Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Well, the best thing was just to be pleasant, yes? She'd just mess things up trying to toe the line of politeness. So sure, let him be, she'd just treat him like any other plus one Wang Chao had brought along. Maybe she could get him to cough up what he wanted without dragging it out.

<Sixiang,> Ling Qi thought. <Could you let Xuan Shi know my thoughts on this? I'd like to not leave him out.>

She didn't forget his words, his impression that she didn't respect him. She saw no reason to feed Kongyou's plots on that account.
Its a good touch. Keeping your friends informed is key to such social strategies or else they're going to be rather justifiably upset by your madlibs.
"Weigh this ones opinion how you will, but thy design principles are sound, however they came about," Xuan Shi said thoughtfully, glancing her way.

"He says he's fine just treating the guy as another guest, as long as he acts the part," Sixiang whispered.
I like the doubletalk Xuan Shi made here.
The statement could apply equally to the formationcraft and to the social scene.


He turned and they followed Zhengui's trundling footsteps drowning out the natural ambience as they climbed the rest of the way to the top of the hill, to a wide patch clear of any scrub, brush, or indeed grass.

"Well cleared," Xuan Shi mused.

"Big Sis said it was okay to eat everything, since we would grow it back later," Gui affirmed.
Zhengui the lawnmower!
"This one is thankful for the consideration," Xuan Shi said politely. She had spoken to her little brother at length about trying to be polite, and it seemed to be working. "Most key in recent efforts has been the development of these gauntlets. More than armor, they are mobile forges and carvers."

He extended his arms shaking out his sleeves to better show off the blocky gauntlets she had seen him wearing for some time now, they were made of some kind of ceramic, glazed in dark brown and green colors that matched his robes, meticulously articulated to allow for near full range of motion.

As she watched they whirred and clicked and panels on the back of his wrists opened, spitting hexagonal ceramic plates into the air, she felt the qi in his arms pulse and complex formations flashed across their surface with a sizzling hiss, the plates began to whirl lazily around him.

"A combinatination of an art with a talisman?" Ling Qi mused

"Ah, I have heard of this! I did not know that you could perform such crafts without the backing of Shen," Wang Chao said, watching the panels fly. "How do you perform the replication?"

Luo Zhong watched silently, but Ling Qi could feel he was paying attention.

"The plates are stored uncarved, the purpose of the gauntlets is to store and impress the formation patterns," Xuan Shi said graciously, allowing more and more of the whirling panels to emerge. "This one merely developed upon the work of his ancestors in the art. An old construction art made useful to this purpose."
This hadn't gotten a lot of attention but formations that 'print' formations.
Thats one way to deal with the problem of overloading formations destroying the subtrate. It's a lot easier to feed more ceramic plates into the gauntlets than to replace the whole formation. The individual plates would probably fail sooner, but Xuan Shi can just keep replacing them.

You'd have to grind through his qi reserves spent on flash printing formations.
"Here, here, no one better to take inspiration from than our Duchess," Wang Chao said, only to blink. "Er, that is except your own Duke of course my friend!"

"The Duke Xuan eyes are cast upon other seas," Xuan Shi chuckled. "There is no offense. All wise in talisman craft look hungrily upon the developments of the Emerald Seas."
Wonder what the Xuan duke specializes in.

But yeah, I imagine just seeing PART of how a White formations master works is going to have major repercussions on the craft.
"Go get him Mr. Avalanche!" Gui declared cheerfully from the sidelines. "I'll make sure you don't break the hill!"

Her little brother was a good boy really, Ling Qi thought. She felt his roots growing throughout the hill binding dirt and stone together in a web of living wood
The sect would probably bill them for the damage otherwise.
"Brother Luo certainly involves himself in many projects," Ling Qi said lightly.

"It is wise to have a diverse array of investments," Luo Zhong said.

There was a tremendous bang and the hill shook violently under their feet, a spiderweb of cracks spreading backward from the point where Wang Chao had stood. The shockwave of impact as his charging shoulder struck the gathered barrier of hexagonal plates sent her hair fluttering and Wang Chao became visible agin his feet having dug furrows in the dirt where he had landed after bouncing off.

