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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
[X] Plan Finishing Touch and new Opportunities
[X] Plan Finishing Touch and new Opportunities
- Location
- CA
The first seems much more relevant to meditating on Zeqing, because Zeqing wasn't searching for meaning. She was attuned to Darkness, but it was a Darkness focused on preserving what she already had, rather than continuing to search outward. But Zeqing's central problem was that simply by existing as she did, she was a danger to those she cared about: she stifled Hanyi, and we know of at least one time when she had to stop herself from hurting Ling Qi after she accidentally said the wrong thing. (Something about "I wish you were my mother," I believe.) And this theme of "I am a danger to what I care about simply because of who I am" isn't isolated to her alone. Do any other mothers asking their daughters to stop them because they can't stop themselves come to mind?
Given that, doing Bastion on a turn where Ling Qi is reflecting on Zeqing allows for an opportunity to expand the lesson. After all, as a cultivator advances, they become more and more like a spirit. So what does it mean to have power, and how does simply having that power affect the world around you? And in light of how it does, how do you advance and how do you use your power without becoming a danger to others without realizing it? Because in my eyes, that is an incredibly relevant theme to Ling Qi, as a person who cares about many others weaker than herself.
That's not to say that there's nothing in We Are But Ripples that can apply to Zeqing, but those insights can happen any time: they are general to the person Ling Qi is becoming. I don't see Ling Qi reflecting and identifying with Shenhua the way she can with Zeqing, and that means that generalizing this insight back from spirits to people is less likely to happen on other turns.
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Okay, I've just finished attempting to understand the mechanics. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When we leave the sect, the main thing we're losing access to is the Argent Vent (Greater), which is most important for Balanced Projects - which only affects MoSS. Thus, it is advantageous to work on its two projects (Spirit Seeker VI, Raising the Bastion) as much as possible while we can.
We're also losing access to our Moon site (Silent Stones). Not sure about the Shattered Gaol since it's not physically part of the sect, but I think that turns out not to matter?
Falling Water Palace is development-locked, but we can still cultivate there? If not, then we are also out a Wood site (since Argent Vent helps everything).
On the other hand, for Wind projects we actually have a better site (Cathedral of Winds - assuming "+N", "+N XP", and "+N successes" are supposed to mean the same thing) at the fief. But the Shattered Gaol also gives the bonus to Spiritual Cultivation in general, so we should always spend some time there if we can? But wouldn't we be better off doing a non-Wind project there?
This implies that (although I'm not convinced on the other aspects, but it's one of the only 2 plans still viable)
[X] Plan Chilly Winds of Change
is better than
[] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
I'm not entirely sure of the implications of /3 vs /5 vs /8 projects but I'm pretty sure we want to do as much MoSS regardless, while we can.
When we leave the sect, the main thing we're losing access to is the Argent Vent (Greater), which is most important for Balanced Projects - which only affects MoSS. Thus, it is advantageous to work on its two projects (Spirit Seeker VI, Raising the Bastion) as much as possible while we can.
We're also losing access to our Moon site (Silent Stones). Not sure about the Shattered Gaol since it's not physically part of the sect, but I think that turns out not to matter?
Falling Water Palace is development-locked, but we can still cultivate there? If not, then we are also out a Wood site (since Argent Vent helps everything).
On the other hand, for Wind projects we actually have a better site (Cathedral of Winds - assuming "+N", "+N XP", and "+N successes" are supposed to mean the same thing) at the fief. But the Shattered Gaol also gives the bonus to Spiritual Cultivation in general, so we should always spend some time there if we can? But wouldn't we be better off doing a non-Wind project there?
This implies that (although I'm not convinced on the other aspects, but it's one of the only 2 plans still viable)
[X] Plan Chilly Winds of Change
is better than
[] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
I'm not entirely sure of the implications of /3 vs /5 vs /8 projects but I'm pretty sure we want to do as much MoSS regardless, while we can.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Spirit Seeker is a social trait, so I'm pretty sure Yrsillar is going to axe that as well. Just Bastion and whatever project it unlocks, though to be fair, I'm only really interested in Bastion.
