Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I do maintain that, while it would be narratively boring and also not really LQ's thing, it should be entirely possible to develop advanced insights through sufficient philosophical reflection.

Though of course it also helps to actually test your Way in the world. If your Way only works in theory it's probably in a lot of danger of being brittle in practice.

According to that in-world article we got tribulation is necessary for an advanced insight, though it the tribulation can come from within (and doesn't have to be the crazy stuff Qi puts herself through) it still needs to be a challenge or struggle where you put something precious on the line that you could lose (even if it is just your sanity :V ). That's why Green is the realm that separates the normal wealthy people from the crazy people, as we've seen with the Gu daughters for instance.

However it is only the beginning, starting at the Framing stage you will need to seek tribulation, and the insight into yourself which is found there. Merely meditating on lessons and performing exercises will not reveal the foundations of your self. No, you will need to seek challenges, things which drive you to the very edge of your endurance.

Now I am not telling you to hurl yourself into situations you are unlikely to survive, disciples. Not all tribulations come in the form of challenges of the body. Tribulation may come from any source, even within. But, the key to your advancement will be challenging yourself, risking something dear to yourself, whether that be your life, a precious thing, or your state and peace of mind.

From this will come an advanced insight, a true bedrock upon which everything else will be built. Thrice you will need to enter this peril and return bettered if you wish to reach the peak of the third realm.
 
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I can see Qi answering "how do I allow high realms to connect with mortals" from an Isolation rank up giving an insight.

Ooo. That'll be a cool way to get an advanced insight insight.
 
Logically Ling Qi should have a massive advantage in progressing her cultivation do to the number of tribulations she has had. Whether or not that gets represented in story is another question. No one seemed to have any trouble getting their first advanced insight for G4.
 
Logically Ling Qi should have a massive advantage in progressing her cultivation do to the number of tribulations she has had. Whether or not that gets represented in story is another question. No one seemed to have any trouble getting their first advanced insight for G4.

Advantage over whom? She does have an advantage over basically everyone her age. She's on the genius track, with all her peers, ducal heirs and driven geniuses, who are just as active as she is. Cai Renxiang and Bai Meizhen are out there facing tribs of their own. Heck, LQ may have been in some way involved in instigating a speculated Meizhen trib culminating in "we harm, and we are harmed in turn".
 
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Advantage over whom? She does have an advantage over basically everyone her age. She's on the genius track, with all her peers, ducal heirs and driven geniuses, who are just as active as she is. Cai Renxiang and Bai Meizhen are out there facing tribs of their own. Heck, LQ may have been in some way involved in instigating a speculated Meizhen trib culminating in "we harm, and we are harmed in turn".
Ling Qi's unofficial answer to that is "I am tribulated, and I tribulate in turn".
 
Ling Qi is a tribulation.
No wonder her friends progress so fast in their cultivation.
I could honestly see the "being friends with Ling Qi is a cultivation aid" jokes becoming true mechanically instead of just being a narrative quirk to keep characters at relevant power levels. Her ideals of community and desire to avoid being alone, plus her acceptance that she has to allow people to stand on their own seems like the sort of mix that might actually help people to catch up to/keep up with her at high bond levels.
 
Yrs said on the discord that the tribulation requirement is the biggest bottleneck why even most talented cultivators with good teachers and plenty of resources don't make it to Cyan. Thanks to Zhi you're guaranteed to gain something from a tribulation if you survive it, but that isn't necessarily an Advanced Insight.
And I think I know why. Or at least one big reason why:
Advanced Insights, unlike regular ones do not arise from arts. Instead when undergoing a tribulation or trial, a chance may come to gain an advanced insight. These insight's result from mixing the ideas of previous insights and the domain baseline, and creating from them a more cohesive whole. Advanced insights do not take domain slots. Insights mixed this way are not used up, or otherwise lost
The more normal Insights and domain levels you have, the more building material Advanced Insights have to construct themselves.
Which is why even if Ling Qi gets the opportunity to do a third Tribulation relatively soon, I'd vote in favour of waiting to do it until she's got a bunch more normal Insights.
 
