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Using The Force Made Easy

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Neruz said:
Generally speaking I would expect Sidious to be pretty neutral on the whole 'force made easy' videos, on the one hand he'd much rather keep that kind of knowledge as secret and exclusive as possible, on the other hand the existence of the videos significantly increases the potential pool of force-adept minions for him to corrupt and employ.

So the end result would be that he has more tools to use for the Great Plan, but those tools aren't the ones he would have wanted to have in ideal circumstances.

But Sidious is a pretty flexible guy when it comes to the Great Plan, he is more than willing to improvise if necessary; it annoys him, because he would much rather have everything go to plan. But he's man enough to admit (if only to himself) that nothing ever goes to plan and that adaptability is a simple necessity of reality.


He's also arrogant and short-sighted enough to not realize just how important knowledge of how to stop using the Dark Side really is in the grand scheme of things; he believes the Dark Side is superior to the Light, so it will literally never occur to him just how damaging the knowledge of how to not use the Dark Side would be to the Sith, if only because he would assume that everyone would obviously see how much better the Dark Side is if they ever actually looked.
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I think he'd be more upset about how the videos are forcing the Jedi to think at least a little about their weaknesses and blindspots. Because the Great Plan depends on exploiting those blindspots he really doesn't want the Jedi to realize they have them.
 
Zanfib said:
I think he'd be more upset about how the videos are forcing the Jedi to think at least a little about their weaknesses and blindspots. Because the Great Plan depends on exploiting those blindspots he really doesn't want the Jedi to realize they have them.
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Maybe, but given that he Jedi are still using hypercomms he knows that the Council is deadlocked and is keeping up to date with events inside the Order.

Plus, at least some of the weaknesses and blindspots (like the Jedi's vulnerability in war) he believes to be inherent flaws in the fundamental Jedi philosophy and thus not something the Order can fix.


So yeah, that's probably a potential problem from his point of view, but unless the Jedi look like they're actually going to undergo a fairly major revision it's not something that the Great Plan cannot deal with.
 
Mirriam Grave said:
I agree with this point-of-view, but throw in the fact that Kenobi, for all that he is as capable of daring-do as Anakin, is a being of CAUTION.
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He is a very precautious person, that's for sure
Fencer said:
Just wanted to throw out one more anecdote on the value of surprise in combat. Just to really explain why I'm placing so much value on an unusual style and a few unknown tricks.
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Let's not forget how Mushashi killed one of the most renown swordmasters of his era by pissing off him arriving 2 hours late to the duel...
Fencer said:
Hold up, this sounds very important and I've never heard it before. Details please?
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The sith had bugs in the hypercomms since the beginning. But I'm not really sure if that means they could hear all the conversations. I'm pretty sure that the Jedi encrypted their comms.
 
Faralis said:
The sith had bugs in the hypercomms since the beginning. But I'm not really sure if that means they could hear all the conversations. I'm pretty sure that the Jedi encrypted their comms.
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They did, they do, and yet there's no encryption that is unbreakable - The Sith just put hacking droids on it until they're revealed. It's slower but it eventually is revealed to them.

And not once did the Jedi think they had a com-line leak, from my memory.
 
Neruz said:
Good old Form IV, for when you want to say 'then I flipped out and killed people' and be completely literal about it.
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"right, so, today on the premium channel we will be going trough combat forms, as i have been buggered by my...whatever she is. slicer/deciple/student? meh. to teach her some forms. as you lot don't have lightsabers, and no, once again, i will not teach you how to make one. i am not THAT much into pissing the jedi council and their edgelord foes of. this, ofcourse means that the forms are basically useless for you guys, but some of them are kind of cool. and that, is why we are going to go trough what the jedi call form IV, clearly the worst form of them all if you don't have a saber, but also the one most likely to win you free drinks at the bar. what you do is..."
 
Fencer said:
Hold up, this sounds very important and I've never heard it before. Details please?
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The Sith have had pretty much the entire communication network of the Republic compromised for centuries, along with slipping bugs and trojan programs into everything they could get their hands on (like the omnipresent cleaning robots that everyone ignores).

Exactly how far this went is not entirely clear, but the general fanon consensus is that it must have been pretty much total because the Sith repeatedly demonstrate access to knowledge that they literally could not possibly know unless they were either listening in on or had copies of the vast majority of every hypercomm communication the Jedi ever made.

Despite this, at absolutely no point did the Jedi ever consider even the possibility that the hypercomm network was compromised, at least as far as I can remember. They thought they might have spies (and I believe they did, so yeah), they thought they might have renegades (and again, they did), but all of those added together couldn't possibly have accounted for more than a quarter of the Sith's knowledge, at best.


