Snow
Doka
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So basically she wants to be a magical girl, kicking ass while looking girl as heck.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- The Space Between
LAN LAN I LOVE HER AHHHHHHHH!! <3 <3 <3 <3
Xiulan is struggling here because she hasn't gotten everything she ever wanted. What she wants is the freedom to pursue her passions and one of those passions is deeper connections with those around her.
I think the observation that she was "gold digging" for "leader of the group Han Jian" is incorrect. Xiulan has never really had peer friends, because servants don't count and her sisters were all older and of a different disposition. Han Jian was not only a cute boy of peer age, but also he's laid back enough to go along with Xiulan's fiery energy wherever she would have wandered off to. Barring the political situation, they could be a good match. He consistently needs a "fire burning under him" to keep him motivated and moving properly, and Xiulan wants someone that will see her for who she is, accept her, and join her on her energetic escapades.
The issue with Han Jian being that his "ambitions" are mostly foisted upon him by lineage, and he hasn't made the decision to "choose to be chosen" as it were. Without his own personal ambition fueling him, his own personal drive fueling him, his talent and resources will only take him so far.
Xiulan isn't happy here because she assumed that getting the station and trappings of station would automatically mean that they would suit her. That she would be recognized for who she is rather than what she can do. The trappings of station are made for a male heir that hasn't arrived. The station itself is for a fighting man, echoing the male warlords of Golden Fields Lu before they exploded.
Thankfully, the other important part of this station is that it is for a passionate, talented and ambitious individual. She fits the bill in that regard, and will likely begin to feel better as she pushes to assert herself with more confidence.
She is very grateful for inheritance. She appreciates the finer things in life.
However.
She is very aware that to grow the Gu she will have to provide much more than she accepts in investment.
She would be more comfortable in gear she personally commissioned with personal winnings. She would be about as comfortable on a stone floor at the spot in the prestigious Sect she had earned as the extremely fine bedding she's been provided.
She hates feeling like she's a burden. She hates feeling weak. She hates feeling trapped. She hates feeling inadequate.
She has now proven herself strong enough to be the heir her Father wanted. One of Xiulan's goals has been to make her father happy, by being strong enough so that he wouldn't need to be frustrated at the lack of fighting Heir.
Now though, her Mother is upset that Xiulan's "giving up" or "setting aside" the feminine social graces she's never been the best in the family at.
So I think she'll have to figure out "how should Xiulan social in her own way, while still having her mother's approval" not "how do I behave like my mother"
Whatever happens, I think Xiulan is well suited to begin marrying her Social Arts to her Combat Arts. She doesn't want to choose to either fill the Heir slot for her father or make her mother happy/proud, she wants to be good enough for both. I believe Green is when you start to see the two sorts of Arts begin to blend with strength, and Xiulan's intensely focused build may assist her in merging the two sooner than a less focused build could strongly achieve.
This would also suit the simplifying of mechanics that are coming up for Mid Green, as this is when Domain can really start to mix Social and Combat stats around and fuel that social/combat build mixing. If your domain allows you to substitute a check involving a dumpstat with something you invest in, you might not need to wonder about every stat a midgreen+ has considering their Domain should start to compensate for such things as dumpstats.
Anyway. I love Xiulan. She has so many wonderful ways she could be Xiulan and I'm looking forward to reading about her choices! <3 LAN LAN <3
Xiulan is struggling here because she hasn't gotten everything she ever wanted. What she wants is the freedom to pursue her passions and one of those passions is deeper connections with those around her.
I think the observation that she was "gold digging" for "leader of the group Han Jian" is incorrect. Xiulan has never really had peer friends, because servants don't count and her sisters were all older and of a different disposition. Han Jian was not only a cute boy of peer age, but also he's laid back enough to go along with Xiulan's fiery energy wherever she would have wandered off to. Barring the political situation, they could be a good match. He consistently needs a "fire burning under him" to keep him motivated and moving properly, and Xiulan wants someone that will see her for who she is, accept her, and join her on her energetic escapades.
The issue with Han Jian being that his "ambitions" are mostly foisted upon him by lineage, and he hasn't made the decision to "choose to be chosen" as it were. Without his own personal ambition fueling him, his own personal drive fueling him, his talent and resources will only take him so far.
Xiulan isn't happy here because she assumed that getting the station and trappings of station would automatically mean that they would suit her. That she would be recognized for who she is rather than what she can do. The trappings of station are made for a male heir that hasn't arrived. The station itself is for a fighting man, echoing the male warlords of Golden Fields Lu before they exploded.
