Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think yrs thought he could sneak it in to ease the next vote
I'd say the quarry should be the fist thing we do, mostly because I'd like to mitigate the fact that we're bleeding ressources currently, and the 1 Material we're getting from the outpost itself isn't helping that much. Quarry, livestock, and in a lesser way granary compete for the last 4 worker slots we have, ad I think I'd prefer to continue upgrading the lake's efficiency over opening more slots producing Agriculture right now, so... yeah, I'd say quarry -> docks -> tiny quarry -> Granary
It's true that we have 2 sources of Agriculture (+7 each turn with Fishing, Farming and base*) but only the base source of materials. So it would be good to get the +3 materials from the Quarry earlier on to mitagate the resource bleeding.
*Edit: I just remembered that permanent manpower has an Agriculture upkeep. So were are ever need to produce more Agriculture than Materials
Even so, protecting our food reserves from Famine events seems too important to delay it for more than a turn. It's just my paranoid streak. And we still need the free permanent manpower. Note: Fishing Docks does not give manpower, but Boats do.
The increases in efficiency with the Docks is a mere 0.25 per manpower. So only 0.75, negligible, until we get the chained Boats project, which will likely improve the the efficiency further and increase the manpower slots. But it will still be like 2 per manpower with 5 slots, so 10 agriculture per month. Not-negigible, but not game-changing either.
So the important part is unlocking the Snowblossom Meditations Project, depending on its effects, of course. It also goes too well with Spirit Seeker as to not grab it soon.
I also think that we should do Livestock before advancing the Quarry. It will depend on the kind of cattle we choose, but the Livestock will also generate Materials (or a mix of Materials and Agriculture). So it will also help with our Material bleeding.
And it's better to know its characteristics and update earlier so we can include it in our planning
So maybe
Quarry -> Granary -> Docks -> Meditations -> Livestock
With Quarry and Granary being interchangeable.
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- Location
- FR
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The issue is that we don't have the manpower to exploit the quarry, the fisheries, the livestock, and the field. Our manpower is capped at 10, presumably until we hit hamlet. If we add up all the manpower the projects we know about use, it would be 12 from those, plus one from admin and another from granary (which means even doing granary before getting hamlet means we'll have to pull manpower from somewhere -probably the fields, since they're our least efficient Agriculture source-.
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My opinion is that we want to build something very boring and non-eventy next turn so we can focus on the summit
But we've got options there so that's fine.
Ling Qi: "Alright, we'll build a granery. A simple, plain, normal granery. What's the worst that could happen? Right, guys?"
Everyone that has ever interacted with Ling Qi: *sweats profusely*.
That's kinda inevitable. Fishery, Fields and Quarry can employ 9 Manpower, and the Manor itself will require 1, so that already fills our cap. So even advancing into Tiny Quarry will add Manpower Slots we can't occupy.
But if we do this Quarry -> Granary -> Docks -> Meditations -> Livestock; then we'll occupy the 10 manpower with Fishery, Fields, Quarry and Granary. But we won't need more until the Manor and Livestock finish at the same time (Docks do not increase Manpower Slots and Meditations shouldn't either).
Then we'll need 4 more Manpower to have everything at full capacity. But then we'll already be at Hamlet and every will change so much we'll have to change all of our plans.
For starters, the Manpower cap will increase, so we can use our Wealth to rehire the temporal manpower we have substituted with permanent ones. So we wouldn't have manpower idle nor unmanned slots at any point after building the Quarry and Granary.
As a last resort, it wouldn't be particularly bad to leave things at 2/3 Manpower for a month or two until we get more.
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Remember were limited to manpower of 10 before we get hamlet, both adminstration center and grannary will eat up 1 while pasture and quarry will eat up 3.
We currently are on 6/10 of Manpowered used, so unless we want to take some off of a resource then, we'll need to think of plans.
We probally should ignore the pastures till after the admin center built, focusing mainly on that and doing quarry -> granarry -> docks -> fishing boats -> tiny quarry.
Reason to do tiny quarry last is with production boost we can then pull someone off of the quarry and stuff them in admin center.
We currently are on 6/10 of Manpowered used, so unless we want to take some off of a resource then, we'll need to think of plans.
We probally should ignore the pastures till after the admin center built, focusing mainly on that and doing quarry -> granarry -> docks -> fishing boats -> tiny quarry.
Reason to do tiny quarry last is with production boost we can then pull someone off of the quarry and stuff them in admin center.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Veins of the Earth-Glittering Pools: The veins run far, under every field and every home, in road and deep dell. Steadyness comes with prayer, a homely heat to warm and nurture raising spirits, soothing spirits.
Our options for bad weather:
-Hanyi
-Ling Qi
-Cloud Doggo
-Thunder god's tengu son
Our options for disease:
-Renxiang with bleaching lasers
-Zhengui with fire and ash
That is why its so lopsided.
We should be able to deal with minor cold snaps far better than minor pestilence
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
[X] Veins of the Earth-Glittering Pools: The veins run far, under every field and every home, in road and deep dell. Steadyness comes with prayer, a homely heat to warm and nurture raising spirits, soothing spirits.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
That's the exact discrepancy I'm getting at and querying.
