going to be very tight anyway. This simply isn't a turn when we can throw large resources at a single project unless it's of the utmost urgency. Unless Poptart explicitly comes out and says "clear ths action or the 3 AP/turn embargo stays on" or something like that, Soothing Fears and other near-foreign diplomatic actions are certainly important, but lack that kind of urgency. Whether we finish clearing the malus in six months or in twelve is less of an issue when the main thing we're trying to accomplish is to defuse tensions.
we have no idea how our neighbors are going to respond to us savaging victoria, so I kinda feel trying to plan our diplomatic approach before we see that is a bad idea.
we have no idea how our neighbors are going to respond to us savaging victoria, so I kinda feel trying to plan our diplomatic approach before we see that is a bad idea.
Heh, if we can pull it off we should probably see if we can sell some booze. With the celebrations coming up I feel that we have an obligation as Chicagoan's to carry on the ancient tradition of the bootleggers of old. And if we happen to get enough money to run our country for the next few years, well that's a nice bonus.
we have no idea how our neighbors are going to respond to us savaging victoria, so I kinda feel trying to plan our diplomatic approach before we see that is a bad idea.
Well, the one thing we can plan for is that we're going to have a diplomatic approach. Even if we'll have to wait for the Turn 4 post to find out what our options are, we know we're going to be budgeting for it.
My main thing I'm pushing for is to allocate at least one diplomatic point to 'far foreign' diplomacy, because we need to get that rolling rather than waiting and regretting it.
Well, I meant to update tonight, but instead of the in-depth battle report I intended, I'm somehow looking at 1,000 words of one of your grunts using a chocolate bar to check an FCNY reporter's privilege from the front lines minutes before the shooting starts. I don't know what just happened, but I think I like it.
I'll finish this madness up tomorrow. See y'all then!
we have no idea how our neighbors are going to respond to us savaging victoria, so I kinda feel trying to plan our diplomatic approach before we see that is a bad idea.
We need foreign relations to even get started on our feet; we needed Sister Cali's aid to cripple VAF assets, and she's most definitely not a local power. Furthermore, access to foreign trade and diplomacy will turboboost our influence on our neighbors anyway, as interest coming our way spills over. Everyone will want a piece of that trade.
That said, random_npc is also right.
We have no idea how the shattering losses of the Victorian Army will affect the geopolitical situation going forward . Victory might even yield temporary AP to the budget from the sheer euphoria of our local population, or a surge of immigrants and volunteers, or local microstates rushing to suck up to the winning side.
The only thing I'm going to predict is that with the body blow that Victorian power projection just took, a lot of the Victorian aid worker network are going to suffer "accidents". They have not made themselves popular at the best of times, even with their fellow travellers; many white supremacists are neopagan not Christian, and the ban on alcohol is unlikely to be popular.
Only the threat of the Victorian military beatstick has kept their agents of influence safe.
With said army getting blown away in front of international media? With prisoner interviews and pictures of wrecked and destroyed Victorian gear blasted across satellite TV and newspapers? They are going to lose a lot of their influence with their catspaws, and in places like DC where they have been conducting regular progroms, it's going to be open season on known agents as forty years of indignities get repaid with interest on anyone not fast enough to get out of town before the news spreads.
That's going to cripple their information and influence network something fierce.
And they're going to be expending too much effort on rebuilding their hard power to actually protect those assets. At the same time that resistance movements are going to mushroom.
Interesting times. ■■■■■■■■■■ Miscellanneous
The German Navy operated 18x Type 206, a ~450 ton submarine in the Baltic between 1973 and 2011, as a replacement for the somewhat smaller Type 205 which it used between 1963 and 1969. The Colombian Navy currently operates 2x Type 206s.
Based on Korean military hobbyist magazine, the Military Review, May 2019 edition.
Following news update are:
More vehicle assets given to infantry than before in form of K808 and K200A1.
K808 will upgraded with 30mm cannon
K200A1 will be upgraded to fitted with 30mm cannon, and Non-explosive Reactive Armor.
Development next generation of 40mm automatic grenade launcher.
Deployment of new generation of 120mm mortar at battalion level while 81mm mortar will replace 60mm at company level.
Based on US and Israeli experience, the infantry regiment will be enhanced as infantry brigade with more firepower and more independent command.
Current infantry division has three infantry regiments and four artillery battalions, each regiment have three infantry battalions, each battalion has three infantry company, and each company has three rifle platoons. At regimental fire support company, 12 4.2in mortars, 4 M40 106mm recoilless rifles and antitank asset such as Metis and TOW. Battalion fire support company has 12 81mm mortars, 8 90mm RCL, and 8 K4 automatic grenade launchers. Company level fire support has 3 60mm mortars. Each infantry squad has 6 K2 rifle with one NVG, 1 K201 and 1 K3. After mobilization, additional K2 and K201 is augmented to squad. GPMG no longer in service. Additional firepower for the squad is either a Panzerfaust with a launcher and three rockets or 2 to 4 M72 LAW.
