Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[ ] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.

i really want more info on the arts of the West but I think this is more valuable information for LQ. Additionally There mighe be some valuable lore in it too.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
I feel like, rather than attempting to explain the nominal differences between Sun Shao's and the original jungle inhabitants' cultivation, giving the Pines a more concrete explanation of the West's reach and objectives will work better to assuage their concerns.
I disagree with this. Knowing their goals can help, but those goals (the ones the soldiers we'll interrogate, anyway), will be lies, not the true goals of the Sun. However, learning the philosophy of their arts will teach us more, especially if it's the top brass of Shao's military that give soldiers their firstarts. Again, arts are ways to impart lessons and insights that shape your worldview. We'll directly see the lessons trickling down from the top.

SNR can teach a White Serpent that stillness and tranquillity mean they are above damage and might create a worldview of arrogance and superiority. Knowing the philosophy of SNR gives us an inside view into the thoughts of the Bai and how they think. What does an art from the Western teach its soldiers? What do they think? How do they think? How do they see the world? By knowing the philosophies behind their arts, we'll know this and can anticipate their goals.

As Abeo said, goals can and will change, especially if Shao manages to feed them more propaganda about the Jungle's new passivity. So knowing how they think and work means we can still anticipate it.

Plus, it's the option that explicitly helps with assuaging their concerns in relation to the Sun and the Jungle, while learning about their goals only helps with negotiations. But we already have lots of insider information and concessions because of our deal with Ji Rong, so I don't see how it'll help.

Plus, I hope we can get some lore on how the Red Garden philosophies and cultivation styles have shaped and mixed with the West's ky, which will be invaluable when we eventually start doing the same with the White Sky :V

[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.

Though I agree with this there is another way of looking at the situation. They are still 'conquering' the Western Territories. They have brought it under nominal compliance with the Qin Celestial Empire and are in the process of incorporating the strengths the Jungle brings.

They're 'Civilizing' The Goddess, progessively shifting her towards are more Imperial thought process through her interaction with the Ways of cultivators. It's been proven that Spirits evolve with and in response to the humans inhabiting their lands. She is still currently a 'Barbarian Spirit' but over time she will be shifted just as the Sun and Moon Spirits in the Emerald Sea have.

It's a 'as above, so below; as below, so above' situation. It's Sun Shao that is rushing a process which should take millenia and in so doing is becomeing more 'Barbarian', well more than he would have been.

Edit: Also can someone explain the Thief of Names thing. I've read the Tribulation but could someone explain it to me?

Okay so, from what I've seen, Thief of Names will be Ling Qi's new perception art that she'll create after training with Shu Yue. Now, since Ling Qi first touched upon Shen and [COMMUNICATION] in the tribulation, it looks like it'll be an art to train her ability to look into people's Ways and thoughts, like what she did with Xia Ren, Jiao, and Liling.

Now, there's also the mantling she did of Huisheng, but I think that's a separate thing that'll become a Domain ability.
 
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I disagree with this. Knowing their goals can help, but those goals (the ones the soldiers we'll interrogate, anyway), will be lies, not the true goals of the Sun. However, learning the philosophy of their arts will teach us more, especially if it's the top brass of Shao's military that give soldiers their firstarts. Again, arts are ways to impart lessons and insights that shape your worldview. We'll directly see the lessons trickling down from the top.

I mean, the goals will be lies but very revealing ones that still let us predict most of their behavior. The 'cultivation secrets' will likewise be lies, and I'm not sure they'll be useful or revealing ones at all.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
I mean, the goals will be lies but very revealing ones that still let us predict most of their behavior. The 'cultivation secrets' will likewise be lies, and I'm not sure they'll be useful or revealing ones at all.

We're not learning cultivation secrets because people don't just share those. The text literally says that. We're learning the philosophies of their arts. And, as we've seen with LQ, art philosophies affect your worldview and thought process.

It'll be difficult to predict their behaviour knowing that the goals are lies. It'll be less difficult to infer their goals from their thought processes. Understanding your opponents is 90% of the battle, and knowing how they think helps more; wants are easy to change; worldviews and thought processes, less so...
 
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[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on May 17, 2023 at 2:01 PM, finished with 83 posts and 46 votes.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[x] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
Gu Xiulan, Jaromila Portraits
@yrsillar

gu xiulan

jaromila (I couldnt figure out how to make her look older)
from this scene
The heavy door opened, revealing the woman she had met in the crater. She did not look much different, save that her golden hair hung about her shoulders, and she wore a glittering gown of midnight blue, trimmed with white fur now. Her stern expression swept over them, and Ling Qi caught a hint of curiosity there.

These were done with a combination of Nightcafe AI art generation and Photoshop (to fix things the ai messed up)
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
I disagree with this. Knowing their goals can help, but those goals (the ones the soldiers we'll interrogate, anyway), will be lies, not the true goals of the Sun. However, learning the philosophy of their arts will teach us more, especially if it's the top brass of Shao's military that give soldiers their firstarts. Again, arts are ways to impart lessons and insights that shape your worldview. We'll directly see the lessons trickling down from the top.