Mechanically, the big thing she needs to do is Master the Personal Successor Art she's created, if we're talking about "speeding her advancement" or whatnot.
I'm not interested about speed right now, more with quality. The more Insights, the higher quality the advanced Insights.

Also, looks like Qi's got a Zheng-esque cultivation ethic. I hope once she's well-known enough there will be Zheng in the Ebon Rivers speaking admiringly about her and telling their bond-siblings they should be more like this southern madlass. :D
 
I'm not interested about speed right now, more with quality. The more Insights, the higher quality the advanced Insights.

Also, looks like Qi's got a Zheng-esque cultivation ethic. I hope once she's well-known enough there will be Zheng in the Ebon Rivers speaking admiringly about her and telling their bond-siblings they should be more like this southern madlass. :D

I wasn't talking about advanced insights, which we have plenty of time to build up to, I was talking about the "Master Personal Successor Style" requirement for the 50% XP bonus to the next stage. Which still isn't necessarily a rush, of course, but just saying.
 
I wasn't talking about advanced insights, which we have plenty of time to build up to, I was talking about the "Master Personal Successor Style" requirement for the 50% XP bonus to the next stage. Which still isn't necessarily a rush, of course, but just saying.
Oh don't worry, the math cabal over on discord won't let us build a plan without a FFS cultivation action until we're done mastering it
 
We still have the potential Insigths from SNR, LFWT, MoSS and BKSD almost for sure and maybe WHR and UGM, though those are less popular.
And then we have the Successors Arts like FFS and ToN. Not sure how those works. I haven't checked, but I feel like if all Successors Arts give Insights, we are going to run out of slots pretty soon. Maybe the original art's Insight evolves?

In any case, we are going to have plenty of Insigths to build further Advanced Insigths in any coming Tribulations, Uncle Skelly's or any others.

There is no need to purposely slow down Ling Qi's cultivation nor avoid fulfilling the Breakthrough requirements to not get the bonus Xp.
And "mastering" FFS will only take like 2 more projects after this turn's. 3 tops, most likely.
 
We still have the potential Insigths from SNR, LFWT, MoSS and BKSD almost for sure and maybe WHR and UGM, though those are less popular.
And then we have the Successors Arts like FFS and ToN. Not sure how those works. I haven't checked, but I feel like if all Successors Arts give Insights, we are going to run out of slots pretty soon. Maybe the original art's Insight evolves?

In any case, we are going to have plenty of Insigths to build further Advanced Insigths in any coming Tribulations, Uncle Skelly's or any others.

There is no need to purposely slow down Ling Qi's cultivation nor avoid fulfilling the Breakthrough requirements to not get the bonus Xp.
And "mastering" FFS will only take like 2 more projects after this turn's. 3 tops, most likely.

It will take at least three, because each of the two current FFS options unlock a new option, which means a minimum of 4 actions to finish Mastering it.
 
We still have the potential Insigths from SNR, LFWT, MoSS and BKSD almost for sure and maybe WHR and UGM, though those are less popular.
And then we have the Successors Arts like FFS and ToN. Not sure how those works. I haven't checked, but I feel like if all Successors Arts give Insights, we are going to run out of slots pretty soon. Maybe the original art's Insight evolves?

In any case, we are going to have plenty of Insigths to build further Advanced Insigths in any coming Tribulations, Uncle Skelly's or any others.

There is no need to purposely slow down Ling Qi's cultivation nor avoid fulfilling the Breakthrough requirements to not get the bonus Xp.
And "mastering" FFS will only take like 2 more projects after this turn's. 3 tops, most likely.
We get an additional slot every time we go up, so that'll give us a margin, but yes, mastering a modified art gave us an Insight too IIRC

It will take at least three, because each of the two current FFS options unlock a new option, which means a minimum of 4 actions to finish Mastering it.
We took one for this turn, so at least 3 this turn not included.
 
