Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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We aren't catching up to them because they don't have good drugs, we are catching up to them because each levels take more time than the last. It's an illusion. In outer sect was where we constantly had a lot of insane drugs falling in our laps, too, and they kept up just fine.

We also have WoG that they are going to have access to much better resources in inner sect than outer sect, including rare drugs. We are not going to 'catch up to them' easily here, especially as their specific advantages will be hard to beat (E.G, every single one of their arts being as good as FVM/SCS, access to coherent and synergistic style, etc).

We are three month behind Meizhen in spiritual cultivation, while we were 5 6 month behind in the outer sect (we are still that far behind for physical cultivation I believe).

Now their access to coherent style and better arts are pretty significang boost to their power levels, but it's also irrellevant to the discussion at stake as a coherent suite can only help so much when by green 4 ine can make arts that fit far better than any others.
 
We are three month behind Meizhen in spiritual cultivation, while we were 5 6 month behind in the outer sect (we are still that far behind for physical cultivation I believe).

Now their access to coherent style and better arts are pretty significang boost to their power levels, but it's also irrellevant to the discussion at stake as a coherent suite can only help so much when by green 4 ine can make arts that fit far better than any others.
Actually that's where it'll help them even more. We have to make arts that fit us better. Meizhen's got arts available to her that already fit her very well because of her status as part snake spirit (which comes with both natural arts and cultivation bonuses), and CRX had her basic build planned by a control freak White who probably made sure she would fit whatever arts Shenhua wanted her to have.

That means a lot less work on art modification for both of them, and therefore more time to cultivate things.
 
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I think I remember hearing somewhere that Talent is only structured as integers for us because we're the only person whose growth is modeled in such high detail. CRX might have Talent 5.5 and yrsillar doesn't ask how that interacts with how the dice roll because he can just peg CRX's natural growth rate as somewhere between 5 Talent and 6 Talent and then start factoring in drugs and stuff.
 
I think I remember hearing somewhere that Talent is only structured as integers for us because we're the only person whose growth is modeled in such high detail. CRX might have Talent 5.5 and yrsillar doesn't ask how that interacts with how the dice roll because he can just peg CRX's natural growth rate as somewhere between 5 Talent and 6 Talent and then start factoring in drugs and stuff.

Yeah it's how I've always thought of it at least.
 
There's literally no chance in hell that CRX isn't talent 5 or 6 at the absolute minimum. We're also not catching up as much as we're pretending that we are because whereas we are spending our resources finishing off arts, trying to fill in holes with mediocre arts, or just straight cultivating phys/spirit, the ducals are already moving onto their next tier of ducal arts. That is the big resource where we are behind and have no feasible way to catch up. Creating our own arts at Green 4 is not going to be even remotely close to the quality of arts that are being handed down from Violet/Indigo/Whites to the ducals. Our base cultivation was always going to be the thing that caught up the fastest because it's the easiest thing to increase. Our art suite, on the other hand, is so far behind, especially now when it's getting much more expensive to cultivate arts, that there's a reasonable argument to be made that we are even further behind now than we were at the end of Forge of Destiny.
 
We are three month behind Meizhen in spiritual cultivation, while we were 5 6 month behind in the outer sect (we are still that far behind for physical cultivation I believe).

Now their access to coherent style and better arts are pretty significang boost to their power levels, but it's also irrellevant to the discussion at stake as a coherent suite can only help so much when by green 4 ine can make arts that fit far better than any others.
The thing is, it's easy to assume that Meizhen didn't train much spiritual/physical after getting to appraisal in the outer sect, as she was getting ready to fight Liling for the tournament (like we decided to focus on the tournament rather than base too).

As such, it would mean that she got from appraisal to foundation in 2~ turns once she got in inner sect, which is definitely more than just 'keeping up'. Yeah, we are catching up in base cultivation, but the 'catching up' likely happened through her choices to get more effective strength in the outer sect, not through better drugs in the inner sect.
 
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when by green 4 ine can make arts that fit far better than any others.

Source? I seem to remember that green four is where a cultivator can tailor existing arts, not create them.

Actually that's where it'll help them even more. We have to make arts that fit us better. Meizhen's got arts available to her that already fit her very well because of her status as part snake spirit (which comes with both natural arts and cultivation bonuses), and CRX had her basic build planned by a control freak White who probably made sure she would fit whatever arts Shenhua wanted her to have.

Isn't cultivation personal for everyone? Even if Meizhen has the road mapped out for her, she's not a typical Bai thanks to our influence. It'll take effort and time to rework arts she's provided with to suit her better, especially at Cyan and higher.

Don't know about CRX though. White control freak is a white control freak, after all.
 
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Isn't cultivation personal for everyone? Even if Meizhen has the road mapped out for her, she's not a typical Bai thanks to our influence. It'll take effort and time to rework arts she's provided with to suit her better, especially at Cyan and higher.
I believe Bai has Archive of their own. All Meizhen need to do is request Arts that she think would suit her more. Bai has very long history, i believe they have Arts of all possible elements and keywords, if only so they would know how to counter them. Of course Bai expected to follow some theme (Dark, Water and Yin Wood Arts if i remember correctly) and their Archive would reflect it, but if some Bai wants to use something in addition to that - i believe that they wouldn't need to look anywhere else.
 