Current planning is to reduce infantry divisions to 12 and mechanized divisions to 3. Then infantry brigade will have three infantry battalions, artillery battalion and support battalion. Each battalion will have organic drone assets for reconnaissance, attack and suicide (like Harpy). Battalion mortar will first be fitted with 4.2in mortar and then 120mm mortars, recoilless rifle will be replaced by 6 Hyungoon antitank missile launchers and current AGL will be replaced by next generation of automatic grenade launchers. Company fire support will replace its 60mm mortar with 81mm mortar.
Based on Korean military hobbyist magazine, the Military Review, May 2019 edition. Following news update are: More vehicle assets given to infantry than before in form of K808 and K200A1. K808 will upgraded with 30mm cannon K200A1 will be upgraded to fitted with 30mm cannon, and Non-explosive...
Given the parallels between the NK/SK situation and ours, I thought it might be worth looking at this.
Especially given the windfall of military equipment from the laker.
Current estimates of Soviet/Russian tank production
Sure, even a completely obsolete tank is still a mobile bullet proof bunker with machine guns and a big gun capable of throwing HE; and in the T-62's case the 115 mm with modern ammunition is still dangerous even against modern-ish tanks and can't be dismissed, but the Russians also have plenty of other options. Let me pull up an old list I made:
Tank No. built
T-55 86,000–100,000+ est.
T-62 22,700+
T-64 ~13,000
T-72 25,000+
T-80 5,404
T-90 3,200+
T-14 20+
That's like ~160 000 tanks built. Of them ~46 000 were with 125 mm guns. A decent amount went on export or ended up in former soviet republics. Current numbers in the Russian Ground Forces are:
Tank Active Reserve
T-64 0 2000
T-72 2000 8000
T-80 450 4000
T-90 350 200
T-14 20+ 0
That's still ~17 000 tanks with 125 mm guns. I'd have expected that even the Russians would have had a hard time finding the manpower for all that hardware. In my opinion they should just get rid of anything built before ~1985. There's simply no point in keeping it. Better to invest the money in new kit. Why spend time maintaining and upgrading the T-62 when you can buy more T-14 Armata tanks?
The only thing I'm going to predict is that with the body blow that Victorian power projection just took, a lot of the Victorian aid worker network are going to suffer "accidents". They have not made themselves popular at the best of times, even with their fellow travellers; many white supremacists are neopagan not Christian, and the ban on alcohol is unlikely to be popular.
Series of vignettes showing Victorians outside of Victoria getting mobbed. Starts out looking like a revenge fic, but each scene shifts more and more into the Victorian perspective, especially the Vics that actually think they're trying to help people and do good work (in a condescending WMB sort of way). Maybe throw a few "sympathizers" on the pyre for horror?
@PoptartProdigy Important question I forgot to ask earlier: What do our anti-tank capabilities look like, outside of The Big Red One equipped with OWE? Do we have like, shoulder fired rockets, or towed cannons, or do we just rely on artillery, or what?
@PoptartProdigy Important question I forgot to ask earlier: What do our anti-tank capabilities look like, outside of The Big Red One equipped with OWE? Do we have like, shoulder fired rockets, or towed cannons, or do we just rely on artillery, or what?
You used to have a few ancient AT artillery pieces, but Burns unilaterally slashed them on account of the fact that they were compatible with literally nothing else. They've been remanded to the militia to be used per discretion. These days it's man-portable equipment outside of the BRO in the regular army.
You used to have a few ancient AT artillery pieces, but Burns unilaterally slashed them on account of the fact that they were compatible with literally nothing else. They've been remanded to the militia to be used per discretion. These days it's man-portable equipment outside of the BRO in the regular army.
Well, at our tech level that basically means heavy machine guns, technicals armed with autocannon that are sort of "transitional antitank" in that they'd penetrate most armored vehicles except a main battle tank, and shoulder-fired rockets that are probably not guided.
Well, at our tech level that basically means heavy machine guns, technicals armed with autocannon that are sort of "transitional antitank" in that they'd penetrate most armored vehicles except a main battle tank, and shoulder-fired rockets that are probably not guided.
So, against the so-called tanks used by the Saviors division, would it be reasonable to say that forces not using OWE would stand a much better chance than they would against the CMC and their more modern equipment?
Well, at our tech level that basically means heavy machine guns, technicals armed with autocannon that are sort of "transitional antitank" in that they'd penetrate most armored vehicles except a main battle tank, and shoulder-fired rockets that are probably not guided.
So, against the so-called tanks used by the Saviors division, would it be reasonable to say that forces not using OWE would stand a much better chance than they would against the CMC and their more modern equipment?
It's definitely a safer bet, and the Savior Division has already lost quite a few tanks to our minelaying back when the BRO was finishing off the Leamington force.
So, against the so-called tanks used by the Saviors division, would it be reasonable to say that forces not using OWE would stand a much better chance than they would against the CMC and their more modern equipment?
Basically, our likely AT weapons fall into three categories:
1) Autocannon (typically technical truck-mounted, everything from heavy machine guns in the .50 caliber class, up through 20mm and 30mm guns, and theoretically even larger).
