Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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If it works on two degrees of seperation or more, it would be easier to just say it gives complete immunity.
Theres only one degree of separation: if the spirit is influencing Qingge to give advice that would hurt Ling Qi because Ling Qi may act on the bad advice, then it counts. It would not care if it influenced Qingge to hurt Xuan Shi, but instigating conflict between Ling Qi and anyone SHOULD count as hurting Ling Qi.

And the friendly advice was that she will get better options for marriage later. Friendly advice about political marriages is still about political marriages even if they are friendly advice. LQ has as mentioned time, she will get more valuable the higher she climbs so anything will still be decades away probably, there is no need for a hard push from CRX yet. It is why CRX advices her to keep the Bao dialogue option open, because it is a good option for the Cai. The whole "It is clear that they wish to tie themselves closer to the Cai" thing. Marriage for LQ is a political consideration for CRX and the Cai, even if it is more CRX responsibility then Shenua, even if the pushing so far as only taken the form of something like "wait and keep the line open to any atleast this high of a rank and usefulness".

Your words where "Shenhua doesn't care much about marrying for political reasons, and I doubt CRX does either" and now Shenhua "had to" marry and CRX will only considers political reasons when marrying. Which one is it? They can not both not care for it and care for it. They are a ducal clan, most ducal clans have to care about stuff like this (Zheng is the exception, but they got a whole different culture).

Also yes her husband is a Diao. Same clan as her lover that.
Really the big thing being missed there is...your liege cannot compel you to form a specific alliance, thats why you're a feudal vassal, not adopted into your liege's clan. They might exert a variety of pressures, but its never appreciated.

Renxiang is essentially giving advice delimited by that quality. She can mention common wisdom on the matter, state the need for perpetuation of her clan, or suggest that a certain clan would be a beneficial ally, but anything more than that would be crossing lines.
Meizhen and Xiulan on the other hand can be more direct as friends without any direct chain of command boundaries. That said I'd probably not go to either for romantic advice for obvious reasons...
 
Theres only one degree of separation: if the spirit is influencing Qingge to give advice that would hurt Ling Qi because Ling Qi may act on the bad advice, then it counts. It would not care if it influenced Qingge to hurt Xuan Shi, but instigating conflict between Ling Qi and anyone SHOULD count as hurting Ling Qi.


Really the big thing being missed there is...your liege cannot compel you to form a specific alliance, thats why you're a feudal vassal, not adopted into your liege's clan. They might exert a variety of pressures, but its never appreciated.

Renxiang is essentially giving advice delimited by that quality. She can mention common wisdom on the matter, state the need for perpetuation of her clan, or suggest that a certain clan would be a beneficial ally, but anything more than that would be crossing lines.
Meizhen and Xiulan on the other hand can be more direct as friends without any direct chain of command boundaries. That said I'd probably not go to either for romantic advice for obvious reasons...
Hey now that I think about it what do we know about Renxiang's father? Did we ever get a meeting or talk about him?
 
Really the big thing being missed there is...your liege cannot compel you to form a specific alliance, thats why you're a feudal vassal, not adopted into your liege's clan. They might exert a variety of pressures, but its never appreciated.

Renxiang is essentially giving advice delimited by that quality. She can mention common wisdom on the matter, state the need for perpetuation of her clan, or suggest that a certain clan would be a beneficial ally, but anything more than that would be crossing lines.
While this is true in general for a liege-vassal relationship, I disagree that it is true for Ling Qi's specific situation. The reason a vassal can't be compelled to do something like that is because in a feudal system the vassal has an established power base of their own. If Shenhua tried to force, for example, the Bao to make an alliance like that she'd have to deal with the fact they are strong enough to actually fight her. They'd likely get stomped if they tried but it would cost Shenhua to do it. So there are lines that both sides will not cross, but they only exist because they are backed up by force.

Ling Qi, in contrast, has no vassals, no clan members, no fief or significant income and no way to rectify that without Cai support. The power disparity means that Shenhua or CRX could force Ling Qi into a marriage if they really wanted to and were willing to bear the cost of alienating her. If they made getting a decent fief, help feeding Zhengui, and support for cultivation contingent on marrying someone of their choice Ling Qi's choices are to essentially give up on reaching the higher realms, go rogue, or give in. This could be handled quietly, but even if it got out and offended the other clans sensibilities it wouldn't matter. While they might not appreciate the move, no clan is going to burn political capital opposing the Cai for a new single cultivator clan.
 
