Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think GG is the way to go. I believe he is the one most likely to reject the perfection of the dream once we contest it. I feel that CRX has that drive and certainty that will make it very difficult to get her to step off the path if she has bought into it.
 
So whoever we peak into will give us understanding of them and possibly build their relations to us. Hmm are choice could possibly lead to advance insight since this seems to be a tribulation.

Cai seems the best but Leming and her might be able to break out on her own.

Gan second best and we could probably crack his shell, get him by appeal to loyalty.

Xia is probally only other choice since she seems more likely to stick around after this and if she joins Cai inner circle then shes competing with Gan.
 
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I'm not sure if Cai is the right choice here. She's still only just getting to accepting that she can have wants and desires separate from the purpose her Mother made for her, and getting her to break from them could put her more firmly into a 'I must do as Mom wants' kind of mindset. I'm think Gan, as his wants are very strongly aligned with actual change, not just pretend dreams.
It seems more likely that her dreamworld is one in which she's achieved her "purpose" as decided by her mother, but perhaps lacking in what her newly reemerging personal desires are. I'd expect it to be themed around moving away from the inhuman perfection her mother requires of her, and toward a more understanding, more flexible existence. Growing and improving yourself is hard, and slipping back into old habits is easy and comfortable.
 
Yeah, ultimately while we've theoretically "known" Gan for quite a while, our interactions with him have been limited and LQ has always had difficulty understanding him.

And, well, yeah, this:
LQ knows barely anything about what makes GG tick, what he really wants, and why he wants it. With CRX she knows the shape of what she was made for, and knows what the imperfect human underneath is struggling with. And that's even before the whole recruitment thing with multiple instances of CRX and LQ talking about their motivation and vision.
Not only is Renxiang the one we're closest to (thus fitting our Domain), and know the best (thus giving us the best odds), her arc is well set up to build towards this.

I'd like to do all of them for the character development, but in lieu of that... :p
 
I think GG is the way to go. I believe he is the one most likely to reject the perfection of the dream once we contest it. I feel that CRX has that drive and certainty that will make it very difficult to get her to step off the path if she has bought into it.

The thing is we have in fact done this before. We were the ones to stop her from unhealthily brooding after liming took control of her and helped her deal with the fact that she cant be Shenhua. We have done this before, if on a smaller scale.

Meanwhile with GG we barely know him. Im sure he is capable and all, but like its CRX the spirit of desire called out as being the most resistant to her influence.
 
I think its important to note that when we broke out of this effect, it was by recognizing that other people's desires matter. Even if we get everything we want that's meaningless if it tramples the wishes of our friends.

So the question is "who can we get to reject everything they want and how can we do it?" As I see it:

CRX: She doesn't actually know what she wants. She simultaneously longs for companionship, her mother's approval, and a perfect world. Given these contradictions I don't see how any situation would make her truly happy.
GG: He reached for what he wanted and he failed. Can we convince him that it is the striving that gives things meaning and not actually the accomplishment?
XL: She goes "Forward, forward evermore, bound by thy honor alone, strive for the gleaming dawn." To be caught in the fulfillment of her wishes is opposed directly to that.
MD: When faced with the horrors of the world, he laughs rather than avert his gaze. Can fantasy truly satisfy him?

I am dubious of Meng Dan's chances. Xia Lin seems the most likely to resist this sort of thing. Gan Guangli is the most likely to be strengthened by this (though he may have already learned this lesson). CRX is the most narratively interesting but is likely going to also be the most complicated.
 
This turned out pretty much as I expected. At least Smothering White didn't just pick the most vulnerable as her toll and abscond with them. She got greedy and overconfident in her eagerness to End as many of them as she can get away with. Ling Qi has managed to wrangle a choice from her, and Liming is pretty much an ace, but it would be highly traumatic to CRX if Liming were forced to turn her into a puppet again. Hopefully if we choose CRX, she'll be able to draw on Liming in the Dream without losing control.

I'm kind of curious how Meng Dan as a fellow follower of the Hidden Moon would do were he chosen. He's highly perceptive and is probably the most likely to see through the dream and recognize it for the deadly trap that it is with a little nudge.
 
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This is partly why I dislike picking the Zeqing-like spirit.

We already know Hanyi is different from Zequing despite her efforts otherwise, but I expected Hanyi meeting the other spirits to give her inspiration on how to structure her growth.

Now all Hanyi sees is things similar to what Zeqing did, and I just don't like that curbing of Hanyi's difference with Zeqing.
 
It seems more likely that her dreamworld is one in which she's achieved her "purpose" as decided by her mother, but perhaps lacking in what her newly reemerging personal desires are. I'd expect it to be themed around moving away from the inhuman perfection her mother requires of her, and toward a more understanding, more flexible existence. Growing and improving yourself is hard, and slipping back into old habits is easy and comfortable.
I'd expect it to be one in which she's achieved her purpose, and is now dedicated wholly to maintaining the society she's created and lacks any desires besides that - and, for that matter, may not want any desires besides that. This is why I am very nervous about so many people wanting to vote CRX, because I don't think her personal desires are developed enough for Ling Qi to use them.