2) Shoulder-fired unguided rockets.
3) Recoilless rifles, which are probably also our main heavy infantry support weapon in place of mortars if applicable, but may also be mounted on technicals.
Enemy armored vehicles likewise fall into three categories:
A) Infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs), typically of the BTR series. These are amphibious and carry autocannon or direct fire artillery.
B) T-34 tanks. These are very not amphibious, and presumably carry 85mm guns.
C) Cold War Russian tanks, probably T-54/55 series
...
All three of our types of antitank weapons will perform just fine against type (A).
Autocannon will tend to be ineffective against (B) and (C), because while some autocannon rounds might penetrate a T-34 from some angles, getting the gun onto the target in a vehicle at acceptable close range is going to be unlikely and seldom practical.
Rockets and recoilless rifles will cleave through (B) like a radiant lance of Nazi-vaporizing fury, and will probably do about the same to (C) unless the T-54/55s in question have received extensive armor upgrades (like explosive reactive armor blocks), which to be quite fair they may well have since such upgrade packages are already very common on T-54/55s available for purchase and this is likely to remain true.
...
The practical upshot of this is that the Judas Division Waffen CMC troops had a mix of vehicles (A) and (C), making their light armor highly vulnerable to all our AT weapons, and their heavy armor immune to our autocannon and probably at least somewhat resistant to our other AT weapons. Somewhat. Probably. Unless they did something stupid.
Whereas the Savior Division has vehicles of type (B), making their medium armor largely immune to our autocannon but probably fully vulnerable to our other AT weapons.
So the Savior Division's tanks will be more vulnerable than the CMC's tanks, but less vulnerable than the CMC's amphibious infantry fighting vehicles, is what I'm getting at I guess.
I mean, at least a pile of whatever RPG knock-off the Victorians use which may not be fully modern...
But the big problem there is training. Teaching people to hit anything with an RPG, even at fairly short ranges, is nontrivial and takes more time than we have readily available during the middle of this battle.
"There's the little problem of reliably hitting anything at 300m. It's non-trivial with iron sights on an M-16. It's hard with an RPG-7. They're low-velocity projectiles early in their flight, so a small crossbreeze can throw accuracy out the window. It takes a skilled, trained operator to reliably hit anything with one, and most Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc are not. We used to joke 'There are two kinds of jihadis: ones who think the RPG is the Fist of Allah, given to them to smite the infidels at will... and those who've actually fired one.' "[/I]
It's definitely a safer bet, and the Savior Division has already lost quite a few tanks to our minelaying back when the BRO was finishing off the Leamington force.
To be fair, in a realistic world "quite a few" can be something like "ten or twenty percent of the overall force, and a lot of those will be back in action as soon as someone manages to do some basic repairs."
On the other hand, the Victorian lack of a solid repair establishment may be biting them in the ass here. For just about any maintenance/repair job on their tanks heavier than "replace a broken track," they may be relying on a very short-handed crew of mechanics and technicians.
[X] Plan Yummy Loot
-[X] As a reaction force to counter any dangerous crossings, most especially in terms of Victorian armor.
-[X] Yes. You have confirmed some mission kills on Victorian armor, but you haven't eliminated them as a force. You needs the Abrams tanks in place.
-[X] Retreat across the river and blow it now. Clever tactics are not worth the risk of the Victorians managing to seize and hold the bridge.
-[X] The Navy will withdraw from Monroe; you don't think you need them. Instead, they will go to that grounded laker ship and have their marine complements board it, clearing out the Victorian soldiers and making it so civilian vessels from Detroit can begin looting the vessel.
-[X] Allow them both to observe.
The Erie Campaign
Past the Turning Point
-Chicago, Illinois, United States of America-
-Commonwealth of Free Cities-
-Wednesday, April 3, 2075, 7:03 PM-
-Sara Johnson, President of the Commonwealth-
-of course, that is not a proper briefing, or even really an adequate summary of the situation. I hope you forgive the melodrama.
"Shut up, Sara," you growl as your friend howls with laughter in her chair.
"Sorry, not sorry!" she cackles, wiping away a tear. "Oh, this is glorious!"
"I prefer informative," you say, trying to suppress a smile. "But yes, I'm glad to have all we've achieved set out like that. It was beautifully presented. Shut up."
She subsides, waving you on while still grinning. You sigh and return to the report.
Now, you'll have heard the broadcast I approved, but the man who gave it was not trying to paint a complete picture of the military situation. Fair's fair, he did not have a complete picture of the military situation.
I, on the other hand, do. We made contact with the first Victorian assault at 0821 on Tuesday.
* * *
-Monroe, Michigan, United States of America-
-Unorganized Territories-
-Tuesday, April 2, 2075 8:08 AM-
-Thomas Swan, New York Times-
Thomas Swan is a completely legitimate reporter for the New York Times, carrying a press pass and here with the full knowledge and blessing of his employers. He has never even been to Germany. He has had no more contact with German nationals than any other New Yorker, these days. He has lived in Queens his entire life. The closest he has ever been to working for Germans has been in pestering them in bars for tips for his next column. He is most certainly not somebody with any substantive connection to them.