"It seems that lack of focus could be detrimental though," Ling Qi said.

"A possibility," Luo Zhong admitted. "But we cannot all be blessed by fortune. Some endeavors fail, and thus it is important to have other plans."
Lack of commitment does mean nobody commits to you in turn.
People don't like being used to fish for a possible benefit without some degree of commitment.
"And you see opportunity here?" Ling Qi asked.

"The Xuan will be a greater presence going forward, it would be good if I could make connections, going forward. The same goes for your matter. It seems I might have made an error though," Luo Zhong said.

"This is after all, an informal gathering. I am sure you will have opportunities, if your impression is good," Ling Qi said.

He chuckled. "This reversal does not escape me. But look, Sect Brother Wang is about to make a breakthrough, I think."
Well, maybe he would pick up the power of friendship.
Or at least fake it.
.
Ling Qi looked back in time to hear the faint crack of shattering ceramic and see the fragments of a broken tile fall to the ground. Wang Chao stood, breathing heavily on the cratered hilltop, but a moment later he grinned. "So there is a limit to how much energy you can redirect!"

"Brother Wang is vigilant," Xuan Shi said, a touch of pride in his voice. "But can he keep up such speed for long enough?"

"Nay, not like this," Wang Chao laughed. "But its interesting! You aren't stopping me, that would be much harder! You are stealing my momentum!"

She thought she saw Xuan Shi smiling behind his collar. "Repurposing the enemies qi allows the technique to maintain itself for longer action. ...But Brother Wang has seen that the storage may be overwhelmed."

"Hmph, perhaps with my beast and my spear I I might break through for a few blows," Wang Chao said, stroking his chin thoughtfully. "But truly I am not certain I could defeat you unaided Sect Brother."

Hmm, wonder if he was inspired by our Qi draining
The limit is probably only noticable because of the expendable ceramic tiles though. If he used etched metal odds are good it could take bigger hits.

Hmm, might have room for improvement if the stored qi can go to potency as well but that'd require additional logic loops which themselves might be an added point of vulnerability.

Ling Qi nodded once, and spread her arms, sining a high clear bar. The wind howled, the ground frosted, and the whirling panels immediately snapped together into a solid dome that flashed a deep, nearly black blue as it met the force of her Hoarfrost Refrain.

Ling Qi allowed silver to bleed into her eyes as she studied the way her offensive qi scattered. It struck like a blizzard wind, but shattered on contact with the tiles, strands of qi unwound and separated, a fractal breaking that shredded the qi of her attack into smaller and smaller parts absorbed by the tiles.

The wind whipped up, her gown and cloak fluttered, and the ice of winter howled again to the same effect, three times more, a quick and strident melody, and Ling Qi's eyes narrowed. The feeling of his defense was all too familiar.

Isolation.

Weaponized, or perhaps, armorized? That was what his defenses did, they broke things down again and again, until each strand of qi each mote of power was alone and weak, then absorbed them. The adaptive component… each time they met a similar construct, his arts and the arrays of the talismans were able to break the offending technique down faster, more efficiently, taking less damage.

Her voice rose and an eagle screamed. The tremendous phantom swooped down and dashed itself upon the intractable barrier that met it. Twice more the eagle, and then again the ice. The Hoarfrost scattered slower this time, not quite as slow as the first time she had used it,but slower all the same.

"Sister Ling has had a revelation," Xuan Shi said mildly as the barrier around him broke apart, leaving them face to face on the now well ruined hilltop.
Hmm, not as pronounced individually, but a squad could probably entirely bypass the adaptation by rotating their attacks to batter it down.

Or with multiple attackers, possibly overwhelm the splitting effect by multiple harmonized attacks building off each other so it cannot vent forces.

oh my god I've only just realized that if you read Ling Qi's name in western order it's practically pronounced "chilling"

Qi Ling -> Qilin.