According to Yrsillar on the Discord, no.
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Bastion is not particularly relevant to Zeqing - it's largely about bridging the gap in understanding between powerful spirits that lack perspective or inclination to care about humans. Zeqing was very socialised, and did have a very solid perspective on what it meant to be human - as I said before, spirits like her should not be able to restrain themselves or go against their nature like she did, which only happened as a result of her interactions with humans.
We Are Ripples is relevant to FSS+ ultimately because we rejected her understanding of the End and the importance of it, which was the catalyst for her going nuclear. Going off its key words - Endings, Beginnings, Cycles - and Ling Qi's own understanding of Endings ('All things end in time, it is the journey to ending that has meaning'), FSS+ is going to be about the journey in between, the act of striving for meaning and purpose, even if they themselves will eventually end, giving way to new things.
Hmmm... I'm wondering if I should go for Bear Paw instead tbh.
Since I was looking at our activities, and survey is being done with Xia Lin and Lao Keung - war buddies. Suggests it could be a decent opportunity for some BKSD action.
Bear Paw then I'd suggest is best because it would help to fill out a bit of a CC gap in our combat repertoire. Part of our problem is that things like LW aren't super usable because they're too powerful and fiddly to control. What we need is a nice quick stun we can pop out to interupt people or knock them out of the air or briefly pin them so our allies can jump them. Bear gives us that.
I wouldn't favour Xiangmen 2 because it's upgrading wolf, and we still haven't really shown wolf enough imo. It had one brief mention last arc, which didn't really show it much because the arc was focused more on PLR. We should show it more before we show it developing.
Since I was looking at our activities, and survey is being done with Xia Lin and Lao Keung - war buddies. Suggests it could be a decent opportunity for some BKSD action.
Bear Paw then I'd suggest is best because it would help to fill out a bit of a CC gap in our combat repertoire. Part of our problem is that things like LW aren't super usable because they're too powerful and fiddly to control. What we need is a nice quick stun we can pop out to interupt people or knock them out of the air or briefly pin them so our allies can jump them. Bear gives us that.
I wouldn't favour Xiangmen 2 because it's upgrading wolf, and we still haven't really shown wolf enough imo. It had one brief mention last arc, which didn't really show it much because the arc was focused more on PLR. We should show it more before we show it developing.
- Location
- E
Would be neat if the last Survey reward tied in with Dream, like a place where the boundary is pretty thin, or an abandoned dream temple. Could be a good way of tying it to the narrative and a place to practice Liminal Carver later on, should we pursue that path.
I'm pretty happy with both leading options. The void concept it tasty and I'm actually surprised there's so much support for it, given the whole "muddying the waters" debate regarding FSS+. Seems like the argument is equally applicable. On the whole, I'm slightly more convinced by the bastion. Getting it done now makes a lot of sense from mechanical perspective and it's a pretty good fit with the narrative too.
[X] Plan Chilly Winds of Change
I'm pretty happy with both leading options. The void concept it tasty and I'm actually surprised there's so much support for it, given the whole "muddying the waters" debate regarding FSS+. Seems like the argument is equally applicable. On the whole, I'm slightly more convinced by the bastion. Getting it done now makes a lot of sense from mechanical perspective and it's a pretty good fit with the narrative too.
[X] Plan Chilly Winds of Change
Fuck it.
Look, a lot of good points have been made about the issues with the current two leading plans.
But you know what there isn't any problems with? Smacking mobs with a Bear Paw. We can hardly not have some violence going out on an adventure with Xia Lin and Lao Keung. Like, what's going to happen? We just chat and don't get to see any of his arts? That wouldn't really count as getting to know him better let's be honest. And Bear Paw is pretty easy to show off too.
Vote for the compromise solution.
Vote:
[X] Plan Step by Step
Look, a lot of good points have been made about the issues with the current two leading plans.
