Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
doing a line tally to see what exactly still is the point of contention.
Inserted tally (ignore the "plan" line)
[edit] it seems that the question is whether we want Ling Qi to attack the "stone carriers" or target the stone itself directly.
Inserted tally (ignore the "plan" line)
[edit] it seems that the question is whether we want Ling Qi to attack the "stone carriers" or target the stone itself directly.
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- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Inserted tally
How fresh is Ling Qi? She did stealth over here and have techniques close to expiring...
Pretty fresh, shes only used Wind Thiefs stealth techs once and gotten a bunch of stealth buffs from other nearby scouting Disciples
- Location
- Computer Desk
[X] Plan Star Stealing Shenanigans
I have strong misgivings about the current leading vote.
Tactically, the artillery choices are fine, ideal even. Guan Zhi alpha striking the cyan, and perhaps more relevantly, his surrounding assorted green commanders, CRX on the shishigui to potentially deny earth manipulation bullshit and act as a counter to the assorted weirdness they can output.
My problems come with LQ's focus. Changing battleplans on the fly to defend (or worse, attempt to relocate in the middle of a battle) a desirable plot-rock of massive power and girth, that's shown to be actively disruptive to qi constructs just screams 'tactical mistake' to me.
Let me explain why.
First, we need to take a look at what the thing actually is:
So what's the issue here?
Nevertheless, we absolutely cannot let the other factions obtain it. Such a potent artefact could be used to wreak untold havoc later down the line. Luckily for us, however, it's a giant, three-storey tall, qi devouring rock. It's not going anywhere by itself, and moving such a thing would not be trivial.
There are two entities that could expediently move the thing: the cyan leader of the Twelve Stars, and the G7 Shishigui envoy. The former, in this instance, is going to rapidly have his hands full in dealing with Guan Zhi, as no matter where she's aimed, it becomes her job to handle him. The latter, however, is much more of a concern.
In the event that CRX launches her full-powered alpha strike at the Shishigui, she'll cause an incredible amount of disruption, both through sheer damage and the resultant environmental effects, which notably have been shown to prevent the burrowing of Earth cultivators during the bandit raid arc. At three full stages above her, however, there is little doubt that the Envoy itself will survive, and given the ease that they manipulated the earth to bring forth the plot-rock in the first place, even through her Qi-bleaching effects they could probably abscond with the thing given sufficient time or space.
It thus falls to us, in combination with the incoming CRX, to not give them that time or space. Make no mistake, a green 7 opponent is no trivial foe, and with Liao Zhu assigned to the outer rim, and Guan Zhi otherwise engaged, they have no single peer on the battlefield. Between the two of us, however, with CRX's assorted bullshit, I think it's a fight we could feasibly take, and regardless of whether we win or not, we are perfectly capable of being irritating enough to prevent any focused attempt to move the giant rock.
This also has the added benefit of fulfilling our original goal - to demonstrate how potent the two of us are working in tandem in a full live-fire scenario.
If you haven't already gathered, my preferred combination of choices, given all the above reasoning is:
or:
[X] Plan Bishoujo Battle: Barbarian X Bard
Apropos of nothing, this is a terrible goddamn plan name, as the bardbarian is completely irrelevant to what the plan actually wants to achieve. Given the way that the narrative has been set up, I suspect that an eventual clash with him is inevitable, regardless of our actual choices. But alas, I did not choose it - something like 'CRX Cooperation' or 'No Diggy Diggy Hole' would have been more in-line with its actual substance.
Tactically, the artillery choices are fine, ideal even. Guan Zhi alpha striking the cyan, and perhaps more relevantly, his surrounding assorted green commanders, CRX on the shishigui to potentially deny earth manipulation bullshit and act as a counter to the assorted weirdness they can output.
My problems come with LQ's focus. Changing battleplans on the fly to defend (or worse, attempt to relocate in the middle of a battle) a desirable plot-rock of massive power and girth, that's shown to be actively disruptive to qi constructs just screams 'tactical mistake' to me.
Let me explain why.
First, we need to take a look at what the thing actually is:
- Physically, the plot-rock is a three-storey tall boulder composed of a prism(?)-tier material renowned for breaking down and distorting Qi constructs. Note, in this instance, 'Qi constructs' doesn't just mean things like Ling Qi's dancers, but anything made from Qi, which, in FoD-verse, is everything in the world. It's eldritch, it's spooky, it's alien - essentially, the meteorite from Colour Out of Space, and holds incredibly military value for the Cloud Nomads.
