- Location
- Greece
Of particularly cruel laws, yes.
Mind you, that is shonen. Xianxia tends to have only 2 kinds of villain: the young master, and the young master's family member.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Of particularly cruel laws, yes.
Mind you, that is shonen. Xianxia tends to have only 2 kinds of villain: the young master, and the young master's family member.
I'm pretty sure he's refferring to the Legalist Philosophy born of China's first real disintegration, which resulted in the Qin... a 15 year long dynasty, the first domino of their fall was when some rain lead to a peasent work group being doomed to tardiness, legend has it their head turned to the guy next to him and asked "what's the penalty for rebellion again?"
"Death"
"And the penalty for tardiness?"
"Death"
"Welp, guess we might as well rebel, least we have a ghost of a chance that way."
That rebellion failed miserably but then a bunch more happened and eventually you got the first Han Dynasty who went a lot looser on the whole "You get the Death Penalty, and you get the Death Penalty, and YOU get the Death Penalty, literally everything gets the Death Penalty", they preferred using Confucianism to get people to work with them, went better.
- Location
- Greece
Huh, I have heard this anecdote tons of times, but never realised it was the result of a philosophical movement.
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CRX would never hide behind her mother's authority to avoid the consequences of her actions. I'm also pretty sure any Bai that tried to hide behind their family name would be laughed out of the clan.
Also there's a big difference between being shown women at the highest levels of power and showing that women exist in positions of power throughout the social hierarchy. To draw an analogy, Shenhua is an out and proud lesbian but the Empire is hardly welcoming of homosexuality.
Wellll young Bai do invoke 'My Momma is better than yours', but generally as a facet of internal clan conflict. That's one reason Meizhen had such trouble growing up, she had no parental authority to fall back on when the other snek-lings were being shitty. Normally the grown up white snakes keep a leash on their kids to avoid any serious enmity with each other unless theres a feud there.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
The Legalist philosophy was basically "Humans are by nature evil. They only understand force. To maintain order, they must fear punishment." And what punishment could be more feared than death? Like, this was so early in the days of philosophy that they hadn't figured out about proportional punishment yet. Draco was doing something similar over in Greece at about the same time, hence "draconian".
- Location
- Greece
Eh, true, but it is different here because we have been told that there is, at worst, some clan based prejiduce about type of cultivation/roles, and we have been shown nothing that contradicts that (considering multiple Bais, the Empress, Shenhua, Shenhuas lover and Shenhua's general are all high ranking women and nobody comments on it or cares). Moreover and more importantly, it is shown that female and male cultivators are treated pretty much the same respectwise, again, with the exception of some clans opinion on roles.
By contrast, we have been told and shown that the Empire has prejiduce against LGBT, and it was quite clear that high ranking people who buck that rule only do so because due to the nature of the setting power is king (Shenhua and her lover, also the fashion king cuz T seems to fare about as well as LGB in the Empire) not because the society is accepting. Even high ranking people face reputational hurt and/or prefer being in places like the Sect when they face less scrutiny, and lower ranking people have to hide it or get severely punished, so the prejudice is quite clear here.
I know about Draco, thanks. He is a subject in Greek history books, and I am Greek, so I know quite well how that went.
Draco's extreme measures worked better (by comparison) and were slightly more reasonable than legalism tho.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Yeah. The important bit was that it was happening at about the same time. But I sure we have people in the thread who don't know that Draconian is a reference to a specific person.
- Location
- Greece
True, fair enouggh.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Isn't the clan with the monkey ancestor explicitly matriarchal?
- Location
- Greece
First of all, if I remember correctly, it is matrilineal, not matriarchal. There is quite a difference here: women are not considered superior, its just that rights and heritages are passed down based on who is the mother rather than the father.
Secondly, yeah, this and Xiulan's clans are the reason I noted that there were clan based prejiduces about type of cultivation and roles. It means that some clans have customs based on prejiduce, it is just not an empire wide thing, just a "a specific culture within the empire" thing.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
That's definitely quite a difference, yeah. Though still likely to have people from that clan referencing their mother's political station when trying to show someone up, unless their father is really impressive.