Thankfully, the other important part of this station is that it is for a passionate, talented and ambitious individual. She fits the bill in that regard, and will likely begin to feel better as she pushes to assert herself with more confidence.
She is very grateful for inheritance. She appreciates the finer things in life.
However.
She is very aware that to grow the Gu she will have to provide much more than she accepts in investment.
She would be more comfortable in gear she personally commissioned with personal winnings. She would be about as comfortable on a stone floor at the spot in the prestigious Sect she had earned as the extremely fine bedding she's been provided.
She hates feeling like she's a burden. She hates feeling weak. She hates feeling trapped. She hates feeling inadequate.
She has now proven herself strong enough to be the heir her Father wanted. One of Xiulan's goals has been to make her father happy, by being strong enough so that he wouldn't need to be frustrated at the lack of fighting Heir.
Now though, her Mother is upset that Xiulan's "giving up" or "setting aside" the feminine social graces she's never been the best in the family at.
So I think she'll have to figure out "how should Xiulan social in her own way, while still having her mother's approval" not "how do I behave like my mother"
Whatever happens, I think Xiulan is well suited to begin marrying her Social Arts to her Combat Arts. She doesn't want to choose to either fill the Heir slot for her father or make her mother happy/proud, she wants to be good enough for both. I believe Green is when you start to see the two sorts of Arts begin to blend with strength, and Xiulan's intensely focused build may assist her in merging the two sooner than a less focused build could strongly achieve.
This would also suit the simplifying of mechanics that are coming up for Mid Green, as this is when Domain can really start to mix Social and Combat stats around and fuel that social/combat build mixing. If your domain allows you to substitute a check involving a dumpstat with something you invest in, you might not need to wonder about every stat a midgreen+ has considering their Domain should start to compensate for such things as dumpstats.
Anyway. I love Xiulan. She has so many wonderful ways she could be Xiulan and I'm looking forward to reading about her choices! <3 LAN LAN <3
One day after we accrued enough favor with the duchess or alternatively her disciples maybe Lin Hai we will send her some of the magic threads. Automatic bond raise. 
Or she may take it as a courting gift and we may end up in another Meizhen situation. Lingqi can genuinely end up seducing all the girls around her becoming a harem protaganist.
Or she may take it as a courting gift and we may end up in another Meizhen situation. Lingqi can genuinely end up seducing all the girls around her becoming a harem protaganist.
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I think it's pretty heavily implied that we could buy someone out, and Ling Qi is aware of that. I don't really see why paying her debt immediately would necessarily be stupid. While it would be an investment, having another green around to start a new Barony seems prudent. At the very least it would be someone to leave at home to hold down the fort while Ling Qi is off rolling 100s for exploration somewhere. Frankly I think hand wringing about potential costs is kind of moot at this point. If she does get adopted, which it seems like she will be, we should treat her like the sister she is and do whatever is best for her, even if that means buying out her service.
[X] Yu Nuan is not as skilled as you but she is driven and trustworthy, you think. Tentative acceptance, assuming conditions allow
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Based on context that's unlikely. While yes, Yu Nuan is entitled to a barony due to the way the system works, if she gets picked up by someone, that person rather than the authority that entitled them is responsible for granting them lands. So under that, if Yu Nuan gets adopted into the Ling Clan, Ling Qi would be responsible for acquiring and ceding land to Yu Nuan, the same way Renxiang is responsible for acquiring and ceding lands to Ling Qi and Gan Guangli (and potentially Xia Lin and Meng Dan). Though given Yu Nuan's comments she's not super interested in actually managing lands, so when the negotiation for the adoption occurs, she's unlikely to demand Ling acquire a barony for her, and may instead push for teaching music in a school.
Incidentally due to the fact the fief is showing up super soon, if people want to maximize the utility of the fief, having part of the Ling Manor be a music school would actually be a really good idea since that would provide Qingge a way to interact more with the community of the fief as well as get reliable triggers for Songseeker Ceremony.
- Location
- Colorado
It's not stupid because paying off the student loans is expensive. It's stupid because the Sect is already funding her cultivation for several more years, why say no to that? At the very least we shouldn't decide to do that until after we've seen our land. If we really need the extra hands then sure, but I think it would be easier to support our own cultivation if we establish the barony ourselves at first. Mom's always worried about our spending habits, can we actually get some steady income sources set up before we insist on supporting another Green?
It doesn't work that way though - that promotion only applies to non-noble cultivators. And there are plenty of non-landowning cultivators. We have the court cultivators for instance, and more relevant to us, the various Sect-lifers.
If she's adopted into the Ling, she'll just be a member of a baronal clan, not a baroness.