Now, with all that being said: his BND handler is going to absolutely love this stuff.
He leans out the window of the building he's in, up on the second story, and takes another picture of the lines, this time focusing on a pillbox overlooking the ruins of the I-75 bridge. He catches the woman manning the gun as she peers out into the fading morning mist, eyes scrunched in a menacing grimace. He reviews it, grinning. "Now that's a good one," he mutters to himself.
His escort, a young private with the name, "Sanchez," stamped on her flak vest, peers over his shoulder. "Hey, nice shot," she remarks.
He grins back at her. "I'm getting great material," he says. He starts paging through his pictures. "So, ah...what made you sign up?" he asks. "We don't get a lot of news in New York about you folks..."
"I was part of the Chicago Militia," she replies. "Got folded into the Liberators when the Convention finished up."
"But why'd you sign up in the first place?" he asks, looking up at her.
"Free meals," she answers, shrugging. "Like, I don't get political about it, y'know? Mayor Johnson -- well, Prez Johnson, now -- she takes care of her own. Only, she can't do it for everybody, so you want your folks eating all right, you go find somebody who can handle that for you. Me, I didn't know anybody big, but the Militia's always taking new folks. Been years since we've had any Nazis to kill, but the Mayor always wanted us ready just in case." She gestures around her. "Guess she had the right idea. I couldn't make the cut for the Air Patrol or the Navy, but the Militia usually just needed people who could shoot straight and not salute when they saw a swastika. I could handle that, so I got my meal ticket punched for life. Got my mom and brothers eating, too, with the money I could send them."
"Doesn't the Commonwealth provide food for everybody?" says Swan, putting his camera away and taking out a note pad.
Sanchez snorts. "Shit, New York must be nicer than I thought."
Swan flushes in embarrassment and lifts his chin trying to stop it. "It's not all roses."
She rolls her eyes. "Yeah, but you still think feeding everybody's just as simple as saying that you'll do it. You just wait for the next shipment from Europe." She pulls out a candy bar and starts unwrapping it. "Y'see this? I couldn't afford these things this time last year. All my money went to buying food for Mom. All this new food? That's new food, Yankees fan. The Commonwealth is less than two years old. We've only been building good farming equipment for Cornland for a year now. We've had the first harvest from that for a couple months." She takes a bite out of her candy bar. "Do you have any idea how far a chocolate bar has to travel for me to make a point out of eating it in front of you?"
Swan glances between her and the chocolate. "...I'm sorry if I offended you. I was just curious."
Sanchez wave shim off. "Nah, nah, I'm just touchy. Food's a touchy subject in general for Commonwealthers. Our next-door neighbors haven't made themselves very popular with the games they're playing." She takes another bite. "But yeah. Used to be that you needed to work hard to find food for your family. Getting in the Militia was a good deal. The Mayor takes care of you if you're working for her. I guess now that she can afford it, she takes care of you if she can get her hands on you." She shrugs. "From what I hear, that's unusual. I guess I like unusual."
Swan glances away. "...so, you didn't sign up to fight for your home?"
Sanchez snorts. "I don't mind fighting for it, if that's what you're asking." She shrugs. "If you've got four little brothers and only three of them can eat any given week, you start looking at everything that way. Now, though?" She glances out into the fog. "General Burns and President Jameson fed everybody. Long as they're in charge, my brothers and my mom'll never go hungry again." Her grip tightens on her rifle. "I figure if you're gonna fight for anything, fight for that. You won't get that kind of promise from Victorians."
Swan is opening his mouth to follow that train of thought a little while farther when he hears the sound of shouting from down towards the river. He glances over and sees soldiers running back and forth and getting into position.
Then, from the first floor of the building they're in, he hears someone shouting, "Sanchez! Scouts just spotted the Vicks' advance elements! Ten minutes out!"
"Got it, Sarge!" she shouts back, pushing away from the wall. "C'mon, Yankees fan. You're not cleared for the front."
Swan turns back to the window, raising his camera. "Just give me a few more minutes to get some-"
Sanchez reaches out and snags him by the collar. "Now. Only reason we don't already have mortar shells raining down around our ears is because the Vicks are idiots about arty." She starts walking for the stairs, and despite his protests, Swan does not prove up to the task of actually stopping this.
From further back, the sound of artillery, already a fairly constant undertone, picks up dramatically, as the big guns start lofting shells into pre-sighted approach corridors along the Victorians' path of advance.
* * *
By the time the Victorians reached our lines, they'd been enduring a week of slogging through a rain of artillery, all while dealing with the mud. Having pre-sighted every stopping point they could use and stripped the entire area of supplies, we found it simple to make things hell on them. Victorians forage. They brought a lot of supplies for this campaign -- presumably, some reformist had enough pull to bring them along. That said, their instinct is foraging, and the entire force advancing on us had at most seven hundred logistics personnel to manage their supplies.