- Location
- Colorado
A lot of them probably wouldn't know their father. I recall something from way back in Forge when CRX was talking about exceptions to 'normal' imperial law/tradition that went like: 'And the Zheng, whose male scions sow bastards as a farmer sows wheat.'
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Well they are also matriarchal. They got a ruling council made out of "grannies" as we heard from the Zhang scion that Lanlan met up with in the journey east and pheonix home interludes. The one sitting on the ducal seat aint really the one that rules the Zhang afterall.
Journey to the East: Part 2
Journey to the East: Phoenix Home
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The Bai are effectively multiple clans and Xiao Fen is not a member of the actual ducal clan, the whites. We don't really have details on how the Bai actually function, but it would be easy to assume the other branches are either counts or viscounts. All in all, Hou Jin probably has a higher social standing in the Empire than Xiao Fen, especially because the latter is obviously spirit-blooded.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Sure, Hou Jin likely has a higher social standing than Xiao Fen, but with handmaidens the social standing of who serve is what matters, and Bai Meizhen is one of the most important people of her generation to the Bai clan.
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CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The ties and recounts feel super appropriate right now lol
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
The Bai are multiple clans in some ways, but just saying 'x are viscounts' isn't a very accurate way to look at it either.
Turn 11: Arc 2-Clockwork Blades
This exhaustion had become unfamiliar, Cai Renxiang thought.
It was not a thing of the body, borne of a pounding heart and bruised flesh.
The blade resting less than a hair's breadth from her throat withdrew with a soft hiss, it's gleaming blade shimmering blue as it's impossibly sharp edge severed the air.
No, the immaculate weapon that was the Heron General Xia Ren would never need be so crude as to inflict the slightest harm on a student's body.
Cai Renxiang had felt what it was to die three hundred twenty seven times in the last hour. Although the general had limited herself to mere third realm abilities, the difference in skill was too great. Cifeng whispered frustration, her edge yearned to repay humiliation in blood. It was a titanic effort to merely maintain grasp of her hilt.
"Length of time until defeat has improved by two and thirty eight hundreths of a second since we have begun," the general said crisply. Her shining blade vanished into its scabbard with a soft hiss. Unlike Cifeng, it was silent. "A great improvement for a recruit. An acceptable improvement for a scion of Cai."
They stood in the center of General Xia's sparring chamber. Walls of pristine white cloth, unadorned by any decor surrounded them. The mirror shine of the metal beneath their feet reflected them both. Perfectly flat in angle, perfectly round in shape, bereft of the slightest flaw or scuff. Cai Renxiang lowered her saber, and bowed to her instructor. "I am pleased to have improved under your instruction, General Xia."
It was normal, in etiquette to imply that praise was excessive. This was not the case for the General. Only a mad fool would imply Xia Ren was in any way imprecise. Like her Mother, the woman before her was more ideal than flesh. Some wondered why the woman had not claimed or been given the title of sword saint. Cai Renxiang knew that it was because her Mother did not require a mere sword.
Swords did not win wars.
"You have altered the Duchess' forms beyond the adjustments created for your height and frame," the general spoke plainly, without embellishment or accusation. The demand for explanation remained plain.
Cai Renxiang met the thing of fire, steel and numbers that lurked behind the eyes of the armored woman before her despite the black spots in the corners of her vision. "Adjustments to style are necessary for growth."
"You believe your judgement is superior in this matter?" Xia Ren asked.
"My Mother does not waste her effort on managing things beneath her notice, if her chosen subordinates have not failed her," Cai Renxiang replied.
She felt no fear under the general's examination. She had found her certainty. Cai Renxiang was not Cai Shenhua. She wielded the cutting words of Cifeng, not the pitiless Truth that was her mother's saber, Zhenxiang. She could not achieve that perfection. She had not been made for it.
It had hurt her, in a way that she did not think that she could still be damaged to admit that.
However, there was no benefit in maintaining self delusion. Cai Shenhua was the sundering of the past and a new beginning. Cai Renxiang was the ticking hands of progress, taken one step at a time.
"Your efforts remain acceptable," Xia Ren replied inscrutably. "Your continuing collusion and collection of outdated elements is of concern. To preserve the past is stagnation. Stagnation is death."