I agree with the wait and see on voiding her military service. All I'm saying is that there are merits to paying her way and it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. I think I have a different view of the pros and cons of the sect, but most of that is based on assumptions and predictions, so who knows.
Wisdom aside, from a personal bias point of view, I wouldn't be comfortable with consigning say Biyu to being a soldier in the middle of a war if I could help it, so I'm personally against requiring it of Yu Nuan. It just seems weird to adopt a girl who clearly is not of the combat bent and then penny pinch with her. I don't like the idea of adding people to our family selfishly or transactionally, at least not completely.
Damn. They might love her, but I'm beginning to understand Xiulan's persistent frustration with her family. They really don't get her at all. Her conventionally male traits don't erase her conventionally female ones you dummies! She wants both.
I'm starting to think she was born in the wrong culture. This place's gender roles are just not for her.
That seems a little overly optimistic as to the number of potential musicians in a Barony. Given the nature of LQ's and Yu Nuan's cultivation and the limited population we have to work with, it makes more sense to provide people with fairly simple Music that they can use to help with the sorts of tasks we find need to be done.
Even having a school at all might not make much sense in the early days, with people instead relying upon apprenticeships to pass on the necessary skills. That said it probably does make sense for LQ to hire tutors for her own household to ensure that she has that knowledge readily available to her when needed.
True, but Ling Qi gets 100 free successes for teaching, performing, or composing music (or other artistic activities) and establishing a music school is a potential long term goal for the fief that Ling Qi substantially benefits from both in terms of cultivation and in potential revenue or prestige.
If nothing else it gives Ling Qi a means to train her fief's guards in the only skill of hers they can really benefit from, since all of the Ling Clan cultivators are going to be music based until Biyu actually starts cultivating and even then with teaching her dance pretty early on, it's going to be laying down a pretty artistic foundation for that girl too.
- Location
- Colorado
So for one, we aren't abandoning the war effort, if we drag her along with us she's not escaping combat, she's transferring to a different unit. Secondly Yu Nuan and Su Ling are both rather prideful people, even if we could exempt them from combat they might not want us to do that. And I'm a little annoyed to be characterized as penny pinching and transactional. I voted for adoption because I like Yu Nuan, and I'm arguing about this possible future decision because I think people are really jumping the gun wanting to throw all the money we haven't even gotten yet at this 'problem.' Is that penny pinching?
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- Location
- Washington
You know, while people are absolutely right that the sect is almost certainly not gonna particularly see buying out Yu Nuan's debt as "poaching" her, I think the same does NOT also apply to Su Ling. Su Ling isn't like, Li Suyin useful to the war effort but she does have divination that isn't fucked up by dealing with the underground, and they have been putting some investment into that.
- Pronouns
- They
Eh you're most likely right that Yu Nuan n whoever else we rope in will depend on clan Ling for resources. But yrs explicitly states that the diplomat route opens up otherwise unavailable insights and resources. We also have restricted access to anyone we don't rope in (and their skill sets / narrative contribution.
I also think you're overestimating the tuition. Ma fam and Li fam = commoner mortals. They're well off but they get paid in silver. Any tuition payable in silver (unless its an astronomical amount of silver) is prob a pittance compared to LQ's loot, which is worth a ridiculous amount of spirit stones. Like, centuries old object spirit geneology tapestry, super jackpot lotto. Considering great sects are publicly funded by the empress (FOD Smelting 1) and considering Duchess Cai's welfare programs and desire to snatch unaffiliated talents, tuition probably isn't astronomical. Maybe Argent is operating at a loss or maybe nobles just pay higher tuition thus subsidizing commoners, who knows.
Finally, buying out YN (and maybe SL)'s military contact may very well save their lives. Our scouting mission underground involved two 4th realms and elder jiaos escape talisman. We got wrecked. Our attack on the cloud conference involved three elders and sect head yuan. The pursuit team and elder Yongrui got wrecked. Though we are unaware of Renshu's betrayal we know that elder jiao was involved in the underground base op, and they also got wrecked. By "wrecked" i mean general mission success but heavy casualties, like red and yellow = dead and even elders taking serious injuries. Argent not doing so hot, but propoganda says we're winning every engagement. Whether for the pragmatism of growing a strong clan or the sentimentality of protecting friends (from death, underworld poisoning, star coma, or non-regrowable amputations) paying the draft debt instead waiting out 7 years of deployments is an investment in keeping YN n SL alive.