As someone JUST reminded me of a pun.
Ice Qilin -> Bing Qi Lin -> Icecream
 
Hmm, wonder if he was inspired by our Qi draining
The limit is probably only noticable because of the expendable ceramic tiles though. If he used etched metal odds are good it could take bigger hits.
I think he based the whole system off of the way a Nightmare functions. It tears apart connections, wears down the isolated, and devours their energy in order to propagate itself, discarding the used tiles/victims as it goes. It's an armor that's the "Nightmare of the Emerald Seas"

I also think that it'd be extraordinarily effective against the volleys of same-Art attacks from the Barbarians, as it severs the connections of the arrows to one another as they fly in and becomes more efficient at countering that attack each time it devours one.

it also, uh, mirrors the way we saw "Crucible" work. Yeah? Split, divide and absorb the individuals to further fuel the ability for the White Plumes to split, divide and absorb the enemy.

What's more interesting to me would be, if this is a set inspired by Kongyou well. What would something inspired by Sixiang be?

I was thinking some sort of passive, static consumable like a battery, that empowers the ability of one that accesses/activates it to breach the boundaries between the Liminal and Material. Something that empowers Constructs and bolsters them by connecting them better to the Material through the time spent charging. Could be a very neat way to get localized guards/spirits to punch above their weight class for a short time. Or maybe it can help solve the inefficiency issue of power-suits?

probably not ideal for persistent work, but since cultivator combat is faster at lower ranks it doesn't have to function for long to make an impact on a fight. Ephemeral bursts of power as the land lends a hand in the defense of one of its custodians. Might help with attrition rates.
 
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What's more interesting to me would be, if this is a set inspired by Kongyou well. What would something inspired by Sixiang be?

How about taking advantage of LQ's domain's border effect and exaggerate it alongside Sixiang's Chaos Locus so that it makes an area take on the properties of the Liminal? Those unprepared for Liminal interaction would be quite screwed and that's basically everyone at low Realms.

This could potentially be generalized into a technique that replaces a prepared area with properties from somewhere else. This could be useful for crafting as I imagine being able to have a "volcano room" might be helpful for working with Fire and a "river room" might be useful for Water based items.

Edit: You could apply a similar principle to roads and make them behave as though they were part of the Liminal. The interesting property here is the distance of places in the Liminal is strongly related to how closely associated they are. Sustained trade would thus "bring them closer together" both metaphorically and literally.
 
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I think he based the whole system off of the way a Nightmare functions. It tears apart connections, wears down the isolated, and devours their energy in order to propagate itself, discarding the used tiles/victims as it goes. It's an armor that's the "Nightmare of the Emerald Seas"

Isn't that kinda reaching too far? I doubt nightmares are the only one who use divide & conquer stratagem: ice spirits like Zequing prey on isolated targets, barbarians lure imperials into overextention until they are left alone, to name a few.
 
Isn't that kinda reaching too far? I doubt nightmares are the only one who use divide & conquer stratagem: ice spirits like Zequing prey on isolated targets, barbarians lure imperials into overextention until they are left alone, to name a few.
True, but the nightmare is the one we know he's had direct access to. Supposing that it was inspired by a spirit it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume it was that one in particular.
 
Not all Fun and Games
Wood splintered, then shattered, then burned as Ji Rong's back slammed into the dull red trunk of the tree. The plant let out a weird, high pitched scream even as its burning trunk fell, branches and vines lashing at him even as his body dug a trench in the damp soil and razor sharp grass. Worms, ants and things he didn't have a name for writhed up out of the upturned earth, crawling, biting, seeking his blood.

Lightning flashed under the shadowed canopy and vermin burned as he sprang to his feet, already falling back into a defensive stance.

It was just in time, as the towering shape of his opponent crashed through the treeline. It was a huge thing, four meters tall and almost as wide, skin like petrified bark, a gaping maw of snaggle teeth below squinting piggish eyes. It was shaped vaguely like a man or an ape, with short, powerful legs and long heavy arms.

Ji Rong spat a mouthful of blood to the side. "Bring it Fatty."

