Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Why the push to immediately spend any surplus we might have?

Yeah, we might have more free time now than we planned on earlier. Sure, we could probably fit training up Lark into those slots. But so what? "We can afford it" is an absolutely terrible reason to do something. We can afford all sorts of things (many of them mutually exclusive) - that doesn't make them good ideas!

Furthermore, I think that "we can afford it" encourages a mindset where any spare resources immediately need to be gobbled up. That is incredibly shortsighted! Any choice we may make today is limited to the choices we have available today, and limited by the knowledge we have today. But as we've repeatedly seen, art choices only open up over time, as does knowledge.

If nothing else, we can expect to see significant additional art choices based on visiting the 2nd level archive, and more based on the Cai Library arts picked out for us. Time surplus left available now could be put to excellent use once we have these options available - and if it comes down to it there is nothing stopping us from picking up one of the current choices if it proves superior to the new options! But by using "we can afford it" as a justification to pick things now, we make it so that we can't afford the choices in the future.
The sooner we start training it the sooner we can profit from the returns the Art's strength can offer us.
Honestly your objection is like saying that since we now have 9 free actions then we should push back physical cultivation by two months.

Yeah, basically the big thing is that the set up of challenges is so that being a Jack of all trade helps one defend, but for challenging up you need to be really damn good at your specialities. Now, you can't be just good at one thing (Or else you depend on challenging people who not only have the same speciality you do but have no breadth), but being really damn good at 4~ things is better than being really good at 10.

The big thing is that if you want to climb the rank quickly you also need to be able to defend challenges. Not because of rank defence (the penalty for losing is minimal) but for Contribution Point grinding :D
I'd argue that Jack of all trades does jack shit for defense, since in that case we are the one choosing the theme of the trial hence we will obviously want to chose the one thing we are best at.
 
I'd argue that Jack of all trades does jack shit for defense, since in that case we are the one choosing the theme of the trial hence we will obviously want to chose the one thing we are best at.
That only works if the thing we are best at is facepunching. Otherwise the options we are getting depends on what our opponent is good at. If we are very good at sneaking but the one challenging us isn't, we aren't getting a sneaking challenge option.
 
That only works if the thing we are best at is facepunching. Otherwise the options we are getting depends on what our opponent is good at. If we are very good at sneaking but the one challenging us isn't, we aren't getting a sneaking challenge option.
I don't see what you're arguing about, music has already been proved to be a qualified option.
If the challenger can't music than that's his problem, not ours.
 
Well this is disappointing.

Meizhen was one of the few characters I actually care about. Oh well.

E: Also like what is this side thread about "Oh we have to significantly change our style, or otherwise worry, about FVM/SCS becoming obsolete etc etc"? It both seems out of nowhere and uh, very silly.

I'd have preferred a Meizhen scene too, but since it was only a minor vote nothing important should be lost.
The worry about Arts becoming obsolete :3 well the math cabal needs something to keep themselves busy :3 Don't worry too much about it, just vote for what our Mathematic Overlords tell us to vote for^^
 
The sooner we start training it the sooner we can profit from the returns the Art's strength can offer us.
Honestly your objection is like saying that since we now have 9 free actions then we should push back physical cultivation by two months.

It doesn't even fill a niche we need filled, as thievery is less needed and less viable. I mean, we're supposed to aim more towards PR, right? Kinda self defeating if we get caught stealing, or become well known for thievery.

And honestly, Yrs has never given us an unassailable cheat ability. I doubt lark is some kind of OP win button like some seem to believe.
 
Delayed reacts owing to how busy yesterday was:
The sounds of the gibbering swarm seemed to fade as Ling Qi regarded her real foes. The lesser spirits were effectively just their weapons after all. As she met the knife wielders eerily human eyes, Ling Qi admitted to herself that it was a bit of a relief to once again face down simple enemies, things that didn't deserve mercy or consideration.
Easy to forget, but Ling Qi really is as quick to mark opponents as Not A Person, as she is to mark some spirits as persons.

Probably a good strategy though. Being too enlightened as a feudal lord and soldier on a deathworld isn't particularly in her best interests.