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Bai has very long history, i believe they have Arts of all possible elements and keywords, if only so they would know how to counter them.

That's explicitly incorrect though, when we showed Meizhen FVM all the way back in the first thread she said that her family doesn't collect such (music) arts so she can't really evaluate it.

What I meant though is that Bai arts won't be a plug and go fit for Meizhen, she actually has friends for ancestor's sake. Sure, their techniques will fit well enough, but arts are more than that. She might not want to use arts with which theme she disagrees as well, despite how well they would fit.
 
That's explicitly incorrect though, when we showed Meizhen FVM all the way back in the first thread she said that her family doesn't collect such (music) arts so she can't really evaluate it.

What I meant though is that Bai arts won't be a plug and go fit for Meizhen, she actually has friends for ancestor's sake. Sure, their techniques will fit well enough, but arts are more than that. She might not want to use arts with which theme she disagrees as well, despite how well they would fit.
Music arts are a bit of an exceptions, as the Bais are notoriously tone death (that's Yrsillar's explicit reason about why they don't have those).

For example, Meizhen learned that she was actually talented at earth arts when Elder Ying gave her an earth art... and then promptly switched the one Ying gave her from one she got from her family. The Bais are a good example of "we had 10 000 years of top tier cultivators making extremely potent arts for our low level cultivators that could fit many different interpretations of the Bai Way".

And, well, Meizhen is definitely following the Bai Way.
 
That's explicitly incorrect though, when we showed Meizhen FVM all the way back in the first thread she said that her family doesn't collect such (music) arts so she can't really evaluate it.

What I meant though is that Bai arts won't be a plug and go fit for Meizhen, she actually has friends for ancestor's sake. Sure, their techniques will fit well enough, but arts are more than that. She might not want to use arts with which theme she disagrees as well, despite how well they would fit.
Ok, they aren't collecting music Arts. It doesn't mean that they didn't have many different Arts of different elements. Moreover Meizhen has her sister, who is known for her Metal Arts. I don't believe Metal is very 'Bai' element. In their history they had to have other cultivators with different elements and different themes to their Arts, and at least part of these Arts end up in Archive.
 
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Music arts are a bit of an exceptions, as the Bais are notoriously tone death (that's Yrsillar's explicit reason about why they don't have those).

For example, Meizhen learned that she was actually talented at earth arts when Elder Ying gave her an earth art... and then promptly switched the one Ying gave her from one she got from her family. The Bais are a good example of "we had 10 000 years of top tier cultivators making extremely potent arts for our low level cultivators that could fit many different interpretations of the Bai Way".

And, well, Meizhen is definitely following the Bai Way.
Yeah. Meizhen isn't gonna be the first Bai to run Earth.

I mean, heck, Xiao Fen was running *Fire*.

The Bai have a very deep well of knowledge here, and a million variations on their themes.
 
Since when the fitness of an art is determined only by its elements? Whether the art fits or no comes from its flavour as well, no? I mean, Ling Qi can't be too picky about that so we settle for "Are you Wind/Dark/Moon/Music? - You're in." But I expect that because Meizhen has Bai archives to support her she'll be much more careful with her choices.
 
The simple pattern imitation of lower realms will not avail you as you advance toward the peak of the third realm and beyond

"However. It is unwise to attempt to reshape your meridians before the Threshold Stage of Green Soul. Until you reach this level, do not attempt direct manipulation of meridians. Until that time, satisfy yourself with simply making your arts more efficient."

The thing is, it's easy to assume that Meizhen didn't train much spiritual/physical after getting to appraisal in the outer sect, as she was getting ready to fight Liling for the tournament (like we decided to focus on the tournament rather than base too).

As such, it would mean that she got from appraisal to foundation in 2~ turns once she got in inner sect, which is definitely more than just 'keeping up'. Yeah, we are catching up in base cultivation, but the 'catching up' likely happened through her choices to get more effective strength in the outer sect, not through better drugs in the inner sect.

While that would be possible, the time spent by CRX to get to the third stage seems to imply the opposite. I don't believe CRX and meizhen cultivation speed vary so much but I might be wrong.

Source? I seem to remember that green four is where a cultivator can tailor existing arts, not create them.

The quotes for both art creation being needed to progress and it requiring green 4 are on top of this post.
 
The quotes for both art creation being needed to progress and it requiring green 4 are on top of this post.

I may be failing in parsing the quotes, but they seem to be about manipulating meridians and mastering arts, not creating new ones.

And the lecture hinted that third realm is where tinkering with existing arts begins.

"However, the patterns used in arts are just that, structures designed to create an effect. In the third realm, a cultivator has the potency of spirit to shape these flows more directly, and personalize them for greater efficiency.
 