By the time they made their way through our bombardments, with us always hitting every stopping point once they had time to dig in for the night, I'm sure they had far less. They showed up mad and eager for a fight, but they were also tired, twitchy, and hungry.
Give them all the credit they're due, though -- they didn't hesitate. The second they showed up, they started launching assaults on our lines. Of course, they expected us to dig in along the south bank of the river. Victorians always expect their opponents to be hesitant to cede ground without a fight.
Honestly, for us, the hardest part was getting the scouts back on the right side of the river. Even that wasn't too difficult, though. By the time the Victorians reached Monroe, none of our soldiers were still south of the river. Anybody who was still up and in the fight fell back across on small boats. The rest, we sank with gunfire. No sense leaving anything for the Vicks to use.
That, then, was the shape of things when the Victorians began their assault. On one side, us -- bolstered by our victories here and elsewhere, dug in along a river line, and very well fed. On the other, them -- near starving, furious, and denied a fight they had been sure they'd get, and struggling to get to, for a week straight.
When you put it that way, it's not surprising that they reacted as they did.
* * *
Bleed Them At the Raisin: Commonwealth vs. Victoria
Rolled: 8 vs. 4. Success.
-Monroe, Michigan, United States of America-
-Unorganized Territories-
-Tuesday, April 2, 2075, 8:21 AM-
"VICTORIA!"
With that shout, Victorian soldiers stand as one and begin firing from the buildings at the south bank of the River Raisin. A staccato thump rings out as their mortars loft shells across the river. The storm sends the Commonwealth soldiers on the north bank ducking for cover, trying to avoid shrapnel and bullets. For a minute, the fire continues, pinning down the Commonwealth troops.
But then, the mortars stop firing as their operators, per Victorian doctrine, begin packing up to relocate, against the possibility of counter-battery fire. The Victorian soldiers, seeing their opponents, feel victory in their hearts.
And, despite the plan being just to occupy Commonwealth forces, they too follow their doctrine, and several units exercise their independent initiative to begin forging forward into what they believe to be the breaking Cultural Marxists on the north bank. Then their comrades who stayed in place, realizing that they might be minutes from providing evidence of cowardice to their CMC minders, move forward in turn. Then their neighbors, then theirs, until the entire line is shuffling forward in a disorganized charge. The resulting pause in gunfire, and complete halt in mortar fire, has the Commonwealth troops peeking out over the edges of their fortifications, and witnessing the Victorians trying to wade or swim across the Raisin, secure in their own safety. And, to be fair, it is a charge that has worked many times before, against opponents too disorganized not to break under a volley of mortar fire, against enemies too certain of their impending demise to fight back.
But now they fight the Commonwealth, and for all its soldiery's flaws, they have been primed for this moment for months.
It's only a moment more before the machine gunners aim their weapons and begin to fire, and the Victorians in the lead realize that no, the Commonwealth is not remotely broken at all.
* * *
Close the Trap: Big Red One vs. Moses Division
Rolled: Irrelevant vs. Not Enough. Success.
-Detroit, Michigan, United States of America-
-City-State of Detroit-
-Tuesday, April 2, 2075, 12:43 PM-
-Barack Williams, Freelance, For the New Chicago Tribune-
"Victoria." And with that cry, I saw the Victorians charge. Or swim, if I'm to be more accurate. Dunno if they were fast, but here, from the feeds, it seemed so slow, even as I knew that river to be not as small as it looked. Then the guns passed over them. Bullets are hard to see on a feed, easier to see by the water sprays than the lead. The water sprays would pass over Victorians, and they would stop.
I felt like it should have a profound impact; like all this death should matter. Joy, horror, anything. But watching from my bunker, through live feeds, it wasn't. I thought there should be more blood, but human bodies aren't that big, bullet holes aren't that big, and there wasn't a lot of blood. They just started making their way into the river, and then they are floating downstream.
Why didn't they stop? So many dead, and continuing on, but they just kept going in that river, even as it seemed pointless to me.
Then the bombardments on their end started up again. Gunners didn't fire as much then, and Victorians started coming in earnest. They made it halfway across, then the Commonwealth artillery started. It was the gunners, magnified. Couldn't see the shells, but I could hear them, and I could see the effects. Oh, could I see those. River flew up in plumes. It was almost pretty, in such death.
Finally got to see the blood. Bodies flying apart, so small, so far away, like toys. Couldn't follow the artillery, some of the Vicks seemed to start and stop. When they started pounding, some made it through, but otherwise...little. Still, there were times when their artillery was going, and Commonwealth's wasn't, that they would get a little closer each time. First few times only a few of em got near shore, and then they stopped moving, dead to any number of things.
Never did see any make it, and finally my hosts said that they wanted to change the feed, show me something really special. The CMC was out, and we have a live feed from a Devil Brigade camera.
I had an uncle once who loved his magic tricks. Did a number of them, but always loved the coin behind the ear, looks so proud of it. I always found it awkward, cause compared to entire doves, coins weren't much, but he was so proud of it I always tried to look appreciative.