- Metaphysically, the object is of great religious significance for the assorted cloud tribes - quite literally, the substance of gods. It's worth pointing out that in FoD, the stars are the enemies of the Nameless Mother and Father, spirits forever exiled from the world, and completely orthogonal to it. If this rock is as I suspect, it could quite literally be part of the body of one of those alien entities, fallen to earth in that primordial conflict.
So what's the issue here?
- First and foremost, trying to defend the giant, glowing rock paints an enormous target on our backs, from all different angles on a chaotic, scattered battlefield. To the Twelve Stars, this imperial cultivator is attempting to interfere with their god-rock, a heresy of the highest order. To the Shishigui, we're actively interfering with their efforts to bring a powerful ally on side. We've suddenly gained the very personal enmity of most of the people on the opposite side of the conflict.
- Following on from this, if, and it's a big if, we manage to find a way to successfully move the thing somewhat, we're stuck in the unenviable position of trying to escort a giant, Qi devouring rock using expensive techniques away from an active battlefield, while our enemies have no such burdens, and can also fly. Not ideal.
- All things considered, I have little confidence in our ability to actually do so, especially if trying to experiment in an active conflict zone, which just seems like a terrible idea.
Nevertheless, we absolutely cannot let the other factions obtain it. Such a potent artefact could be used to wreak untold havoc later down the line. Luckily for us, however, it's a giant, three-storey tall, qi devouring rock. It's not going anywhere by itself, and moving such a thing would not be trivial.
There are two entities that could expediently move the thing: the cyan leader of the Twelve Stars, and the G7 Shishigui envoy. The former, in this instance, is going to rapidly have his hands full in dealing with Guan Zhi, as no matter where she's aimed, it becomes her job to handle him. The latter, however, is much more of a concern.
In the event that CRX launches her full-powered alpha strike at the Shishigui, she'll cause an incredible amount of disruption, both through sheer damage and the resultant environmental effects, which notably have been shown to prevent the burrowing of Earth cultivators during the bandit raid arc. At three full stages above her, however, there is little doubt that the Envoy itself will survive, and given the ease that they manipulated the earth to bring forth the plot-rock in the first place, even through her Qi-bleaching effects they could probably abscond with the thing given sufficient time or space.
It thus falls to us, in combination with the incoming CRX, to not give them that time or space. Make no mistake, a green 7 opponent is no trivial foe, and with Liao Zhu assigned to the outer rim, and Guan Zhi otherwise engaged, they have no single peer on the battlefield. Between the two of us, however, with CRX's assorted bullshit, I think it's a fight we could feasibly take, and regardless of whether we win or not, we are perfectly capable of being irritating enough to prevent any focused attempt to move the giant rock.
This also has the added benefit of fulfilling our original goal - to demonstrate how potent the two of us are working in tandem in a full live-fire scenario.
If you haven't already gathered, my preferred combination of choices, given all the above reasoning is:
or:
[X] Plan Bishoujo Battle: Barbarian X Bard
Apropos of nothing, this is a terrible goddamn plan name, as the bardbarian is completely irrelevant to what the plan actually wants to achieve. Given the way that the narrative has been set up, I suspect that an eventual clash with him is inevitable, regardless of our actual choices. But alas, I did not choose it - something like 'CRX Cooperation' or 'No Diggy Diggy Hole' would have been more in-line with its actual substance.
If it is such an important strategic material, we should move to secure it immediately. Who knows what kind of hidden security mechanisms are tied to that thing? The Shishigui aren't idiots, they are meeting several factions who absolutely covet that rock. It's up to LQ to investigate if they have any tricks hidden up their sleeve that could deny the Starstone.
[X] Plan XCOM door breach:
[X] Plan Strategic Support Stymieing
XCOM doesn't have much of as chance, but I really, really want to disrupt that buff chain so I'll vote for anything that does so.
[X] Plan Strategic Support Stymieing
XCOM doesn't have much of as chance, but I really, really want to disrupt that buff chain so I'll vote for anything that does so.
And that's besides the point
The tactical value of it comes just as much from it being a part of the landscape as it comes from it being an object for looting.
