Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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LQ is talent 6, it is listed on the front page.* My head theory is Qingge was ~5, but it has degraded to ~3.5 +/- .5


* Argent Genesis gives an effective + .5 boost
 
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I am sure that she had decent talent being the mother to two daughters with good talent but I doubt that it was on par with Ling Qi in her youth. She likely would have been head hunted as one of her clan's few cultivators or by the Ministry of Integrity if that was the case
As well as Ministry not casually involving themselves in clan affairs, so likely avoiding her after she split from the family due to still carrying the interest of the local lords (and the age/pregnancy already mentioned), I wouldn't be surprised if the attempt to make her a concubine was her being head hunted by her family's liege lords.
 
I'd be very surprised if a clan with a Yellow Patriarch had anything that would phase the Ministry of Integrity, and even if they did the brothel Ling Qingge ended up in almost certainly wouldn't.
Against what much be a general and very broad divination? It would not take much. It is hard to tell someone's talent when you are standing right next to them. Also what the Ministry of Integrity is really looking for are wild talents that are unconnected to the empire. The sort of people likely to become bandits and rebels. If you are part of a clan able to get even the most basic warding then you generally are not what they are looking for.
 
And i'm saying we should not follow their example.

Marrying a primary love match would be a mistake for a couple reasons.

New partner attraction(the "honeymoon phase", being "in love") lasts a few years. We're Immortals. It's an even worse decision to base our marriage on than it is in real life.

Marrying a romantic partner adds a level of volatility to our family that's not required.

It's the sort of mistake a first generation Noble would make, and thus one we need to avoid even more to not let the gossip mongers stereotype us.

Lastly theres no real reason for it. Monogamy is not required culturally, we're free to have paramours as long as we're subtle about it and make sure theres no children from it.
 
Marrying a primary love match would be a mistake for a couple reasons.

New partner attraction(the "honeymoon phase", being "in love") lasts a few years. We're Immortals. It's an even worse decision to base our marriage on than it is in real life.

Marrying a romantic partner adds a level of volatility to our family that's not required.

It's the sort of mistake a first generation Noble would make, and thus one we need to avoid even more to not let the gossip mongers stereotype us.

Lastly theres no real reason for it. Monogamy is not required culturally, we're free to have paramours as long as we're subtle about it and make sure theres no children from it.
Again, no selling our kin, or buying the kin of others.
Love might not necessarily be enough for a stable long (millenia) term relationship, but we should also not marry for money, or power, or trade agreements.

Also, fuck gossip mongers, we'll make it through by being too awesome to be destroyed.
 
Against what much be a general and very broad divination? It would not take much. It is hard to tell someone's talent when you are standing right next to them. Also what the Ministry of Integrity is really looking for are wild talents that are unconnected to the empire. The sort of people likely to become bandits and rebels. If you are part of a clan able to get even the most basic warding then you generally are not what they are looking for.

We can only really speculate, since we don't know the actual mechanism the Ministry of Integrity uses to find persons of interest (after trawling through the threads the best I could find was a request from yrsillar to please stop asking lol). For all we know it could be managed by low level cultivators working from Xianmen, or Green+ cultivators individually checking every major settlement, or anything in between.

That said, I think it is unlikely that they couldn't get past low-level wards if their job is to search out potential threats. I'm reminded of someone like Gan Gaungli, whose father was a low ranking soldier who got crippled and then tossed aside. That is the sort of situation that could lead someone growing up hostile to the empire while still having access to basic warding. Also, if their biggest fear is a Sage-Emperor type situation, where a highly talented rogue cultivator gets adopted by a powerful spirit, I think to be safe they would have to assume such a spirit would protect against divination.

The Ministry only checks people in the ideal cultivating age range, so they'd be checking children and teens. Qingge was either at or past that limit by the time she ran away from home, considering she got pregnant shortly after.
Anyone older than 16-18 don't need to be checkdd. The age debuff will deal with them

Do you have a source for that? I've been looking but can't find any reference to the Ministry's only looking for people in the ideal age range. If their job is to search for potential threats a talented mortal in their late teens could easily grow to be as dangerous as someone a few years younger if they attract the attention of a powerful spirit. Particularly if enough resources can counteract the age debuff as you suggest.