Sort of felt like that about the CMC. There were a bunch of tanks on the far side of the river. and a set of bunkers that didn't look so good, some corpses that looked Commonwealth, not just Victorian. They were arranged in what looked to be a nice formation. Then some of 'em started exploding. Saw the ground move as they moved to the camera, and the camera moved away, and more and more of 'em exploded. Occasionally the camera shook, presumably from the tank firing.
Repeat. Again and again.
Like I know if I was a tank man this would be really impressive I'm sure, but compared to the maneuvering I saw when they faced the militia, it was kinda... boring.
I went and looked appreciative, and oohed and awwed, but honestly, the river earlier was more impressive, the Victorians could really look like the sort of thing you think of when someone says "endless horde."
After that, they moved back to the infantry battle. The Commonwealth was packing up to move to the next line. Saw the Victorians make progress right as the gunners stopped firing, but the artillery held 'em at bay. By the time they made it to shore, people were already running from the bunkers. Saw my first up-close Victorian army, wet and looking like they'd been through hell. Then the explosions started, blowing the bunkers sky high.
Far as I could tell, everyone got away.
Still can't help but notice that my handlers saying it was time to move aside, seems like they could have held 'em there for a good while longer, so why move? Unless the lines I didn't see had fallen, and I know the one near the CMC had, so how many others? Hope the battle was more successes than failures.
* * *
We took casualties, I won't lie. The Victorians forced crossings in two places. We simply did not have the troops to strongly defend every crossing, and soldiers died in these places -- although we managed to pull back the majority of the forces there.
The CMC Division -- which we identified from destroyed enemy equipment as the 2nd, "Moses," Division -- crossed well upstream, closer to the village of Dundee than to Monroe. Presumably, they wanted to bypass the strongpoint Monroe presented as much as possible. Savior Division, meanwhile, crossed a ways west of Monroe, near a small airstrip on the west edge of town. The Big Red One responded to Moses Division. They crossed first -- their vehicles were amphibious, and didn't need to wait for a pontoon bridge.
Frankly speaking, it was a massacre. The Abrams made this completely unfair, not that you'll see me complaining. We picked them apart at maximum range. Oftentimes, they couldn't even acquire us. We had the occasional problems with them launching anti-tank missiles, but they weren't able to accomplish much. Some tanks are reporting battle damage, and we've depleting our reserve of spare parts, but the equipment remains operational.
And in exchange, we ripped up the Division's armored assets. Everything with tracks or wheels was nonfunctional. Still, they refused to surrender or fall back.
So we charged.
Against a proper armored spearhead, supported by advanced mechanized infantry, after a long march and the loss of all of their vehicle assets...it was never going to be anything but a slaughter. They seem to have known that. They were screaming prayers the entire time, even as they kept fighting just as well as ever. Presumably, they envisioned a glorious last stand, dying well against the Cultural Marxist threat. Well, we didn't give it to them. We fought smart and leveraged every millimeter of edge our equipment gave us. Most of them never really stood a chance.
The CMC's 2nd Mechanized Infantry Division, "Moses," no longer exists. Credit where it's due -- they fought to the last man. And they did it live, over their own radios.
The second Victorian lodgment, the one Savior Division established, used this time well, however. They sorted themselves out and began bringing infantry divisions across as well. The Big Red One was out of position to respond in time, and honestly, they needed a break. It was a day of truly intense fighting, in the largest armored engagement the continent has seen since the Pacific War. They couldn't have done it in a day at all, had the CMC not been so obliging about dying quickly and violently. The Division needed a break, and a lodgment that large and well-established was not something I was confident in our ability to puncture. So we pulled back, falling back towards the second line along the Huron River.
Thus, the casualty report I gave earlier. Five divisions destroyed, in their entirety or simply as fighting forces, on the eastern front, scattered from the beaches of Leamington to the Essex Line. An estimated three brigades destroyed outright in ill-conceived pinning assaults across the Raisin line. The CMC's 2nd Division, wiped out in its entirety. Earlier, of course, we destroyed the Victorian Navy for the second time. And then, the air craft.
I will let General Franks explain in full, but thanks to her extensive study of Victorian air doctrine, she helped us conceive a truly brutal trap for the VAF during the fighting over the Raisin Line, one which saw the vast majority of their scouting and air superiority forces grossly overextended over our lines before we opened fire on them. Their air force has been dealt a heavy blow, and it is doubtful that they'll have the confidence to field planes over our forces for a long time. We believe they have twenty or fewer jets remaining operational. Our count of downed air craft is estimated, and includes air frames lost to circumstance rather than our action, as stated earlier, over two hundred and thirty air craft removed from action.
All told, the engagement was an unqualified success. We have succeeded to the absolute limit of our expectations, and I am entirely confident in our ability to win the battle. At this point, barring gross unforced errors, I believe that it is time for the Government to begin plans for our activities following a successful Battle of Detroit.
Meanwhile, Admiral Romano was busy. The Victorians attempted to resupply their Leamington force during the storm; in the process, they lost a massive cargo ship. Romano's task was to bring the Navy over and, using their marine complements, board and secure it.