Speaking of cultivation actions, Ling Qi's had a lot of those since the last time she was in a fight (gods, all the way back when Yan Renshu tried to blow up that city). After the summit I hope there'll be plenty of opportunities for some proper xianxia facesmashing, so Qi can show off what she can do these days.
 
And then we have the Successors Arts like FFS and ToN. Not sure how those works. I haven't checked, but I feel like if all Successors Arts give Insights, we are going to run out of slots pretty soon. Maybe the original art's Insight evolves?
Iirc yrs has said on discord that generally they'd edit the insight they were originally based on, but for FFS since it's our first successor which is very important in way building and since we don't have any problems with our current FSS insight we're probably gonna get a new insight for FFS.
 
It will take at least three, because each of the two current FFS options unlock a new option, which means a minimum of 4 actions to finish Mastering it.
We took one for this turn, so at least 3 this turn not included.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think it was said on discord that "mastering" FFS doesn't mean completing all its possible Projects.
We just need to work on it until it doesn't feel as a mangled art any longer. Which I presume will take 2-3 Projects more, as we have already done 1 and are doing another this turn. So 4-5 Projects total until "mastery".

I think it was made like that so we wouldn't be "forced" to do 6+ FFS Projects in a row to get the Xp bonus. Instead we can still alternate FFS with other arts after getting it.
 
Yrs said on the discord that the tribulation requirement is the biggest bottleneck why even most talented cultivators with good teachers and plenty of resources don't make it to Cyan. Thanks to Zhi you're guaranteed to gain something from a tribulation if you survive it, but that isn't necessarily an Advanced Insight.
And I think I know why. Or at least one big reason why:

The more normal Insights and domain levels you have, the more building material Advanced Insights have to construct themselves.
Which is why even if Ling Qi gets the opportunity to do a third Tribulation relatively soon, I'd vote in favour of waiting to do it until she's got a bunch more normal Insights.

Luckily for us, we have 1 project left to complete MoSS, and two more for SNR and UGM :p
 
For my part, I insist on FFS for narrative reasons, not mechanical ones. First personal successor art is supposed to be a Big Deal, FFS relates to both a cherished mentor and spirit bond-age, and it relates to White Sky diplomacy with the art line essentially being our badge of office as an emissary.

Ling Qi needs to cultivate it because it makes sense for her character to cultivate it. Genuinely don't care about the impact on her cultivation speed. It could slow her down by 90% and it'd still be the right move. It should be getting cultivated harder frankly, but I suspect grabbing 2 FFS actions in one turn wouldn't actually achieve that. The broader action framework is just out of tune with focusing on a single art properly.
 
and like if we don't prioritise FFS then Thief of Names will beat it up and take its lunch money, leaving it begging in the streets for importance
 
True.

Also, completely unrelated, I like how the Zheng have their own hack for not dirtying their hands with matters so base as mercantilism. You get part of your crew/gang to do it for you and magnanimously step in to loom menacingly at any villains who try taking advantage of your good bud's totally independent business interests. Which is completely different than getting your innately inferior cousin to manage mercantilist issues and looming menacingly at any, uh, absolutely everything just to be on the safe side.

As you can see, Bai and Zheng practices couldn't be more different.
 
The Song of Eleven Princes: Year of Sixty-Six White Flowers
A Song Of Eleven Princes: The Year Of Sixty-Six White Flowers

The worst year of the war, by the accounts of the two extant story cycles, and indeed of every writer, was the 113th year of the war, the Year of Sixty Six White Flowers. It marked in one sense the height of the drama, holding within it the stories of a generation of war.

In peacetime before the war, the Empire was thought to be stacked heavily with White-level Cultivators because it had fifteen in total. But if you add together anyone who was at or reached that (second) highest step in that year, it is said that the number would add up to sixty-six.