Ling Qi broke out of her dream by turning her desires against one another - her desire to hold her friends close vs. her desire to support them in their own goals. I'm not sure that's even possible with CRX, since all her desires (that she cares about) point in the same direction.
 
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I really want to vote for CRX for the story and hopefully growing her ability to think for herself (outside of her mothers perfection), but in terms of optimal success surely MD has the best chance of breaking free?
 
MD and XL do seem to have best chance of escaping, but both Gan and Cai are more intresting(dreams we likely see and play part in for this part of the arc) and play more into story.
 
[X] Gan Guangli


Gan is the one I most absolutely trust to be able to be beckoned out of his 'perfect' world.
 
I really want to vote for CRX for the story and hopefully growing her ability to think for herself (outside of her mothers perfection), but in terms of optimal success surely MD has the best chance of breaking free?

I strongly doubt this. We just dont know him well enough. We get along with him, but we just genuinely dont know enough about his desires to really be able to tell. And this will be a large part of the difficulty.
 
Ling Qi broke out of her dream by turning her desires against one another - her desire to hold her friends close vs. her desire to support them in their own goals. I'm not sure that's even possible with CRX, since all her desires (that she cares about) point in the same direction.

What possible scenario could this spirit create that would make CRX satisfied with her relationship with Shenhua, especially while creating her own perfect world?

There are layers upon layers of misery in that relationship, I don't see how a spirit this distant from humanity could unravel them all.
 
If CRX isn't deliberately intended as a trap option of that second sort, then I'll eat my hat. If no one lays out all the myriad ways that it's the most unwise choice, I'll make a crack at it later, but I think everyone should at least have the basic intuition that it's a dangerous choice. Can we at least agree on that much?
Honestly? No. I genuinely believe that CRX is the best option here, to the point that I'd agree with those who suggest this shouldn't even be a vote. She seems like the obvious pick because she quite frankly is the obvious pick.

We've had a lot more heart to heart bonding with her (basically none with the others barring some quick spurts over this expedtion), and there's even something of a call back to when CRX promised to bring us back onto the straight and narrow if we ever faltered.

Of the others we've known GG the second longest, but we In Character we don't really know anything about him beyond the superficial, and the other two aren't much better if at all.
 
[X]-- Gan Guangli


Gan is the one I most absolutely trust to be able to be beckoned out of his 'perfect' world.

Eh, I don't buy into this, sorry. Gan is still stuck in the Outer Sect because he prioritized his Dream of building the perfect military unit over his Duty to advance into the Inner Sect with CRX. As a result I don't have a lot of confidence that Gan will be so easily beckoned out of his perfect Dream world.
 
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What possible scenario could this spirit create that would make CRX satisfied with her relationship with Shenhua, especially while creating her own perfect world?

There are layers upon layers of misery in that relationship, I don't see how a spirit this distant from humanity could unravel them all.
In CRX's mind, all of that misery stems from her inability to live up to Shenhua's perfection. If she does live up to perfection and fulfills her purpose, then she gets her mother's approval and all the relationship problems go away (at least in her head, which is the situation we're dealing with here).

CRX's desires may be impossible to fulfill in real life, but they do not conflict. Unlike Ling Qi or any of the others here, it's possible for this spirit to construct a fantastic scenario where CRX genuinely does have everything she wants. She can have a society where no one wants and her mother's love and tea time with her friends, and none of those makes the others inherently impossible.
 
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Gan dream likely gonna be him as general or something relaxing over drilling his men, probably even fulfilling some big mission from his mistress, atleast if that what we know of him to be true and nothing changed much for his dream or he hid other personal problems away.

Cai dream literally be about her maintaining a system of perfection she brought in and affection awarded to her by her mother, but she knows somewhere deep down the hollowness of both and her own spark for different desires.
 
In CRX's mind, all of that misery stems from her inability to live up to Shenhua's perfection. If she does live up to perfection and fulfills her purpose, then she gets her mother's approval and all the relationship problems go away (at least in her head, which is the situation we're dealing with here).

CRX's desires may be impossible to fulfill in real life, but they do not conflict.

I mean the thing is, CRX is also very good at acknowedging what it true and false. She cannot truly accept a false reality. Sometimes she needs a kick in the pants when she is in a poor state, but thats what we are here for. We understand and are there for her.

In contrast, Ling Qi has a surface level understanding of everyone else. We barely talked with GG all year last year, and like while we get along, we dont know each other all that well. We are going to have to contest the power of Cyan spirit wielding desire with a lot of power. The key to that will be understanding and empathy.
 
