- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
I don't think were anywhere close to a Y/N vote yet, if that even happens.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I don't think were anywhere close to a Y/N vote yet, if that even happens.
It is not a romance vote, it is a poke LQ´s big red button and hope it does not go Nuclear vote.
Kind of a continuation on the Bao date in theme where we see how controlling her trauma is.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
The first is arguable, but ascribing the latter two to 'Xuan Shi wants to hide' is a mistake, when everything we've seen says that that's due to the culture of the Xuan clan, and nothing to do with his personality.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
My impression is that the opposite is happening? Like, people really want to find something to romance, first with Meizhen, and then with how every men characters have their fans. I don't think finding the romance boring is"despising feminity" here, and I'm a bit confounded by the idea that romance itself would be considered feminine. I don't think not liking the lack of chemistry between Xuan Shi and Ling Qi is evil.
Anyway, the vote isn't about romance as far as I can tell, it's just about how to take the current relationship. I don't really like the Xuan Shi relationship and I really think that Ling Qi shouldn't try to "increase the bond levels" like we are playing a persona game.
So he is a good 'victim' for a "let's actually not try to get a deeper relationship here".
Ok guys, ling qi need to be married just right before she casts off her personal bonds and step into white.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I am not in any sides here. But I just want to point out that quite frankly regardless of what the voters want, Ling Qi is not I think ready for any romantic, or indeed any emotionally resonant relationship with any man right now.
The debates surrounding Bao Qian or Xuan Shi by itself comes off as bland as fuck to me. Because to be frank, Ling Qi and thus through her the thread as a whole does not actually know them. With the barrier she understandably has, there is no real discussion its all arms length and talking about a heavily distorted mirror image that has to be communicated through a veil.
Its premature to say either one is somehow better or worse, because quite frankly nobody knows enough to make a real judgement. I've been in Quests where Characters used to be hated foes for IRL years only for an opportunity to arise for there to be finally some actual honest communication between them and the MC, ending with everyone leaving with a deep sense of longing for some sort of friendly relationship even if its not possible due to political realities.
So frankly I think its more productive to not focus on "which Husbando is better" but rather on "How can Ling Qi better communicate with these human beings"
The debates surrounding Bao Qian or Xuan Shi by itself comes off as bland as fuck to me. Because to be frank, Ling Qi and thus through her the thread as a whole does not actually know them. With the barrier she understandably has, there is no real discussion its all arms length and talking about a heavily distorted mirror image that has to be communicated through a veil.
Its premature to say either one is somehow better or worse, because quite frankly nobody knows enough to make a real judgement. I've been in Quests where Characters used to be hated foes for IRL years only for an opportunity to arise for there to be finally some actual honest communication between them and the MC, ending with everyone leaving with a deep sense of longing for some sort of friendly relationship even if its not possible due to political realities.
So frankly I think its more productive to not focus on "which Husbando is better" but rather on "How can Ling Qi better communicate with these human beings"
This actually says more than it initially appears to, considering the various social techniques cultivators can learn and use
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Sorry, should have been clearer. I agree insofar as the story and the majority of the posters go, but it is a point of view running through a number of comments here. 'ts why it was added as an edit, while I was reading onward.
And then the Nightmare isn't screwing with Xuan Shi's senses, but Qingge's.
If that happened, it'd be a serious dick move.
TimEd
Meteor maker
If it actually IS the Nightmare spirit, I still want answers as to why exactly Xuan Shi agreed to bond with the first spirit to come close to his orbit. Is he just that much of a Fantasy Nerd? Its a distinct possibility.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Inserted tally
Sirrocco
Pedantic
To be fair, Bao Qian is hampered by the fact that he's openly admitted that he's into Ling Qi, and now he has to keep her from running away. She's really quite good at running away.
As far as a detailed analysis of the man... I'll see what I can pull together, but it's going to take a separate post.
Dude's got a shell. More directly, he's absolutely been hiding his feelings towards Ling Qi. (Admittedly, she's made it pretty easy.) For that matter, he made an obvious enough deflection in the latest scene that even she caught it. This all counts as "hiding stuff".
This isn't about the voting. The whole point of this is to get some heavy discussion in well before the pertinent votes start going in, so that we have plenty of time to think, and bring up issues, and address them, and pull up quotes and so on without some dreadful sword of "votes are being cast and opinions crystallized right now" hanging over everyone's head making everybody calcify their positions so that they can play partisan more effectively. It's good to have the discovery period well in advance. Also, it keeps the conversation churning, and thus feeds the QM. Whiel we dont' have all the information available to us, we can at least start to identify what information we do have, and what information we lack. (...like, hey, what exactly would a marriage to Xuan Shi look like? As the head of our own nascent clan, that sort of thing matters.)