While this is true in general for a liege-vassal relationship, I disagree that it is true for Ling Qi's specific situation. The reason a vassal can't be compelled to do something like that is because in a feudal system the vassal has an established power base of their own. If Shenhua tried to force, for example, the Bao to make an alliance like that she'd have to deal with the fact they are strong enough to actually fight her. They'd likely get stomped if they tried but it would cost Shenhua to do it. So there are lines that both sides will not cross, but they only exist because they are backed up by force.

Ling Qi, in contrast, has no vassals, no clan members, no fief or significant income and no way to rectify that without Cai support. The power disparity means that Shenhua or CRX could force Ling Qi into a marriage if they really wanted to and were willing to bear the cost of alienating her. If they made getting a decent fief, help feeding Zhengui, and support for cultivation contingent on marrying someone of their choice Ling Qi's choices are to essentially give up on reaching the higher realms, go rogue, or give in. This could be handled quietly, but even if it got out and offended the other clans sensibilities it wouldn't matter. While they might not appreciate the move, no clan is going to burn political capital opposing the Cai for a new single cultivator clan.
Thing is, if Shenhua or CRX decide to force Ling Qi to marry, every clan is going to ask "when will they do that to us?", they might not get up in arms, but it would instantly make them more suspicious, less willing to deal, and working to find ways to undermine Ducal authority over them.
Forcing Ling Qi to marry would have very minor short term costs, but over long enough period, it is unlikely that an alliance from asingle marriage to a low ranked vassal would be wroth the long term costs.

Also, note how Ling Qi has 3 options, and only one of them is "do as told", not a good bet, especially with someone like Ling Qi who has a proven track record of noping out of situations like that.
There is also a 4th option, join another house, wether any other house would take her is up in the air, but i would not consider it impossible for Ling Qi to find patronage from somewhere else.
Assuming she does not just nope out and become a moon spirit or something.
 
Thing is, if Shenhua or CRX decide to force Ling Qi to marry, every clan is going to ask "when will they do that to us?", they might not get up in arms, but it would instantly make them more suspicious, less willing to deal, and working to find ways to undermine Ducal authority over them.
Forcing Ling Qi to marry would have very minor short term costs, but over long enough period, it is unlikely that an alliance from asingle marriage to a low ranked vassal would be wroth the long term costs.

Also, note how Ling Qi has 3 options, and only one of them is "do as told", not a good bet, especially with someone like Ling Qi who has a proven track record of noping out of situations like that.
There is also a 4th option, join another house, wether any other house would take her is up in the air, but i would not consider it impossible for Ling Qi to find patronage from somewhere else.
Assuming she does not just nope out and become a moon spirit or something.
It would definitely have consequences and the trade off may not be worth it depending on how much the other vassals react, although I doubt the extent that established clans with centuries to millennia of history would consider Ling Qi one of them. I was referring specifically to the fact that the Cai have the authority to do it and are only limited by their view of the costs/benefits.

Similarly, I am not saying Ling Qi can't avoid being forced into marriage but rather that the Cai could attempt to force her to marry how they wanted. If they do so then, unless Ling Qi accepts serious limits on her growth, she can only avoid it by no longer being a vassal of the Cai. Joining another house would potentially be an option if Ling Qi chose that but being a vassal is a legal arrangement. At this point it's not as simple as just joining a different clan, it would require them to want Ling Qi enough to feud with the Cai over her.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Jun 3, 2020 at 1:04 PM, finished with 318 posts and 98 votes.
 
It would definitely have consequences and the trade off may not be worth it depending on how much the other vassals react, although I doubt the extent that established clans with centuries to millennia of history would consider Ling Qi one of them. I was referring specifically to the fact that the Cai have the authority to do it and are only limited by their view of the costs/benefits.

