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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Anyway, the thing I found super interesting about this update when it was released to Patreon was here:
yrsillar said:
Those who do make such achievements, who advance knowledge of the craft such that any might benefit from it, rather than only kith and clan, we honor with the name Grandmaster. However, many, many effects simply lie beyond the abilities of any who do not have not formed their second dantian and refined their qi into shen. Qi alone is not enough to imprint coherently the intricate webs of energy which power and instruct the effects of the greatest of arrays. Of those masters who achieve the highest realms and attain Sovereignty, I will not even speak. Their works are beyond any price, and utterly irreplaceable. This humble scholar would not dare to intimate that he has knowledge of such things.
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It is possibly that Sovereignty is the name for what shen refines into in the upper/third dantian, but that would be weird on two separate meta levels: first of all, the sources I could find on Chinese traditional medicine, if they refer to another thing after shen, call it wu wei or wuji, neither of which translate to Sovereignty, and second of all it would be strange to go from lowercased Chinese words to an uppercased English word. Instead, I think Sovereignty is the third thing in the progression after Domain and Way.
 
I don't think it's the same as shen, because it wouldn't fit the naming scheme. qi, shen, ???

Instead, I think it's a Domain successor. Domain, ?Way?, Sovereignty.

Anyone can hold a Domain, it takes true Royalty however to clearly claim sovereignty over all they survey. Which seems fitting for a Domain successor.
 
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Alectai said:
I don't think it's the same as shen, because it wouldn't fit the naming scheme. qi, shen, ???

Instead, I think it's a Domain successor. Domain, ?Way?, Sovereignty.

Anyone can hold a Domain, it takes true Royalty however to clearly claim sovereignty over all they survey. Which seems fitting for a Domain successor.
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...yes, Alectai, that's what I said :p
picklepikkl said:
It is possibly that Sovereignty is the name for what shen refines into in the upper/third dantian, but that would be weird on two separate meta levels: first of all, the sources I could find on Chinese traditional medicine, if they refer to another thing after shen, call it wu wei or wuji, neither of which translate to Sovereignty, and second of all it would be strange to go from lowercased Chinese words to an uppercased English word. Instead, I think Sovereignty is the third thing in the progression after Domain and Way.
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Alectai said:
Yep.

Setting mechanics are such that the real key towards modernizing and industrializing is effectively establishing a full out Cultivation System that supports the practice, which requires an awful lot of people trading notes and establishing a common baseline that future people build on, so that you can lead on that common foundation to drive development.

This was kind of the first step in that direction, and it got purged because the Empire has massive trauma regarding people finding this One Neat Trick that breaks the bellcurve.

(And also, entrenched interests probably also see where this could go and don't want to lose their monopolies, so they lean on the officials to outlaw it).
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My belief is that it was less "they saw where it was going" and more "It was already hurting their interests" by the time they moved against it.
 
Well, Bai, Zheng, Xuan and Guo seem to already have province-wide unified crafting schools.

It really helps in developing things, and greatly hinders unifying further than that.
 
storryeater said:
The more I learn about what the Celestial Peaks deem illegal, the more I want revolution.

CRX just needs some character development, and she'll be much better. Hopefully, the guesses about her father having royal blood is correct.
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Gonna be frank.

Imperial houses explicitly hold their seat as long as no one can take it from them. Our province is basically a backwater, made so in large part because of it's many civil wars and it being a border province with hostile neighbors.

We aren't really in a place to challenge them. We might never reach such a position.
They'd have to screw up so badly as to turn nearly all of the ducal houses against them, which is theoretically possible, but unlikely.

Basically? We'd need to bank on the imperial house being completely incompetent to launch a successful rebellion. Doesn't seem like a safe bet to me.
 
angelofwhim said:
Tl; Dr closely, why outlawed/illegal?
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In addition to other things mentioned, the closing lines have some eerie parallels with early communist philosophy. I wouldn't be surprised if some members of said sect started making noises about being oppressed/exploited and calling for reform and/or revolution, which naturally would have had the Imperials coming down on them like a ton of bricks and censoring the heck out of their writings/ideology.
 
Asael said:
Gonna be frank.