Regardless, I don't think that you can say that Qingge wouldn't have been checked because she got pregnant and was therefore older than 16-18. After searching through the threads the only solid reference to Qingge's age that I could find was from Turn 8: 2-1:

"Ling Qi, I was never prepared to be a mother, at an age barely older than you are now. My conditions may have left me in a poor state, but that only explains my mistakes. It does not excuse them," Ling Qingge retorted sharply. "So do not spare my feelings."

If I'm remembering correctly Ling Qi is currently 15, and while the 'barely' gives some wiggle room I don't think that could be stretched much beyond a year or two. Adding on the time it takes to actually be pregnant and I think it likely Qingge would have been somewhere between 15 and 17 when she ran away from home, which is a decent age to start cultivating.

While it's possible that she really is as talented as Ling Qi and was missed by her clan and then passed over by the Ministry due to bad luck or something, I think the far more likely answer is that she simply wasn't talented enough to warrant their attention.
 
Again, no selling our kin, or buying the kin of others.
Love might not necessarily be enough for a stable long (millenia) term relationship, but we should also not marry for money, or power, or trade agreements.

I'd never suggest that we should deal with someone's Clan and force a marriage. In addition to being gross, that's sub-optimal because it loses us the opportunity to have a good partner.

Marrying for money means picking a partner for the resources to establish our Clan, not picking a partner because Qi is greedy.

Marrying for power means picking a partner so that our budding family is safer, not because Qi wants to rule the world.

Ideally we're looking for 1: Someone we work well with(incl personal cultivation) 2: Someone we get along with(incl compatible Ways) 3:Someone who brings familial resources/connections to play.

Other criteria are irresponsible and dismissive of the responsibility we have to our current family and our/their future descendants.

Also, fuck gossip mongers, we'll make it through by being too awesome to be destroyed.

We do not have the power for this. We won't for centuries. The closest we have is being a net positive for the Cai to get protection from them, but part of our responsibility here is to limit their exposure in protecting us to hills we're willing to die on.

We're supposed to be a diplomat. We Cannot ignore gossip.

The He patriarch is probably Green. It was said that he is almost two centuries old and Yrs has said that Yellows generally live only about 100 years.

Peak humans live about 100 years. Reds should live at/slightly longer than that, and Yellows should be past that. I'd love to see WoG on it though.
 
The He patriarch is probably Green. It was said that he is almost two centuries old and Yrs has said that Yellows generally live only about 100 years.

After some searching for numbers on ages, I was able to find this post from the first thread:
She has a vague idea that cultivators live for a long time, no concrete information though. The longevity depends on how high you climb, but assuming they aren't done in by violence a first stage cultivator can expect to live into their early hundreds, and it only gets longer from there. Mr Inexorable Justice was over six hundred by the time he ascended for example.

And the He patriarch was described thusly:
She could remember her great uncle, the clan head of the He, a graying man said to be nearly two hundred years old, yet even the authoritative patriarch she recalled from her early memories paled compared to her daughter. For all that he had seemed an unshakable pillar of the clan, he was still just a man. Her daughter on the other hand... it was difficult to describe.

Given that he was noticeably graying before two hundred, and Ling Qingge felt there was a marked difference between his presence and Ling Qi's, I think he was most likely in the Yellow stage (although it was more than 15 years since Ling Qingge had last seen him and she was only a mortal at the time she could just be misremembering).
 
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Given that he was noticeably graying before two hundred, and Ling Qingge felt there was a marked difference between his presence and Ling Qi's, I think he was most likely in the Yellow stage (although it was more than 15 years since Ling Qingge had last seen him and she was only a mortal at the time she could just be misremembering).