He barely raised his arm in time to meet massive calloused knuckles with his forearm, deflecting the strike away. There was a gross sucking sound as the beast's right arm, stretched like rubber to cross the half dozen meters between them, snapped back into normal shape. The beast made a low guttural sound like laughter, it's weird stretched out mouth bearing even more teeth.

Fuckin thing wanted to toy with him?

Ji Rong let out a below as he launched himself forward, lightning blazing in his veins, is fist slammed into the things tremendous gut, half a hundred strikes hitting in the space between eyeblinks.

Rough flesh gave way, cratering under his hits, and for a second, he felt his confidence surge. Then, rubbery flesh snapped back, and the reversal of his own momentum hurled him backward. He caught himself, landing on his feet as they dug new furrows in the mud.

There the thing stood, smoke rising from its distended gut. Guttural guffaws shook the trees again as it stalked forward, and its arms snapped out, stretching across the clearing in a dozen lazy, probing strikes.

He juked to the left to dodge the first, blocked the second, and fell back into his defensive stance to dodge the rest. His face twisted up in frustration. Of course they'd send him out against something that resisted his normal moves. Still, he wasn't gonna fail Liling by fucking up his officers test.

Lightning flared, cooking the sharp edged grass into blackened ash and light bloomed behind his back into the crackling ring of his domain weapon. His footing shifted, heel digging into the muddy earth as he stabilized his center of gravity in the face of an incoming fist the size of his torso. He jabbed with his right and thunder roared as air tore apart. Fist struck fist and the shockwave that rippled out shattered smaller tree trunks out to ten paces. The air wailed with another peel of thunder as the beasts left fist came in from behind, stretched at impossible length and twisting angles. He jerked his head to side and felt several hairs rip free.

Again and again, the earth deformed under the force of thunder and repeated shockwaves and lightning scorched away grass and weeds that grew back almost as fast as they were burned, their crimson thorns hungry for blood.

No partners, no talismans, no tools, just flesh and blood and fury. Over the sound of continuous thunderclaps he heard the damn plant ogre let out another guttural chortle as their fists clashed a hundred times tearing about the jungle.

Ji Rong's nostrils flared and the edge of his vision went red. For just a second, in the fat ogres face he saw silver hair, blank eyes and that fucking smirk. Lightning blazed and he heard himself scream in rage.

The lightning qi was burning hot in rubbery flesh, but dampened somehow by its nature. He couldn't say why, probably some bullshit jungle magic. But that didn't matter. It wasn't all staying in place.

The beast stumbled for a moment as his next shout roared with thunder qi, raw force blasting twisting, stretching arms off course to crash among the trees .

The ground. It was flowing down into the ground. He couldn't pierce this one. It stretched and snapped but never broke.

Mud and stone cratered and burned under his feet as he became the lightning, human senses vanishing inthe rush of raw unfiltered power. The distance between them vanished and he felt his fist dig into thick, viscous flesh again.

Lightning sparked and died barely making it an centimeter past the surface. The fucking thing laughed at him again, but its arms were retracting too slow. He had two seconds. His other fist jabbed out, and this time he didn't bring the first back, and instead dug his fingers into the things rubbery skin.

His knees bent, his shoulders flexed, and Ji Rong flipped the ogre into the air.

A fist slammed into his back, and then a second, he felt his bones creak. He became the lightning again, and this time rose straight into the sky. The detonation of thunder stripped leaves from the first layer of the jungle canopy and snapped branches as thick as the trunks of smaller trees. The force of his blow was deadened the beasts chest cratering inward as if it had no bones, but still it tumbled a few meters further up

Ji Rong felt himself begin to fall. He couldn't fly, not so lucky as some. His feet touched down on two golden discs, catching himself with the weapon that had become another limb. He couldn't fly, no, but he could jump pretty damn good.

Up again, thunder crashed, and the beasts chest cratered further, the heat of the lightning pooling where his fists struck home, growing with each of a hundred strikes. In return fists like boulders slammed down on him. He felt something crack in his jaw, mouth filling with blood. He felt his ribs groan.

