Why? As a domain narrows the intent behind arts will become incompatible, and if you cultivated an art incompatable with your way... how would you find meaning in it?
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
Seems like the first one is about looking at the discrepencies as a bad thing, but one that doesn't mean much as long as it doesn't repeat too much, while the second is is trying to frame it as an opportunity for CRX to really find herself.
I suspect that second one is 'better' if it goes well, but CRX might take it quite badly.
[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
Seems like the first one is about looking at the discrepencies as a bad thing, but one that doesn't mean much as long as it doesn't repeat too much, while the second is is trying to frame it as an opportunity for CRX to really find herself.
I suspect that second one is 'better' if it goes well, but CRX might take it quite badly.
- Location
- Greece
welp. What a trainwreck this conversation was. Hope we can at least help her somewhat, or I may regret my past 2 votes.
Stupid me forgot Ling Qi's and Meizhen's low social stats -_- .
Stupid me forgot Ling Qi's and Meizhen's low social stats -_- .
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
I prefer this approach because it is more rooted in empathy and shared struggle. CRX understands the logic of the situation and hearing others tell her its ok since hey We All struggle like this is a good way to emotionally help her.
I prefer this approach because it is more rooted in empathy and shared struggle. CRX understands the logic of the situation and hearing others tell her its ok since hey We All struggle like this is a good way to emotionally help her.
Okay, I've thought about it and.... one consistent theme in the quest is that when we commit to a path we need to see it through. We committed to the confrontational path when we invited CRX out here. Half-measures only waste the effort we already put in. Also, the first option claims it's "only a single art". That's not Truth; it's a comforting lie. It won't be only a single art.
We started this by promising CRX we were going to be the advisor who tells it like it is even when the truth isn't something she likes to hear.
That's how it is.
We started this by promising CRX we were going to be the advisor who tells it like it is even when the truth isn't something she likes to hear.
That's how it is.
I think the first option uses logic that CRX understands, to make a irrefutable point, that she can't be a perfect copy. The second says the same, *without* the logic, instead with a general feeling of The Third realm.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
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- He/Him/His
I address domain incompatibility in the next option, but my thinking is "why would you continue cultivating an art after it becomes Domain-incompatible, and, if so, why would you phrase it as 'I finished the art and there was no meaning in it' rather than 'part of the way through, I realized there was no meaning in it'?"
Both of these statements make a logical point that one cultivator can't copy another perfectly.
To me the meat is the beginning of each vote:
Do we encourage CRX to believe that this is only a minor setback in her effort to be as much like her mother as possible?
Or do we challenge her as to why it's desirable to be a copy of her mother in the first place?
The art was compatible when she started cultivating it. She got nothing out of it. thats what you know right now.
That said choosing insights is partially a quest meta thing, while a cultivator obviously thinks hard on the concepts they're cultivating the insights are more of a eureka moment than a conscious choice.
That said choosing insights is partially a quest meta thing, while a cultivator obviously thinks hard on the concepts they're cultivating the insights are more of a eureka moment than a conscious choice.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Got it, thank you. It is hard to tell what aspects of how we-the-questers experience cultivation are paralleled by in-universe actors, so the clarification is helpful.
So it's ambiguous whether it became incompatible or whether she just rejected its possible insights, consciously or unconsciously.
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I don't think offering encouragement would be effective, CRX would see through the attempt to console her and she's self-condemning enough not to accept it willingly. We promised to tell the truth to her and I think we all agree that it is a good thing that she's becoming her own person. Obviously telling her what would make her feel better is not following that promise.
It's a risk though and we've already taking liberties talking to her today but I think we need to bravely push ahead and if cheering her up won't work challenging her priorities might help her on a deeper level.
It's a risk though and we've already taking liberties talking to her today but I think we need to bravely push ahead and if cheering her up won't work challenging her priorities might help her on a deeper level.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
Meanwhile, in the CRX Negathread.
[]: As the carts wheel crushes the dirt, so must that which is behind and below be cast aside to move forward.
[]: The value of a thing is synonymous with it's value to your Design.
[><]: Do not take an Insight from the Design of Inexorable Advance.
- Location
- PA
Hrrm...
You are not Cai Shenhung...But when one wishes to live up to an ideal...
...When you want to live up to an ideal, but fall flat of complete mimicry, I figure the thing to do is take a closer look at what you're trying to imitate and why...
CRX...Does she want to be like Duchess Cai? Or does she simply want to be worthy of the Cai name, a standard skewed by the fact that it's only the two of them, now three with Tengli around?
Because I'm thinking about it and CRX might very well find fufillment in being a Rival to Cai, instead of simply being her heir/ an extension of Cai.
You are not Cai Shenhung...But when one wishes to live up to an ideal...
...When you want to live up to an ideal, but fall flat of complete mimicry, I figure the thing to do is take a closer look at what you're trying to imitate and why...
CRX...Does she want to be like Duchess Cai? Or does she simply want to be worthy of the Cai name, a standard skewed by the fact that it's only the two of them, now three with Tengli around?
Because I'm thinking about it and CRX might very well find fufillment in being a Rival to Cai, instead of simply being her heir/ an extension of Cai.
