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Using The Force Made Easy

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Fencer said:
Look when I started this project I was working with the movies as a foundation. Not disney, and certainly not the never ending stream of "what the hell" that came from the extended universe. The most impressive thing we see? Palps throws lightning, yoda lifts a single man fighter, the prequals? Maybe a bit more on the heavy lifting and they really push the whole ability to deflect blaster fire up a notch but we don't see anyone consume the life force of a planet. We don't se anyone stop a ship with sub-light engines running, we don't see anyone pull capital ships into a planet from low orbit. And we aren't going to. Because I'm not that kind of writer and this isn't that kind of story. I'm not, I won't, and I refuse to feel sorry about that. If anyone with a laptop could write up stories that broke canons power scale and get it rubber stamped so Lucas can rake in money I can absolutely nock the power scale back down to where it started for a story I'm writing for free.
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I was asking because you have mentioned things like the Russsan Reformation in the story so you are bring things in from outside the moves. The way the battles for Russsan Ended and the War of Light and Dark is kind of important for how the Jedi order does things at the start of the Prequels as a example. That's why I asked how much the MC knows about Galatic History for this story because their were points in Galactic history when their were a lot more Jedi then their were at the start of the Prequels. They were spread out across the Galaxy being more then just monks and knowledge of how to use the force was a bit more widespread which could help John work out what his goals really are and the impact he could have.

If things like Thought Bombs for example are over powered to you then then is it more the number of living being across the Galaxy that could gain a little bit of ability with the force that is really worrying to council on Corascant. The "power levels" of force users was not really the point of my question so much as John understanding of the impact the Jedi and Sith have had on the Galaxy over time.


You are free to do your story how ever you want and I am happy you are keeping the story going.

FullNothingness said:
John's training is honestly vastly better set up to create a lot of minor force users than to create any truly exceptional ones. The training to gain force sensitivity works better on the low end and he isn't providing intensive training. So while a lot of people may gain some skill creating a exceptional force user probably requires more than holovids.
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I don't disagree but then how much trouble could people who pick up only the bare basics from watching the videos really be. The story and the premise have been good but that is a bit of a question in my mind.

nuthenry2 said:
i mean if a single person can drag a ship out of Orbit why can't a group of force users work together to achieve the same effect but no, only the special person gets to use the ability)
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While I get were your coming from and even agree we never actually see a group of force users in quite the situation the USA presented in the Force Unleashed game at any point in any official media so it could be possible. Also the game does not present what happened as something Starkiller could do whenever he wanted but something he was able to pull of only because of a unique set of circumstances. The Star Destroyer was only a couple of miles from the Planets surface and all he really did was help the Planets gravity pull the ship down to crash into the surface, Star Destroyers are not the most aerodynamic things.
 
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The Extended Universe
  • Informational
    • Look, to put things bluntly? I've been treating the extended universe as an incredibly vague and unimportant timeline that occasionally offers up things I can use. Like the Russan reformation. In broad strokes, Jedi used to follow a different code and had a lot more political military power because back then they lead the fight against an actual army of Sith. Then they said time to stop and they became a religious order that for some reason are also warrior monks because Lucas had a hard on for ancient japan? Maybe? Also presumably because the combat was part of the culture at that point and no one was willing to give up the plasma swords.

    I don't know the nitty gritty, and I don't need to, to make that work. Just that covers everything I need it too. Precogs with actual training in tactics make for some pretty intimidating generals and admirals and officers and at that point there were enough Force users on both sides for that to be a real concern. And the ones who rise up even farther end up running a government because they know what the soldiers need and prioritize it and the citizens do as their told because one side doesn't give them an option and the other is afraid of being massacred if they lose.