But you know what there isn't any problems with? Smacking mobs with a Bear Paw. We can hardly not have some violence going out on an adventure with Xia Lin and Lao Keung. Like, what's going to happen? We just chat and don't get to see any of his arts? That wouldn't really count as getting to know him better let's be honest. And Bear Paw is pretty easy to show off too.
Vote for the compromise solution.
Vote:
[X] Plan Step by Step
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
While the +2 to Balanced Projects is nice, we can easily use the Argent Domain bonus or spend Omake points on a +2 for the Bastion project instead. The one irreplaceable benefit the Argent Vent (Greater) provides us is this -
which applies to this -
in particular. (Yrs has confirmed it applies, if you find the wording questionable.)
Combined with the maximum allowable omake bonus, that ups the action to a 70% chance of acquiring Void, compared to the 60% chance we'd have without the Vent.
(Also, Spirit Seeker VI doesn't actually benefit from site bonuses, since we can already knock it out in one action and it doesn't benefit from overkill.)
WhoTheHeckity
But no one ever asks HowTheHeckity
- Location
- Murica 🦅
BEARS
[X] Plan Step by Step
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
[X] Plan Step by Step
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
[X] Plan Chilly Winds of Change
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay so I agree that we're taking actions to fit our narratives.
So for our cultivation actions, this is what I see:
Even if Bastion does not fit with Kongyou and Xuan Shi's relationship, there are other reasons to work on it. We're still going into the Dream, and there's a good chance we'll run into high realms there. Like with Su Ling's LQ Adventure and Madame Grey and the adventure where Ling Qi first used the compass and was nearly swallowed up by a time-loop and other spirits at the revelry.
Ling Qi wants to reach the Peak of Cultivation. She is starting to find what she wants to change in the world. But after looking at so many high realm cultivators, she understands that what she wants cannot be done alone. She understands that Isolation is the worst thing one can experience, and want to work toward bringing people together. You can see it in her Concepts. Isolation and Want, for Ling Qi, are primarily about reaching out to connect with people.
So over Threads, she's been developing her Way focused on Family, Community, and connecting with others. But she knows herself. She knows she is selfish and cannot care for everyone. So, she settles on bringing people together, to ensure that they fully express themselves and do not have to suffer Isolation due to misunderstandings. Enter Isolation IV:
So where am I going with all this? Well, Bastion is an excellent way to continue that line of thinking on our Way and actually apply it to another art and how we deal with spirits. MoSS works with that and continues that thread. It's about communicating clearly to prevent conflict between man and spirit that stems from misunderstanding. Bastion works with it. Higher spirits don't understand the effects of their actions. Raising the Bastion is focused on helping them understand that, thus mitigating their harmful environmental effects. LQ has been working towards her final goal throughout Threads, and now that we've reached the latter half of Green, I think it's best if we continue working towards that focus on Understanding and Expression bridging Isolation and Community.
And lastly, Bastion will finally finally FINALLY let us crystallize our understanding of Protection.
I also want to add VOID to our Domain, but once we get it, we really don't have any way to get XP for it. However, Protection has already been added to our Domain. We already have thoughts on it. I believe we should finally crystallize them and gain concept levels from them, as we did recently with Home.
Now, onto Ripples. Ripples does not fit with our Endings concept. It's not about how we affect other people. It's not about Endings. Rather, it's about Isolation.
Ripples is from SNR, which is about Lake Hei. Lake Hei is a mirror, reflecting the sky and Earth in its infinite depths. Ripples references this, and how to find meaning in the darkness if Lake Hei when you embody it and become such a mirror. It's asking "Where does meaning rise when you are Lake Hei, a mirror, a dark VOID. What meaning of the Isolation it brings?
Well, we already have an understanding of Isolation, when you're Cold on the STREETS, from our G5 breakthrough: The meaning behind the suffering that's Isolation is to build connections formed from Understanding so that you won't be lonely again. So doing Ripples and Void to bring yet another understanding when we just got a really good one for FSS+ will just muddy things up. It'll ignore what we've already reached to go find a new metaphor for Isolation and its meaning so that VOID can be part of it. Just like with SoI and FSS+ and our understanding of Winter.