Yes, the Jedi used encrypted communications, but the Sith (well, Sidious at least) just countered that by having a metric shitload of electronic warfare droids hidden away all over the galaxy to decrypt things, and the Jedi were pretty damn complacent so their encryption was probably fairly bad anyway.

The compromised communications was also why even Obi-Wan and Anakin never managed a real win against the Separatists, and why the Sith were always one step ahead and never seemed to get surprised or caught off guard.


So yeah, that whole recording of the council arguing? Sidious absolutely has a copy of that which he has probably decrypted and watched by now, as keeping track of what's going on in the Jedi Council is a high priority in these final stages of the Great Plan.
 
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Neruz said:
The Sith have had pretty much the entire communication network of the Republic compromised for centuries, along with slipping bugs and trojan programs into everything they could get their hands on (like the omnipresent cleaning robots that everyone ignores).

Exactly how far this went is not entirely clear, but the general fanon consensus is that it must have been pretty much total because the Sith repeatedly demonstrate access to knowledge that they literally could not possibly know unless they were either listening in on or had copies of the vast majority of every hypercomm communication the Jedi ever made.

Despite this, at absolutely no point did the Jedi ever consider even the possibility that the hypercomm network was compromised, at least as far as I can remember. They thought they might have spies (and I believe they did, so yeah), they thought they might have renegades (and again, they did), but all of those added together couldn't possibly have accounted for more than a quarter of the Sith's knowledge, at best.


Yes, the Jedi used encrypted communications, but the Sith (well, Sidious at least) just countered that by having a metric shitload of electronic warfare droids hidden away all over the galaxy to decrypt things, and the Jedi were pretty damn complacent so their encryption was probably fairly bad anyway.


So yeah, that whole recording of the council arguing? Sidious absolutely has a copy of that which he has probably decrypted and watched by now, as keeping track of what's going on in the Jedi Council is a high priority in these final stages of the Great Plan.
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Daaaaamn that... changes things. I was going to put of his reactions until this hit major news networks but if that's the case he should already know.... fuck.

gotta think on this.
 
Fencer said:
Daaaaamn that... changes things. I was going to put of his reactions until this hit major news networks but if that's the case he should already know.... fuck.

gotta think on this.
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Calm down @Fencer there's plenty of time to devise a Palpatine interlude, or even just have a dark assassin or two come after Kesel.

Perfect motivation for "That's it! Delia You are making a lightsaber!"
 
Fencer said:
Daaaaamn that... changes things. I was going to put of his reactions until this hit major news networks but if that's the case he should already know.... fuck.

gotta think on this.
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If it's important that Sidious not notice until things have progressed a little further you could probably make a reasonable argument for him not having had the time to go through everything just yet; he is a busy man and in his arrogance it's not implausible that he might push keeping up to date on the Jedi off to the side for a bit because he's confident everything is going as planned. Even with droids filtering out stuff, most of the data generated by his spying must be pretty boring and irrelevant. And droids being droids, they could easily just not have tagged the 'using the force made easy' stuff as important because it never occurred to any of the Sith to keep an eye out for this and it doesn't fit into any of the 'urgent' categories programmed into the droids.

It is perhaps reaching a bit, but if the Senate just so happens to be involved in some very intensive diplomacy stuff right now that even Sidious can't excuse himself from regularly, I could see him putting off most of his Jedi spying under the assumption that there isn't anything new or important there because nothing ever happens with the Jedi, not realizing that the droids just couldn't figure out how to properly categorize this information due to it being so totally out of left field, or similar.

Like, he'd be aware that the Jedi Council is having an argument, but if he's being swamped in the Senate he could easily be all 'oh look the Jedi are arguing over something stupid again' and just assume that nothing important will happen there for a few months (because the Jedi never do anything quickly), so it's not urgent.
 
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Neruz said:
Like, he'd be aware that the Jedi Council is having an argument, but if he's being swamped in the Senate he could easily be all 'oh look the Jedi are arguing over something stupid again' and just assume that nothing important will happen there for a few months (because the Jedi never do anything quickly), so it's not urgent.
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But... isn't Plagieus still alive at this point? I can' t remember that timeline, precisely, but he would absolutely be interested in the tutorials whereas Sideous is politics guy.
 
kaosisreality said:
But... isn't Plagieus still alive at this point? I can' t remember that timeline, precisely, but he would absolutely be interested in the tutorials whereas Sideous is politics guy.
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Leechblade said:
It's my understanding that Sideous killed him during or before the Naboo debacle.
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Nope, Sidious stabbed Plagueis to death in his sleep the night before he was elected Supreme Chancellor at the conclusion of Episode 1.

Note the extremely un-Sith-like nature of this act for a Baneite Sith; yet another example of how Sidious gives zero fucks about Sith philosophy and just wants to be king of the galaxy. (Either because he needs a united galaxy to survive against the oncoming invasion by the Yuuzhan Vong, or because he's just a power-hungry dickbag, depending on Legends or Disney canon respectively.)
 