Then, her fingers twitched, and she played the first note of the Elegy again. All at once, the world seemed to come back to life. Her enemies eyes widened, and it let out an alarmed yip, raising its knife as if to ward her off. As the mists churned and thickened, encircling the knife wielding beast, it's own oily qi pulsed again, and Ling Qi blinked, her eyebrows rising as she felt the net of qi she had woven slide off of the beast and snap shut around one of the ape-like beasts instead.

The thing let out a piteous yowl as her qi entrapped it, throwing its head back and forth in a wild panic as her mist cut it off entirely from its fellows. Ling Qi had no time to consider her techniques failure though.
Hey we've seen this move before. Shunting effects to expendable mooks.
...actually I wonder if the earlier swarm was a summon.

It'd explain the lack of survival instinct.
In her distraction, the third beast had time to act as well, as she straightened up from her dodge, she saw it reach one of its twisted hands into a pouch and pull it back out clutching a fistful of viscous black ooze. Ling Qi prepared to dodge a throw, but instead the beast simply gave a light toss, letting the lump of goo land atop a pile of broken frozen flesh that had once been several beasts.

The ooze immediately began to hiss and bubble violently, spreading across and consuming flesh as it sunk into the shattered corpses. For a fraction of an instant, Ling Qi hesitated, unsure of whether she should stick to her original plan. She gave her flying sword a second mental tug, but found it still entrapped, somehow stopped from even dematerializing, She considered again her foes, and what she had seen so far. What was the surest path to victory?
"Fucking Tinkers"

The fuck was that goo?
The creature cried out in pain, stumbling away from her with blood oozing from frostbitten patches spreading across cold cracked flesh. The one supporting the beasts was dangerous, but it was a danger in decline, even as they howled and rushed to swarm her again, some of the weaker members were beginning to drop mewling into the sand, exhausted and lethargic from her first use of Starlight Elegy. The direct attacker was dangerous, she thought, as she dodged repeated blows from its spear and winced as a spray of fine purple mist erupted from the point of its spear, sizzling as it seeped through her renewed armor and burned against her skin, but it was a danger she could handle.

The third one though, had likely entrapped her domain weapon, and had done something unknown. She would rather eliminate the variable. She paid for her choice as she was nearly buried by the hoard again. Here and there she miscalculated by a fraction, and she felt the prick of teeth faintly through her armor.
When in doubt, geek the mage.
Still true even here!

So we had:
-Knife Supporter
-Spear Fighter
-Batman Tinker

That's a Green1 Skaven Adventuring party!
And she's soloing the lot of them holy shit
The beast cocked its head to the side, and its snaggle toothed maw stretched into an ugly expression that might have been called a smile. Ling Qi tensed in preparation...only to be left blinking as her opponent shot away like an oversized bullet, reducing the frozen corpse it had crouched onto into a mass of pink slush, and vanished down the tunnel it had come from.

She had only an instant to feel bewildered before the corpses beneath her feet rumbled ominously, and her instincts screamed at her to move. Ling Qi shot straight up, carried on the wings of her cloak as the carpet of flesh erupted in churning black slime. Living beasts screamed as arm thick tendrils of drooping sludge dragged them into the main mass, and the bubbles on its surface seemed to scream, as they popped, the shadows of faces forming beneath the surface and fading just as fast as the mass began to spread.

More alarmingly, Ling Qi felt her mist dissolving where the slime touched, the qi infusing the water vapor draining as if into a hungry void. Ling Qi grimaced as she once again played Zeqings song, and while the tendrils reaching for her froze and crumbled, she felt a leeching drain as the technique drew more than it should have from her reserves to do its work. Worse, it didn't really feel like she had done the muck much harm… and its aura was already third realm and still swelling with power… it's rapid growth was filling the cavern alarmingly fast as well. Even if Ling Qi could beat this thing, Li Suyin would quickly run out of room to avoid it if they remained here.
...and thats the timeout. Looks like they didn't particularly care that we killed their buddy though.

What the heck was that muck? It looks like a Darkness-Earth version of Liling's Sunflower Field. It drained qi from a qi draining mist!

It looks indiscriminate too if they fled it.
Darting out of the sky, Ling Qi snatched the half frozen bandoleer from the body of the foe she had killed, and held out her right hand, drawing the bodies of as many beasts as she could fit into her ring then shot away from the spreading mess at high speed.
Looting reflexes is best reflexes.
We got samples of the enemies from Red to Green, we got a bag with the equipment of their Tinker(slightly banged up).