"The Cai rule the province of the Emerald Seas," Cai Renxiang said. "All of Emerald Seas. In order for all to reach the future, I must understand where they are beginning."
It was true that the ways of the past would change. This was inevitable, but the seeds had been sowed. They would change, one cut and tick of the clock at a time.
"The rot of ages breaks easily with a well aimed blow," Xia Ren said. "But, I have tasted your resolve. You still walk the forward path. Your methods are not yet unacceptable."
Cai Renxiang bowed her head in acknowledgement. Those words were not idle, coming from a woman who was amongst the highest in her Mother's council.
General Xia turned toward the side of the sparring chamber, and its walls shimmered, the privacy formations fading. "Sergeant Lin, escort the Young Mistress to her tent. She requires spiritual recovery."
The cloth wall of the chamber rustled, and the younger Xia entered, her hands clasped and her head bowed. "Yes General!"
Cai Renxiang took a deep breath, and allowed Cifeng's sheath to be respun. The General was not wrong, she could recognize the fatigue clouding her mind. Naturally the spar had stopped before it could become damaging exhaustion.
Her boots clicked faintly on the mirrored floor as she marched out, following Xia Lin.
The General remained, still and silent, as an array of lights mapping the region bloomed on the wall before her.
"Is there anything you might require, Lady Cai?" Xia Lin asked crisply as the tent flap fell shut behind them.
"Just rest, as the general said," Cai Renxiang replied. Around her was the White Plume camp, where her Mother's finest soldiers were drilling and performing their camp duties.
Each piece in its place. She watched the men and women performing their duties with confidence and pride, recognizable to her even through her Mother's artifice. It was the pride of those who were working for something more inclusive than the self or the family. This, Cai Renxiang thought, was a small part of what might be, if she continued her Mother's work.
At least on the surface.
"Lady Cai?" Xin Lin asked.
She blinked, realizing that she had stopped to observe. It seemed she required rest more urgently than expected. "Just passing thoughts," she dismissed, resuming her walk.
"I am at my Lady's disposal," Xia Lin replied, resuming as she did.
Cai Renxiang considered Xia Lin. Scion of the generals clan, among the youngest of the White Plume's proper. It was difficult to judge her. That in itself was troubling.
Her martial skill and behavior were exemplary in almost all aspect. She stood as an example of what could be accomplished by the training of the White Plume. Yet Cai Renxiang found herself troubled in her judgement.
"I have not asked before," Cai Renxiang said conversationally. "What are your thoughts on our mission?"
"I am certain that Lady Cai will live up to expectations," Xia Lin replied.
Despite herself, Cai Renxiang frowned. It was an honest answer, she was not being placated, and yet, it rang hollow. Perhaps she had spent too long in the company of her other retainers. "I would prefer your opinion on the mission itself and its efficacy."
Xia Lin paused briefly. "Multi-front conflicts are suboptimal in almost all cases. I…"
She trailed off, and Cai Renxiang watched her out of the corner of her eye. There it was, the reticence that hid beneath discipline. A flaw in the steel.
"I believe that achieving a ceasefire with the barbarians is a reasonable choice of action, but the pretext does seem thin," Xia Lin finished.
She sounded uncertain. Cai Renxiang understood.
Xia Ren had said it herself, a strong blow could shatter tradition well enough. In forging the Xia from the ruin of the Sadala, the General had struck many strong blows. Cai Renxiang thought of the General, and the girl before her. The engine of war and the rootless soldier, hiding within her armor. How many of the other White Plume's were such beneath their helms?
Could plans which produced such things be perfect?
Cai Renxiang dismissed that traitorous and errant thought. Even perfection had to contend with reality and flawed tools. That was the nature of the impure world.
"I do not believe it is as thin as you believe, such arguments may be more convincing than any recounting of facts," Cai Renxiang said quietly. The spots in her vision were getting worse. "Let us say that you are correct however. The logical reasons remain. Peace is more beneficial than war when interests are not in conflict. Exchange of goods produces more value than theft. Is it wrong then to craft a story which presents a foundation on which to build those things?"