That said, "How can Ling Qi better communicate with these human beings" sounds like it's also an excellent topic, and if you have thoughts on the matter, I'd be interested to hear them.
Gu Tai's only fault was not having a scrooge mcduck money bin of drugs
Damn, I do miss mud boy.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
As the old saying goes "Get your own house in order".
Ling Qi's issue is that she has frankly no one with whom she can discuss the full range of her issues. Her mother and household staff knows the whole story being that its also their own story, but that also means they arent willing to talk about it themselves. Sixiang doesnt understand human mindsets well enough to have that talk. Meizhen and Renxiang knows of the street urchin part, but not the bit of the whore house and how she ran when someone tried to buy her first time when she was ten. Li Suyin might be a good person to unload ontop or maybe not.
My point being that in what seems to be a counter-productive manner, before she can trust any suitors with that sort of stuff. She first need to confide about that to a trusted female friend. It allows the bad shit to be out in the open instead of festering in her gut and having someone she can talk to means there is something who can be there to support her and advice her, even if its only in a general manner.
Or to bring out some psychology 101. Before she can feel ready to reach out, she needs secure attachment. Somethings that gives her a foundation of confidence with that issue so that she can allow herself to risk trusting some men and build up reasonable relationships with them.
Now its possible that building up a strong friendship with Xuan Shi would also do the trick, but I cannot predict what will happen give her own hang ups and his own passivity. So I believe starting that from a trusted female friend has more chances of working out.
Meizhen is aware that Ling Qi's mother was a courtesan and that Ling Qi was aware of it. It's part of their discussion in FOD at the black pool as to why Ling Qi was rather unhealthily close to Meizhen, and it comes out that Ling Qi isn't really aware of other types of friendships or closeness.
So Meizhen is probably the closest that she can talk to about this, and Meizhen is her best friend.
So Meizhen is probably the closest that she can talk to about this, and Meizhen is her best friend.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
Right but again, she's not aware of the "was targeted by a pedophile at 10 years old and feeling like her mother could not protect her" part. Which is kind of important, but also obviously something no one is necessarily going to want to admit out loud, even to and perhaps specifically towards their best friend whom they want to get along with their mother.
People can be monsters for the sake of others, and Meizhen, when you look at Meizhen's own super antipathy that is barely no hate towards her own father for a similar "failure", probably would not be able to help herself but to pit the blame on LQ's mother. Since this is both her best friend and also she can see some parallels to her own father.
While it probably isn't a good decision I can see why Xuan Shi would choose to bond with the Nightmare. It was playing on Ling Qi's insecurities when trying to make a deal, and when her domain kicked in it jumped to the next best target. Xuan Shi had just been listening to Zhengui insulting him for not being useful in the liminal realm while one of his few friends in the Sect was hurt and needing help he couldn't give. He was also wounded in the opening exchange of the fight and facing a stronger opponent, so while he performed really well I imagine it was a pretty desperate display from him. The situation would make an already upset Xuan Shi very aware of his own limitations and susceptible to the Nightmare's offer.
Ling Qi's Domain also protects her nearby friends and allies from compulsions. Ling Qingge is just as resistant as Ling Qi is. Xuan Shi would remain more vulnerable to them due to his low bond rating but it potentially could be upgraded during the conversation.
Isn't Xuan Shi also not great at spiritual defenses? Not bad either but weaker than Ling Qi?
Isn't Xuan Shi also not great at spiritual defenses? Not bad either but weaker than Ling Qi?
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
While it's not as high as his physical armor, I wouldn't say that his spiritual armor isn't "great" (He had S. Armor A and that was at turn 4). His main weakness really is his low avoid.
TimEd
Meteor maker
Im voting on talking to him partialy because I want to know what exactly is the status between him and that Liminal spirit.
I dont wanna doubt his choices, but checking up on him on this matter (even just hints) might give us clues on possible Xuan Shi changes, whether good or bad.
It's gonna be the moth butler boy and won't we feel bad
Sirrocco
Pedantic
So, first meeting...
He's ostentatious. He wears rich fabrics and precious gems. His initial presentation is as a jewel - a rare and valuable thing, to be desired and coveted.