Hmm. . I agree both indicate she can't be a copy, but the first leans on foundational elements of cultivation, while the second leans on abstract conventions about The Third realm. I feel the first is a better option because of this.
- Location
- A place
[x] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
- Location
- Canada
Yrs laying some heavy stuff on us huh
Right so the issue here is how CRX did not derive an insight from her mothers art, she views this as a failure
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
If we just offer encouragement then that's all, we give conciliatory pat on the back and tell her not to worry too much
[X] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
If we pick the second option then we challenge her to confront the question of whether not perfectly following her mothers footsteps is even a failure to begin with
I'm near certain that this will expose a Domain conflict within her, possibly a pretty big one
I'm also near certain that I'd rather expose the Heart Demon now so that it may be dealt with rather than let her walk down that path only to break later
She probably won't like hearing what we have to say, won't like having to look hard at herself and answer those kinds of questions, but it will hurt more later if it isn't done now
Right so the issue here is how CRX did not derive an insight from her mothers art, she views this as a failure
[] Offer Encouragement. It was only a single art, and everyone knew that a cultivator could not perfectly copy another. Like Ling Qi's own problem, it was only a bump in the path.
If we just offer encouragement then that's all, we give conciliatory pat on the back and tell her not to worry too much
[X] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
If we pick the second option then we challenge her to confront the question of whether not perfectly following her mothers footsteps is even a failure to begin with
I'm near certain that this will expose a Domain conflict within her, possibly a pretty big one
I'm also near certain that I'd rather expose the Heart Demon now so that it may be dealt with rather than let her walk down that path only to break later
She probably won't like hearing what we have to say, won't like having to look hard at herself and answer those kinds of questions, but it will hurt more later if it isn't done now
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TimEd
Meteor maker
Well, I assume there are different Heart Demon intensities, and what Ling Qi is dealing with is fairly minor, while CRX is more about being lost about what to do next right?
And on an inquest perspective, Ling Qi's willingness to change herself to at the least slightly fit the higher level arts she is cultivating could explain the 'availability' of our meta choice regarding any Insight she gets. She WANTS the changes, its the specifics she's dealing with.
On CRX, we know she already has a set goal she wants to emulate, and has arts tailor made to follow that goal. And in this case, one of those tailor made arts not only did not offer her any Insight, she specifically worded it as 'didnt find any meaning to it' (not sure if there is any big difference, but in this case I dont think it matters). This could be attributed to a difference in experiences (CRX is already following the end result, while Cai-mom, genius that she is, still had to custom make her own Way). [though if this is the main thing, where does Art Modification fit in? Not relevant to the vote though]
Also, not to rely on Troupes, but the reason Cai-mom called for a Saint to deal with her newborn might be due to some guilt as to what happened to CRX or maybe Cai-mom really wants to hold/interact with her newborn and only a 'Medical Saint' is strong enough to allow/shield the baby or something.
So to continue the Troupe, she might either be MORE hands on, or Less hands on with her newborn. We dont really know exactly what Cai-mom's goal is in having this many children in this short a time. Maybe its a result of her Way, so she wants to be 'Perfect Mom' and didnt manage that with CRX?
Either way, this uncertainty is ours to deal with.
I for one will probably vote for-
[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
This, because Cai-Mom will either push the newborn to follow her path (CRX 2.0, with all new sets of complications due to different experiences), or Cai-Mom will 'allow' Newkid to freepy express themself. Which means that CRX might 'lose out' due to her rigid path being a reminder that Cai-mom failed her Perfect Mom Plan.
And on an inquest perspective, Ling Qi's willingness to change herself to at the least slightly fit the higher level arts she is cultivating could explain the 'availability' of our meta choice regarding any Insight she gets. She WANTS the changes, its the specifics she's dealing with.
On CRX, we know she already has a set goal she wants to emulate, and has arts tailor made to follow that goal. And in this case, one of those tailor made arts not only did not offer her any Insight, she specifically worded it as 'didnt find any meaning to it' (not sure if there is any big difference, but in this case I dont think it matters). This could be attributed to a difference in experiences (CRX is already following the end result, while Cai-mom, genius that she is, still had to custom make her own Way). [though if this is the main thing, where does Art Modification fit in? Not relevant to the vote though]
Also, not to rely on Troupes, but the reason Cai-mom called for a Saint to deal with her newborn might be due to some guilt as to what happened to CRX or maybe Cai-mom really wants to hold/interact with her newborn and only a 'Medical Saint' is strong enough to allow/shield the baby or something.
So to continue the Troupe, she might either be MORE hands on, or Less hands on with her newborn. We dont really know exactly what Cai-mom's goal is in having this many children in this short a time. Maybe its a result of her Way, so she wants to be 'Perfect Mom' and didnt manage that with CRX?
Either way, this uncertainty is ours to deal with.
I for one will probably vote for-
[] Ask her if that is really so bad? The Third realm was where cultivators set the foundations which guided the rest of their road. Of course divergences would appear.
