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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
So, uhhh......What brought this one on? Cause for the longest time, I thought of Ling Qi as the kind who doesn't understand why people grow content with their position. So for her to start questioning "what's wrong with being comfortable and being content with where you are?" kinda confuses me a bit considering how she reacted to some cultivators who are content with their level.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Seems more to be about "Being able to enjoy what you do have instead of using it as collateral to get bigger still"
- Location
- At the end of the world
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
- Location
- United States
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
- Location
- scrabbling
Ling Qi's insights might be things that have pushed her towards enjoyment of what she has, rather than grasping for who-knows-what. But I do agree that the transition from 'greedy girl' to now isn't very clear if so
but there are nonpolitical reasons of practicality, of obsoletion, of damage for books to be destroyed. text is constantly destroyed and renewed. when we discard alchemical texts from mainstream inclusion in science it's not because we're politically conspiring against the alchemists. it's just fact, simple physics, that you can't transmute gold from lead without some very expensive electron-rejiggering far beyond the capabilities of guys messing with sulfur salts. the organism of culture must always reconstitute itself anew. the Empire's communications systems are an example of this—people build talismans specific to their own methods and lenses and the Ministry of Communication somehow cobbles those people's incompatible and irreplaceable systems together into a functional post, even as old contributors die and the new blood isn't quite able to fulfill the exact same needs in the same way.
it's a simple fact that the laws of physics in FoD-world change every once in a while. the stars used to kill you if you stood outside at night until someone ascended to create a magical ozone layer. and that's true not just for the laws of physics but also the laws of meaning and symbol. the Bloody Moon now is different from the old one. it's different for reasons that could be seen as political, but the fact of that origin doesn't change the fact of that difference. texts need to be updated to fit reality as it is now, not as it was. the old texts are simply wrong. they might have value, of a sort, but they don't provide knowledge anymore. you can read the alchemical texts, and get a lot out of them. they're very interesting and have a spiritual component in addition to their scientific basis. but what you get out of them isn't going to reflect the world, it's going to reflect you the reader.
just a fun side note, borges wrote about this (sort of, his library was a library that included all possible text). such a library includes its own catalog, a catalog of all possible catalogs, the mathematical proof that the catalogs of the library and of catalogs are incomplete, the proof reasserting the catalog's completion...a cultivator library could get weird
if you buy into that then you have to admit that the inclusion of that same information was already political, which removes the possibility for you to accuse book-destruction of sin
but there are nonpolitical reasons of practicality, of obsoletion, of damage for books to be destroyed. text is constantly destroyed and renewed. when we discard alchemical texts from mainstream inclusion in science it's not because we're politically conspiring against the alchemists. it's just fact, simple physics, that you can't transmute gold from lead without some very expensive electron-rejiggering far beyond the capabilities of guys messing with sulfur salts. the organism of culture must always reconstitute itself anew. the Empire's communications systems are an example of this—people build talismans specific to their own methods and lenses and the Ministry of Communication somehow cobbles those people's incompatible and irreplaceable systems together into a functional post, even as old contributors die and the new blood isn't quite able to fulfill the exact same needs in the same way.
it's a simple fact that the laws of physics in FoD-world change every once in a while. the stars used to kill you if you stood outside at night until someone ascended to create a magical ozone layer. and that's true not just for the laws of physics but also the laws of meaning and symbol. the Bloody Moon now is different from the old one. it's different for reasons that could be seen as political, but the fact of that origin doesn't change the fact of that difference. texts need to be updated to fit reality as it is now, not as it was. the old texts are simply wrong. they might have value, of a sort, but they don't provide knowledge anymore. you can read the alchemical texts, and get a lot out of them. they're very interesting and have a spiritual component in addition to their scientific basis. but what you get out of them isn't going to reflect the world, it's going to reflect you the reader.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
I've liked the looks we've gotten at the history of the province so far, and I hope this leads to more of it. Especially the really old stuff- the sacking of the city was important to see, but the forest King was the coolest for feeling old and deep. Plus, going deep into local lore let's us feed Cai threads, so to speak. If she's confident that people just need enough different roles and space in those roles to be happy woven into a giant perfect tapestry, then let's make sure that the roots of what was and still lingers gets woven in too. It makes her job harder, but if she can do it, I think it makes it very much more worth supporting.
I've liked the looks we've gotten at the history of the province so far, and I hope this leads to more of it. Especially the really old stuff- the sacking of the city was important to see, but the forest King was the coolest for feeling old and deep. Plus, going deep into local lore let's us feed Cai threads, so to speak. If she's confident that people just need enough different roles and space in those roles to be happy woven into a giant perfect tapestry, then let's make sure that the roots of what was and still lingers gets woven in too. It makes her job harder, but if she can do it, I think it makes it very much more worth supporting.