- There's too much of it to quote, but on his first meeting, he is generous with politeness and honest praise.
- Here we get a hint of his "always be hustling". He is always looking for ways of making more money... but he's looking for it in mutually beneficial deals, rather than exploitative ones. He wants to become increasingly wealthy, certainly, but he wants to lift up those that come with him at the same time. We also get a hint below the courtly talk. My read is that he really is comfortable in the whirl of courtly discussion. He enjoys the dance of words. The Bao Qian that we see here is in some ways the true Bao Qian.
- side note from QM indicates that Ling Qi is just about 16 (may have turned 16 since?) and he's between two and three years older than she is.
Always be hustling.
He's unwilling to share the secrets of family, but absolutely willing to smooth over whatever can be smoothed.
His spirit does not share his opinions of the gentle art of conversation, but, I suspect, was far to valuable to pass up.
- in general, he shows an effort to smooth things over, he looks for opportunities to honestly complement, and he is straightforward with his offers whenever he sees an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's like... the complements and social dancing is an aura he maintains (easily and happily, with some enjoyment) but the financial opportunities that arise are the payoff, and he'll absolutely take a shot at every one of them that presents itself.
From a financial strategy standpoint, he (and, it seems, the Bao in general) are in favor of achieving sustainable wealth and long-term investments, even if it means a loss in short-term gains. They prefer victories that can be achieved without causing anyone else a defeat. He's going to be looking to the long-term in his planning. or a guy like this, that is a notable aspect of his personality.
In particular from the bit about risk - he does not mind personal financial risk, if it comes with appropriate potential payoff, but he deplores collateral damage.
The Bao know that they are unusual, with their focus on growth and commerce. Bao Qian enjoys being Bao in this way.
...and we have more quotes that keep hammering the same themes. He is always looking for opportunities for mutual profit, he is entirely up front about his financial tendencies, and he's charming and friendly while he does it.
I'm going to agree with Sixiang here. I don't think he is in any way hiding what he is. He's presenting the greater part of himself up front, with the intent that we know what he's offering. He looks at the potential marriage as a potentially major deal - perhaps the most important in his life - and while he'd like to make it happen, it would be better to have no deal at all than a deal that goes sour. As such, he's presenting himself about as straightforwardly as he can - the charming merchant and businessman through and through - only dialing it back a bit because he doesn't want to overwhelm us. He's a salesman, and he would dearly like to know what Ling Qi wants, so that he can see if he can figure out a way to offer it. Of course, that's made harder by the fact that Ling Qi doesn't really know what she wants... and harder still by the fact that part of what she wants is "desperately run away".
Further, he's willing to drag himself out of his comfort zone in order to try to meet us where we are. He's willing to work on this one, and he continues to be open and up-front and fully honest. He absolutely thinks that he's worthy of us, and he thinks he can prove it. He has the Bao confidence... but if all that comes out of this is a series of mutually beneficial business agreements and an ongoing business contact, he'll still count it as a win.
Finally, there is his ambition. He doesn't want to be handed his wins. He wants to earn them. He wants to be able to look back on his life and say "I am wealthy, with many great works, and I deserve every bit of it." He wants to be a force that creates wealth, not just one that possesses it.
Or, for the TLDR
- He's an honestly friendly, gregarious guy. He's generous with the complements and tries to make the conversations around him feel good to be in because that's the kind of guy he likes to be. He enjoys the conversational dance. He's completely blunt and up-front about seeking business deals of mutual profit any time he can find them, and he is always hustling. "Friendly, ambitious, money-loving businessman who will make good deals with you" is his natural state, and the mode he's most comfortable in, and not a bit of it is fake.
- He's ostentatious. His outfit speaks of glittering wealth, and he's dripping in jewelry. The Bao are all about being wealthy and seeking to be more wealthy, and he enjoys being Bao. He has profound self-confidence, of the sort that only avoids outright arrogance by not being in any way obnoxious or denigrating to others. He just thinks very highly of himself, while also being happy to think highly (and speak highly) of those around him.