Zhen = Heat the Earth = Improve agriculture + Warmer land
Gui = Power the Water = Non-lake water source + Anti-Disease.
Earth-Boiling Deeps - Heat means it's the Zhen option, and agriculture verifies that, but it has the disease prevention?
Earth-Glittering Pools - Pools = water, it's the Gui option, except it has the bonus to agriculture of Zhen's and it has the cold protection?
That's why I'm asking what I'm missing, because the options seem to have mismatched bonuses for the names, and they BOTH have the agriculture bonus that only one should have.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The agriculture bonus already exists. I'm not sure why the text is emphasizing it either tbh.
They both have the agricultural bonus because that was the guaranteed bonus we'd get for doing this project. Both still increase Zhengui's control over the lands and spread his power, the boiling depths just keep it concentrated underground where it can be used as purifying drinking water while the glittering pools spreads it across the surface preventing cold snaps.
Mmm. I hadn't agreed with that - I think the Administration Center is just going to unlock the advancement, not trigger it immediately, which will probably require we actually build to the full 10 permanent residents before it happens. Which means the admin center only needs to be rushed if we want the palisades up ASAP.
Also, while getting a trickle of materials from the quarry and getting all our hired workers employed doing something asap would be nice, we're actually on more of a crunch for food - which should, perhaps, not be surprising.
So, my preference would be to stall the Admin Center a turn while putting up both the fishery and the granary - so we've got a better look at our basic food situation. As has been mentioned, we need to produce 10 food/turn to support that 10 permanent population of a hamlet, and we need a surplus over that for future projects, and I think we need to get on both of those as soon as possible rather than rushing the admin center. Especially since all our options currently give us one food per manpower, which means no one manning the granaries and administration, long-term.
Pastoralism should probably wait on Yu Nuan.
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Well, if we're doing the fief thing ... (edit: note I did not see @Candesce 's post when making this)
It's not clear whether the manor's 1 manpower slot will ever count toward the cap, since we don't know whether "Special: Required to unlock the Hamlet Settlement Stage." will actually take time (or has other prerequisites, e.g. do we need to wean ourselves off the hired P?). Regardless we're doing this first. Losing the D will hurt though, but at least post-summit we're likely to stick around more and we can build Palisade (D/W).
Fields and Fishery currently both provide the same +1A/P currently. Pastures are unclear - we've previously been told they're a good fit for the land, but we generally want to focus bonuses on one particular food source for now since we can't staff them all. Since VotE is still there instead of its successor (presuming it exists - though "first level" sounds promising), Fishing Docks is currently the only A/P bonus available. Note that "Snowblossom Meditations Project" is probably a cultivation project rather than a development project; all future development projects show in the bottom rather than in-line.
Once we do Quarry, we should immediately do Tiny Quarry upgrade for better M/P, but we probably won't fully staff it unless we do it before Pastures (unless Pastures have terrible A/P before further upgrades).
Granary takes a P slot but provides neither A/P nor M/P; it's the famine protection we care about. Do we have to staff it (and does it drain W) for that effect? Happiness and Admin aren't important in the short term.
Population Drive just gives us W at this point. We'll want to do it eventually but there are too many interesting things. Though if "no hired P" is a requirement for hamlet, ... 2 currently, 1 granary, 1 pastures, 1 from fishing boats which is a step away ... to hit 10 P natively, that would require paying for Population Drive 5 times at increasing prices! Thus I'm really hoping hamlet does not require it.
Assuming no further barriers for hamlet, we only get to pick 5 while the manor is being worked on. To avoid wasting P we should pick either Pastures or Quarry, along with an upgrade therefor (unless pastures turn out to suck). We should likely also pick 2 upgrades to a single food source (currently fishing has the best options, but that may change), leaving us only 1 free (almost certainly Granary).
I'm thinking: {Pastures, Granary, Fishing Docks (or other food upgrade), food upgrade 2, food upgrade 3}. Granary could go first for improved safety at the cost of wasting resources.
Alternatively, {Quarry, Tiny Quarry, ...} would at least not waste P, but I don't seriously consider it, since all available projects fit within about half of our M buffer and M has no known way to decay. Currently I'm thinking do this in early hamlet alongside Palisade.
It's not clear whether the manor's 1 manpower slot will ever count toward the cap, since we don't know whether "Special: Required to unlock the Hamlet Settlement Stage." will actually take time (or has other prerequisites, e.g. do we need to wean ourselves off the hired P?). Regardless we're doing this first. Losing the D will hurt though, but at least post-summit we're likely to stick around more and we can build Palisade (D/W).
Fields and Fishery currently both provide the same +1A/P currently. Pastures are unclear - we've previously been told they're a good fit for the land, but we generally want to focus bonuses on one particular food source for now since we can't staff them all. Since VotE is still there instead of its successor (presuming it exists - though "first level" sounds promising), Fishing Docks is currently the only A/P bonus available. Note that "Snowblossom Meditations Project" is probably a cultivation project rather than a development project; all future development projects show in the bottom rather than in-line.