To LQ, Isolation is tied to Cold and Winter, we already have an understanding of that (Isolation) and how it connects to our burgeoning Way. We're bringing said understanding to the creation of FSS+ to crystallize it. Trying to add yet another interpretation of the meaning of Isolation, one related to the Lake Hei and the Isolation you feel as you embody such an implacable mirror, when we're already using the one from our breakthrough to work on FSS+ would be a disservice to Isolation IV.
And really, adding a whole new understanding and approach when you're about to start a project is not proper planning. You either expand the meaning BEFORE you work on something, to have a richer understanding to work in during development, or you do it AFTER when you've set your baseline and done what you planned so that you can fully explore things with an original goal in mind. Fortunately for us, we expanded our understanding of Isolation and its meaning for FSS+ BEFORE its creation this turn, with the Turn 15 finale. So Ripples and the meaning of Isolation it brings should come AFTER we've created FSS+.
That's why I think it's best to work on Bastion and MoSS, which will build on Isolation IV and the idea of reaching out to others to fight Isolation and suffering (negative effects) with understanding (showing spirits how their actions affect things) and connections, instead of doing Ripples while we're creating FSS+
But I digress. The point is, Ripples is about Isolation and not even our understanding and context for Isolation. It's not Endings. If you want Endings, rather pick [] Plan Meaning Is Depth.
So vote []Plan Chilly Winds of Change!!!
Edit: Changed some things because I was unhappy with how I worded things.
So for our cultivation actions, this is what I see:
- FSS+ with Hanyi and Idols and Ancestors
- Since we've finished Dreaming, Laughing Wind pairs well with Skelunckle so that we can continue lessons with him since we're done with ALL our Dream arts apart from Dreaming Songstress, which is our Tribulation. LFWT Skelunckle is also a cultivator of Wind and LFWT; it's one of the reasons why he recognized us iirc. Sure, LFWT can work with others, but that's another thread, and we did tell him another story, and he owes us another, so I just think it works best with him.
- Raising the Bastion paired with either the Survey or Sea of Dreams. I agree that Bastion works well with Cathedral of Winds, but I've already explained why I think it works best with the final Survey, based on how dangers increase with higher tiers. We have also used MoSS, though that was more the spirit seeker trait line when we visited the Beavers to talk to them.
Even if Bastion does not fit with Kongyou and Xuan Shi's relationship, there are other reasons to work on it. We're still going into the Dream, and there's a good chance we'll run into high realms there. Like with Su Ling's LQ Adventure and Madame Grey and the adventure where Ling Qi first used the compass and was nearly swallowed up by a time-loop and other spirits at the revelry.
- And all this is ignoring Bastion, MoSS, and its emphasis on understanding between parties fit in with Ling Qi. I've already quoted them, and I'll do so again here, but first, I'll try to explain why it works so well.
Ling Qi wants to reach the Peak of Cultivation. She is starting to find what she wants to change in the world. But after looking at so many high realm cultivators, she understands that what she wants cannot be done alone. She understands that Isolation is the worst thing one can experience, and want to work toward bringing people together. You can see it in her Concepts. Isolation and Want, for Ling Qi, are primarily about reaching out to connect with people.
So over Threads, she's been developing her Way focused on Family, Community, and connecting with others. But she knows herself. She knows she is selfish and cannot care for everyone. So, she settles on bringing people together, to ensure that they fully express themselves and do not have to suffer Isolation due to misunderstandings. Enter Isolation IV:
So where am I going with all this? Well, Bastion is an excellent way to continue that line of thinking on our Way and actually apply it to another art and how we deal with spirits. MoSS works with that and continues that thread. It's about communicating clearly to prevent conflict between man and spirit that stems from misunderstanding. Bastion works with it. Higher spirits don't understand the effects of their actions. Raising the Bastion is focused on helping them understand that, thus mitigating their harmful environmental effects. LQ has been working towards her final goal throughout Threads, and now that we've reached the latter half of Green, I think it's best if we continue working towards that focus on Understanding and Expression bridging Isolation and Community.