Simply making the visible attempt is an intolerable offense to the Cloud Barbarians and a massive threat to the Shishiguis position.
This means that in the midst of scrum, they cant afford to devote all their resources to hitting one of our heavy hitters in Renxiang or Guan Zhi. It splits their party, and let's our larger number of weaker third realms coordinate and initiate buff trains more easily
Dont see anything wrong here
This is a net positive, as while the Shishigui and 12 Stars factions are having their best units tied up engaged with Guan Zhi and Renxiang, that means they'll be forced to split their parties and send their weakened and thus far more vulnerable third realms at Ling Qi, who is uniquely suited to taking on such scenarios and absolutely demolishing those that are not her peers or better in masses combat
Which is besides the point
I doubt we'll nab It successfully either.
It's more about denying assets to their face and threatening them to fight on the Sects terms (including Ling Qi)
And if we are engaged with the Two G5s and the G7 together, that also provides an opportunity for Dancer Assassins to step in, hold off Renxiang and Ling Qi, and buy the G7 the time they need to actually make off with the space stone
We've never fought a Shishigui trying to tarpit, but given what happened in the Spelunking thing when Ling qi first encountered them, it should be fairly plausible for them.to do so
Along with the whole self destructing thing
The best case scenario is that Renxiang, backed by a bunch of other greens, tanks the Shishigui while Ling Qi keeps Bardbarian and friends along with some 12 star greens tied up, forcing any Assassin dancers present to try and ambush Ling qi where shes strongest to try and disrupt her
Which assuming it would be a peer, means the fight would be about dislodging Ling Qi, rather than trying to buy an opening for the G7 to disengage.
The other scenarios are various permutations of "Ling qi isnt bullying literally all the Green cloud barbarians at once so the assault Team members are too busy to assist Renxiang as a whole"
The hidden security mechanism = being a giant rock that disrupts qi.
Tricks hidden up their sleeve = The aforementioned G7 shishigui who brought the rock up trivially in the first place.
Hence, Xeph's suggestion of attacking and defeating the G7 shishigui to prevent him from trivially moving the giant qi rock away.
If they can bring it out with magic, they can bring it back:
Sure, CRX can counter their burrowing, but obviously Arts can affect the stone if they can move the stone. It isn't a leap to conclude they may have other contingencies tied to the starstone.
And the point about the very likely presence of Assassin dancers capable of stalling out Ling Qi and Renxiang to buy the G7 time to disengage?
I'm kinda curious if the shishigui guy can just take back the rock through clapping again
- Location
- California
[X] Plan Star Stealing Shenanigans
I'd rather not risk the Shishigui sending the starstone under the earth instead of defending. We know they're prepared to die to deny us intelligence. And the stone is much more important than some G3 assassin.
I'd rather not risk the Shishigui sending the starstone under the earth instead of defending. We know they're prepared to die to deny us intelligence. And the stone is much more important than some G3 assassin.
- Location
- California
I'm not sure this plan is actually better at achieving this. We don't know how effective dream porting or physically securing the stone would be in face of the measures the G7 might take to send it back underground or make it inaccessible. Although it's possible that Ling Qi is successful, I think applying more offensive pressure against the shishigui alongside CRX would be a more reliable strategy. This would keep the G7 more occupied and less sure that our goal is the starstone.
CRX can apparently make the Earth not Earth with her nuke, presumably preventing the shishigui from bringing the stone back underground, so this scenario shouldn't be that big of a concern anyway. The shishigui could counter this somehow, but I don't think that's likely to happen immediately.
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- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Bishoujo Battle: Barbarian X Bard
Having read through the past dozen pages of debate, I have come around to this plan. I was originally interested in the star stone vote, but attempts to steal or secure a giant Qi destroying rock would in fact by stymied by the fact that it is....a giant Qi destroying rock. It paints a target on our back, we don't have any real plan of what to do with it, and I really don't think anyone other than the Cloud Tribe Cyan or the Shishigui earthbender can move it with any degree of haste anyway. So focus on getting them out of the fight as quickly as possible and secure the eldritch mineral afterward. The fact that it gives us a chance to work on our stated objective of showing how well we can work with CRX is a nice bonus.