SNR can teach a White Serpent that stillness and tranquillity mean they are above damage and might create a worldview of arrogance and superiority. Knowing the philosophy of SNR gives us an inside view into the thoughts of the Bai and how they think. What does an art from the Western teach its soldiers? What do they think? How do they think? How do they see the world? By knowing the philosophies behind their arts, we'll know this and can anticipate their goals.

As Abeo said, goals can and will change, especially if Shao manages to feed them more propaganda about the Jungle's new passivity. So knowing how they think and work means we can still anticipate it.

Plus, it's the option that explicitly helps with assuaging their concerns in relation to the Sun and the Jungle, while learning about their goals only helps with negotiations. But we already have lots of insider information and concessions because of our deal with Ji Rong, so I don't see how it'll help.

Plus, I hope we can get some lore on how the Red Garden philosophies and cultivation styles have shaped and mixed with the West's ky, which will be invaluable when we eventually start doing the same with the White Sky :V

[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.



Okay so, from what I've seen, Thief of Names will be Ling Qi's new perception art that she'll create after training with Shu Yue. Now, since Ling Qi first touched upon Shen and [COMMUNICATION] in the tribulation, it looks like it'll be an art to train her ability to look into people's Ways and thoughts, like what she did with Xia Ren, Jiao, and Liling.

Now, there's also the mantling she did of Huisheng, but I think that's a separate thing that'll become a Domain ability.

SNR is a good example of the limits of that thinking, though. "Stillness, and how the infinite depths show the inconsequential nature of fleeting things" is an art that most would fundamentally associate with humility, not arrogance. Sure, you can point to other aspects of White Serpent culture to explain why it'd push them toward a more imperious attitude, but SNR by itself is basically giving you net zero information. Look at other Arts, the focus on counterattacks and mighty defenses and the focus on proactive intimidation--why, clearly the Bai are pacifists, or at least a preferentially peaceful people! Wait, they're vengeful and will proactively go after enemies they want destroyed? They use poison, which is clearly a subtle weapon. They must wield their influence with a light touch! Actually no though, they do have spymasters but don't seem to think much of them, and they seem pretty upfront about what they're about.

The Bai Arts are thematic of being lake snakes. Their philosophy is about being lake snakes, specifically the descendants of Grandmother Snake, and that's why they're better than you. Even their culture is that of "a pit of snakes," because puns. Focus on the parts that are not about being a Water Moccasin and you'll get lead astray, and you could arrive at that answer much more quickly and accurately by ignoring their Arts completely.

Ultimately, working off of Arts is divination. It's something you can learn to do well (in a world with magic), and it's something that can be useful, but many times most of the meaning is only going to be apparent in hindsight.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
Oh right, I also voted for art examination since it seems like a more direct/useful compare and contrast for the art philosophy meditation Ling Qi has being doing with the vermin king BKSD project the last few updates. Which in turn seems like it would help boost the perspective gains coming from analyzing these soldiers' art philosophies.

The art-based approach also seems more likely to produce Ling Qi actually doing the art at some point in the scene, instead of just thinking about it and being really underwhelming as an art project, which has been the unfortunate truth of the previous.... I want to say two BKSD projects?

An "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" scenario is pretty easy to see happening with Ling Qi snooping about the combat arts on display, especially with a rough and tumble martial crowd.

With asking around about the jungle goddess and what they want to mulch her into? A lot more forced to get an actual demo, imo. The project's theming doesn't quite jive with the context, not in terms of actual demonstration, anyway. Would be a bummer for the art to not show its stuff off for the third time in a row.
 
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[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
Oh right, I also voted for art examination since it seems like a more direct/useful compare and contrast for the art philosophy meditation Ling Qi has being doing with the vermin king BKSD project the last few updates. Which in turn seems like it would help boost the perspective gains coming from analyzing these soldiers' art philosophies.

The art-based approach also seems more likely to produce Ling Qi actually doing the art at some point in the scene, instead of just thinking about it and being really underwhelming as an art project, which has been the unfortunate truth of the previous.... I want to say two BKSD projects?

An "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" scenario is pretty easy to see happening with Ling Qi snooping about the combat arts on display, especially with a rough and tumble martial crowd.

With asking around about the jungle goddess and what they want to mulch her into? A lot more forced to get an actual demo, imo. The project's theming doesn't quite jive with the context, not in terms of actual demonstration, anyway. Would be a bummer for the art to not show its stuff off for the third time in a row.

Hmm. Yeah, these two can definitely meld well. Learning about the song of nature, of tooth and claw, while discussing about the philosophy of the Jungle arts based on the Sunflower Goddess, the Life GS of bloody evolution can lead to very interesting things.

Plus, Ling Qi just asserted that conflict is inherent in life, but shouldn't be the purpose. Hearing about arts of soldiers of Sun "Sovereign of Conflict" Shao's army can help answer the question about what brings people to war too.

Primacy of Beasts: Learn the song of nature, the melody of tooth and claw. Where lies the line between beasts and men, which brings us to war? Mere greed and pride, or something more? Alters the primal War Calling into the Vermin God's Legion technique. +1 XP to Want and Power. Unlocks one Project(0/3)

[] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
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