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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Briefvoice said:
I think clan members should have veto power if they think they absolutely can't get along with a specific match, but I don't think there's anything wrong with, "I want you to consider this carefully and tell me if you can make it work, because it would be good for the clan if you can make it work."

Don't ask people to do what they absolutely can't do, but there's a big space between that and "don't try to arrange any marriages at all".
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Or maybe we go "there's this person who wants to court you, want to meet them or do i kick them out?".
Because "i want to consider this carefully" has the possibility to come very coercive very quickly ones Ling Qi is not personally in charge, and even when she is.

RebelYell said:
There's also the fact CRX promised Qi she will personally make sure there will be no abuse from a future partner or there'll be hell to pay, so that's a rather moot point in itself.
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We are not talking about Ling Qi's marriage, but the Ling clan overtime, CRX may not be around to do shit.

JohnnieBoy123 said:
Adoption implies awkward things about social hierarchy. For instance marrying Xuan Shi might be possible but the Xuan would not look kindly on us adopting him. Having a separate word for a more equal sort of adoption could help not offend people we really don't want to offend in the first place.
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So instead force someone to marry him so he can switch family names?
Fuck no.
If Xuan Shi feels his dignity is more important that someones consent, then he is not worth having in the family.
 
Briefvoice said:
I think clan members should have veto power if they think they absolutely can't get along with a specific match, but I don't think there's anything wrong with, "I want you to consider this carefully and tell me if you can make it work, because it would be good for the clan if you can make it work."

Don't ask people to do what they absolutely can't do, but there's a big space between that and "don't try to arrange any marriages at all".
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Yeah, that sounds about right.

Hell, I'm fine with our future descendants approaching us with someone they want to marry and us considering their choice instead.

At the end of the day though, producing children with a baseline amount of Talent is one of their(and our) duties.

It's also one of their(and our) duties to risk death in combat to defend family lands instead of running off to the capital. Are we going to pretend like lethal combat is a lesser imposition on someone?
 
Valmond said:
Or maybe we go "there's this person who wants to court you, want to meet them or do i kick them out?".
Because "i want to consider this carefully" has the possibility to come very coercive very quickly ones Ling Qi is not personally in charge, and even when she is.
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I would agree with you 100% if Ling Qi wasn't supernaturally competent at and specialized in earnest communication. They'll understand what she means unless she's trying to be covert.
 
Pretty sure CRX's promise also extends to our clan, though I'm also sure we will be able to handle that by ourselves if it ever comes up since anyone interested in our clan would be on similar cultivation level's as well and we'd be easily able to tell and bring hell if our family doesn't bring it up themselves.
 
Marry whoever, have kids with whoever, then have the first person assure everyone they're totally their kids?
 
Liliet said:
Marry whoever, have kids with whoever, then have the first person assure everyone they're totally their kids?
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Sure, why not? Sincerity as part of our domain will make lying to us be a right pain and raising some kids is always going to be a rounding error in our budget. If the kids have reasonable talent we'd want to adopt them anyway and if they don't then they will never cost anything meaningful.
 
I see that the quarterly arranged marriages is the devil discussion is here again. Ah, it is always fun to see modern culture programming in full swing.

I think the fundamental misconception here is also that arranged marriages are going be a thing no matter what people thing. Unless LQ´s kids etc go for mortals (and even then) they will have clans and familes to negotiate with. Unless the Ling clan goes full Zheng and that is... yeah.

Like it seems people think they can go against the culture of the setting by REEing hard enough.
 
OneArmedYeti said:
I would agree with you 100% if Ling Qi wasn't supernaturally competent at and specialized in earnest communication. They'll understand what she means unless she's trying to be covert.
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Ling Qi is not unable to lie (yet), and even if she becomes unable to lie, going "consider this carefully" can be coercive even when sincere.
"this would really help your family, save our lands, protect our people, but pressure, think it carefully".
No matter how much you intend that to not be coarcive, it is to anyone who feels they need to protect and/or help their family.

JohnnieBoy123 said:
Yes, that would be one of the conditions for our approval. The relationship between the two of them would last only as long as both of them want it to or we don't agree. Them being part of the family would be more assured.
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So why not skip the marriage anyway? This is already seems so against the usual marriage customs that might as well not bother.
 
Valmond said:
No matter how much you intend that to not be coarcive, it is to anyone who feels they need to protect and/or help their family.
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If someone values the long term prosperity of their family more than their personal preference in a partner, that is not coercion but a choice that individual should be free to make.
 
Vanguard_D said:
I see that the quarterly arranged marriages is the devil discussion is here again. Ah, it is always fun to see modern culture programming in full swing.

I think the fundamental misconception here is also that arranged marriages are going be a thing no matter what people thing. Unless LQ´s kids etc go for mortals (and even then) they will have clans and familes to negotiate with. Unless the Ling clan goes full Zheng and that is... yeah.