Similarly, I am not saying Ling Qi can't avoid being forced into marriage but rather that the Cai could attempt to force her to marry how they wanted. If they do so then, unless Ling Qi accepts serious limits on her growth, she can only avoid it by no longer being a vassal of the Cai. Joining another house would potentially be an option if Ling Qi chose that but being a vassal is a legal arrangement. At this point it's not as simple as just joining a different clan, it would require them to want Ling Qi enough to feud with the Cai over her.
Ingroup/outgroup can be conditional.
Normally Ling Qi is an arrogant upstart who does not know her place.
But the second Shenhua starts to enroach on clan rights, well then suddenly Ling Qi is just the first of them to fall victim to the tyrant, because upstart or no, she is a fellow vassal, and leaving fellow vassals to fall without some cause, risks it happening to you next.
And as i said, i doubt the clans would actually do anything, not worth the risk, the costs would be lot subtler and longer lasting.

As for joining a different clan, it would be costly, but Ling qi is not that important, so Cai's are unlikely to raise a huge fuss over it, she is not worth it, but at the same time Ling Qi would have to provide something to the new clan, and it would have to be a clan who wants to annoy the Cai's, or are willing to pay the Cai of in some way to9 get Ling Qi.
As a rising star, Ling Qi might, might, be worth it, but by no means a certain bet.
 
While they might not appreciate the move, no clan is going to burn political capital opposing the Cai for a new single cultivator clan.
They wouldn't be doing it for Ling Qi, they'd be using Ling Qi as a political pawn to attack the Cai's control over them in a way that only incidentally helps Ling Qi. None of Cai's other vassals will want people getting used to the idea of Cai exerting unwanted influence, even in a trivial case, and it could potentially serve as a means to attack Cai's already existing forms of influence.
 
Assuming she does not just nope out and become a moon spirit or something.

One of her formative experiences is noping out of a similar experience (the trauma of which is why she's so skittish about this). She is far more self-sufficient now. The potential loss of her family would hurt a lot, of course.

It would also drastically slow her cultivation. However SSC does give her a bunch of rewards for acting like the moon wants her to and she is much better at dealing with spirits as a peer or a weaker partner than most Imperial cultivators are. By end of Green (and I sincerely doubt that CRX would ever force her to marry before Cyan as that seems like an easy way to boost Ling Qi's marriage value) she will also be able to create her own Arts from nothing.

She's honestly not in bad shape to up and run away if people try to force her to do something. It would hurt but it is an option for her.

Of course this is all besides the point as Ling Qi's main value to CRX is as a retainer, not as someone who can be married off. As long as she doesn't try to marry someone from the Sun or their allies she is probably fine. And, if she does, her husband's family would definitely take her in to spite the Cai.
 
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Ling Qi is also pretty tight with 3/8ths of the Moon, and only Bloody has shown any actual antipathy towards her, so it's not like she does not have potential allies, no matter how hands of they might be.
 
As for joining a different clan, it would be costly, but Ling qi is not that important, so Cai's are unlikely to raise a huge fuss over it, she is not worth it, but at the same time Ling Qi would have to provide something to the new clan, and it would have to be a clan who wants to annoy the Cai's, or are willing to pay the Cai of in some way to9 get Ling Qi.
As a rising star, Ling Qi might, might, be worth it, but by no means a certain bet.
The issue is that Ling Qi is legally a vassal of the Cai, who are all about law and order, so she can't just leave to join a different clan without it being a threat to Shenhua's authority. If the Cai felt strongly enough about this hypothetical marriage that they were forcing Ling Qi to do it, with all the negatives that entails, they would certainly demand a lot in return for calling off their plans. I don't think it would be as simple as just paying the Cai off, and anyone with sense thinks very carefully about deliberately annoying a White cultivator, particularly one with Shenhua's reputation.

They wouldn't be doing it for Ling Qi, they'd be using Ling Qi as a political pawn to attack the Cai's control over them in a way that only incidentally helps Ling Qi. None of Cai's other vassals will want people getting used to the idea of Cai exerting unwanted influence, even in a trivial case, and it could potentially serve as a means to attack Cai's already existing forms of influence.
They could oppose it, kick up a bug fuss, and demand concessions later but, if Shenhua was determined, they couldn't stop it without directly challenging her right to manage her own vassals. To do that they'd really need a coalition of most of the Emerald Seas or outside ducal/imperial support which would have enormous consequences. I was a bit too broad in saying no one would burn political capital for Ling Qi, but there is no way it would be enough if Shenhua tried to force the issue.
 