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Pretty sure he was just a power-hungry dickbag in Legends too, because if he was trying to prepare the galaxy for the oncoming invasion by the bootleg Dark Eldar he probably should have bothered to tell someone.
 
Honestly I wasn't putting it off for plot reasons so much as "good grief this is going to be annoying to get in character let me just push it down the line till later cuss I don't want to deal with it right now"

i was having to much fun fleshing out John and introducing Delia and generally corrupting Anakin.
 
Fencer said:
Honestly I wasn't putting it off for plot reasons so much as "good grief this is going to be annoying to get in character let me just push it down the line till later cuss I don't want to deal with it right now"

i was having to much fun fleshing out John and introducing Delia and generally corrupting Anakin.
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At the same time, remember what Palpy is up to right now:
  • Consolidating his power as Supreme Chancellor
  • Involving himself in the rebuilding of Naboo (which he needs to do to keep his image as the benevolent retired Hokage of the Village Hidden in the Legislature)
  • Tempting and then training Dooku in the Dark Side
  • Maneuvering several competing groups together to create the Separatist Movement
Any one of those would be a full time job; any two would result in multiple sleepless nights. Frankly at this juncture it's amazing that Palpatine managed to sleep any time in the decade between Episodes 1 and 2. It would be completely believable for something to come out of left field that he wasn't prepared for; he probably set his Jedi-monitoring droids to only interrupt him if they had a meeting that was directly about him or the Sith, and John doesn't count as either.
 
TheEyes said:
At the same time, remember what Palpy is up to right now:
  • Consolidating his power as Supreme Chancellor
  • Involving himself in the rebuilding of Naboo (which he needs to do to keep his image as the benevolent retired Hokage of the Village Hidden in the Legislature)
  • Tempting and then training Dooku in the Dark Side
  • Maneuvering several competing groups together to create the Separatist Movement
Any one of those would be a full time job; any two would result in multiple sleepless nights. Frankly at this juncture it's amazing that Palpatine managed to sleep any time in the decade between Episodes 1 and 2. It would be completely believable for something to come out of left field that he wasn't prepared for; he probably set his Jedi-monitoring droids to only interrupt him if they had a meeting that was directly about him or the Sith, and John doesn't count as either.
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So basically, Windu wasn't at blame for turning Palpatine into a prune, he did it to himself, covered it up and during the battle the glamour simply fell down?
 
Fencer said:
Daaaaamn that... changes things. I was going to put of his reactions until this hit major news networks but if that's the case he should already know.... fuck.
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Keep in mind that being able to listen to any com line in the galexy is not the same as having the time to having the time to listen to every com line in the galexy, or even every one the Jedi Masters use.
As long as something isn't a common topic of discussion it would be easy for the Sith to miss hearing about it for weeks if that's how you want it to go.
 
Zealous Specter said:
That is still really, really hard to believe, and is straining against the sense of disbelief in this story. Unless the MC has another force user he's spars with occasionally, that we just aren't aware of yet. Kenobi's experience alone would beat any advantage the MC could potently have with his sports incorporated saber style. Like the MC never even became a Padawan, or had experience fighting others with lightsabers since he left the order that we are aware of.
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I was under the impression that Kenobi was simply saying that if he were to fall into the dark side( a huge boost in powah) then he was not confident he could take him down considering they were trading blows. Perhaps not evenly, but if Kessel were to fall it might make him an actual threat to kenobi.
 
There is a martial art known as Teras Kasi.

It was developed to fight Force-wielders, but it seems like something Kesel could cover in the vids.
 
Started this last night read mostly the story posts so might be treading old ground but i find myself wondering how many of the masters are kicking themselves over this? And not just because of him spreading basic teaching but his apparent talent. This guy went from failed youngling with only clothes on his back and a pilots license to functionally a knight/merchant who owns his own ship in 5 years and change on his own while supporting himself and pick up training or otherwise figuring it out on his own.

How many are wondering what kind of Jedi they could have made of him if they had saw his potential before he walked?
 
Blade4 said:
Started this last night read mostly the story posts so might be treading old ground but i find myself wondering how many of the masters are kicking themselves over this? And not just because of him spreading basic teaching but his apparent talent. This guy went from failed youngling with only clothes on his back and a pilots license to functionally a knight/merchant who owns his own ship in 5 years and change on his own while supporting himself and pick up training or otherwise figuring it out on his own.

How many are wondering what kind of Jedi they could have made of him if they had saw his potential before he walked?
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I think most of them really.

He could have been a legendary training master, a skilled Sentinel investigator, a deadly Guardian warrior, or even a wise and learned Consular archivist.

But instead, they cast him aside, simply for daring to ask questions that should have been answered properly.
 
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