I think your judgement that he was Yellow 15 years ago is sound. Keep in mind we got the first notably supernatural appearance tics the moment we broke through to Bronze and that if anything Qingge would have been more supernaturally aware to spiritual matters as a child than she was when she "met" Qi.
 
Regarding the marriage... Well, we already entered a mutually beneficial long-term relationship. In fact, we have been courted to enter that relationship. I'm talking about becoming CRX' retainer of course. Marriages don't seem to be that different from that. Or at least they don't have to be.
 
Again, no selling our kin, or buying the kin of others.
Love might not necessarily be enough for a stable long (millenia) term relationship, but we should also not marry for money, or power, or trade agreements.

I honestly don't see the issue with marrying for money, power, or trade agreements. It's a long term partnership where you have sex enough times to make some kids; no need to get soppy about it.
 
Talent 6. Ling Qi is fairly talented, but not earthshaking. She makes it up with high luck, tough work ethic and head demons armed with the dread sorcery of Excel.
I think Ling Qi's talent is being underestimated here. Talent 6 is not unheard of and there are individuals with higher talent but Talent 6 is considered dangerous enough that it would have to be destroyed rather then let free. Her talent was also high enough that anyone that wasn't a ducal or Ji Rong in the outer sect was envious of it. There were some pretty high talents among the Golden Fields group but none of them could keep up to us even with their more prevalent resources and headstart in cultivation. Lanlan was so envious she went through an extremely dangerous tribulation to even try to keep up. One of the first thing CRX commented on about Qi to her mother was that Qi managed to make it to Green 1 in less than a year, emphasizing her massive talent. I wouldn't be surprised if Qi actually has slightly higher talent than some of the ducals and they only keep ahead of her due to their massive amount of resources. Even in the inner sect it seems that Qi is likely to pass most count scions eventually further pointing to her talent being rare enough that it is very unlikely that her mother had the same talent in her youth. Ling Qi's talent is a bit of a fluke and as yrs has confirmed that high talent cannot be bred for (only decent talent can) I see nothing pointing to Qinnge having the same massive talent of her daughter.
 
I am pretty sure LQ will want to marry someone she actually likes and respects, but there's no reason for that to be incompatible with "a marriage alliance for mutual advantage."
"I am at least, very lucky," Ling Qi acknowledged. "But enough of me. I am afraid I am not very familiar with your group. When did the two of you reach the Inner Sect?"

"Lin Fei and I were lucky enough to scrape through last year," Sha Feng said with a chuckle.

"Speak for yourself, I placed fifth among the production students," Lin Fei replied with a sniff.

"You knew each other before as well then?" Ling Qi asked idly, just to keep the conversation going as they walked.

"We are quite familiar indeed, our families lands neighbor one another. We are betrothed," The young man said cheerfully.

"The trials one undergoes for family," Lin Fei said with a small smile.

Ling Qi was struck by awkward silence for a moment. Despite her jibes, Lin Fei did not exactly seem to dislike Sha Feng. The only examples of noble betrothal she had seen thus far were Xiulan and that girl who had attacked her over Huang Da. It seemed bizarre that Lin Fei was so content.
Sha Feng and Lin Fei are in a betrothal arranged by their families for the sake of good neighbor relations. They also seem genuinely fond of one another. You can, if you want to, view this as the families "selling" their scions for political or social gain. But if the couple likes each other and consents to the match, so what?
 
Regarding the marriage... Well, we already entered a mutually beneficial long-term relationship. In fact, we have been courted to enter that relationship. I'm talking about becoming CRX' retainer of course. Marriages don't seem to be that different from that. Or at least they don't have to be.

But isn't that really a relationship between the Ling and the Cai? With the Cai then asking that the Ling provide Ling Qi to act as Cai Renxiang's retainer?