    Bam done. Any legends about using the Force to drag capital ships out of orbit or similarly crazy incidents are exaggerations and legends and propaganda. That ship just had it's engines shot out and some dramatic fucker hammed it up for the ignorant non force sensitive troops. The planet some guy ate to empower himself? They unleashed a plague that attacks all carbon based life. Space werewolves created by force alchemy? yeah the alchemy was a factor but also the sith were just too willing to play with biological weapons. Bam settled.

    Sure there are a lot of cool extra powers that people worked in freaking everywhere, but so what? Just scale them to match the rest of the setting and you're golden. That's not hard at all. As for things happening in the present around the galaxy? I don't know all the groups. It might take a dedicated research team to figure out every legends force sect active at that time and the report would probably take hours to read. But who cares. It's not like I can cover all of them.

    And I can pick the name of a planet out of a hat and invent a force sect just as easily if I need one, or introduce a crazy hermit, or a trio of polyamorous lesbian grannies that sell potions that sorta work and have a little bit of force mojo behind them.

    Yeah canon and Legends are good for inspiration and I feel like I've failed if this fic doesn't include Satine giving obi-wan a look while holding out a green Jedi robe, but this is a freeform chaotic mess unconstrained by any sort of canon rails. John is unlikely to learn every listed Force power from the wiki, or meet every group and maybe that's a little disappointing but I think it's fine because realistically he has just shaken the entire galaxy like a maraca and the only guarantee is chaos.
     
  • Informational
    • Stewart9 said:
    I don't disagree but then how much trouble could people who pick up only the bare basics from watching the videos really be. The story and the premise have been good but that is a bit of a question in my mind.
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    On its own people who just watch the vids and practice are probably not that much trouble. The people who are more likely to be trouble are people who use the training in combination with other skills to become more dangerous. People who already have experience as a soldier, bounty hunter or fighter pilot who pick up force training in addition are likely to get quite a bit more dangerous.

    In the end I think one of the main ways this starts to destabilize things is that the availability of John's training will on the whole spread out power more. Governments and other powerful entities often become such because they hoard things like weaponry and ships that give them their power. Freely available Force training is a means for anyone to level the playing field a bit more since it can't easily be hoarded. That could mean that any entity that represses people now has a harder time doing so. Which can be good or bad depending on if the people being repressed are going to be an improvement or not.

    So IMO in the mid term at least I expect rebellions and criminals to get more dangerous. Which will start shifting things politically. Any government that has the support of its people will likely have an easier time than a repressive one. Another thing that changed that is going to maybe matter a lot for derailing canon is that droids just became less viable on the whole since they don't benefit from the proliferation of Force knowledge. This means that the whole Separatist MO just became less threatening on the whole.
     
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    I went into this fic not expecting to like it, but it was actually quite fun anyway. Thank you!

    Fencer said:
    "I'm going to be able to pay off the work I had done on the ship, and cover all our expenses for the last trip, and if this keeps up for another week, I'll be buying the ship a faster hyperdrive when we go back to Coreliia for the wedding."
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    Uh. Thaaaat sounds really, really low? A trillion is a million times a million. So with the incredibly low rate of 1 lonely credit per million views, that's still a million credits per trillion views. I'm pretty sure an upgraded hyperdrive doesn't cost as much as that, and some casual googling reinforces that belief.

    Could easily be excused/handwaved later as some of the funding from sites simply being passed along on a schedule (e.g. weekly) instead of instantly, though.
     
    Alivaril said:
    I went into this fic not expecting to like it, but it was actually quite fun anyway. Thank you!
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    Well thanks! I actually get that a lot. Between the people assuming it's a crack fic and the people expecting a power wank SI… yeah I've heard that 😅 glad you took a chance on it and that you are enjoying it!
    Alivaril said:
    Uh. Thaaaat sounds really, really low?
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    ….. ummm….. full honesty I gave that aspect zero thought. How much do youtuber's even make per ad? I always assumed it was basically nothing and that was why they all try to sell merch and find sponsors.
     