"I suppose not," Xia Lin said. "I will bow to your greater expertise."
Cai Renxiang closed her eyes for a moment as they arrived at her tent. She wished that Xia Lin would disagree. Xia Lin reminded her far too much of herself, a doll who once arrogantly believed that she could clearly see her own strings.
"You are dismissed to your other duties," Cai Renxiang said cooly, not allowing her thoughts to show.
"As you say, Lady Cai," Xia Lin said, a faint crease in her brow. She had likely noticed Cai Renxiang's dissatisfaction. Another sign that she needed her rest.
Tomorrow they would depart the main force. She would need to be at her peak.
It was not a thing of the body, borne of a pounding heart and bruised flesh.
The blade resting less than a hair's breadth from her throat withdrew with a soft hiss, it's gleaming blade shimmering blue as it's impossibly sharp edge severed the air.
No, the immaculate weapon that was the Heron General Xia Ren would never need be so crude as to inflict the slightest harm on a student's body.
Cai Renxiang had felt what it was to die three hundred twenty seven times in the last hour. Although the general had limited herself to mere third realm abilities, the difference in skill was too great. Cifeng whispered frustration, her edge yearned to repay humiliation in blood. It was a titanic effort to merely maintain grasp of her hilt.
"Length of time until defeat has improved by two and thirty eight hundreths of a second since we have begun," the general said crisply. Her shining blade vanished into its scabbard with a soft hiss. Unlike Cifeng, it was silent. "A great improvement for a recruit. An acceptable improvement for a scion of Cai."
They stood in the center of General Xia's sparring chamber. Walls of pristine white cloth, unadorned by any decor surrounded them. The mirror shine of the metal beneath their feet reflected them both. Perfectly flat in angle, perfectly round in shape, bereft of the slightest flaw or scuff. Cai Renxiang lowered her saber, and bowed to her instructor. "I am pleased to have improved under your instruction, General Xia."
It was normal, in etiquette to imply that praise was excessive. This was not the case for the General. Only a mad fool would imply Xia Ren was in any way imprecise. Like her Mother, the woman before her was more ideal than flesh. Some wondered why the woman had not claimed or been given the title of sword saint. Cai Renxiang knew that it was because her Mother did not require a mere sword.
Swords did not win wars.
"You have altered the Duchess' forms beyond the adjustments created for your height and frame," the general spoke plainly, without embellishment or accusation. The demand for explanation remained plain.
Cai Renxiang met the thing of fire, steel and numbers that lurked behind the eyes of the armored woman before her despite the black spots in the corners of her vision. "Adjustments to style are necessary for growth."
"You believe your judgement is superior in this matter?" Xia Ren asked.
"My Mother does not waste her effort on managing things beneath her notice, if her chosen subordinates have not failed her," Cai Renxiang replied.
She felt no fear under the general's examination. She had found her certainty. Cai Renxiang was not Cai Shenhua. She wielded the cutting words of Cifeng, not the pitiless Truth that was her mother's saber, Zhenxiang. She could not achieve that perfection. She had not been made for it.
It had hurt her, in a way that she did not think that she could still be damaged to admit that.
However, there was no benefit in maintaining self delusion. Cai Shenhua was the sundering of the past and a new beginning. Cai Renxiang was the ticking hands of progress, taken one step at a time.
"Your efforts remain acceptable," Xia Ren replied inscrutably. "Your continuing collusion and collection of outdated elements is of concern. To preserve the past is stagnation. Stagnation is death."
"The Cai rule the province of the Emerald Seas," Cai Renxiang said. "All of Emerald Seas. In order for all to reach the future, I must understand where they are beginning."
It was true that the ways of the past would change. This was inevitable, but the seeds had been sowed. They would change, one cut and tick of the clock at a time.
"The rot of ages breaks easily with a well aimed blow," Xia Ren said. "But, I have tasted your resolve. You still walk the forward path. Your methods are not yet unacceptable."
Cai Renxiang bowed her head in acknowledgement. Those words were not idle, coming from a woman who was amongst the highest in her Mother's council.
General Xia turned toward the side of the sparring chamber, and its walls shimmered, the privacy formations fading. "Sergeant Lin, escort the Young Mistress to her tent. She requires spiritual recovery."