We didn't get a sample of the ooze but thats just common sense
Suyin nodded quickly, glancing at the reaching tendrils in alarm, half of the nest she had opened was empty by now. "Yes, I… I can't carry anymore as it is anyway. I already had Yi set explosive charms around the entrance, just in case, so…"

Ling Qi grinned tightly and patted her on the shoulder, as she recalled her sword from chasing the fleeing beast down the tunnel. "Time to run then."

As they fled the cavern at Suyin's top speed, the roar of explosions and collapsing stone at their back, Ling Qi could not help but laugh. No, she really couldn't let fear control her, because this is what being alive felt like.
Maximum looting achieved. And I like the explosions plan.
Always be ready to blow this joint
As they reached the top of the antlions tunnel and Li Suyin stopped to gasp for breath, she saw a little bit of a grin in the other girls expression as well.

Perhaps, Ling Qi thought, she had been thinking about things wrongly. If she had followed her knee jerk instinct, and simply focused on keeping her friend out of danger, could Suyin smile like that? If she had treated her like a fragile vase that needed to be kept on a shelf, wasn't that insulting?

Perhaps she had been thinking of things the wrong way.
Life is more than survival. A home is more than shelter.
She nodded happily. "Yes! I've acquired so much more than I could have hoped for! And it was amazing, seeing you fight like that. I'm sure, once I break through that we'll be able to go even deeper!"
Second Raid plotted.

Yeah, Ling Qi decided, she had to think about what it meant, to protect your friends.
To protect their hearts, not just their body.

"Ling Qi, are you alright?" Li Suyin asked as she straightened up, her face still red from exertion. "You're staring."

Li Suyin bond increases to 4
Suyin: "Why do I suddenly feel like Ling Qi's soul is hugging me?"
 
It doesn't even fill a niche we need filled, as thievery is less needed and less viable. I mean, we're supposed to aim more towards PR, right? Kinda self defeating if we get caught stealing, or become well known for thievery.

And honestly, Yrs has never given us an unassailable cheat ability. I doubt lark is some kind of OP win button like some seem to believe.
Your argument is illogical: more stealth and thievery arts leads to less chance of getting caught, not more.
Besides flight is the main point of training Lark, the rest is just the cherry on top of the already delicious cake.
 
The fuck was that goo?

What the heck was that muck? It looks like a Darkness-Earth version of Liling's Sunflower Field. It drained qi from a qi draining mist!
The goo was the muck. Area denial weapon, kill the swarm and the ooze eats the the corpses growing in strength as it goes. Considering that the trap that held our domain weapon disappeared when the support tinker died, the ooze might have started to rampage when its controller died.

I think we just need genuine flying Art of better quality.
Problem with that: flying in green is pretty much not a thing outside of exceptions like ducals or the Cai robes. Lark was pretty much made just for fun with a gimmick no one in green actually uses.

We will only really be seeing regular flying arts in Cyan where those things actually becomes common.
 
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The sooner we start training it the sooner we can profit from the returns the Art's strength can offer us.
Honestly your objection is like saying that since we now have 9 free actions then we should push back physical cultivation by two months.
Physical Cultivation differs from cultivating something like Lark in three important ways.

First, Physical Cultivation takes a long time. Just upgrading to Appraisal takes 1200xp, which is more than it takes to cultivate the ENTIRETY of most of the new arts. Foundation takes twice as long, and requires Appraisal as a prerequisite to boot. And all of this with lower cultivation multipliers than typical combat arts. Altogether, this means that for Physical cultivation, we don't have the luxury of just moving our cultivation from month to month. If we push back cultivating Curious Diviner's Eye by two months, we can cultivate it then and call it a day. If we push back Physical Cultivation by two months, we have no way to catch up unless we wait for a month where we weren't planning to do Physical Cultivation, which isn't likely to be soon.

Second, Physical Cultivation gates other abilities. If we don't advance our physical cultivation, we could face issues advancing our domain, training higher levels of arts, learning to develop our own arts, etc. None of that is an issue when learning new arts. At worst, we don't have the chance to slot them into our domain yet, gating other advancements - but right now we have a lot more arts on the verge of completion than we do slots that must be filled to advance, so I don't think this issue applies.