    Fencer said:
    ….. ummm….. full honesty I gave that aspect zero thought. How much do youtuber's even make per ad? I always assumed it was basically nothing and that was why they all try to sell merch and find sponsors.
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    Less than they used to, but google says 0.018$ per view. Credits don't map perfectly to dollars, obviously (EDIT: to be clear, I don't think the exact RL monetization matters, just in-story precedent). According to Wookiepedia:
    a Reddit post said:
    a brand new YT-1300 costs 100k credits.

    YT-1300 light freighter

    An Imperial I-class Star Destroyer cost 150 million

    Imperial I-class Star Destroyer
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    I didn't actually know that going into this, but what stood out to me was the need to maintain internal consistency. Like, earlier chapters talk about ad revenue getting kinda cushy in terms of buying power at much lower numbers, then that scaling seemed to unfavorably go out the window when we exploded into trillions. So I don't think you need to worry too much about figuring out exact numbers, but, uh.

    The big issue is that a trillion remains a trillion, and significant benefits were being awarded at orders of magnitude lower. A trillion is a Big Number.

    There are plenty of excuses to avoid retcons, though, including simple things like "major video sharing sites have safety measures in place to make sure someone doesn't fraudulently become rich, so it'll take at least a few weeks to get the payments signed off on and transferred."
     
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    Fencer said:
    Well thanks! I actually get that a lot. Between the people assuming it's a crack fic and the people expecting a power wank SI… yeah I've heard that 😅 glad you took a chance on it and that you are enjoying it!

    ….. ummm….. full honesty I gave that aspect zero thought. How much do youtuber's even make per ad? I always assumed it was basically nothing and that was why they all try to sell merch and find sponsors.
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    It very much depends on how big the streamer/youtuber is as well. Even discounting other things that being a bigger name gets you, people with bigger audiences and more consistent hits are able to get more at the bargaining table.
     
    Alivaril said:
    Less than they used to, but google says 0.018$ per view. Credits don't map perfectly to dollars, obviously (EDIT: to be clear, I don't think the exact RL monetization matters, just in-story precedent). According to Wookiepedia:


    I didn't actually know that going into this, but what stood out to me was the need to maintain internal consistency. Like, earlier chapters talk about ad revenue getting kinda cushy in terms of buying power at much lower numbers, then that scaling seemed to unfavorably go out the window when we exploded into trillions. So I don't think you need to worry too much about figuring out exact numbers, but, uh.

    The big issue is that a trillion remains a trillion, and significant benefits were being awarded at orders of magnitude lower. A trillion is a Big Number.

    There are plenty of excuses to avoid retcons, though, including simple things like "major video sharing sites have safety measures in place to make sure someone doesn't fraudulently become rich, so it'll take at least a few weeks to get the payments signed off on and transferred."
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    Huh, well thanks for that. Got to think on that before I make any decisions about if/how to edit things. And possibly do some rereading I vaguely remember working in one throwaway comment about ad revenue…. Right around when he interviewed the green Jedi I think, I remember thinking it's been a few months it has to have added up to at least something by this point, with the assumption that he hadn't dipped into those funds at that point. But that's it. If I did leave a major inconsistency I should patch it but if that's all I might just leave that one and try to keep it super vague going forward.

    I'll sleep on it, and ponder on it. And possibly put it off while I update my other fic.
     
    With the latest chapter, you honestly could just say that Jon is so in shock that he honestly just hadn't quite comprehended exactly how much money he suddenly ended up with and so just blurted out a few of his long-term goals that are suddenly immediately available without realizing that he has quite a bit more.
     
    5colouredwalker said:
    It's worth pointing out those prices are all over the place. So you could also say that ships are just more expensive than presented in the source books.
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    I mean, sure, but my point is that still leaves the original problem of the canon of this story demonstrating that significant buying power is being awarded at far lower view counts. That's the big stickler, imo, and what stood out to me; canon prices didn't matter to me, but the scaling didn't seem right.