Seventeen of them would not survive even the year, flaring briefly and brilliantly in times of desperation to try to save a cause, family, or way. They are given the most attention in the "Lament Of The Seventeen", a moving part of the Song cycle that highlights desperation, success, and failure. Those who entered White did so sometimes to successfully save causes at the cost of their death, valuing their Way not only more than themselves but even more than its culmination. Others tried and failed, becoming brief, brutal sparks that made the end of a cause--like the bandit lord of Two Peaks--a massacre that destroyed entire cities with the scope of the suffering needed to defeat them.

But even among those who survived the year, most would die before the war was over. At the time of the end of the civil war and the ascension to the throne of Cai Renxiang, there were only twenty-two White Cultivators left in the Empire, and two of them were outlaws on the run from the destruction of their Clans, and powerful foes indeed of the new government. The year was a tragedy from start to beginning, such that the Songs could not even if they were able to cover every one of the White Flowers, both those who were White at the start of the year and those who ascended upwards during the year.

Instead, they almost use the idea of their inability to fully capture everything as a narrative tool, trying to reveal all they can within the Songs and yet admitting at many times bafflement, wonder, or horror at the proceedings that left many millions dead just in that year alone. So it is best to similarly focus and ask questions of some of its key narratives and give a first overview now of what to expect of the 7th to 8th Realm narratives during this period of Songs.

There are roughly four or five of the advancements to White that get significant attention in the Song Of Eleven Princes during that fateful year. But to understand why it was a fateful year, one must understand the year before, when Bei Meizhen was at last driven from her iron grip upon the Bai and her half-exile, her precarious position that had led her to transfer some loyalist Bai to Cai lands, became permanent. At the same time, the subjects beneath the earth, the city-states whose integration was the ultimate fruit of the Cai rulership, grew restive. One city, the Traitor City whose name was sacrificed for the power to strike at the Cai, in particular, rose up. So as Bai Meizhen tried to deal with the hostility of the Bai, the entire fate of the Emerald Seas rested in the balance.

At the same time, the Jin were starting to lose ground to the Xuan and indeed to the Bai, though the collapse of Bai Meizhen's rule relieved the pressure as the great family fell into infighting. The Jin and their empire were bedeviled by the Jing, and by their own follies when a 7th Realm Cultivator known as one of the greatest crafters of his age sought to reverse it.

Meanwhile, in the lands of the Zheng, spirits were growing out of control and the death toll outside of combat was quickly surpassing the death toll in combat, even before starvation and disease were factored in. It was in that context that the Wandering Blade, the Tailless Fox, at last reached her final and definite purpose.

These are the three stories of advancement to White that the Song focuses on most during the year, in addition to the travails of the Jungle and the wandering and wondering poet-philosopher Sai Zhu, whose journeys among the Clouds, the Jungles, and the desert Wastes had honed them into a figure whose postwar importance and renown would in a strange way far eclipse their deeds during the war.

So, one by one, let us talk about these figures and how the Song and other works treat them.

First, let us look at the most controversial one. Jin He was the man whose Circle Conspiracy would define and guide the Jin Clan for the remaining thirty-five years of their existence as a Clan and as a powerful state. Often the word of the Viscount Kongs under the Cai are taken as being of merit in talking about the craftsmanship of those Jin who went towards that side of the art. The long tradition and focus on producing things that could be easily made again and again was at times mocked, but Jin He was someone who believed fully in the ability of this to be innovation. Already by the Year of Sixty-Six White Flowers, he was regarded by many as a dangerous iconoclast whose emphasis on standardization was almost machine-like in its perfectionism and desire to create goods that anyone with the requisite skill could make.

Indeed, it was pushing towards understanding what this meant, and even more what this could mean, that allowed him to advance in the 8th Realm. While the Sagas written by the Jin portrays him as a world-shaping genius, the Songs speak of him as a man whose mind is machine and gear, cold and cunning but undeniably brilliant. The contrast between the passion for the cause of the Jin Clan and the way the Songs sees him as ultimately an extension of his craft speaks to the deep contradictions within the work.