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While that would be possible, the time spent by CRX to get to the third stage seems to imply the opposite. I don't believe CRX and meizhen cultivation speed vary so much but I might be wrong.
CRX has always lagged behind. Well, 'always'. She spent a lot of time in bureaucracy stuff. For example, Meizhen was Green Week 19, Bronze week 21. CRX was Green Week 23? and Bronze week 29. Basically, cultivation-wise there was almost as much difference between Meizhen and CRX as between CRX and Ling Qi.
 
Since when the fitness of an art is determined only by its elements? Whether the art fits or no comes from its flavour as well, no? I mean, Ling Qi can't be too picky about that so we settle for "Are you Wind/Dark/Moon/Music? - You're in." But I expect that because Meizhen has Bai archives to support her she'll be much more careful with her choices.
She had to. But even if Meizhen has some radical views for Bai, i think that Arts of Bai Way still suit her well, especially with that Fear theme to her Domain. I expect that later she will need to create her own Arts, but not in foreseeable future.
The quotes for both art creation being needed to progress and it requiring green 4 are on top of this post.
Its about modification of existing Arts, not of creating new ones.
Yeah. Meizhen isn't gonna be the first Bai to run Earth.

I mean, heck, Xiao Fen was running *Fire*.

The Bai have a very deep well of knowledge here, and a million variations on their themes.
It reminds me about Arts from Cai Archive and how long we waiting for them already.
 
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I may be failing in parsing the quotes, but they seem to be about manipulating meridians and mastering arts, not creating new ones.

And the lecture hinted that third realm is where tinkering with existing arts begins.

What do you think an art is if not manipulating meridians ?

Its about modification of existing Arts, not of creating new ones.

Art alteration is unlocked at green/bronze 3.

Nah manipulation is unlocked one stage earlier. That's art creation which is disponible from stage 4 onward (Threshold).
 
What do you think an art is if not manipulating meridians ?

Nah manipulation is unlocked one stage earlier. That's art creation which is disponible from stage 4 onward (Threshold).
Yes manipulation of Arts unlocked on Green 3, but it just allows us to change one of Keywords.
No. Arts is so much more then manipulation of meridians, which you are talking about and which is 'unwise until Treshold Green'.
Anyway, don't you think it would be too easy if we could create our own Arts this early?
"However. It is unwise to attempt to reshape your meridians before the Threshold Stage of Green Soul. Until you reach this level, do not attempt direct manipulation of meridians. Until that time, satisfy yourself with simply making your arts more efficient."
Nowhere in this Meizhen said that we would be able to create Arts. I believe it's about us being able to change Meridian Keywords though. And that is very cool in its own right.:cool:
 
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can someone point me which spoiler in the tutorial post has the cultivation power ranking? whats appraisal?
So for some reason it is not in the tutorial section. I went back into the first thread in order to find the full list. I am sure Yrs has mentioned it here but I can't find it in the threadmarks.
Here is the quote though.
She didn't recognize the names of the cultivation stages mentioned in the slip. She had just assumed that each stage of cultivation had the same three steps, but a bit of research showed that she was wrong.

Early, Appraisal, Foundation, Threshold, Framing, Formation, Fortification, Completion; The third realm contained eight discrete stages.
 
"At least we're all making good progress," Ling Qi said with somewhat forced cheer. Meizhen had reached the Foundation level of Green, even if her physical cultivation wasn't there yet. From the little she had seen of her liege the other girl would likely be finishing her own rise by the end of the month.

CRX has always lagged behind. Well, 'always'. She spent a lot of time in bureaucracy stuff. For example, Meizhen was Green Week 19, Bronze week 21. CRX was Green Week 23? and Bronze week 29. Basically, cultivation-wise there was almost as much difference between Meizhen and CRX as between CRX and Ling Qi.

CRX is only one month behind Meizhen which is similar to the green situation you are giving. That very far from the 5 6 month gap we had with them.

If both stopped cultivating at foundation, and started again once the tournament was over, they should be neck to neck (and not keep the month of disparity).

Yes manipulation of Arts unlocked on Green 3, but it just allows us to change one of Keywords.
No. Arts is so much more then manipulation of meridians, which you are talking about and which is 'unwise until Treshold Green'.
Anyway, don't you think it would be too easy if we could create our own Arts this early?
"However. It is unwise to attempt to reshape your meridians before the Threshold Stage of Green Soul. Until you reach this level, do not attempt direct manipulation of meridians. Until that time, satisfy yourself with simply making your arts more efficient."
Nowhere in this Meizhen said that we would be able to create Arts. I believe it's about us being able to change Meridian Keywords though. And that is very cool in its own right.:cool:

Arts are exercises and patterns of qi which bring about certain effects. Once created and refined, they may be copied by the less talented or powerful to shape the world according to the method of the arts creator. This is accomplished by expelling qi through the shaped channels carved by your efforts through the morass of corruption which separates the soul from the physical world. The exact shape of the channel and numerous other factors determine the effect., but also limit the number of patterns a cultivator is capable of making use of

Please read that update again, it will prevent things like mixing meizhen and a dying elder, who was the one to tell us that.
 
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