    At the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable that a galaxy-influencing series with unprecedented reach due to the topic would reap unexpected rewards.

    Fencer said:
    And possibly do some rereading I vaguely remember working in one throwaway comment about ad revenue….
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    Oh, if you wanted to be quick you could do something like a word search for "revenue" or " ad " (spaces included) while in reader mode, but here was the bit I best remembered:
    Fencer said:
    "Want to try asking the Force then?" John asked.

    "Don't you want to pick our job? I mean some of these definitely pay better than others…"

    "True, but the ad revenue coming in from the videos is starting to add up faster and faster. More than enough to cover the difference from a few low paying jobs. And it can only go up so long as no one tries to get them taken down."
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    I think there might've been a few other instances of the extra funding paying for stuff, too, but "starting to be able to replace his actual job" was what was memorable for me.

    EDIT: From skimming, looks like the other major time was around the Green Jedi interview, yeah.
     
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    Fencer said:
    Bam done. Any legends about using the Force to drag capital ships out of orbit or similarly crazy incidents are exaggerations and legends and propaganda. That ship just had it's engines shot out and some dramatic fucker hammed it up for the ignorant non force sensitive troops. The planet some guy ate to empower himself? They unleashed a plague that attacks all carbon based life. Space werewolves created by force alchemy? yeah the alchemy was a factor but also the sith were just too willing to play with biological weapons. Bam settled.
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    You could say that the people completing such events are those incredibly powerful monsters. Beings that require once in a life time events to take place for them to even have a chance to form. Even then they require time and practice to perform such things. Darth Nihlus could still release a plague but that is only because it lets him eat things easier.

    That or like with the Thought Bomb it requires multiple practitioners to perform.
     
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    Alivaril said:
    I think there might've been a few other instances of the extra funding paying for stuff, too, but "starting to be able to replace his actual job" was what was memorable for me.
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    Oh jeez I forgot about that one. Yeah mostly I meant if say a high paying job is lets say a thousand credit profit after expenses and a low paying job is 8 hundred after expenses then he could make up the difference for a few of those with the ad revenue at least in my head but that's…. Yeah no the difference in payout would be a wider range wouldn't it. Hmmm

    BethofDeath said:
    And now I need this to be canon lmao
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    Honestly as soon as I typed it I knew it needed to happen. just three grannies casually making potions and flirting with each other and plying John and Delia with tea while he asks them questions about what they do. And Delia declaring these ladies are living her perfect retirement only she wants to be a slicer feeding the next generation puzzles and casually stealing from mega corporations instead of a potion maker.
     
    Fencer said:
    Honestly as soon as I typed it I knew it needed to happen. just three grannies casually making potions and flirting with each other and plying John and Delia with tea while he asks them questions about what they do. And Delia declaring these ladies are living her perfect retirement only she wants to be a slicer feeding the next generation puzzles and casually stealing from mega corporations instead of a potion maker.
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    Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Dathomiri grannies. Expatriate Dathomiri grannies, who are of the opinion that Dathomir sucks and nobody should go there. John and co. shouldn't actually go to Dathomir; whether you're looking at Disney Canon or LucasArts Legends, Dathomir is not the sort of place that anyone should be advertising as a nice vacation and/or Force tourism stop.
     
    "Oh, and here we have one that changes sexually dimorphic species to the other bi-modal distribution of traits over time. Takes a few doses, mind that dearies, but it does the job as far as you wanna take it!"

    "Indeed, indeed -- as the kiddies say these days, 'can confirm'!"

    "...um, nobody says that anymore."

    "Really!? Pity, I liked that one."

    "Congrats on the gender, though!"
     
    Alivaril said:
    I think there might've been a few other instances of the extra funding paying for stuff, too, but "starting to be able to replace his actual job" was what was memorable for me.
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    I think you misinterpreted that. He's not saying the revenue is enough to replace his job, he's saying that the revenue coming in is enough that he can skip a few minor jobs without ending up destitute.