- He is very mercantile, and not even remotely ashamed of it. (See "enjoys being Bao".) He's looking at the potential match with Ling Qi as, in effect, a potential business agreement between the two of them... one that wouldn't come to fruition for a number of years regardless, and one where the virtues he can see in her as a person (and the ones he presents in return) are absolutely part of the exchange, but the attitude is as a business deal. It's an opportunity for mutual profit that he thinks both he and she would find very profitable indeed. By the same token, if it falls through? Well, there's no merit in making yourself miserable over the deals you didn't make when you could instead be making other also-profitable deals. If at the end of the day all he is to Ling Qi is a valued business contact with an ongoing series of mutually beneficial deals, that's a win in his book, and he'll take it as such. This is in stark contrast with Xuan Shi, for example, who gets emotionally entangled very easily, and is prepared to throw resources at the object of his affections without ever actually admitting his interest.
- Given how mercantile he is, his overall financial strategy and ethics actually are a significant part of his character. From what we've seen, he's upright and honest, he seeks mutual profit rather than exploitation, he prefers long-term investments to short-term payoffs, he sees much of war as wasteful rather than glorious, and in general he sees no value in unnecessary conflict. He's willing to accept personal financial risk, if the potential payoff is good enough, but he deplores collateral damage. I suspect that part of him admires Zhengui in that way... Zhengui walks, and the world is made wealthier by his passing.
- finally, we get to the end, when he really opens up, and we see a few things. First, while it's true that he'd be willing to take a lesser win, it's also the case that he's willing to push himself to get a shot at making this thing with Ling Qi work. He pushes himself into a kind of talking that is uncomfortable to him, and she really doesn't make it any easier, and he just keeps pushing through it, in spite of the discomfort. His main problem isn't unwillingness. He's willing to do quite a bit. His main issue is that Ling Qi isnt' giving him a whole lot to work with in how he's supposed to connect with her. WE also get his ambition. He doesn't want to merely own riches and possess great works. He wants to generate riches, and create great works. He wants to honestly earn his wealthy ending.
...and yeah, yeah that was the TLDR.
I think that's enough for the first meeting. I'll follow up further in later posts.
He's ostentatious. He wears rich fabrics and precious gems. His initial presentation is as a jewel - a rare and valuable thing, to be desired and coveted.
- There's too much of it to quote, but on his first meeting, he is generous with politeness and honest praise.
- Here we get a hint of his "always be hustling". He is always looking for ways of making more money... but he's looking for it in mutually beneficial deals, rather than exploitative ones. He wants to become increasingly wealthy, certainly, but he wants to lift up those that come with him at the same time. We also get a hint below the courtly talk. My read is that he really is comfortable in the whirl of courtly discussion. He enjoys the dance of words. The Bao Qian that we see here is in some ways the true Bao Qian.
He pays attention to the probable needs of the peopel aroudn him, and is considerate. At the same time, he does have his pride... and he advertises.
Again, always be hustling.
- side note from QM indicates that Ling Qi is just about 16 (may have turned 16 since?) and he's between two and three years older than she is.
Always be hustling.
He's unwilling to share the secrets of family, but absolutely willing to smooth over whatever can be smoothed.
His spirit does not share his opinions of the gentle art of conversation, but, I suspect, was far to valuable to pass up.
- in general, he shows an effort to smooth things over, he looks for opportunities to honestly complement, and he is straightforward with his offers whenever he sees an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's like... the complements and social dancing is an aura he maintains (easily and happily, with some enjoyment) but the financial opportunities that arise are the payoff, and he'll absolutely take a shot at every one of them that presents itself.
From a financial strategy standpoint, he (and, it seems, the Bao in general) are in favor of achieving sustainable wealth and long-term investments, even if it means a loss in short-term gains. They prefer victories that can be achieved without causing anyone else a defeat. He's going to be looking to the long-term in his planning. or a guy like this, that is a notable aspect of his personality.
In particular from the bit about risk - he does not mind personal financial risk, if it comes with appropriate potential payoff, but he deplores collateral damage.
The Bao know that they are unusual, with their focus on growth and commerce. Bao Qian enjoys being Bao in this way.
...and we have more quotes that keep hammering the same themes. He is always looking for opportunities for mutual profit, he is entirely up front about his financial tendencies, and he's charming and friendly while he does it.
I'm going to agree with Sixiang here. I don't think he is in any way hiding what he is. He's presenting the greater part of himself up front, with the intent that we know what he's offering. He looks at the potential marriage as a potentially major deal - perhaps the most important in his life - and while he'd like to make it happen, it would be better to have no deal at all than a deal that goes sour. As such, he's presenting himself about as straightforwardly as he can - the charming merchant and businessman through and through - only dialing it back a bit because he doesn't want to overwhelm us. He's a salesman, and he would dearly like to know what Ling Qi wants, so that he can see if he can figure out a way to offer it. Of course, that's made harder by the fact that Ling Qi doesn't really know what she wants... and harder still by the fact that part of what she wants is "desperately run away".