Having read through the past dozen pages of debate, I have come around to this plan. I was originally interested in the star stone vote, but attempts to steal or secure a giant Qi destroying rock would in fact by stymied by the fact that it is....a giant Qi destroying rock. It paints a target on our back, we don't have any real plan of what to do with it, and I really don't think anyone other than the Cloud Tribe Cyan or the Shishigui earthbender can move it with any degree of haste anyway. So focus on getting them out of the fight as quickly as possible and secure the eldritch mineral afterward. The fact that it gives us a chance to work on our stated objective of showing how well we can work with CRX is a nice bonus.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I thought everything in the setting was made of Shen? Higher order or more refined qi or something like that?
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
The stone was breaking the qi bonds of the rock it was placed on turning it into a iridescent paste.
I think it's safe to say this thing is just breaking down reality.
- Location
- Florida
We don't need to beat him just distract him and put him off kilter while CRX punches him in the face repeatedly, eagle yeet dream dancers to confuse hanyi to lure six to get him drunk.
Us winning is by making sure the clock keeps ticking until reinforcements arrive to help us and making sure he can't focus to bury the stone
Us winning is by making sure the clock keeps ticking until reinforcements arrive to help us and making sure he can't focus to bury the stone
A mass of greens backing up Renxiang would be a pretty effective counter to a G7.
The issue with consolidation is that if the G7 gets an opportunity to breakaway then he'll have a clear shot at the stone, which is far more likely when all of his faction are joining him in a single fight
Again, splitting the party is a really big advantage here
Hm. I think it is important to keep in mind we're only aiming the artillery barrages, and while we can reasonably assume our Cyan will focus on the other Cyan for CRX she'll determine who to target based upon the circumstances when she reaches the main battle area. Furthermore Ling Qi isn't arrogant enough to think she can delay the opposition indefinitely given the number of third realms present within the caldera, but in the probable circumstance of her being unable to move the Starstone she is trying to make the most of what is shaping up to be a troubling political situation from her pov i.e she is going out on a limb, and trusting the person who is thinking parallel to her to make it in time to bail her out.
Because a good portion of the reasoning behind securing the Starstone imo is that it changes the momentum of the battle from "The ritual/moot is being attacked!" to "Thunderdome Redux: The Showdown for the Starstone!". This is a good thing as we have no method for keeping the Shishigui from simply bailing when they want to meaning we need to keep them around by stacking a claim on their loot if we want to get intelligence from their corpses, and Cloud Nomads are so well known for their ability to disengage that a bit under half the disciples who volunteered for this mission are on the perimeter in attempt to catch them when they do so.
Also keep in mind that if we manage to drag this battle on long enough in the event that the enemy Cyan bails with the Starstone the odds of him being able to carry it through a fresh Cyan are small, and if he's forced to pay a price to grab in the middle of a battle his side is losing then Diao Gen might be able to get Jiao the corpse of a Cyan realm cultivator containing juicy intelligence, which is something that reflects well on both CRX/LQ.
Finally the similarities with wargames with Wang mean all the green realm cultivators who Ling Qi noted were present should enjoy being on the other side, and either have a pretty good idea where they can contribute to shore up the mobile hardpoint, or have worked with Ling Qi in the past allowing her to do so, which gives them an opportunity to demonstrate their abilities to the Argent Sect.
Because a good portion of the reasoning behind securing the Starstone imo is that it changes the momentum of the battle from "The ritual/moot is being attacked!" to "Thunderdome Redux: The Showdown for the Starstone!". This is a good thing as we have no method for keeping the Shishigui from simply bailing when they want to meaning we need to keep them around by stacking a claim on their loot if we want to get intelligence from their corpses, and Cloud Nomads are so well known for their ability to disengage that a bit under half the disciples who volunteered for this mission are on the perimeter in attempt to catch them when they do so.
Also keep in mind that if we manage to drag this battle on long enough in the event that the enemy Cyan bails with the Starstone the odds of him being able to carry it through a fresh Cyan are small, and if he's forced to pay a price to grab in the middle of a battle his side is losing then Diao Gen might be able to get Jiao the corpse of a Cyan realm cultivator containing juicy intelligence, which is something that reflects well on both CRX/LQ.
Finally the similarities with wargames with Wang mean all the green realm cultivators who Ling Qi noted were present should enjoy being on the other side, and either have a pretty good idea where they can contribute to shore up the mobile hardpoint, or have worked with Ling Qi in the past allowing her to do so, which gives them an opportunity to demonstrate their abilities to the Argent Sect.