I mean.... it's somebody's life. Of course if she wants to serve in the sect military by all means. But surely you can see the difference between Sect military service and serving under Ling/Cai when they are assigned to a primarily diplomatic mission. In this very chapter the music group was talking about how the Sect was pushing them to the point of exhaustion. Yu Nuan lost her entire squad. If we're adopting her, we're taking responsibility for her and we should make the best decision for her, even if that is a financial burden. If we can't stomach that financial burden, we have no business adopting her. And again, I'm not saying that that's for sure how it should go, but it's not as absolute as:
I'm not trying to imply you are callous or something of that nature, apologies if it came off that way.
I don't have an opinion on tuition buyout yet - that depends on her opinion, the auction results, and future fief costs - and I think we're probably jumping the gun a little bit there. Let's walk through those steps first.
I will say, however, that I don't think we should view her as a sister at all. Even from an emotional point, Ling Qi is not ready to have a peer in a sibling role given the amount of trust and potential power over her that would entail. Maybe later (maybe), but there is a different between being in the same clan and being sisters. We're not adopting her into our family, especially since she's only bond 1 and is doing this as much out of self-interest as anything else. The closest analogue to how we should treat her is probably a combination of the Ma sisters and Li Suyin. She would technically be subordinate to us in this role, and we'd likely be responsible for some of her upkeep, but she'd also be doing her own thing within the confines of any strategic goal we'd give her.
I don't see this adoption as us becoming her guardian or anything of the sort, and we certainly don't have any obligation to buy her out. What I see this as is her essentially hitching her cart to our horse. While we should certainly take her opinions into account, she is ultimately responsible for her own decisions, and we shouldn't try anything like "making the decision for her because she doesn't know what's best for her" because she certainly does.
Being in a clan seems to mean support against external/large opponents such as other clans and resources, for the most part. I don't believe we're committing to anything more, nor do I believe we want to/should.
Essentially:
Hard disagree here. In order: the Sect isn't going to throw away greens (notice how they stopped before they were burnt out), you lose people in a war, it's condescending to assume responsibility for someone who currently is a peer, and we're making no such financial commitment to buying out her service - it's just an option.
I see where you're coming from here, but adoption into a clan is different that adoption by parents into a family, and Ling Qi would absolutely avoid the second one.
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Seems like that would be the most likely arrangement, based off of this:
The way I see it, if we want music to be a big part of our fief, it makes more sense to not make it be a profession. There wouldn't be "musicians" but rather everyone would know the hymns and folk songs. Sure they wouldn't spend as much time on the arts as a dedicated professional but said arts would be ubiquitous.
The question then is what benefit are they getting from that and how does this connect to us maintaining a relationship with our people? The natural answer is to have lots of holidays. We invite various powerful local spirits on days dedicated to them, providing a ready made opportunity for people to approach us or the guest of honor with their problems as well as to practice their skills. Certainly with Zhengui helping with agriculture there will be plenty of food to go around, providing a firm foundation for us to build a city and several Greens should do fine protecting it. If there's enough resources to go around then there's not much of a downside to this approach.
Frequent holidays also can serve as part of social safety net, as providing food to all who want it inevitably means that the poor should be getting what they need.
Its also pretty easy to forget it but Zhengui is already the subject of veneration and Hanyi is beginning to look for a sacred place as she finds the heat of normal life annoying. Add in a Museum (literally "the Muses' place") for Sixiang and there's some pretty strong religious themes for our clan. We'd probably want to make a shrine/temple to Zhengui in the fields, another in an isolated mountaintop (if possible) for Hanyi, one in the middle of the town for Sixiang, and then our own home on the edge of town. I'm not sure if veneration actually helps with spirit (beast) cultivation but it probably doesn't hurt.
The question then is what benefit are they getting from that and how does this connect to us maintaining a relationship with our people? The natural answer is to have lots of holidays. We invite various powerful local spirits on days dedicated to them, providing a ready made opportunity for people to approach us or the guest of honor with their problems as well as to practice their skills. Certainly with Zhengui helping with agriculture there will be plenty of food to go around, providing a firm foundation for us to build a city and several Greens should do fine protecting it. If there's enough resources to go around then there's not much of a downside to this approach.
Frequent holidays also can serve as part of social safety net, as providing food to all who want it inevitably means that the poor should be getting what they need.
Its also pretty easy to forget it but Zhengui is already the subject of veneration and Hanyi is beginning to look for a sacred place as she finds the heat of normal life annoying. Add in a Museum (literally "the Muses' place") for Sixiang and there's some pretty strong religious themes for our clan. We'd probably want to make a shrine/temple to Zhengui in the fields, another in an isolated mountaintop (if possible) for Hanyi, one in the middle of the town for Sixiang, and then our own home on the edge of town. I'm not sure if veneration actually helps with spirit (beast) cultivation but it probably doesn't hurt.