Imperial houses explicitly hold their seat as long as no one can take it from them. Our province is basically a backwater, made so in large part because of it's many civil wars and it being a border province with hostile neighbors.

We aren't really in a place to challenge them. We might never reach such a position.
They'd have to screw up so badly as to turn nearly all of the ducal houses against them, which is theoretically possible, but unlikely.

Basically? We'd need to bank on the imperial house being completely incompetent to launch a successful rebellion. Doesn't seem like a safe bet to me.
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You aren't thinking with cultivation. One's greatest resource is their Sublime Ancestor(s). One's second greatest, their geniuses. Everything else is tertiary. It is fully possible (note: not easy) to overturn it if, say, our province suddenly has 2 allied Whites that are politically interested, even if they have no other ally. If we become really good in the social game, a White may not even be needed as long as we give certain concessions to the clan.

I am not advocating for it to happen if its out of character, but I am saying that its possible within the series scope. Besides, there have to be challenges once we reach Prism or White, or it'll get boring.
 
picklepikkl said:
Anyway, the thing I found super interesting about this update when it was released to Patreon was here:

It is possibly that Sovereignty is the name for what shen refines into in the upper/third dantian, but that would be weird on two separate meta levels: first of all, the sources I could find on Chinese traditional medicine, if they refer to another thing after shen, call it wu wei or wuji, neither of which translate to Sovereignty, and second of all it would be strange to go from lowercased Chinese words to an uppercased English word. Instead, I think Sovereignty is the third thing in the progression after Domain and Way.
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Qi - Breath, the vital force, the body.
Shen - Awareness/Divinity, the mind.
??? - ???

You need Qi because it sustains your very existence, without the roots, the flower withers.
Shen...probably would be an dream metaphor, you no longer are a dreaming bundle of instincts and memories, you're Awake and aware of the truth of reality.


I don't think Wu Wei would fit Imperial Cultivation. It has too much seizing control of your self and environment to fit. Wu Wei is the terminus of a route which functions through understanding the world's mechanisms, manipulating the mechanisms through knowledge and then finally, having become one with the world, its will is your will and your will is its will.

Not when Imperial Cultivation is heavily about defining what is Me and what is Not Me.
 
storryeater said:
You aren't thinking with cultivation. One's greatest resource is their Sublime Ancestor(s). One's second greatest, their geniuses. Everything else is tertiary. It is fully possible (note: not easy) to overturn it if, say, our province suddenly has 2 allied Whites that are politically interested, even if they have no other ally. If we become really good in the social game, a White may not even be needed as long as we give certain concessions to the clan.

I am not advocating for it to happen if its out of character, but I am saying that its possible within the series scope. Besides, there have to be challenges once we reach Prism or White, or it'll get boring.
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I am though. Stable territories have high population, and on average, more cultivators.

Which gives them more chances at getting those geniuses.
The empress almost certainly has a larger, stronger army than any one province, and Sun currently side with her.
And as a reminder, the Sun have an army entirely made of third realm cultivators. Frankly, the empresses position is untouchable.

Whites rarely take the field. Mainly because they cause long term fallout in anything resembling actual battle. A reminder that the sects head left permanent lightning storms from his battle against Ogedei, and he was viridian or prism at the time.
 
Sovreignity send to me to be the step that a white takes to become an sidestory spirit- and since the lack of such spirits is the big reason other cultivators aren't competitive with the empire then any hints on how to grow to that level would be very restricted. Being that's why the bronze hammers got banned.
 
veekie said:
Qi - Breath, the vital force, the body.
Shen - Awareness/Divinity, the mind.
??? - ???

You need Qi because it sustains your very existence, without the roots, the flower withers.
Shen...probably would be an dream metaphor, you no longer are a dreaming bundle of instincts and memories, you're Awake and aware of the truth of reality.


I don't think Wu Wei would fit Imperial Cultivation. It has too much seizing control of your self and environment to fit. Wu Wei is the terminus of a route which functions through understanding the world's mechanisms, manipulating the mechanisms through knowledge and then finally, having become one with the world, its will is your will and your will is its will.