* * *
Crew Expendable: Commonwealth versus Victoria
Rolled: 9 vs. 7. Success.
-Lake Erie, Ontario, Canada-
-City-State of Detroit-
-Tuesday, April 2, 2075, 11:47 PM-
-Captain Shauna Young, Commonwealth Navy Marine Corps-
Captain Shauna Young stands at the bow of her assault boat, peering up the side of the massive cargo ship. In the dark of the night, the only sign that it ends is that the stars simply black out at some point far overhead.
To her left, one of the boat's crew continues cutting through the side of the ship with a stick welder, sparks spraying down into the water below.
The sailor in charge of the landing boat taps Young on the shoulder. "Thirty seconds, ma'am," he whispers.
She nods and turns to the rest of the marines in the boat. "All right," she says. "If they knew we were here, they'd be shooting at us by now. I guess being rabid doesn't give you better eyes." She smirks. "I know you all are nervous about this, but remember: this is just another operation. This time, the pirates are tough and the ship is big, but it's just like normal. Stay together, stay smooth, and do not fucking miss any doors or corners. These motherfuckers think they're going up against Army grunts."
At that, there is a very quiet chuckle, quickly stifled by some harsh whispers from the Sergeant in charge.
Young doesn't remark further on it. Instead, she lets her smirk widen into a grin. "They don't think Navy's important; they don't think we count as real soldiers. Show 'em how wrong they are. Find the charges, clear the ship." She points to where the crewman is finishing his cut. "Stack up."
They do, and after a moment, the stick welder cuts off with a final, crackling hiss. The crewman braces himself against the sudden weight as the section of hull sags outward. "Ready," he hisses under his breath, visibly straining. One of the other sailors steps up to help him.
Young toggles her radio on the company net. "Osprey Actual, in position." She waits for a few moments, hearing the platoon leads sound off as their units finish their own cuts and get into position. When they do, she nods to herself and hefts her rifle. "Breach."
The sailors let the hull plate fall down into the Lake, and the marines storm through, slipping one by one into the bowels of a ship filled with Victorian soldiers who have no idea they've just been boarded.
By the time the alarm is raised, the marines are already defusing the charges the Victorians have set.
By the time the officer in charge manages to order an effective response, there's very little left for him to order a response with.
The whole thing is over in an hour.
The laker, VCS Niagara, is now in Commonwealth hands. Civilian ships from Detroit are heading out to take possession and unload the cargo. Given the clearing weather, the ship itself will survive to be salvaged. You'll probably lose some of the cargo to misappropriation, but there's frankly no way to avoid that; your own merchant marine is busy sprinting supply shipments from home.
* * *
Madame President, I can confidently report that our operations have been a total success. We have fallen back to the Huron Line, and all units remain ready for combat. Losses are sustainable. Barring disaster, we have won the battle.
With that in mind, I turn to how we intend to do that.
The Victorians appear to have fractured somewhat in their response to this disaster. This is to the good, but it presents at least moderate difficulties in the medium term. Namely, according to our scouting elements, Savior Division and elements of the infantry divisions we mauled in our assault across the Raisin -- far less than even a single division's worth -- are committing to sprints to the Huron Line. Given the lack of support, we assume this to be a death ride, intended to go out in a blaze of glory while causing as many casualties as possible. I do not seriously credit it as a threat; we have the numbers to comfortably repel this assault.
More concerning is what the rest of the force is doing. Namely, falling back across the Raisin and digging in on the south bank.
Taken together, I believe this death ride to be something meant to force us to respond and prevent us from reacting to the Victorians' effort to entrench themselves. Furthermore, it would seem that Monroe is where the Victorians intend to make their stand; our signals analysis team reports that radio traffic within the City of Toledo has all but ceased, and there is increasing traffic along the paths to Monroe. The Army appears to have resigned itself to obliteration; I believe it now intends to make its death as painful for us as it can. This impression only deepens with the fact that we have found the remainder of the Victorians' present merchant marine: two lakers and four smaller ships, all setting out from the Lake Erie islands. Given their speed, we expect them to be unloaded. They are making way directly for the Navy.
The Victorian commanders appear to have decided to have us burn their ships for them. Morale shaken or not, their soldiers will understand now that there is no retreat for them.
This may be very painful indeed.
The VAF remains held up in Toledo; the division on the Lake Erie Islands appears to be remaining in place. Our signals analysis has actually picked up panicked, uncoded transmissions from the remnants of the eastern force; apparently, local populations are beginning to prey on the dispersing Victorian soldiers.
All other fronts are secure; all that remains is the impending last stand of the southern force. To summarize our estimate of the situation: Savior Division and the equivalent of a severely understrength infantry division are launching a death ride on the Huron Line. Three to four infantry divisions' worth of troops are digging in on the south bank of the Raisin, with another traveling north from Toledo (ETA absent interference: three days). One infantry division remains on the Lake Erie Islands, and we believe it to be stranded lest they wish to test our naval dominance. No coherent combat forces remain to the east of Detroit, although we expect the area to devolve into low-grade warfare as local populations take the opportunity to extract their pound of flesh from the dispersing Victorian troops.