The issue is that Ling Qi is legally a vassal of the Cai, who are all about law and order, so she can't just leave to join a different clan without it being a threat to Shenhua's authority. If the Cai felt strongly enough about this hypothetical marriage that they were forcing Ling Qi to do it, with all the negatives that entails, they would certainly demand a lot in return for calling off their plans. I don't think it would be as simple as just paying the Cai off, and anyone with sense thinks very carefully about deliberately annoying a White cultivator, particularly one with Shenhua's reputation.


They could oppose it, kick up a bug fuss, and demand concessions later but, if Shenhua was determined, they couldn't stop it without directly challenging her right to manage her own vassals. To do that they'd really need a coalition of most of the Emerald Seas or outside ducal/imperial support which would have enormous consequences. I was a bit too broad in saying no one would burn political capital for Ling Qi, but there is no way it would be enough if Shenhua tried to force the issue.
They would not stop it, but they would react to it, because it would be a direct attack on them.

As for the law and order thing, Shenhua is also pretty big against corruption and abuse, and this would be an abuse of power, so something freaky would be going on. And Sun was originally a Bai vassal, so it's not like there are not precedents for vassals leaving to join another clan.
 
They would not stop it, but they would react to it, because it would be a direct attack on them.

As for the law and order thing, Shenhua is also pretty big against corruption and abuse, and this would be an abuse of power, so something freaky would be going on. And Sun was originally a Bai vassal, so it's not like there are not precedents for vassals leaving to join another clan.
It would be an attack on Ling Qi's freedoms but very much an indirect attack on them at worst. I don't think this would be an abuse of power, at least not in Shenhua's eyes. As duke she has the power to distribute resources however she feels best helps the province, and if Ling Qi won't obey her on an important issue Shenhua will find some other use for those resources.
 
It would be an attack on Ling Qi's freedoms but very much an indirect attack on them at worst. I don't think this would be an abuse of power, at least not in Shenhua's eyes. As duke she has the power to distribute resources however she feels best helps the province, and if Ling Qi won't obey her on an important issue Shenhua will find some other use for those resources.
Yes, it would be an indirect attack, which is why they would not be taking up arms, but would find other ways to oppose Shenhua.
 
As a retainer of the Cai, LQ is expected to do her utmost to help the Cai achieve their political and economic goals in exchange for the support they give to her and the Ling Clan. Since marriage is viewed by the Empire's nobility as a way to build a power base and advance political goals, it seems that this includes marrying a member of a suitable clan. This could be someone suggested by the Cai or someone that LQ finds on her own that the Cai approve of. If LQ refuses to marry a suitable candidate, I'd assume that Shenhua would no longer consider her retainer material and would reduce the amount of material and political support given to the Ling Clan accordingly. There's no need for Shenhua to piss off all of her vassals by forcing a marriage on LQ, she'll just quietly demote LQ from her retainer position and find another prodigy or loyal clan head who is willing to marry for politics in exchange for retainership. LQ isn't particularly special after all, she was just in the right place at the right time.
 
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I think Ling Qi is special, luck is as good as skill in lot of ways, and she does have powerful patrons (how many cultivators can say they have drawn the attention of a great spirit before hitting Red?).
But it is a big province, and even bigger empire, special people are not rare.
And given that cultivators can live for several centuries, i doubt it would be worth it to force the issue of marriage with a promising cultivator who is only getting more valuable over time.
 
A different topic I've been wondering about, given the recent discussions around Zhengui, is how long do spirit beasts live and what is considered a good cultivation speed? I've been assuming that a xuan wu would naturally live longer than a human of similar stage cultivation, and that the Living Isle (and presumably other Sublime Ancestors) ascended over thousands of years rather than hundreds like human cultivators. If so I would assume most spirit beasts progress slowly compared to humans, otherwise it seems like there would be more Sublime Ancestors given the number of humans who ascended to great spirits in the same time frame. If that's the case Zhengui's issues with not keeping up with Ling Qi will eventually be unavoidable. Or can they progress quickly and it's just that it's extremely rare for spirit beasts to progress past certain bottlenecks even with imperial help?
 