The cloth wall of the chamber rustled, and the younger Xia entered, her hands clasped and her head bowed. "Yes General!"
Cai Renxiang took a deep breath, and allowed Cifeng's sheath to be respun. The General was not wrong, she could recognize the fatigue clouding her mind. Naturally the spar had stopped before it could become damaging exhaustion.
Her boots clicked faintly on the mirrored floor as she marched out, following Xia Lin.
The General remained, still and silent, as an array of lights mapping the region bloomed on the wall before her.
"Is there anything you might require, Lady Cai?" Xia Lin asked crisply as the tent flap fell shut behind them.
"Just rest, as the general said," Cai Renxiang replied. Around her was the White Plume camp, where her Mother's finest soldiers were drilling and performing their camp duties.
Each piece in its place. She watched the men and women performing their duties with confidence and pride, recognizable to her even through her Mother's artifice. It was the pride of those who were working for something more inclusive than the self or the family. This, Cai Renxiang thought, was a small part of what might be, if she continued her Mother's work.
At least on the surface.
"Lady Cai?" Xin Lin asked.
She blinked, realizing that she had stopped to observe. It seemed she required rest more urgently than expected. "Just passing thoughts," she dismissed, resuming her walk.
"I am at my Lady's disposal," Xia Lin replied, resuming as she did.
Cai Renxiang considered Xia Lin. Scion of the generals clan, among the youngest of the White Plume's proper. It was difficult to judge her. That in itself was troubling.
Her martial skill and behavior were exemplary in almost all aspect. She stood as an example of what could be accomplished by the training of the White Plume. Yet Cai Renxiang found herself troubled in her judgement.
"I have not asked before," Cai Renxiang said conversationally. "What are your thoughts on our mission?"
"I am certain that Lady Cai will live up to expectations," Xia Lin replied.
Despite herself, Cai Renxiang frowned. It was an honest answer, she was not being placated, and yet, it rang hollow. Perhaps she had spent too long in the company of her other retainers. "I would prefer your opinion on the mission itself and its efficacy."
Xia Lin paused briefly. "Multi-front conflicts are suboptimal in almost all cases. I…"
She trailed off, and Cai Renxiang watched her out of the corner of her eye. There it was, the reticence that hid beneath discipline. A flaw in the steel.
"I believe that achieving a ceasefire with the barbarians is a reasonable choice of action, but the pretext does seem thin," Xia Lin finished.
She sounded uncertain. Cai Renxiang understood.
Xia Ren had said it herself, a strong blow could shatter tradition well enough. In forging the Xia from the ruin of the Sadala, the General had struck many strong blows. Cai Renxiang thought of the General, and the girl before her. The engine of war and the rootless soldier, hiding within her armor. How many of the other White Plume's were such beneath their helms?
Could plans which produced such things be perfect?
Cai Renxiang dismissed that traitorous and errant thought. Even perfection had to contend with reality and flawed tools. That was the nature of the impure world.
"I do not believe it is as thin as you believe, such arguments may be more convincing than any recounting of facts," Cai Renxiang said quietly. The spots in her vision were getting worse. "Let us say that you are correct however. The logical reasons remain. Peace is more beneficial than war when interests are not in conflict. Exchange of goods produces more value than theft. Is it wrong then to craft a story which presents a foundation on which to build those things?"
"I suppose not," Xia Lin said. "I will bow to your greater expertise."
Cai Renxiang closed her eyes for a moment as they arrived at her tent. She wished that Xia Lin would disagree. Xia Lin reminded her far too much of herself, a doll who once arrogantly believed that she could clearly see her own strings.
"You are dismissed to your other duties," Cai Renxiang said cooly, not allowing her thoughts to show.
"As you say, Lady Cai," Xia Lin said, a faint crease in her brow. She had likely noticed Cai Renxiang's dissatisfaction. Another sign that she needed her rest.
Tomorrow they would depart the main force. She would need to be at her peak.
ContemplateLife
Philosopher Thesaurus
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Great look into CRX's mind! It was nice to see how she has grown over the course of her time in the Sect!
None can resist our Ling Qiness