    Look at it this way:

    You're working a job with flexible hours, You're choosing to work 40 hours a week at that job, and you're barely making your ends meet.
    You start up a youtube channel in your spare time.
    Eventually you get to a point you have 10,000 subscribers or so, and the ad revenue coming in is significant enough that if you miss a shift or two at work, you don't have to worry about not eating for a few days to make up the difference.
    Suddenly, you can bring your hours at work down to 30 hours a week, and still have a minor slush fund left over. So you're a lot more willing to take a day off for non-work related things.
    You still need to work your job to live, but you can work less, and still get by.

    And if you keep working the 40 hours after that? Well then you've got enough saved up before too long to make a big purchase or two.

    That's the situation John's been in recently.

    But now? One of your videos went viral, which got your other videos a lot more attention, making them go viral too, and you've suddenly got over a million subscribers, and you go from barely having enough cash to make ends meet, to rivaling Mr Beast with how much you're making in ad revenue.

    You've gone from earning enough to remodel your ship after several months of saving up, to being able to get those expensive upgrades you couldn't afford before after just a few days of your passive income. And you've made that transition overnight, waking up to an incredible surprise.

    That's the type of situation John's in at the moment. He's just reached the point where he can quit his job entirely and live off his youtube channel.
     
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    Darth Bayes said:
    The star destroyer thing is a lot sketchier. But maybe that's a time thing? Something takes vaguely around 5 minutes to fall from the edge of the atmosphere, so you can apply 300 times the force you could apply in one second, and a tiny deviation in trajectory can amplify a lot in five minutes.
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    It takes literally 30 seconds for it to be dragged out of orbit and slammed on a planet visibly when performed by one "sith". The other time I am aware of this being used it was a group of "Jedi" under Luke's teachings defending themselves in a sort of temporary linking of all of them grabbing down about five Star Destroyers, which wound up killing the one acting as the focus.
     
    Stewart9 said:
    I don't disagree but then how much trouble could people who pick up only the bare basics from watching the videos really be. The story and the premise have been good but that is a bit of a question in my mind.
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    The average person, probably not much. But this isn't about the average person, in terms of causing trouble they've got the law of large numbers on their side.

    Here's an idea of how they might represent a lot more trouble than you'd expect.

    Jimbo's an electrician and amateur Force user. He eventually sees the (upcoming I believe) video on Force lightning and he absolutely has to learn the technique. He's objectively bad at it. Unlike the Sith we see using the technique he can manage it for about a second tops and that's 30 seconds of getting himself in the right headspace and hours of working through the emotional backlash afterwards.

    But Jimbo's an electrician, he doesn't understand the Force, but he knows electricity. He finally manages Force Lightning and he immediately concludes that it's style over substance. It takes months, years even, but he studies the technique and alters it. No more constant stream of debilitating lightning, just a moment of building charge and then a single bolt that hits like a speeder.

    He's not an effective combatant, he barely knows any other Force techniques, still has all sorts of issues that prevent him using it at will. He's physically fit but a terrible shot with a blaster. But for one moment, that random civilian in a crowd can wield thunder.

    Which wouldn't be that bad. One man on one planet isn't a big deal at all. Except once Jimbo started getting success he posted a video of his experiments with the explanation of his technique and relevant math for modelling the Force Lightning.
     
    DestinyPlayer said:
    Except that's not how Force Lightning works. Ir I remember it correctly, It's an agony ray that looks like lightning, not actual electricity.
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    Yeah, Force Lightning is literally the most basic Dark Side technique, sending out a ray of agony and destruction crafted from your rage and fear. If you want real Lightning from the force, you take Telekinesis into Force Alter and Alter Environment, letting you set up the conditions for lightning to use as an attack. Master Plo Koon of the High Council augmented this already powerful technique with his mastery of physics.
     
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