A different topic I've been wondering about, given the recent discussions around Zhengui, is how long do spirit beasts live and what is considered a good cultivation speed? I've been assuming that a xuan wu would naturally live longer than a human of similar stage cultivation, and that the Living Isle (and presumably other Sublime Ancestors) ascended over thousands of years rather than hundreds like human cultivators. If so I would assume most spirit beasts progress slowly compared to humans, otherwise it seems like there would be more Sublime Ancestors given the number of humans who ascended to great spirits in the same time frame. If that's the case Zhengui's issues with not keeping up with Ling Qi will eventually be unavoidable. Or can they progress quickly and it's just that it's extremely rare for spirit beasts to progress past certain bottlenecks even with imperial help?

Being bound to us likely drastically improves his cultivation rate and that's before SSC increases it due to our close bond.
 
I hope that it isn't considered snakeposting if I divide 3 posts made by the same person about the same subject in order to answer them each in turn. If it does, I apologise in advance and I will correct it, but as they are different posts, I don't see why it would be snakeposting.

While this is true in general for a liege-vassal relationship, I disagree that it is true for Ling Qi's specific situation. The reason a vassal can't be compelled to do something like that is because in a feudal system the vassal has an established power base of their own. If Shenhua tried to force, for example, the Bao to make an alliance like that she'd have to deal with the fact they are strong enough to actually fight her. They'd likely get stomped if they tried but it would cost Shenhua to do it. So there are lines that both sides will not cross, but they only exist because they are backed up by force.

Ling Qi, in contrast, has no vassals, no clan members, no fief or significant income and no way to rectify that without Cai support. The power disparity means that Shenhua or CRX could force Ling Qi into a marriage if they really wanted to and were willing to bear the cost of alienating her. If they made getting a decent fief, help feeding Zhengui, and support for cultivation contingent on marrying someone of their choice Ling Qi's choices are to essentially give up on reaching the higher realms, go rogue, or give in. This could be handled quietly, but even if it got out and offended the other clans sensibilities it wouldn't matter. While they might not appreciate the move, no clan is going to burn political capital opposing the Cai for a new single cultivator clan.

First of all, in a cultivation world, one's foremost power base is their cultivation base. The reason Barons are given fiefs and there is an extensive system of cultivation social mobility is because people already have what, in universe, can be considered a power base. True, a green Baron without a family or soldiers has a weaker and shakier power base than the average Baro and a green or cyan could do nothing if Shenhua wanted them gone, I felt it was important to point out how differently power bases work in this universe to state that no, Ling Qi is not different than most Barons, in fact, when she reaches Cyan she'll have a stronger power base than most. (not necessarily a firmer one mind you, until family circumstances can be replicated even a ducal family is shaky... yes, I am stating that the Cais are hella shaky, as they may not outlive Shenhua.)

And this is exactly the powerbase that made CRX want to finance Ling Qi. CRX did not pick Ling Qi out of charity, she picked her because of her powerbase being exceptional among non established barons. The reason she goes overboard in financing her is exactly because she considers her valuable. So, to an extent, Ling Qi has a better negotiating position than most Barons because her powerbase seems better. At least, until/unless she starts to stall out in cultivation. Mind you, our liege still negotiates from a position of strength, but lieges always do so. The fact she gives us a lot means we are a good enough investment that ourloyalty is valuable, however, not that we are dependent on a charity she may withdraw at any point.

The issue is that Ling Qi is legally a vassal of the Cai, who are all about law and order, so she can't just leave to join a different clan without it being a threat to Shenhua's authority. If the Cai felt strongly enough about this hypothetical marriage that they were forcing Ling Qi to do it, with all the negatives that entails, they would certainly demand a lot in return for calling off their plans. I don't think it would be as simple as just paying the Cai off, and anyone with sense thinks very carefully about deliberately annoying a White cultivator, particularly one with Shenhua's reputation.