First, he is trying very hard to make this deal work. That's a bit of insight here. It is a deal for him, and one he seeks to make mutually advantageous. He sees a lot to admire in Ling Qi, certainly, but he isn't emotionally engaged in the way that, say, Xuan Shi is, or even the wistful dalliance with the idea of romance that Gu Rejected had. He's taking the first steps to forge a marriage deal with "Baroness Ling, Black Left Hand of the Heir to the Cai", and any romancing of "Ling Qi, sixteen-year-old girl" that happens along the way would be at least partially in service to that, rather than for its own sake. At the same time, he values many of Ling Qi's aspects that others would grow romantic over as well... it's just that romance is not the lens by which he approaches it.
Further, he's willing to drag himself out of his comfort zone in order to try to meet us where we are. He's willing to work on this one, and he continues to be open and up-front and fully honest. He absolutely thinks that he's worthy of us, and he thinks he can prove it. He has the Bao confidence... but if all that comes out of this is a series of mutually beneficial business agreements and an ongoing business contact, he'll still count it as a win.
Finally, there is his ambition. He doesn't want to be handed his wins. He wants to earn them. He wants to be able to look back on his life and say "I am wealthy, with many great works, and I deserve every bit of it." He wants to be a force that creates wealth, not just one that possesses it.
Or, for the TLDR
- He's an honestly friendly, gregarious guy. He's generous with the complements and tries to make the conversations around him feel good to be in because that's the kind of guy he likes to be. He enjoys the conversational dance. He's completely blunt and up-front about seeking business deals of mutual profit any time he can find them, and he is always hustling. "Friendly, ambitious, money-loving businessman who will make good deals with you" is his natural state, and the mode he's most comfortable in, and not a bit of it is fake.
- He's ostentatious. His outfit speaks of glittering wealth, and he's dripping in jewelry. The Bao are all about being wealthy and seeking to be more wealthy, and he enjoys being Bao. He has profound self-confidence, of the sort that only avoids outright arrogance by not being in any way obnoxious or denigrating to others. He just thinks very highly of himself, while also being happy to think highly (and speak highly) of those around him.
- He is very mercantile, and not even remotely ashamed of it. (See "enjoys being Bao".) He's looking at the potential match with Ling Qi as, in effect, a potential business agreement between the two of them... one that wouldn't come to fruition for a number of years regardless, and one where the virtues he can see in her as a person (and the ones he presents in return) are absolutely part of the exchange, but the attitude is as a business deal. It's an opportunity for mutual profit that he thinks both he and she would find very profitable indeed. By the same token, if it falls through? Well, there's no merit in making yourself miserable over the deals you didn't make when you could instead be making other also-profitable deals. If at the end of the day all he is to Ling Qi is a valued business contact with an ongoing series of mutually beneficial deals, that's a win in his book, and he'll take it as such. This is in stark contrast with Xuan Shi, for example, who gets emotionally entangled very easily, and is prepared to throw resources at the object of his affections without ever actually admitting his interest.
- Given how mercantile he is, his overall financial strategy and ethics actually are a significant part of his character. From what we've seen, he's upright and honest, he seeks mutual profit rather than exploitation, he prefers long-term investments to short-term payoffs, he sees much of war as wasteful rather than glorious, and in general he sees no value in unnecessary conflict. He's willing to accept personal financial risk, if the potential payoff is good enough, but he deplores collateral damage. I suspect that part of him admires Zhengui in that way... Zhengui walks, and the world is made wealthier by his passing.
- finally, we get to the end, when he really opens up, and we see a few things. First, while it's true that he'd be willing to take a lesser win, it's also the case that he's willing to push himself to get a shot at making this thing with Ling Qi work. He pushes himself into a kind of talking that is uncomfortable to him, and she really doesn't make it any easier, and he just keeps pushing through it, in spite of the discomfort. His main problem isn't unwillingness. He's willing to do quite a bit. His main issue is that Ling Qi isnt' giving him a whole lot to work with in how he's supposed to connect with her. WE also get his ambition. He doesn't want to merely own riches and possess great works. He wants to generate riches, and create great works. He wants to honestly earn his wealthy ending.
...and yeah, yeah that was the TLDR.
I think that's enough for the first meeting. I'll follow up further in later posts.
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