Once we do Quarry, we should immediately do Tiny Quarry upgrade for better M/P, but we probably won't fully staff it unless we do it before Pastures (unless Pastures have terrible A/P before further upgrades).
Granary takes a P slot but provides neither A/P nor M/P; it's the famine protection we care about. Do we have to staff it (and does it drain W) for that effect? Happiness and Admin aren't important in the short term.
Population Drive just gives us W at this point. We'll want to do it eventually but there are too many interesting things. Though if "no hired P" is a requirement for hamlet, ... 2 currently, 1 granary, 1 pastures, 1 from fishing boats which is a step away ... to hit 10 P natively, that would require paying for Population Drive 5 times at increasing prices! Thus I'm really hoping hamlet does not require it.
Assuming no further barriers for hamlet, we only get to pick 5 while the manor is being worked on. To avoid wasting P we should pick either Pastures or Quarry, along with an upgrade therefor (unless pastures turn out to suck). We should likely also pick 2 upgrades to a single food source (currently fishing has the best options, but that may change), leaving us only 1 free (almost certainly Granary).
I'm thinking: {Pastures, Granary, Fishing Docks (or other food upgrade), food upgrade 2, food upgrade 3}. Granary could go first for improved safety at the cost of wasting resources.
Alternatively, {Quarry, Tiny Quarry, ...} would at least not waste P, but I don't seriously consider it, since all available projects fit within about half of our M buffer and M has no known way to decay. Currently I'm thinking do this in early hamlet alongside Palisade.
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I'm more concerned about having enough food to build those upgrades - we're not producing very quickly at the moment, and while projects' food costs are dropping for material costs, increasing permanent population is going to cut into food production.
I'd like to reiterate - until we get more upgrades for our various food production facilities, they can only pay for themselves in permanent manpower, not even covering the manning requirements of things like the granaries and admin center. Never mind building more stuff.
This is probably an argument to open up the pastures before the quarry, by the way, just to see how much food we're getting from them and if they can, say, boost our farming production.
Edit: Wait, hold on. Guess the quarry doesn't give permanent manpower. Bluh, why'd I think that.
Meanwhile, the Granary tells us that it's the end of its upgrade line before Hamlet stage - so my argument on building it ASAP goes away. Probably better to aim at Pastures, then.
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It is not mentioned at Subsistence level:
and the next grade only increases the improvement's slots (as in "Manpower Slots 0/3" becomes "0/4"):
@yrsillar Since these will affect the plans for upcoming votes in this Arc, I think we need some WOG answers here soon, particularly:
- Is Admin Center the only requirement for Hamlet?
- Is the Hamlet upgrade immediate when we finish the requirements, or will it take further development actions?
- Does hired manpower disappear when we reach Hamlet? (only relevant if "reach max permanent manpower" isn't an additional requirement)
- If we need/want to stop using hired manpower do we really need 5 Population Drives? (considering revealed development actions only, since only a fraction of them are stated to provide a Permanent Manpower bonus)
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THIS
as of now, no matter what, all our population can, at most, support itself. they produce nothing. this means that no matter what, we are bleeding resources, and if we put pops everywhere EXCEPT for agriculture, we'll bleed more. to be able to develop the settlement, we need to get to a position when we have pops producing for others. and do it as fast as possible.
this won't be achieved by opening more pop slots for agriculture. only by creating slots that produce more then 1 agriculture per pop. pastures MIGHT do it, but we don't actually know. the only way to do it right now, is fishing docks. yeah, 0.25 is not a lot, but its the beginning of a surplus, one we really need. with fishing boats following, this leaves us with 3 turns to be able to build projects while positive on agriculture, meaning we can put pops into slots that produce less then 1 agriculture with no fear. like quarry, possibly pastures. and this means we can finally pay for ourselves and reach growth instead of constant shortage
Although I agree with Gui, he's already winning in a landslide. So I'm going to give Zhen a head pat to hopefully make him feel better after losing the argument.
[X] Veins of the Earth-Glittering Pools: The veins run far, under every field and every home, in road and deep dell. Steadyness comes with prayer, a homely heat to warm and nurture raising spirits, soothing spirits.
[X] Veins of the Earth-Glittering Pools: The veins run far, under every field and every home, in road and deep dell. Steadyness comes with prayer, a homely heat to warm and nurture raising spirits, soothing spirits.
Our priority should be picking up a few tier 1 and maybe 2 structures, not filling out the tier zeroes.
And if that pushes the admin center back a turn, what of it? We'll still have the rest of the t0s to fill out.
- Location
- Finland
Becomming self sufficient is not, i think, the main priority.
We need to do it, and faster is better.
But considering that we are pretty well funded for now, it might be better to build things that allow for faster expansion, and then become self sufficient.
Haven't paid enough attention for the fief mechanics to know what we should to do so though.
We need to do it, and faster is better.
But considering that we are pretty well funded for now, it might be better to build things that allow for faster expansion, and then become self sufficient.
Haven't paid enough attention for the fief mechanics to know what we should to do so though.
We are not sufficiently funded in food. As such, improving food production is what will allow us the fastest expansion.