Like it seems people think they can go against the culture of the setting by REEing hard enough.
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Both the Zheng and Xuan also screw with this and CRX has told us in the past that clans are extremely idiosyncratic when it comes to how they deal with marriages and family.

If a family and sincerity cultivator tells you that your scion will be part of her family, then many may well decide that they don't need further assurances. Not now, obviously, as we don't have the power to make people take us as an individual, but it will only come up when our mortal children are becoming adults and that might well be in 25 years with us in the middle of Indigo. No one is going to want an arranged marriage with a spirit beast and Qingge can do whatever she wants.

Valmond said:
So why not skip the marriage anyway? This is already seems so against the usual marriage customs that might as well not bother.
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Because it helps describe how we want it to be taken and anyone allying with the Ling clan is going to have to accept that we offer our scions far more freedom than what is expected.
 
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Valmond said:
"this would really help your family, save our lands, protect our people, but pressure, think it carefully".
No matter how much you intend that to not be coarcive, it is to anyone who feels they need to protect and/or help their family.
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Theres going to be marriage in the Ling clan no ways around it for a number of reasons unless we decide to just not marry and be a prude about it which will be the downfall of the Ling clan in that theoretical scenario.
 
Marriage is a guarantee of an alliance/political connection in this setting. One of the most important ones. We can keep pushing modern western morality, but we'll only end up with Ling clan having no alliances down the line. While forcing people into marriages they actively dislike is a big no-no (ex: Xiulan), having love as our only consideration is a mistake as well.
 
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RebelYell said:
Theres going to be marriage in the Ling clan no ways around it for a number of reasons unless we decide to just not marry and be a prude about it which will be the downfall of the Ling clan in that theoretical scenario.
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And, as i have repeatedly said.
If someone actually wants to get married, great, have fun, when's the wedding, do we need to make a speech?
 
JohnnieBoy123 said:
Both the Zheng and Xuan also screw with this and CRX has told us in the past that clans are extremely idiosyncratic when it comes to how they deal with marriages and family.

If a family and sincerity cultivator tells you that your scion will be part of her family, then many may well decide that they don't need further assurances. Not now, obviously, as we don't have the power to make people take us as an individual, but it will only come up when our mortal children are becoming adults and that might well be in 25 years with us in the middle of Indigo. No one is going to want an arranged marriage with a spirit beast and Qingge can do whatever she wants.
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Zheng are the ones with the no marriages thing. Xuan only got weird property laws.

And no.
 
RebelYell said:
Tomorrow with Yan Renshu declaring our love of water of all that is wormy :V
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If you can get the thread to vote for it, then that's how it goes, nothing i can do to stop you.
I can't actually remember who Yan Renshu is.

edit-
Also, Ling Qi does not actually need to marry, nor is there technicly any need to have any marriage in Ling clan.
It might be helpful, but by no means absolutely necessary.
 
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Valmond said:
And, as i have repeatedly said.
If someone actually wants to get married, great, have fun, when's the wedding, do we need to make a speech?
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Probably have to make a contract, decide which one joins which family, which clan the kids will belong to, if any spiritblood should manifest(mostly in ducal or count tiers case). Dunno if the setting got dowry. Also what deals comes with the marriage.

This depends on if the other family accepts the match also or if we got a feud on our hands.
 
Vanguard_D said:
Probably have to make a contract, decide which one joins which family, which clan the kids will belong to, if any spiritblood should manifest(mostly in ducal or count tiers case). Dunno if the setting got dowry. Also what deals comes with the marriage.

This depends on if the other family accepts the match also or if we got a feud on our hands.
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Yes, and?
Not really sure what your point is.
Marriage arrangements are different from arranged marriages.
 
Vanguard_D said:
Zheng are the ones with the no marriages thing. Xuan only got weird property laws.

And no.
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The Xuan also don't acknowledge the relationship between parents and children. That makes the "have kids together" part a little difficult to prove.

And, again, CRX was explicit about how she was teaching us the imperial baseline and learning how any individual clan handles things could take years. As time goes on our Wind and Darkness natures will get in the way of arranged marriages, as will many of our insights.

Unless something in our cultivation changes we literally may not be able to force our children into an arranged marriage without breaking our Way, especially as we climb realms. If we are a family and a family needs many wills, then imposing ours upon our children could eventually literally kill us. After all that insight came from Zeqing killing herself by not imposing her will upon Hanyi.
 
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Valmond said:
Yes, and?
Not really sure what your point is.
Marriage arrangements are different from arranged marriages.
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The Gu were able to break their contract with the Fan due to cultivation.

It probably wouldn't be out of the question to include some sort of "Way comparability" clause which is a thinly veiled "does my son actually like your daughter" on top of actually meaning Way compatibility.

Hell, those clauses might be standard, we've done absolutely no research on this and Xiulan/Meizhen/Renxiang are terrible at not knowing what we don't know.
 
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