Third, Physical Cultivation is something that we are already committed to doing. There is no chance of us getting some information us change our mind about wanting to improve our Physical Cultivation. We aren't going to pick up a different form of base Cultivation which might be more advanced or suitable for us than Physical Cultivation. In contrast, it is entirely possible that two months after picking up a new Art, we find something somewhere that we like better.
 
That only works if the thing we are best at is facepunching. Otherwise the options we are getting depends on what our opponent is good at.
Source on that last bit? I was under the impression that options you got for defense matched your strengths, not your opponents. There is no possibility that if Li Suyin challenged us we would be offered the chance to compete with her on pill-crafting.
 
I think we just need genuine flying Art of better quality.
I would be tempted to agree except i don't see such a thing ever falling into our lap. I'm pretty sure we'll never manage to get a library search with the flying tag, much less a happy result that focus on it exclusively.
I think we should go for the art that boosts flying, stealth and gives combat stealing instead of trying to go after a "perfect" flying art.

Physical Cultivation differs from cultivating something like Lark in three important ways.

First, Physical Cultivation takes a long time. Just upgrading to Appraisal takes 1200xp, which is more than it takes to cultivate the ENTIRETY of most of the new arts. Foundation takes twice as long, and requires Appraisal as a prerequisite to boot. And all of this with lower cultivation multipliers than typical combat arts. Altogether, this means that for Physical cultivation, we don't have the luxury of just moving our cultivation from month to month. If we push back cultivating Curious Diviner's Eye by two months, we can cultivate it then and call it a day. If we push back Physical Cultivation by two months, we have no way to catch up unless we wait for a month where we weren't planning to do Physical Cultivation, which isn't likely to be soon.

Second, Physical Cultivation gates other abilities. If we don't advance our physical cultivation, we could face issues advancing our domain, training higher levels of arts, learning to develop our own arts, etc. None of that is an issue when learning new arts. At worst, we don't have the chance to slot them into our domain yet, gating other advancements - but right now we have a lot more arts on the verge of completion than we do slots that must be filled to advance, so I don't think this issue applies.

Third, Physical Cultivation is something that we are already committed to doing. There is no chance of us getting some information us change our mind about wanting to improve our Physical Cultivation. We aren't going to pick up a different form of base Cultivation which might be more advanced or suitable for us than Physical Cultivation. In contrast, it is entirely possible that two months after picking up a new Art, we find something somewhere that we like better.
At this point you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.
None of this covers why, now that we have a few AP freed up by the Suyin's meridian cleaning upgrade, we should follow your idea of pushing back training Lark (or any other Art for that matter) instead of doing it as soon as possible.
 
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Your argument is illogical: more stealth and thievery arts leads to less chance of getting caught, not more.
Besides flight is the main point of training Lark, the rest is just the cherry on top of the already delicious cake.

It's illogical to say we dont main spec thief?

I mean, we dont. It's been brought up several times that LQ isnt gold medal material when it comes to being a thief.

And it's actively detrimental to be tied to it long term, so either we full spec thief and never get caught or we only level stealth enough for utility.


Edit: and in any case. If all you wanted is flying, wouldn't it make more sense to get a dedicated art rather than something some old guy made on a whim?
 
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So guys, I just caught up to the thread and I realized nobody brought this up.

We know who's at the archives.
Ji Rong.

Everyone forgot a named character was specifically stated to be in there literally fighting the legal code?
It's neat seeing Ling Qi assess her targets and which one has priority. Seeing her be confident about tanking the spear user, and mostly ignore the buffer since she's killing most the beasts anyway and focus on the one with all the pouches since she didn't know what it could do was a nice touch. I do wonder if the purple acid blob and the mist coming from the spear played any part in the inspiration for AE.
Ling Qi: "Well, after you had Sun Liling chasing after you with a spear of ultimate pain and blood, this guy didn't really feel worth much"
Amazing chapter, but when the black Sludge started acting up, I couldn't help but mourn the delicious loot it ate :cry:
Look at it another way: We already looted literally everything we could carry. Suyin's whole stack of storage items and her constructs are fully loaded down through the whole battle.