Not when Imperial Cultivation is heavily about defining what is Me and what is Not Me.
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oh so Wu Wei is approaching transcendent cohesion and continuity of self-as-world-as-self
so what you're saying is that Imperial Cultivation is a system that is almost by-nature designed to assist in the defining of Cultivation Way and Domain but never Sovereignty? Gee, I wonder if that was intentional on their part lolololol

I am a little floored to learn that these concepts fit so nicely with my concepts of when-least-tethered to reality. It gives fuel to the fires of how I believe Dreaming Moon and Six are going to be treated though <3 I am now convinced more than ever that we should begin investing in Formation-craft as soon as it becomes a creative-art boosted by our cultivation. Probably something we start cooking now and doesn't pay off until book 3 but like. When we're at our holding we'll want to be able to leave our marks all across our holdings. I still think little crescent grin faces with one gibbous shaped eye and the hair covering the other eye would be ideal little tags for us
 
JowKeen said:
oh so Wu Wei is approaching transcendent cohesion and continuity of self-as-world-as-self
so what you're saying is that Imperial Cultivation is a system that is almost by-nature designed to assist in the defining of Cultivation Way and Domain but never Sovereignty? Gee, I wonder if that was intentional on their part lolololol
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Well, Imperial Cultivation is based off cultivating to be more like spirits, where the supremacy of your Will over reality is paramount, so it seems the ultimate end state of Great Spirit ascension is departure from the world aside from an ultimately regional(we have confirmation that a Great Spirit's influence has geographical limits) impression on the world.

Wu Wei...isn't really going to take off in a deathworld really. Not except in hermits, since the will of the world seems to be a loudly expressed "Fuck You"
 
so you're saying you don't believe this world uses traditional Wu Wei? or are you saying that if Whites are practicing Wu Wei they would have to also be a loudly expressed "fuck you" but in tune with the world in such a way that it's the fabric? or is wu wei completely incompatible with the idea of "fcuk u" lol
 
yrsillar said:
Sorry guys, holiday stuffs means I haven't quite managed to finish the update in a satisfactory form today. Will finish as soon as possible tho. Happy Hols everyone
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Personally, I wouldn't expect an update from anyone during the holidays. They are holidays because workers rest, after all. So I do not think apologies are needed.

Merry Christmas everybody.
 
JowKeen said:
so you're saying you don't believe this world uses traditional Wu Wei? or are you saying that if Whites are practicing Wu Wei they would have to also be a loudly expressed "fuck you" but in tune with the world in such a way that it's the fabric? or is wu wei completely incompatible with the idea of "fcuk u" lol
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Wu Wei is fundamentally trusting that the world is beneficent, that all conflict, loss and harm arises from individuals moving against the flow of destiny, knowingly and unknowingly. Thus the two elements are to Know what your place in the world is, and the other half is to accept your place in it, and the final form is Wu Wei, you no longer need to differentiate between Your Choice and What The World Needs You To Do, they are one and the same.
In doing so, everything will go right, you do the Right Thing At The Right Time, so luck is removed as a factor, only success lies ahead.

I don't think Wu Wei as a philosophy could have arose yet. Its however, surprisingly likely to arise under Shenhua's rule, replacing World with Shenhua.
 
veekie said:
you no longer need to differentiate between Your Choice and What The World Needs You To Do, they are one and the same.
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That does, in fact, sound kind of like what high-level cultivators become, insofar as we've repeatedly heard that they're kind of... elemental in how they function, such that they aren't really capable of going outside the parameters of the conceptual structure they've defined for themselves. Action/existence without need for thought or will, because all their being is in accordance with their Way(/Domain/Sovereignty?).

What do other xianxia works have above shen?
 
picklepikkl said:
That does, in fact, sound kind of like what high-level cultivators become, insofar as we've repeatedly heard that they're kind of... elemental in how they function, such that they aren't really capable of going outside the parameters of the conceptual structure they've defined for themselves. Action/existence without need for thought or will, because all their being is in accordance with their Way(/Domain/Sovereignty?).

What do other xianxia works have above shen?
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Wrong way round is the problem. Wu Wei is about surrender, high level cultivators are about domination. One gives up their identity to be part of the greater whole, the other expands themselves to overrule it.

As for the tiers, every work uses their own. Shen is a phrase with its own definitions in the original language, which is what was used here.
 
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