They could oppose it, kick up a bug fuss, and demand concessions later but, if Shenhua was determined, they couldn't stop it without directly challenging her right to manage her own vassals. To do that they'd really need a coalition of most of the Emerald Seas or outside ducal/imperial support which would have enormous consequences. I was a bit too broad in saying no one would burn political capital for Ling Qi, but there is no way it would be enough if Shenhua tried to force the issue.

Ling Qi is legally a vassal of CRX in particular, not the Cai in general. That is an important distinction. It means CRX has to punish us if we leave, not Shenhua, who likely wouldn't interfere and just jot that as a lack mark against CRX.

You are also understating how much noility cares about predecent. Forcing us to marry could kick up fuss even in different ducal famillies who want to reassure their vessels that no, they won't overreach like that, never mind just in Shenhua's province.

It would be an attack on Ling Qi's freedoms but very much an indirect attack on them at worst. I don't think this would be an abuse of power, at least not in Shenhua's eyes. As duke she has the power to distribute resources however she feels best helps the province, and if Ling Qi won't obey her on an important issue Shenhua will find some other use for those resources.

Again, Shenhua is not Ling Qi's liege, she is CRX's and the count clan's liege. Its CRX who would redistribute her resources, and I doubt she will do it unless she finds retainers more talented than Ling Qi because she is not in a position to, especially now that she has a sister.

All those things said, I still am loyal to CRX and do not think she'll force us to marry or that she is the kind of person that would violate vassal rights unless they result in blatant injustice. I am just saying that we aren't her pawn, or any chess piece for that matter, we are much closer to being one of her ministers compared to a high minister or a president, she has rank, power, money and control over us, but not really to an absolute extent, and we aren't big enough to jump ship and make it on our own, but we are big enough to jump on another ship if we maneuer correctly, allthough it would be assholish and somewhat perilous.

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As a retainer of the Cai, LQ is expected to do her utmost to help the Cai achieve their political and economic goals in exchange for the support they give to her and the Ling Clan. Since marriage is viewed by the Empire's nobility as a way to build a power base and advance political goals, it seems that this includes marrying a member of a suitable clan. This could be someone suggested by the Cai or someone that LQ finds on her own that the Cai approve of. If LQ refuses to marry a suitable candidate, I'd assume that Shenhua would no longer consider her retainer material and would reduce the amount of material and political support given to the Ling Clan accordingly. There's no need for Shenhua to piss off all of her vassals by forcing a marriage on LQ, she'll just quietly demote LQ from her retainer position and find another prodigy or loyal clan head who is willing to marry for politics in exchange for retainership. LQ isn't particularly special after all, she was just in the right place at the right time.

Retainers are not slaves or extentions of one's will, they are loyal enforcers and/or advisors. Not even elder Jiao had his marriage dictated by his liege, and he was much, much more loyal and close to him and married a political dead end (a spirit)
 
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Vassallage is a two way road.
When a liege starts to ask too much of their vassals, the vassals start to wonder how to replace that liege.
Even peasants have, in theory, obligations they are owed by their king, and while a king may abuse their peasants (probably not directly, there's plenty of layers between a king and average peasant), they can do it only so long, and take it only far, until a revolt happens.
 
Retainers are not slaves or extentions of one's will, they are loyal enforcers and/or advisors. Not even elder Jiao had his marriage dictated by his liege, and he was much, much more loyal and close to him and married a political dead end (a spirit)

Yep.

In a way, we wear two different hats in this situation.

Baroness Ling is the personal retainer of Lady Cai.

Clan Head Qi of the Ling is a different entity, if a much weaker one, and I don't really believe that Renxiang will interfere with our Clan affairs so long as we fulfill our obligations.

Who we produce a Clan with is irrelevant to her unless were fraternizing with the enemy. That we produce a Clan is important to her.
 
Just to be clear, because I think people are misunderstanding my position, I am not saying that CRX would actually force us to do this or that it would be a remotely good decision on their part, just that in a feudal system the Cai have that power, provided they can stomach the consequences, unless someone actually fights them over it.