- We only have 3 turns left in the Sect, and without the Greater Argent Vent, we won't be able to cultivate MoSS without spending omake points. It's not a case of us doubling down. It's simply a matter of completing the action. And MoSS has another project after Bastion which has a high chance of requiring 8 XP to finish. This is one of the only times where we can actually fit in well during those 3 turns. I'm ignoring the Spirit Seeker quest because that's the social art trait line and Yrs said we're done with those.
And lastly, Bastion will finally finally FINALLY let us crystallize our understanding of Protection.
I also want to add VOID to our Domain, but once we get it, we really don't have any way to get XP for it. However, Protection has already been added to our Domain. We already have thoughts on it. I believe we should finally crystallize them and gain concept levels from them, as we did recently with Home.
Now, onto Ripples. Ripples does not fit with our Endings concept. It's not about how we affect other people. It's not about Endings. Rather, it's about Isolation.
Ripples is from SNR, which is about Lake Hei. Lake Hei is a mirror, reflecting the sky and Earth in its infinite depths. Ripples references this, and how to find meaning in the darkness if Lake Hei when you embody it and become such a mirror. It's asking "Where does meaning rise when you are Lake Hei, a mirror, a dark VOID. What meaning of the Isolation it brings?
Well, we already have an understanding of Isolation, when you're Cold on the STREETS, from our G5 breakthrough: The meaning behind the suffering that's Isolation is to build connections formed from Understanding so that you won't be lonely again. So doing Ripples and Void to bring yet another understanding when we just got a really good one for FSS+ will just muddy things up. It'll ignore what we've already reached to go find a new metaphor for Isolation and its meaning so that VOID can be part of it. Just like with SoI and FSS+ and our understanding of Winter.
To LQ, Isolation is tied to Cold and Winter, we already have an understanding of that (Isolation) and how it connects to our burgeoning Way. We're bringing said understanding to the creation of FSS+ to crystallize it. Trying to add yet another interpretation of the meaning of Isolation, one related to the Lake Hei and the Isolation you feel as you embody such an implacable mirror, when we're already using the one from our breakthrough to work on FSS+ would be a disservice to Isolation IV.
And really, adding a whole new understanding and approach when you're about to start a project is not proper planning. You either expand the meaning BEFORE you work on something, to have a richer understanding to work in during development, or you do it AFTER when you've set your baseline and done what you planned so that you can fully explore things with an original goal in mind. Fortunately for us, we expanded our understanding of Isolation and its meaning for FSS+ BEFORE its creation this turn, with the Turn 15 finale. So Ripples and the meaning of Isolation it brings should come AFTER we've created FSS+.
That's why I think it's best to work on Bastion and MoSS, which will build on Isolation IV and the idea of reaching out to others to fight Isolation and suffering (negative effects) with understanding (showing spirits how their actions affect things) and connections, instead of doing Ripples while we're creating FSS+
But I digress. The point is, Ripples is about Isolation and not even our understanding and context for Isolation. It's not Endings. If you want Endings, rather pick [] Plan Meaning Is Depth.
So vote []Plan Chilly Winds of Change!!!
Edit: Changed some things because I was unhappy with how I worded things.
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- Location
- The Moon
[X] Plan Snow Snake
Okay then, but why does acquiring Void matter at all? We already have numerous low-level concepts to ignore. We just entered Framing and already have enough Concept levels for Formation (and plenty of opportunities for more for the later stages); the main barrier to our progression, besides XP, is the advanced insights which are then needed for Fortification, and whatever the DNQ is for Completion.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
The point of having Void in our domain is just to have Void in our Domain, rather than for any sort of breakpoint minmaxing. Others have already done a better job shilling for it than I'm inclined to atm, like here -
and you're free to check those posts out, but it's also worth noting that we've recently seen one of our low-rank Concepts, Chaos, getting absorbed by a higher one, Motion, granting the Motion concept anti-precognitive abilities. Getting something useful out of a rare and flavorful concept and then absorbing it into one of our more core concepts for mechanical reasons would be work pretty well for us.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
[X] Plan Step by Step