Ling Qi could potentially view marriages in similar terms: they are simply another way to admit someone who is not one of the Ling into the clan (or, potentially, to give up a member). Who members of the Ling clan want to have romantic relationships with is no one's business but their own (obviously with exceptions if something horrible is happening), with the resources to take care of any of their children being provided by the clan itself if necessary (mortal tutoring and room and board being extremely cheap for even a Baron clan and some of the abuses being mitigated by a "be sincere or else!" Founder).

This isn't actually that far removed from how arranged marriages are supposed to work from a clan perspective anyway. It does, however, challenge some baseline assumptions and will make genealogists tear out their hair.

I honestly don't see the issue with marrying for money, power, or trade agreements. It's a long term partnership where you have sex enough times to make some kids; no need to get soppy about it.

Because sex for money makes LQ nervous given her background and running away from arranged marriages is a Ling clan tradition at this point?
 
I honestly don't see the issue with marrying for money, power, or trade agreements. It's a long term partnership where you have sex enough times to make some kids; no need to get soppy about it.
Because forcing people to have sex with someone they don't want to is gross and evil?
Like, duh?
If the thread wants to vote for Ling Qi marrying someone for whatever reason, fine.
But forcing other people to do it is a fucking huge nono.

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Ling Qi could potentially view marriages in similar terms: they are simply another way to admit someone who is not one of the Ling into the clan (or, potentially, to give up a member).
Adoption is a thing.
I fully support adopting any, and all, people that we like and want to bring into the family and who are willing to join.
 
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Keep in mind Ling Qi's Way is about family and that in the long run a Way must be compatible with one's actions. If Ling Qi believes that, for instance, that family is a treasure more important than any material good - she cannot a) marry for wealth b) arrange any marriages for her own family members where wealth is a primary motivating factor.

I feel like as our Way gets more and more constrained the insights we get from it are going to impinge on these definitions of what family is and not only what it means to Ling Qi.

Thank fuck our advanced insight is 'people have their own thoughts and opinions' because you can look at exhibit A Cai Mommy and at exhibit B Grandpappy Sun to see what happens when that isn't the case.

Ultimately I do believe that love and the nature of love - whether it is necessary or not - will be an inflection point that will greatly alter Ling Qi's character arc going forward.
 
Because forcing people to have sex with someone they don't want to is gross and evil?
Like, duh?
If the thread wants to vote for Ling Qi marrying someone for whatever reason, fine.
But forcing other people to do it is a fucking huge nono.

I think clan members should have veto power if they think they absolutely can't get along with a specific match, but I don't think there's anything wrong with, "I want you to consider this carefully and tell me if you can make it work, because it would be good for the clan if you can make it work."

Don't ask people to do what they absolutely can't do, but there's a big space between that and "don't try to arrange any marriages at all".
 
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There's also the fact CRX promised Qi she will personally make sure there will be no abuse from a future partner or there'll be hell to pay, so that's a rather moot point in itself.
 
Adoption is a thing.
I fully support adopting any, and all, people that we like and want to bring into the family and who are willing to join.

Adoption implies awkward things about social hierarchy. For instance marrying Xuan Shi might be possible but the Xuan would not look kindly on us adopting him. Having a separate word for a more equal sort of adoption could help not offend people we really don't want to offend in the first place.

I think clan members should have veto power if they think they absolutely can't get along with a specific match, but I don't think there's anything wrong with, "I want you to consider this carefully and tell me if you can make it work, because it would be good for the clan if you can make it work."

Don't ask people to do what they absolutely can't do, but there's a big line between that and "don't try to arrange any marriages at all".

Arranged marriages are fundamentally a way to form a connection between one clan and another. The actual people involved are mostly irrelevant, issues with face excepted. Us acknowledging a member of another clan as a member of ours serves basically all the same purposes.

Not guaranteeing that a sexual relationship will ensue reduces the strength of that bond in general, but Ling Qi is all about sincerity (strengthening the alliance) and she greatly values her family which this person would then be.

This also isn't that far removed from some other clans' traditions. The Xuan don't really keep track of who is the parents of whom on a social level. Not having any legal force for who is in a relationship with whom would be analogous.
 
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