And then we set whatever the ooze didn't eat on fire.
So, it seems that for a good portion of the fight, we were actually dancing and dodging on top of the corpses of these spirit beast like things. Which just brings to mind the image of creating a hill of bodies that our opponents have to climb in order to reach us.

That didn't seem to happen here, but probably because we kept moving and killing. Effectually laying down a carpet of corpses in our wake. I don't know how many of the reds and yellows we killed, but it was enough to carpet the whole area.
Appropriate moment for this:
Out of the surface of her (Durga's) forehead, fierce with frown, issued suddenly Kali of terrible countenance, armed with a sword and noose. Bearing the strange khatvanga (skull-topped staff ), decorated with a garland of skulls, clad in a tiger's skin, very appalling owing to her emaciated flesh, with gaping mouth, fearful with her tongue lolling out, having deep reddish eyes, filling the regions of the sky with her roars, falling upon impetuously and slaughtering the great asuras in that army, she devoured those hordes of the foes of the devas.

Kali consumes Raktabija and his duplicates, and dances on the corpses of the slain.
Humans have cores. You just can't eat tasty dantians without delving into a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
From what we learned I think its less needing a forbidden path and more that its usually behavior which leads to others killing you super dead because they can detect the traces of it and they're going to do some preemptive self defense now.

If anything, considering that humans can't consume beast cores without additional preparation, it might well be easier to eat people cores.
The goo was the muck. Area denial weapon, kill the swarm and the ooze eats the the corpses growing in strength as it goes. Considering that the trap that held our domain weapon disappeared when the support tinker died, the ooze might have started to rampage when its controller died.
Not "what it did" but more "what the fuck was that?"
Edit: and in any case. If all you wanted is flying, wouldn't it make more sense to get a dedicated art rather than something some old guy made on a whim?
That doesn't make sense, Flight is super rare in Green, thus theres not going to be dedicated flight arts in Green.

And the whim is being overemphasized. Its made at good quality, the Elder who did it just didn't consider that most Green cultivators cannot fly(dance is a lesser factor, you could learn to dance if you wanted, but no matter how you try a Green won't fly), and cultivators who've learned how to fly are so far past a Green 1 art that theres no reason to ever learn it.

Speaking as someone who finds it cute and fun, but not really an important art to focus on, it'd be a lot more productive to promote another art to learn instead with the saved AP if you want to persuade people.
 
I would be tempted to agree except i don't see such a thing ever falling into our lap. I'm pretty sure we'll never manage to get a library search with the flying tag, much less a happy result that focus on it exclusively.
I think we should go for the art that boosts flying, stealth and gives combat stealing instead of trying to go after a "perfect" flying art.
I am not actually arguing against Lark Art, i just think that it's too weak and would become obsolete pretty fast.
 
That doesn't make sense, Flight is super rare in Green, thus theres not going to be dedicated flight arts in Green.

And the whim is being overemphasized. Its made at good quality, the Elder who did it just didn't consider that most Green cultivators cannot fly(dance is a lesser factor, you could learn to dance if you wanted, but no matter how you try a Green won't fly), and cultivators who've learned how to fly are so far past a Green 1 art that theres no reason to ever learn it.

Speaking as someone who finds it cute and fun, but not really an important art to focus on, it'd be a lot more productive to promote another art to learn instead with the saved AP if you want to persuade people.

He made it while watching a kid try to catch a fairy. I think whim is a pretty good descriptor. Also "super rare" in this case means "without specialized talismans". It's not the same, and in any case, many millenia old empire. It's incredibly improbable that it's the only flying art in the whole inner sect. Especially here, where they've been fighting flying barbarians for most of recorded history who have seemingly universal flight powers.

And tbh, I am shit at being persuasive. I kind of assumed I was arguing in vain from the beginning. Mostly, this is to kill time.
 