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Note that until Yellow esoteric attack forms are pretty dang rare. Music is just music for most people.
False equivalence. She was deployed to the best of their ability, they are just out intrigued by the opposition. That does not change under us - unless we expressedly put her in a soft posting out of favoritism, which would piss her off.
Completely unsubstantiated and also not my point.
- Location
- Colorado
Yrsillar specifically said the diplomat route was still going to see us fighting in the war, supposedly neither option is a 'soft' option. Basically war operations would have been our 'normal' whether we stayed with the sect or not, but going the diplomat route means that instead of tournament stuff interrupting that, diplomatic meetings will interrupt that. If Yu Nuan leaves the sect early she's not going to be some diplomatic adjutant, she'll be fighting barbarians alongside us with the Cai on combat missions and staying home to guard the fief against spirits and barbarian raids while we go off to negotiate with ice people.
And considering everything we know about Xia Ren and Cai Shenhua I really doubt they're going to be less demanding than the Sect about combat missions. We did not choose the easy path.
Adopting Yu Nuan does not mean she will leave the sect this instant, that will probably be a future vote.
My dream scenario for this entire adoption thing is this :
- Yu Nuan is adopted in the Ling clan and leaves the sect soonish to help us in finding a location to start our fief.
- Su Ling is adopted in the Ling clan and stays with the sect for the forseable future as our representative and a potent war asset
- One or both of the Ma sisters sign up to become the bedrock of our future military unit (one can be a bodyguard while the other leads the houshold troops).
I'm not worried about our reputation with the sect or any possible accusations of "poaching".
The inner sect has made an absolutely terrible job at presenting LQ with great opportunities, the lessons we got to see in text were either horrible (Elder Hua Heng's spiel in the second chapter is some HP Snape levels of contempt for teaching) or did nothing (the scout training's only impact is that now LQ speaks some cloud nomad tongues) and all the skills raised to B rank were done in isolation without help from tutors.
When you compare that too the lessons with elder Zhou LQ still mentions in recent chapters or the elder tutoring we earned in Forge, the narrative presence of teachers in the inner sect is so lackluster i'm not surprised the route was ditched at the first opportunity.
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- Location
- Australia
I can't see the Ma sisters sticking around with us, I'm pretty sure one of them was crushing on a minor lord that was working under GG.
- Location
- South Africa
I think that now is probably a good time to start discussing what we would like our future Fief to be. There have been discussions of having a musical focus, which sounds good, but I don't think it is sufficient. In terms of the advantageous we have, our Fief will probably form a key stopover in a new trade route. This trade route will almost certainly be small compared to the well established inter-province and inter-empire trade routes, but it will be the only trade route of its kind.
Yu Nuan indicated that our fief will likely be unsuited to Agriculture, although Zhengui might remedy that, but that it would work for herding.
In developing our fief, we will not want for space and we already have Zhengui who can help sustain an otherwise unstable ecosystem. I suggest that we develop a Spirit beast ranch or something similar and then export either the beasts themselves or the produce.
We already are doing this with Zhengui and Hanyi and I think this sort of business will work with the upcoming trade route. The trade route, for both sides, will consist of trading common resources for uncommon resources. We will need common resources to set up our fief and I believe that with the Imperial method and our own specialization with spirits as well as being in new lands, we can provide uncommon resources to both sides of the trade route, with out significantly changing their exports.
Yu Nuan indicated that our fief will likely be unsuited to Agriculture, although Zhengui might remedy that, but that it would work for herding.
In developing our fief, we will not want for space and we already have Zhengui who can help sustain an otherwise unstable ecosystem. I suggest that we develop a Spirit beast ranch or something similar and then export either the beasts themselves or the produce.
We already are doing this with Zhengui and Hanyi and I think this sort of business will work with the upcoming trade route. The trade route, for both sides, will consist of trading common resources for uncommon resources. We will need common resources to set up our fief and I believe that with the Imperial method and our own specialization with spirits as well as being in new lands, we can provide uncommon resources to both sides of the trade route, with out significantly changing their exports.
Li Suyin's family is very very rich by mortal standards. Her father has a position about has high up as mortals can go, this is how he was able to afford 1 full tution after taking a loan.
The Ma sisters are from a family of 'common cultivators', as in reds or yellows. Iirc her father was an artisan and the brother was a soldier. That should also be more on the well-to-do side for mortals... And iirc they still have to do military service, so their family was not able to pay the full tution
So while it might be something we can afford after the auction, i feel like you underestimate how expensive the tution is a bit