First of all, in a cultivation world, one's foremost power base is their cultivation base. The reason Barons are given fiefs and there is an extensive system of cultivation social mobility is because people already have what, in universe, can be considered a power base. True, a green Baron without a family or soldiers has a weaker and shakier power base than the average Baro and a green or cyan could do nothing if Shenhua wanted them gone, I felt it was important to point out how differently power bases work in this universe to state that no, Ling Qi is not different than most Barons, in fact, when she reaches Cyan she'll have a stronger power base than most. (not necessarily a firmer one mind you, until family circumstances can be replicated even a ducal family is shaky... yes, I am stating that the Cais are hella shaky, as they may not outlive Shenhua.)

And this is exactly the powerbase that made CRX want to finance Ling Qi. CRX did not pick Ling Qi out of charity, she picked her because of her powerbase being exceptional among non established barons. The reason she goes overboard in financing her is exactly because she considers her valuable. So, to an extent, Ling Qi has a better negotiating position than most Barons because her powerbase seems better. At least, until/unless she starts to stall out in cultivation. Mind you, our liege still negotiates from a position of strength, but lieges always do so. The fact she gives us a lot means we are a good enough investment that ourloyalty is valuable, however, not that we are dependent on a charity she may withdraw at any point.

In a cultivation world one's personal power depends on their cultivation, but a clans power is not as simple. The powerful clans don't just rely on individual cultivation but hoarded talismans/techniques, pacts with powerful spirits, and alliances with other clans. Ling Qi is different from other Barons because she has not had time to start building up those things, and cannot do so currently without Cai help. That will change over time but Ling Qi is not equal to established Barons at the moment. It's not about being dependent on charity, it's that the Ling clan only exists on paper at this point and until Ling Qi actually has a fief and a way to meet her expenses that is leverage over her in any negotiation with the Cai.

Ling Qi is legally a vassal of CRX in particular, not the Cai in general. That is an important distinction. It means CRX has to punish us if we leave, not Shenhua, who likely wouldn't interfere and just jot that as a lack mark against CRX.

You are also understating how much noility cares about predecent. Forcing us to marry could kick up fuss even in different ducal famillies who want to reassure their vessels that no, they won't overreach like that, never mind just in Shenhua's province.

Again, Shenhua is not Ling Qi's liege, she is CRX's and the count clan's liege. Its CRX who would redistribute her resources, and I doubt she will do it unless she finds retainers more talented than Ling Qi because she is not in a position to, especially now that she has a sister.

All those things said, I still am loyal to CRX and do not think she'll force us to marry or that she is the kind of person that would violate vassal rights unless they result in blatant injustice. I am just saying that we aren't her pawn, or any chess piece for that matter, we are much closer to being one of her ministers compared to a high minister or a president, she has rank, power, money and control over us, but not really to an absolute extent, and we aren't big enough to jump ship and make it on our own, but we are big enough to jump on another ship if we maneuer correctly, allthough it would be assholish and somewhat perilous.

I do not see how Ling Qi being a vassal to CRX rather than Shenhua directly is an important distinction. If Ling Qi left like that it is an insult against the Cai in general, not just CRX, and if CRX can't punish us it falls on Shenhua to protect the family's dignity. Similarly with resources, CRX may give things to us, but they all stem from Shenhua. When I say redistributing resources I'm talking about things like available land, access to limited numbers of high level spirit stones, use of things like Shenhua's White Room, etc. CRX doesn't get to decide those sorts of things without oversight, even for her own retainer.

I understand that precedent is a big deal to the nobility but I seriously doubt it would garner that much attention if the Cai tried to pressure a new clan into a politically advantageous marriage. Particularly given the consequences of Ling Qi disobeying would just be her not getting better treatment than most Barons could expect. Also given the way some of Ling Qi's noble peers have reacted to her and the general disunity of the Emerald Seas I think it unlikely there'd be much of a reaction. The way the Empire functions varies from province to province, and even within the Emerald Seas individual clans, like Alingge's for example, are treated differently. Having one rule for a weaker clan and another for the strong just seems like par for the course in a system founded on might makes right, and I'm sceptical that something like that would even be considered unjust this universe.

I don't think we are CRX's pawns or that she would treat us in that way, just that she has a lot of leverage over us. If she decided to go all out to try and force Ling Qi to do something then (assuming slowing down isn't an option for Ling Qi) the only choices are to accept or try to wriggle out from under her thumb, which given the presumably airtight Cai vassalage contract, is easier said than done.
 
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