Indeed, as entire books have been written on the subject of Jin He's motivations and the truly difficult manner to which his ascension to a Great Spirit obscured his political perspectives and the debate on Jin Ai's leadership and the last decade of the Jin. Despite the antipathy towards him that the Songs show, it is also the origin, not the Sagas, of the lines, "Oh what a marvelous machine his mind is, that encapsulates and understands everything…" and the monologue that followed, often regarded as one of the best of its age.

Antipathy can at times create as powerful art as love.


The second to draw the attention of the Songs is of course the Untouchable Ling Biyu, the Dancing Death, whose grin is said sometimes to flash with sorrow, sometimes with rage, and sometimes with mirth. On a field frozen by the power of her sister she, she who had been at the edge of 8th Realm for several decades, but who was aware of what she was going to give up and remained in one sense at the verge of either pushing through or shattering her way… made a choice.

The Song makes it quite clear what the truest choice is. Just as Ling Qi struggled with the contradiction between her Way and what her Way sought, so too did Ling Biyu face the fact that to be untouchable, to dance through a shower of gore with a laugh and a joke, is to in one sense not be a person at all. When one dances through the raindrops, when one dodges danger and responsibility alike, when one must wipe oneself clean of thoughts to use your most potent Arts, you cannot it is said be a sister or a friend, a lover in any but the most technical sense. So therein lies the cruel irony. As Ling Qi fell, as her life was in danger, Ling Biyu was able to let go of it all, because of and in spite of her love for her sister.

It is said on that day that the Cai gained a truly powerful ally, and Ling Qi lost her sister in all the ways that mattered. This is the personal tragedy that makes the story one that so many return to, again and again. But there are personal triumphs in the stories of Cultivation even in that dark year, and that is how the Wandering Blade's story is ultimately portrayed when she passes through the final barrier.

The name of the Wandering Blade is said to be Su Ling, and her past is partially shrouded in mystery, but it seemed clear that she was or had been in a relationship with the Peerless Gan Gaungli, and is said to have been a friend of Ling Qi. Yet she also is said to have turned her back on that friendship, or at least rejected the idea of fighting for the Cai.

The Songs cite this Tailless Fox as having said, "The world may need me, but what is the world without its people?" She did not fight for any side at all, instead struggling throughout the war to keep rogue spirits in check, catch bandits, and save the innocent from the devastation that thoughtless Cultivators could do.

This put her on a strange collision course with the Cai, and it is one that the Songs almost glosses over, emphasizing instead the continued relationship between the Wandering Blade and the eventual Great Spirit of Just Warfare, Shield Of The Innocent, Whose Sacred Word Is Protection.

(For more on Gan Gaungli and the Wandering Blade, click here.

***​

One of the most fascinatingly odd decisions that the Song makes is in the introduction to the Year of Sixty-Six White Flowers, in which the book proposes seven different orders of reading for the materials that make up the Year, and five more alternate readings which involve not reading entire sections simply to change how one views the events. In other words, it creates what a destrucivist or post-destructivist would call the ambiguity of the modern age, of the fixity and artifice of storytelling and the assignment of chronological meaning, despite being from a work many, many centuries removed from the modern forms of literary expression.

Thus the work has resonated with scholars of such fields in part for its odd forward-timeliness, which at the time was regarded as a strange gimmick but is now one of the most significant subjects of debate about translations and how to present the work in its entirety…



A/N: So I get to continue hinting things, but I was also forced by my own canons for this apocrypha to actually explain Ling Biyu's fate and more about what's going on. Sixty-Six is perhaps too high, but it is meant to be an absurd number for a world gone largely mad.

And so I decided to present three of the transitions to White: a Culmination, a Tragedy, and a Triumph.

Also, an obvious reference to another story, the coincidence of the (very common) last name was just too funny.
 
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