The thing about CRX is that after what her mother, a White, did to her mind, what's a Cyan's dream temptations in comparison? I do agree that CRX is the obvious choice. At least if we pick CRX and she fails, we won't feel quite so bad if Liming has to turn her into a puppet to save the day, although I doubt she'd fail. If we pick someone else who we don't know well and they end up failing, forcing Liming to possess her to pull us through then I hope Ling Qi feels terrible for making the series of bad decisions that lead to CRX geting psychologically and spiritually wrecked.
 
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Hahaha, I am spitballing here but this is how I would play CRX's lotus machine.

1) Ling Qi enters the dream. The world is different and CRX is different - but not to the extent that it resembles a utopia. CRX is playing with her baby sister and Ling Qi realizes that the baby sister that CRX imagines looks strangely like her own which is, well, hm, weird.

Ling Qi tries to convince dream CRX to leave but she can't get a handle on this new CRX - her ideal self is too weirdly dissimilar from the real CRX for her to manipulate and she reacts badly to being told to 'wake up.'

2) Something happens and inception style she goes in deeper. We see various CRX milestones, but there's something weird about them: CRX is failing. She can't do X right, can't do Y right - like maybe she loses her first match in the tournament because she is up against Gan Guangli who somehow (?!) beats her. Maybe we see a breakthrough attempt to green and it goes awry. Her first attempt to fend off Sun Liling fails.

3) But she is good at other things. She doesn't alienate Ji Rong. She is clear from the get go that she isn't interested in Turtlebro. She is about to bare her soul to Ling Qi in order to secure her loyalty and the world ERROR MESSAGE resets.

5) And Ling Qi starts to get suspicious and goes in deeper, and the farther back she goes, the farther back Ling Qi goes until she is a gutter rat, weak and powerless, climbing up the steps of Ximeng (or wtv the holy tree is called)

6) And we finally see that point of divergence. The secret longing that exists in the heart of CRX that could not be hollowed out.

CRX's five years old and meeting her mom for the first time and instead of her mom being a complete and utter sociopath she just... gives her a hug, picks her up and begins touring the Great Tree with her.

And there is CRX, watching her baby self, smiling sadly and wistfully. Wishing she could be human. Wishing she could be allowed to fail. Wishing that she could be a big sister like Ling Qi and a person like Gan Guangli who isn't the strongest, but is the steadiest and friendliest.

There she is, her ideal self, a collage of the people closest to her. And she tells Ling Qi: please, just let me stay a little longer, if I stay a little longer, maybe I can - maybe I can be this CRX when I get out, I will remember this feeling of being - being whole. I NEED to remember this feeling so I can be a big sister, so I can be a ruler, so I can be a mother that isn't Mother and Mother's dress will pull me out anyway, so -

And Ling Qi gently says: "You are still you, CRX."

And CRX argues, pedantically at first and then with increasing vigor and emotion. And each time Ling Qi says: "You are still you, CRX."

And Ling Qi remembers where she began. And says, and it is a Truth of sorts:

"It's not the first step on the Road that matters - but every step you have taken since."

Finally, the dream shatters.

-----

Well, probably not, that sort of thing feels like it should be saved for much later along the character development route, but I like my dramatics. It's a very fanficcy idea, but not so much that it is outside the bounds of reason. :V
 
Eh, I don't buy into this, sorry. Gan is still stuck in the Outer Sect because he prioritized his Dream of building the perfect military unit over his Duty to advance into the Inner Sect with CRX. As a result I don't have a lot of confidence that Gan will be so easily beckoned out of his perfect Dream world.
...you don't think the last year getting crapped on might have changed his outlook on that? Like he told Ling Qi it did when they spoke?
 
Eh, I don't buy into this, sorry. Gan is still stuck in the Outer Sect because he prioritized his Dream of building the perfect military unit over his Duty to advance into the Inner Sect with CRX. As a result I don't have a lot of confidence that Gan will be so easily beckoned out of his perfect Dream world.

The reason to pick Gan is faith that he has learned from that experience and will not fall for it twice. Once bitten twice shy.

In CRX's mind, all of that misery stems from her inability to live up to Shenhua's perfection. If she does live up to perfection and fulfills her purpose, then she gets her mother's approval and all the relationship problems go away (at least in her head, which is the situation we're dealing with here).

CRX's desires may be impossible to fulfill in real life, but they do not conflict. Unlike Ling Qi or any of the others here, it's possible for this spirit to construct a fantastic scenario where CRX genuinely does have everything she wants.

No, that was the case but is no longer. She has repeatedly had it beaten into her that this is incorrect and that Shenhua herself is fundamentally an obstacle to CRX's ideal society. She also both wants Shenhua's approval and almost flinches when Shenhua touches her.

She keeps her sanity intact by compartmentalizing everything but that's not possible when some spirit is trying to bring it all into reality in front of you. Then just add a liberal helping of self-loathing insisting that she doesn't deserve to be happy and I'm halfway convinced that this spirit is accidentally torturing her.
 
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