He landed on his domain weapon and jumped again. They rose higher into the air with each cycle, punching through thickening vegetation, and clawlike branches dug into the both of them drawing bleeding wounds. The crater in the beasts chest deepened with each blow, and the ogres piggish eyes grew wide and its movements more panicked, at the bottom of the crater of stretching flesh thick hide had begun to glow cherry red with heat.

Ji Rong landed again and this time when he launched himself up the last of the disks burst into radiant light. This time his fist struck home, and he heard something tear. Roaring out a warcry, he let all of the built up power he had been storing flood through his meridians and muscles. In the next moment he saw light, the sun shining down through the hole blasted in the jungle canopy. For a moment he felt himself floating in midair, right fist extended and painted in dark red blood.

Below was the ogre, a Ji Rong sized hole torn in its chest, tumbling back to earth. Then, he began to fall too, the air screaming past him.He landed in a sloppy crouch atop his weapon and felt a surge of exhaustion as it began to fall too.

He grimaced, his little cheat drank qi the way a drunk guzzled cheap wine. Fighting the surge of exhaustion, he leapt again and this time dug his fingers into the bark of one of the massive trees, letting the drag slow his momentum for the last few hundred meters of the fall.

By the time he hit the ground he absorbed the force with a quick flex of his legs, ripping his fingers away from the tree before the acidic sap could burn him anymore. He grimaced as he glanced around, half of the broken trees were already growing back and the jungle had almost erased the signs of his battle. Even the hole overhead was shrinking by the second.

"You know, most people work out a new plan, or figure out how to leverage secondary skill," A dry voice drawled. They build traps, or trick their target into a greater enemy."

"What can I say, I'm pretty dumb," Ji Rong replied, not looking around as he panted for breath.

"Hm, that's not something an officer should admit," the voice said, and this time a slim hand dangling a waterskin from delicate fingers came into view.

Ji Rong snatched the skin and guzzled from the qi enriched mineral water inside. Finally he raised his head to look at the other person. She looked like a taller Lu Feng, thin, pale, way too much hair. The difference was in the form fit plates of armor, made from the scales of something that had to be pretty damn big, and the tremendous greatsword, carved from the fang of something even bigger laying across her back. He didn't know how they were related; anything past cousins was still kinda gibberish to him.

"A boss has to know where he sucks so his people can shore it up," Ji Rong shot back, glaring at Lu Daxia.

She pursed her lips in a frown, resting her hand on her chin. "That is not wholly wrong, and yet…"

"I make it sound dumb," Ji Rong grunted. "You're gonna have to give me a minute if you want me to sound smart.

She huffed in amusement and Ji Rong grimaced as he felt her hand on his head tousling his hair like he was some snot nosed brat.

...There was no point in trying to avoid it. He'd given up after the first week, she was too fast.

"Well, Sir fool," she drawled, "Despite your methods you have passed the last physical tests, you are capable of survival as a baron in the Western Territories. Congratulations."

"Does that mean I can see Li-" He grimaced as she gave him a sharp look. "Does that mean I can see Princess Sun again?"

The older woman sighed. "Still too arrogant by a half. The princess has many familial matters to deal with. Aren't you thinking too highly of yourself?"

Ji Rong grunted as he rose, swaying to his feet. He knew Liling was important, but all the princess stuff hadn't really gotten into his head before he was here. He'd only seen her once since they'd parted ways a month ago, and that was from across the throne room during some official thing.

...She'd been off, something about her eyes had bothered him, and the way that she talked as well. He knew her well enough to recognize her noble-speak, it'd been more than that.

She'd reminded him of Dharitri. Even then he was sure he'd caught her eye, but her grandfather led her away before they could talk.

"Pfeh, We'll be going back to the Sect soon-ish anyway," Ji Rong said.

Lu Daxia gave him an unreadable look as he stepped past her, heading back toward where he remembered the road to be. "Indeed? Well, I had intended to allow you a rest, but it seems we will need to accelerate your enrollment."

Ji Rong stopped turning his head to look at her. "What, I thought this was the last test?"

She nodded cheerfully. "It is, Sir Fool. However since you have favorable odds of living a decade, that merely means we are not wasting our time with your administration courses."

Ji Rong's groan echoed far among the trees.
 