Edit: and in any case. If all you wanted is flying, wouldn't it make more sense to get a dedicated art rather than something some old guy made on a whim?
Something I'd like to note about Lark is that it kinda is a dedicated flight art, and the larceny aspect to it is comparatively pretty small.
Audacious Fairy's Lark

Potency: Green 1
Potency Growth: Green 2(4)
Max Level 5
Needed Meridians: Legx2, Arm(1). Leg(3), Arm(5)
Keywords: Athletics, Dance, Dexterity, Dodge, Revelry, Stealth, Wind, Wits, Yin
Experience: 80, 120, 160, 200, 300

An art developed on the observations of a man observing his young daughters frustrations in his attempts to capture low grade wind spirit in the family gardens. The art follows in the footsteps of ephemeral spirits, floating ever just out of reach, and mocks those who would try to grasp its user. Requiring flight for its mastery techniques, this art was never of great use to those it was intended for.
The keywords and description don't have a hint of larceny or anything like that in them, instead focusing on flight and keeping out of reach. It's only in one of the techs that we see any larceny:
Plucking Gust: D
Duration: Immediate
Just the playful sprite plucked the hairpin from the child's head, the user's light touch can free more potent things from an enemy's ownership. The user may make a melee attack, using dance or stealth as its skill against an unaware or unready target to remove an accessory talisman from their person.
It's my opinion that this being a unique effect caused us to focus too much on it relative to the rest of the art. The description, keywords, and first tech are strictly about flight and mobility, but that was overshadowed in discussion by the unique qualities of item-theft. A fair reaction, of course, item theft is an interesting topic to discuss, but I feel like it still skewed our perspectives on the art as a whole a little.

Perhaps we'll find a stronger flight art somewhere out there, maybe when we hit higher levels of Green, but right now I think it's entirely appropriate to consider this a dedicated flight art.
 
While I was initially enthusiastic about AFL, my enthusiasm has cooled significantly. The reason for my declining lack of enthusiasm is that our dodge skill has evolved into something entirely different than the type of dodging AFL is teaching.

Rather than learning a new way of dodging, I think that Ling Qi can do a lot more by exploring and mastering her new dodge skill, and pursuing arts that promote the dodge skill. Something like DSL and it's physical counterpart. Learning the skill "Sable Grace" is just the beginning, and there is a lot more work that Ling Qi can do to really perfect it. So rather than learning how to be pushed away by an attack, let's work on mastering the art of simply not being there when an attack comes.
 
I don't see what you're arguing about, music has already been proved to be a qualified option.
If the challenger can't music than that's his problem, not ours.
We get to pick, OUT OF a selection presented by an elder. If the challenger can't music and we, for example, could ONLY music, that WOULD be our problem because we would not be presented with music as an option.
 
We get to pick, OUT OF a selection presented by an elder. If the challenger can't music and we, for example, could ONLY music, that WOULD be our problem because we would not be presented with music as an option.

If the challenger challenges someone who only does music then it will be assumed that they know this and the elder will make an option where the challenged can use that skill. It might not be a direct music duel, if the challenger cant do music, but that still leaves options
 
We get to pick, OUT OF a selection presented by an elder. If the challenger can't music and we, for example, could ONLY music, that WOULD be our problem because we would not be presented with music as an option.

Pretty sure the rules aren't set up to give one side a completely unfair advantage. Worst case scenario, face punching with our doots is always an option.
 
Here is the rule governing the choosing of challenges.
6. Upon acceptance of a challenge, the disciple of superior rank will be given a choice of challenge types to pick from by the Official or Elder providing oversight to the challenge.
It is completely up to the discretion of the Elder or Offical which types of challenges they will be offering. Presumably they have guidelines, but we don't have access to those. However, unless the challenging party, or the challenged party I suppose, royally messed up their relations with the official or elder determining the challenges, we can expect that the choices will reflect a range of skills that we can both compete in.

And if there was such a messed up relationship, then I don't think that member will be in the inner sect for long, or another elder will take over in order to keep a modicum of impartiality between the parties involved in a challenge.
 
Pretty sure the rules aren't set up to give one side a completely unfair advantage. Worst case scenario, face punching with our doots is always an option.
Honestly I'm pretty sure the sect would be completely okay with "unfair advantage against people who for some reason are completely incapable of either fighting or production but managed to somehow make it into the inner sect anyway." It doesn't exist for the purpose of fairness, it exists for the purpose of border defense, and if someone was somehow COMPLETELY incapable of contributing to that border defense they have no real motive to help them advance or maintain their position.
 
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