This, because Cai-Mom will either push the newborn to follow her path (CRX 2.0, with all new sets of complications due to different experiences), or Cai-Mom will 'allow' Newkid to freepy express themself. Which means that CRX might 'lose out' due to her rigid path being a reminder that Cai-mom failed her Perfect Mom Plan.
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I know yrsillar said we're about done with the Kill la Kill references, but....
The theme song of the series is literally entitled "Don't Lose Your Way".
And we just got an update that:
For those not familiar, in the series (some spoilers) the younger sister Ryuko aggressively does her own thing and takes after her father, completely rejecting her mother's way. The older sister Satsuki at first appears to be following her mother slavishly, but then rebels to find her own path.
The theme song of the series is literally entitled "Don't Lose Your Way".
And we just got an update that:
For those not familiar, in the series (some spoilers) the younger sister Ryuko aggressively does her own thing and takes after her father, completely rejecting her mother's way. The older sister Satsuki at first appears to be following her mother slavishly, but then rebels to find her own path.
Mother Nyx
Mother of Elpis
- Location
- The Kei Klub
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Plan HELP THE CAI IS ACTIVATED.
This is fraught with meaning, and is potentially worrying for Renxiang's mental health, since it was revealed by Lin Hai in 6:3-2 (Turn:Arc) that meeting Renxiang so young had been bad for the girl and that Shenhua was informed of this opinion. Since Lady Cai cannot abide mediocrity, she might raise Tienli very differently, and it almost certainly will be the childhood Renxiang would have wanted.
So right now Renxiang is not only dealing with the after affects of being in Shenhua's presence, failing to understand her mother's way in cultivating her arts, but there might be jealously for the life her sister will get to live. Renxiang is suffering.
Except that's not really the case. AFAIK the primary goal CRX has set is the assorted stuff about seeking/creating justice - the arts she has are those that her mother has provided for her. CRX is wrestling with the fact that something about her is now in conflict with what her mother envisioned for her.
Given her overall issues, right now she's got something of a Morton's fork between her self doubt (she made a mistake and strayed from the path her mother set out for her) or even worse doubt in her mother (something about my mother's way is incompatible with her set goal).
I actually suspect it's something like the second, where CRX's goal is based on a child's understanding of her mother's Way and as she grows up and becomes her own person closer looks at arts derived from her mother's domain reveal they don't actually mean what she thought they did.
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- Location
- The Space Between
would it be safe to assume that our slotted Argent Mirror insight helps us not lie to ourselves about compatibility? This would seem like an in-story reason for us to know about compatibility
I feel like the second shouldn't be a conflict. CRX was never meant to be a clone of her mother, and indeed she points out that she has ambitions for doing (some) things different than her mother - so of course she can't follow the same Way. Divergences are not merely inevitable, but necessary.
- Location
- Spain
I feel like trying to tell a comforting lie to Cai Renxiang might lead us to develop internally another snarl, contradicting the insight of Argent Mirror and our "prioritize the wellbeing of your Family" insight (Meizhen mentioning AM in this update is likely a hint towards us keping it in mind as we ponder this choice).
I am concerned about our ability to suggest this to CRX in a way that does not deal a blow to her feelings. We might undergo a relationship rank downgrade if we mess this up.
Also! Heart Demons, hmm... I just thought of a thing.
....Did Ling Qi cause a cultivation snarl on Meizhen by rejecting her heartfelt confession? Is Meizhen's new attitude the result of an insight she acquired in order to overcome the conflict we caused on her by breaking her heart? ...no wonder Cui begrudges us. What to LQ felt like an honest declaration of thing, for Meizhen must have had a more physical effect, and Cui must have seen this as a sabotage against her Cousin's cultivation, an actual harmful attack, whether it be intentional or accidental. When we rejected the snek waifu's love, we didn't even consider this angle.
Oh goodness, now whenever we reject someone's feelings we might have to consider whether we're causing a domain snarl on them. And if our words to CRX risk causing one on her too... we might start gaining a reputation of "Professional Instigator of Cultivation Snarls".
I wonder if there are arts intended to sabotage purposefully other people's cultivation by messing up with their feelings.
I am concerned about our ability to suggest this to CRX in a way that does not deal a blow to her feelings. We might undergo a relationship rank downgrade if we mess this up.
Also! Heart Demons, hmm... I just thought of a thing.
....Did Ling Qi cause a cultivation snarl on Meizhen by rejecting her heartfelt confession? Is Meizhen's new attitude the result of an insight she acquired in order to overcome the conflict we caused on her by breaking her heart? ...no wonder Cui begrudges us. What to LQ felt like an honest declaration of thing, for Meizhen must have had a more physical effect, and Cui must have seen this as a sabotage against her Cousin's cultivation, an actual harmful attack, whether it be intentional or accidental. When we rejected the snek waifu's love, we didn't even consider this angle.
Oh goodness, now whenever we reject someone's feelings we might have to consider whether we're causing a domain snarl on them. And if our words to CRX risk causing one on her too... we might start gaining a reputation of "Professional Instigator of Cultivation Snarls".
I wonder if there are arts intended to sabotage purposefully other people's cultivation by messing up with their feelings.
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