Lightning sparked and died barely making it an centimeter past the surface. The fucking thing laughed at him again, but its arms were retracting too slow. He had two seconds. His other fist jabbed out, and this time he didn't bring the first back, and instead dug his fingers into the things rubbery skin.
Rubber creature. Doesn't conduct electricity and blows bounce off of it. Seems like a decent counter to Ji Rong. Very cool.
 
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For just a second, in the fat ogres face he saw silver hair, blank eyes and that fucking smirk.
The next name Elder Su called was Huang Da. Ling Qi didn;t recognize it, but she had never been great at keeping track of names. The names owner turned out to be one of the others who had received a pill last week, the boy with the short silver hair and the unsettling expressionless face.
The face Ji Rong saw, that wasn't Ling Qi or Hanyi. It was the Huang that killed his sister, the one Ji Rong killed in turn and was branded a criminal.

Rubber creature. Doesn't conduct electricity and blows bounce off of it. Seems like a decent counter to Ji Rong. Very cool.
Seems like a decent counter to the Heavenly Dragon that permanently scarred the jungle, yeah. Probably also a decent counter to the Heavenly Dragon-raised Sage Emperor that waged a civilization-ending war against the jungle, too.
 
Ji Rong continues to be a surprisingly interesting character so props for that as well as continuing to flesh out Sun Liling's faction.
 
Mmm, so on another subject entirely I was thinking about music. Because we know LQ's music is currently stagnating a bit, with us needing to unlock the next level... and god I really want the music arc @yrsillar :cry:.

We've spoken before about how part of the issue imo is that LQ has yet to really explore music beyond the limited range she learnt from her teachers. She hasn't really looked into the broader ES music scene or theory much beyond some cursory awareness of Grandmistress Lei. She definitely needs to study more.

At the same time though, I think another big issue is that she hasn't really interogated her own musical philosophy for a long time. The last significant thoughts we had on it were back during her Green breakthrough more than a year ago - and she has grown so much since then. Back then she was so very small and antisocial. She is, simply, bigger and more connected now.

And this is important I feel because that idea of "music is just a small personal thing for me and close friends" has become a bit of a brainworm for LQ and the thread, tied into her discomfort with commercialisation1, but also isn't really accurate now. Look at how she's grown! She uses music to connect to and understand alien entities! To connect to allies she isn't that close with. To struggle and fight against the world and her enemies. To perceive and understand the connections and echoes of peoples actions! Her music is not a small private thing. It is, to be sure, still deeply personal - but that's because it's her cultivation! That's true for all cultivation!

She has performed publicly for political reasons and Renxiang's parties, albeit somewhat resentfully - but back then she was also going through all her social struggles and resenting socialising with new people as well. Again, she has grown since then, and grown bigger. She has come to a better understanding of society, and how she and her goals fit into that. Yet she hasn't reflected on what this means for her music and cultivation, despite playing with her music arts in ways that relate to this.