One and a half divisions of our forces are on station at the Huron line. Minimal forces remain between the Huron and the Rouge. The Detroit Militia is deployed to this area, and cannot realistically deploy beyond the Huron Line. I estimate that our forces will be able to deal with the suicide force and begin offensive operations against the Raisin Line in five days' time, at the earliest.
The situation is developing, and I will apprise you of our plans as my office develops them.
Respectfully Yours,
Ron J. Burns.
The engagement at the Raisin was decisively in your favor, and General Burns is firmly of the opinion that the tide has turned. The Victorians appear to agree. They are sacrificing Savior Division and some of their infantry to buy time, and bringing everything else into last-stand mode at the Raisin Line, aside from the Lake Erie Island force, which presumably is preparing to reenact the Second World War's Pacific Front as experienced by the Empire of Japan. You cannot realistically prevent them from getting into position; the question is how you want to deal with the suicide force, and how you want to approach this last stand. The battle is almost over. How do you wish to end it?
[ ] Plan [NAME]
Savior Division appears to be choosing glory over survival, along with some of the survivors of those divisions who attempted to cross the River Raisin. How would you like to eradicate them?
-[ ] Defend with available forces. They simply cannot force the Huron with worse than two-to-one odds. Commit the Big Red One if somebody really fucks up, but otherwise just let them batter themselves to death. Head out and finish them once they're incapable of resisting you. Estimated three days to total force destruction. Uses a charge of OWE in the unlikely event that the BRO needs to step in.
-[ ] Defend with all committable forces. Bring up all of your troops and all of the Detroit Militia. You don't just want to win this one; you want to utterly smash this assault and enjoy numerical superiority for a change. Afterwards, you can wipe them out easily. With this force, you won't even hypothetically need the Big Red One. Estimated two days to total force destruction. The BRO will not in any case be needed.
After you deal with the suicide force, you will have to deal with the Victorians' last stand, which will entail resting and resupplying your forces to go on the offensive against prepared defenses. How will you approach this?
-[ ] Full assault. Commit everything you possibly can. Without the Big Red One, this would not be feasible. With them, it will merely be bloody. Uses a charge of OWE. Certainty of high casualties, possibility of extreme casualties. Three days to prepare and begin offensive operations. Swift resolution, likely within a week one way or the other.
-[ ] Limited assault. Don't try to smash them outright, but you cannot countenance just letting them be. Begin launching probing attacks across a wide area. Force them to spread their forces and strain their logistics. Wear down their supplies and weaken them for the final clash. Does not use a charge of OWE. Certainty of limited casualties. Possibility of moderate casualties. Five days to prepare and begin offensive operations. Slower resolution, likely several weeks.
-[ ] Siege. Victorians do not get glorious last stands against you. They get run down like foxes before your tanks. They get picked apart from extreme range, useless prayers on their lips. This force will die the slow death of starvation and dwindling supplies. Only once they have lost any ability to present a threat to your forces will you close the noose on them. Does not use a charge of OWE. Possibility of light casualties. Possibility that the Victorians' nerve breaks and they resume their offensive. One week to prepare and begin offensive operations. Resolution will likely take a long time, possibly multiple months.
The Navy has a fleet of unarmed cargo vessels bearing down on them.
-[ ] Sink them. They want smoke plumes on the horizon to signal their men, they can have them.
-[ ] Capture them. Hey, if Victoria doesn't want the tonnage, you can see some use in them.
What will the Navy do in support of the final destruction of the Victorian Army?
-[ ] Full bombardment. The Navy will commit to intense shore bombardment of Victorian positions, trying to destroy as many troops and materiel as they possibly can to burn through the Victorians supplies and manpower.
-[ ] Scouting missions. Whatever you do on land, you'll need accurate and up-to-date information to do it. With control of the sea, you might even be able to force naval landings behind the River Raisin and circumvent Victoria's main defensive barrier.
-[ ] Blockade. All of this could be undone if Victoria manages to slip transport ships to its cut-off forces. Ensure that that cannot happen.
And, for all options:
-[ ] Write-in. Tag me with them to get featured in the vote unlock post.
APPROVAL VOTING. MANUAL MORATORIUM.
And we're live.
Thanks to @clockworkchaos for contributing their character from their ongoing and excellent canon omake series, Dispatches From Detroit, which you can read in the Sidestory threadmarks. Barack Williams, freelance reporter who now has way more popularity than he knows what to do with, now has a name! Thanks to clockworkchaos as well for actually writing Williams's passage. I appreciate your work!
This update was supposed to be a little over half as long as it turned out being. What have I done? I hope that you've all enjoyed this summation of the turning of the tide of battle! From here on out, it's a matter of how you wish to destroy the Victorians.
Questions and comments are welcome. I'll see y'all around the thread. I hope you've enjoyed, folks.
forums.spacebattles.com