Unifying Ling Qi's character arc of her choice of patron Moons with her Home Domain, I see. The common core of what the Moons mean to Ling Qi is safety; if the Moon governs Mystery, then the phase Ling Qi is building governs the mystery of safety: what drives someone to want it, what being safe looks like, how to attain it.
...Because, due to Ling Qi's choices, particularly in her emphasis — or non-rejection — on friendship and unity with spirits, she'll inexorably come into conflict with the Imperial throne and their anti-spirit/human-supremacy stance.
And with Renxiang, if her ideal social tapestry doesn't permit for dissent or divergent views. (Well, that's what Ling Qi is for: to influence Renxiang's Legalism into something that allows, permits, and/or encourages a little chaos.)
The options don't seem to have much relation to my hypothesis of what Ling Qi's Moon phase is going to be. But the setting vote seemed to have insured all the scenarios provided involved Grinning's domain, so.
Rather, in keeping with the choice to recover that which was forgotten, this vote has Ling Qi focus on a specific aspect of the past to understand the present.
[] Historical Plays, works of wit and satire, (Speech, Government,)
This focuses on a human-centric view of the past: of specific trends of thought, of policies and people. Probably covers the shames of the rulers of Tonghou, the Emerald Sea in general, and the Imperial dynasties. Perhaps Ling Qi will understand how the past generations failed and gave rise to the current problems.
[] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
This focuses on the Emerald Sea's previous rulers — the Weilu, and the Xi? — and the spirit-human harmony of that lifestyle. (We can be sure it wasn't as human-friendly as Imperial culture, though.)
Perhaps Ling Qi will understand how it worked and the remnants of it in contemporary culture.
[] Paintings, watercolors and tapestries depicting glories long gone (Art, War)
This focuses on what the previous generation exalted, what they wanted to memorialize. Definitely pics that emphasis the wrong virtues. The triumphs within civil wars will absolutely hit Qi's in-group in-fighting buttons. Perhaps Ling Qi will understand where the previous generations succeeded, and produced the problems of today.
(Possibly Tonghou is too north, but I'd like to see what would be Ling Qi's reaction to the Imperial and/or Weilu peoples conquering people that looked like her. Her complexion is common to the southern part of the province, and the hill tribes there were officially assimilated ages ago.)
It's a subtle piece of characterization. To Ling Qi there's a marked difference between those who do have the talent and resources to move up in the world... and those who don't. She isn't obnoxious about her own strength and talent because she still sees herself as a) not strong enough and b) outrageously lucky. Fundamentally, she seeks the security and contentment that would come from being strong - and will never find it until she is much farther along her path than she is now.
But the Xianxia world is not one which permits the delusion of fairness, that goodness and effort merits recompense. Her mother took what, three to four months and dozens if not hundreds of times the amount of resources to break through what took her less than a week. Xiulan, one of her best friends, nearly killed herself and did heavily disfigure herself in her attempts to keep up.
Finally, recall her advanced insight: a family cannot be made without thinking about the perspectives and wants of its members.
Ling Qi is putting herself in other people's shoes and coming to the conclusion that not all of them would want to or could be her. She's growing up, basically.
Weirdly, her way seems to be making her more human, not less.
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- Location
- United States of America
It does not follow that if the banning of certain books and information is political, then the inclusion of those books previously is political. Those two concepts, banning of information and inclusion of information, are completely different and to draw a connection between them seems strange. There would be a connection if there was information that indicated that the previous dynasties required the inclusion of those texts in the libraries (as that would draw a connection between the political actions of the dynasty) but no such information seems to exist.
For example, you can say that the burning of these texts in order to get the new different information is political and that the inclusion of this new information is political, but that doesn't mean that the old information was added to the libraries due to politics. It could very well have been added for record keeping purposes, or a plethora of other apolitical reasons. Just as there are apolitical reasons for a library to destroy books, there would be apolitical reasons for a library to include books. However, there is clear evidence that the information is being destroyed because of politics, and there is no evidence regarding why the information was placed in the libraries in the first place.
Furthermore, the analogy to alchemy is not accurate to the information that we have about what is happening. Alchemy was removed from the curriculum of universities as the advancement of the sciences demonstrated it was complete hogwash. But being removed from teaching material is a far cry from being destroyed and suppressed. I can go online and get a ton of alchemical texts right now from the internet. That indicates it wasn't suppressed or destroyed, it just simply wasn't taught anymore. What's happening here is completely different. Information is actively being destroyed, all across the empire. In fact, what seems to be a more appropriate analogy was the Catholic bans of various texts across Europe in the 16th century for various different reasons.