And then there's Grandmistress Lei... honestly, I'm not sure how much she's actually the best fit for LQ anyway (though in fairness LQ still hasn't really studied her school much either). Because yes, as a result of her arts and teachers LQ's music is heavily inspired by nature - but at the same time LQ is, as we sometimes note, really a city girl? Her goals and aspirations - and indeed job rn - are fundamentally social. About people. She's not a hermit like the Grandmistress. Her relation to nature tends to be more metaphorical than anything - FVM is the tribulations of isolation, while she connected to the yandere-ness of Zeqing. I feel that she probably should study the school of Grandmaster Jiang. I think it would provide a highly relevant perspective to her interests, even if she doesn't necessarily mesh with it perfectly.

~~~~
1which is, I would note, perfectly reasonable and proper. As a proper young noblewoman such crash commercialism is beneath us. We should be acquiring money incidentally as a byproduct of honorable political pursuits, not seeking it out like some kind of merchant.
 
Renlong is probably also having a shit time here, since almost everything should be resistant or have a counter to their heavenly lightning.
 
I have mixed feelings on the Music Grandmasters, as it relates to Ling Qi's burgeoning relationship with the past. One the one hand, they're undoubtedly important historical figures who have influenced the course of history. But on the other hand, the ones that have been titled "Grandmasters" are, well, known. Exhaustively interrogated by the interested experts, and their findings handed out to the general public, with some portion of knowledge secreted away by the powerful and established. And, like, that's a combination of "shallow" and "too much work", for me. The general knowledge, that which defines the Grandmasters, is basically just out there and not very gripping or dynamic to engage with as a seeker of tales. The hidden knowledge is all snapped up by entrenched powers it basically cannot be worth the risks or efforts to pry it from, and it's dubious whether it would hold compelling purpose to us to match the labours put in.

The ground's too well tread to be fertile, imo.

Especially when we've got a more or less direct line to Greater Spirits related to this stuff. For me, the sensible immediate route is hit up that Lunar revel, and actually dive into the subject matter like we failed to do when we were first exposed, or any time since. As a plus, it should help out Sixiang's muse aspect, which has been pretty neglected.
 
I have mixed feelings on the Music Grandmasters, as it relates to Ling Qi's burgeoning relationship with the past. One the one hand, they're undoubtedly important historical figures who have influenced the course of history. But on the other hand, the ones that have been titled "Grandmasters" are, well, known. Exhaustively interrogated by the interested experts, and their findings handed out to the general public, with some portion of knowledge secreted away by the powerful and established. And, like, that's a combination of "shallow" and "too much work", for me. The general knowledge, that which defines the Grandmasters, is basically just out there and not very gripping or dynamic to engage with as a seeker of tales. The hidden knowledge is all snapped up by entrenched powers it basically cannot be worth the risks or efforts to pry it from, and it's dubious whether it would hold compelling purpose to us to match the labours put in.

The ground's too well tread to be fertile, imo.

Especially when we've got a more or less direct line to Greater Spirits related to this stuff. For me, the sensible immediate route is hit up that Lunar revel, and actually dive into the subject matter like we failed to do when we were first exposed, or any time since. As a plus, it should help out Sixiang's muse aspect, which has been pretty neglected.
Not unreasonable, but the important thing is more the ideas and established theory and learning they represent imo. Like, yes, we can try to reinvent the wheel as an self-creating ubermensch, but we do live in a society. And that's important.

In that vein, yes, the grandmasters aren't necessarily necessary - but they do provide useful touchstones and foci for a story with limited room for anything.

I think that that general knowledge which you disdain as "insufficiently gripping", is actually a fairly important foundation to have the more dramatic tales and quests build upon? The themes of society and connection and building upon the past are important here imo.
 
And then there's Grandmistress Lei... honestly, I'm not sure how much she's actually the best fit for LQ anyway (though in fairness LQ still hasn't really studied her school much either). Because yes, as a result of her arts and teachers LQ's music is heavily inspired by nature - but at the same time LQ is, as we sometimes note, really a city girl? Her goals and aspirations - and indeed job rn - are fundamentally social. About people. She's not a hermit like the Grandmistress. Her relation to nature tends to be more metaphorical than anything - FVM is the tribulations of isolation, while she connected to the yandere-ness of Zeqing. I feel that she probably should study the school of Grandmaster Jiang. I think it would provide a highly relevant perspective to her interests, even if she doesn't necessarily mesh with it perfectly.
I mean I get it and not married to any particular school but Ling Qi's also going to be leaving for the Wall soon to manage a untamed border fief so music about nature and the feelings it invokes aren't exactly going to be useless.
 
I mean I get it and not married to any particular school but Ling Qi's also going to be leaving for the Wall soon to manage a untamed border fief so music about nature and the feelings it invokes aren't exactly going to be useless.
Overall I think that LQ should probably be studying both schools in order to better develop her foundation and perspective on music. Because rn she's kind of very limited, and I feel like that's probably part of the issue with her growth at the moment?

My guess is that with study we'd probably end up placing her somewhere between the two schools, but it's hard to say.
 
Not unreasonable, but the important thing is more the ideas and established theory and learning they represent imo. Like, yes, we can try to reinvent the wheel as an self-creating ubermensch, but we do live in a society. And that's important.

In that vein, yes, the grandmasters aren't necessarily necessary - but they do provide useful touchstones and foci for a story with limited room for anything.

I think that that general knowledge which you disdain as "insufficiently gripping", is actually a fairly important foundation to have the more dramatic tales and quests build upon? The themes of society and connection and building upon the past are important here imo.
Oh, I just wanna loot more dynamic and tangible figures/entities for the stuff.

The problem I have with grandmasters is they're either too big and far away to mean anything, or we're all the way zoomed up on one person's take on them, at which point the grandmaster again barely means much. They're not an unuseful narrative device, but they're going to run out really quick, imo. Unless we get an actual stake on the matter, which I... don't want? I wouldn't feel like the story was enriched if Ling Qi decided she was a proponent/follower of some grandmaster's style or another, and I don't think you would either. There's really high barriers to any kind of buy-in there anyway. Resources that shouldn't realistically be available, and that would be yet another layer of abstraction we'd be overlaying with our clowncar of aesthetics.

Likewise, I'm not sure it'd add anything for Ling Qi to interrogate the regional preferences on music theory when she sweeps through a new area of the province or anything, either.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look at the Grandmasters at all. I'm saying the utility seems starkly limited. Unless it's just stealthy efforts to realign Ling Qi to Bao Qian's musical framework, or something.

Plus, I think it can easily be argued that Ling Qi lacks the foundation necessary to actually coherently study any of the grandmasters' styles.
 
Oh, I just wanna loot more dynamic and tangible figures/entities for the stuff.

The problem I have with grandmasters is they're either too big and far away to mean anything, or we're all the way zoomed up on one person's take on them, at which point the grandmaster again barely means much. They're not an unuseful narrative device, but they're going to run out really quick, imo. Unless we get an actual stake on the matter, which I... don't want? I wouldn't feel like the story was enriched if Ling Qi decided she was a proponent/follower of some grandmaster's style or another, and I don't think you would either. There's really high barriers to any kind of buy-in there anyway. Resources that shouldn't realistically be available, and that would be yet another layer of abstraction we'd be overlaying with our clowncar of aesthetics.

Likewise, I'm not sure it'd add anything for Ling Qi to interrogate the regional preferences on music theory when she sweeps through a new area of the province or anything, either.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look at the Grandmasters at all. I'm saying the utility seems starkly limited. Unless it's just stealthy efforts to realign Ling Qi to Bao Qian's musical framework, or something.

Plus, I think it can easily be argued that Ling Qi lacks the foundation necessary to actually coherently study any of the grandmasters' styles.
Mmm, that's fair yeah.

I think what I want is for LQ to broaden her perspectives, and have her ideas about music challenged yeah. You're right that sitting down and studying on screen probably wouldn't be that great.

I was slightly tongue and cheek on discord when I suggested that what we need is a music tournament arc, but something like that could actually be the best way to show different schools and engage with them in a dynamic and engaging way? Actually meeting other musicians and playing with them like we did with Xia Anxi might be better? That kind of philosophical argument and debate to challenge ideas...
 
I was slightly tongue and cheek on discord when I suggested that what we need is a music tournament arc, but something like that could actually be the best way to show different schools and engage with them in a dynamic and engaging way? Actually meeting other musicians and playing with them like we did with Xia Anxi might be better? That kind of philosophical argument and debate to challenge ideas...

Something like a contest for promising musicians to perform at Xiangmen, maybe? A celebration after the war or achieving a big victory? I really like the idea and though a tournament arc is stretching it a bit, an audition would be perfectly reasonable!

I agree that certain familiarity with Grandmasters will be necessary. They're like Mozart or Beethoven; she'll need to know them just to talk shop with other musicians. She won't need to study them but it'll still be useful for social purposes and to know what is considered the pinnacle of music.

In terms of influence, I'd be keen to learn from White Sky. Incorporating their style would give us a leg up in terms of freshness and there's a lot of ideas that could be bounced off between the two cultures (and hence the musical styles).
 
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