The point regarding the physics of FoD is well made but does not seem relevant in regards to the destruction of the information. The textbooks and explanations of the world will constantly need to be changed due to the ascensions, but that is not a reason to destroy the old information. It is a reason not to teach it, but not teaching it is not a reason to destroy it. Simply because some information is wrong does not mean that the information needs to be destroyed.
To sum this up, there are apolitical reasons to remove texts from a library (as mentioned previously when there is not enough shelf space for the new texts and information coming in) but those reasons don't apply to this situation. This is because the library must remove certain texts before they can get new ones. And there is no evidence that the old information being removed has substantial connections to the information replacing it. Information in being removed for two reasons, the Imperial throne doesn't like it, and unless they remove it they won't be up to date with certain texts. It would, in my opinion, be generous to assign an even split of the two reasons for the removing of information from libraries. It seems more likely that the information being removed doesn't need to be destroyed in order to update it, and the primary reasons it is being destroyed is because the throne doesn't like the information.
I'm also slightly concerned that people are defending the political burning of books. It seems... strange that individuals would take the stance that the government suppressing information, not because it's harmful but because the government doesn't like it, is a neutral and acceptable thing. I mean, FoD is clearly not a modern government and this type of behavior seems to be the norm for the Imperial throne, but that doesn't mean we need to like it or even be neutral about it.
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
I like the idea of us delving into and learning the habits, manners, and methods of those who have since passed and learning what we can to apply towards our future. As some have mentioned the Weilu had a great and incredibly tight, most would say a strangling, relationship with Spirits and Beasts. Learning about where they succeeded and failed is a fantastic way to both honor and build on their legacy without getting too far into the mire they dragged themselves into.
I like the idea of us delving into and learning the habits, manners, and methods of those who have since passed and learning what we can to apply towards our future. As some have mentioned the Weilu had a great and incredibly tight, most would say a strangling, relationship with Spirits and Beasts. Learning about where they succeeded and failed is a fantastic way to both honor and build on their legacy without getting too far into the mire they dragged themselves into.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Including books into a library is indeed somewhat political. The books offered by a library show what that library wants people to read. Libraries will omit books that they don't want/need. After all no library can hold all the books in creation. However there is a key difference between omission and destruction. Omission means that the books is not readily available. That does not mean that the book is gone though. Whatever books are currently being omitted from libraries can be found and put into private collections or different libraries. Books are not magical fairies that disappear when you are not looking at them. If a book is omitted and removed from a library it has to go somewhere so the knowledge inside the book is not destroyed. Book burning though, it completely destroys the information.
I would also like to point out that people don't ban or destroy incorrect books. If you think that books are destroyed because of incorrect information I would encourage you to look at the American Library Association banned and challenged book list. It lists books that have been banned or challenged (challenged means someone tried to ban it or it is in the process of being banned) inside the United States of America. You may be surprised by what you find. The ALA says it well. "Censorship leaves us in the dark. Keep the light on."
Edit: If you do look at the list of banned and challenged books the list does a poor job of stating that these books are most often banned at an individual school level and not at the state or national level.
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- Location
- Earth
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
- Location
- Staring into the void
Inserted tally
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
Another hotly contested vote I see.
- Location
- Not Telling
[X] Historical Plays, works of wit and satire, (Speech, Government,)
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
We're still building the culmination of our Cultivation Art Journey, so I'm going to ignore the mechanical aspects of the choices. If we want to increase certain skills, we can always do so with training plans. So if it's just the descriptions of the works themselves, then I like this best with what Ling Qi's aligned with.
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
[X] Songs and poems of peoples and ways of life long gone (Spirit Ken, Beast handling)
I don't think I'd categorize this as "quite a bit". The vast majority of people visiting such a library would find such things worse then useless; their existence actively hinders the pursuit of knowledge. It might have some value to an archaeologist in the far future, perhaps - but by this same logic those archaeologists would also be interested in your household trash, and nobody considers it a tragedy when you throw that out to be disposed of.
As long as storage is cheap, that is a reasonable position to take. Keep everything, on the off-chance that you will need it. Might as well; not like it costs you anything meaningful.
In FoD, storage is NOT cheap. If you box up a of books in your basement for 500 years just in case someone wants to look at them, chances are spirit shenanigans will happen at some point. If you don't want that, you have to get an archivist to spend time making sure nothing goes wrong with the boxed-up books, and that either means you hire more archivists or pull some old ones away from what they would otherwise be doing. It is too expensive to keep a copy of everything forever; far more efficient to figure out what you need or are reasonably likely to need, and then appropriately dispose of the rest.