Now, if we are particularly evul, we shkuld target their mounts first. Calvary are particularly attached to them.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- United States of America
You missed the argument that the "Drive Them Before Us" option is the option explicitly involving breaking their morale as fast as possible. With the huge numerical disparity between the Sect forces and the Barbarian raiders, we need a way to even up the odds and breaking their morale and desire to engage in this fight will do just that.
This seems an odd argument while simultaneously advancing the position that Ling Qi can match half the force on her lonesome well enough to rout the enemy. Do numbers matter or don't they?
- Location
- United States of America
Numbers matter in so much as the forces want to keep fighting. The moment that one side doesn't want to keep fighting, the numbers stop mattering. And it's not so much that Ling Qi can match half of the opponent's forces, as it is that a sudden terrifying new threat has appeared which the Barbarian raiders need to deal with.
We already have them fleeing:
and so if we can instill in them a panic they'll keep fleeing. Ideally past their leaders and back where they came from. Letting them gather around their leaders and reorganize themselves lets them leverage their superior numbers against us.
It's the same principle behind shock and awe tactics, or hitting superior forces in the flanks/back to make the enemy soldiers panic and run. Fear is a killer and while we don't have Meizhen's ability to produce supernatural fear, we can create an ordinary panic extremely well with our arts.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If they have the warriors to so massively outnumber us in a feint while still being able to overwhelm other settlements we're kinda screwed. The other settlements even more so if we cause them to flee since their superior mobility means they'd more quickly be able to join and support allies in other battlefronts than our people could. If we're worried about conflict in other locations I'd say that pinning them for a decisive and organised strike with Let them come is more effective than letting them disengage.
Some nomads moved out of the way of a big scary magic bank of fog, sure. It would have been stupid for them to have not done so. There's two problems with your analysis though. First, there is the fact the nomads are spread out over the area engaged with our forces, and charging the enemy doesn't scrape those off, because Ling Qi's arts aren't that large. The second is the apparent assumption that because enemies are giving ground, they are prepped for full on flight from the field, and that they'd continue in that manner even if Ling Qi's advance were challenged by their leaders. Or, like, if the leaders gave orders to do other than fall back from a new, unknown, potent threat.
I'm intensely skeptical that the charge can be effective without engaging and bloodying the main concentration of the enemy, and that means trading blows with... the main concentration of the enemy.
- Location
- United States of America
I mean... they're also alarmed at our presence.
And in the midst of combat, we should be able to turn that alarm into a panic.
And I don't think the problems you have with my analysis are problems at all. Mass routes are a thing, and when they see their friends and relatives running away, they will be that much more inclined to run as well. Panic spreads like wildfire through forces without the appropriate discipline to ignore it. Furthermore, even if only one group routes and the other group stays, that is a vastly fewer force to deal with, which achieves the goal of equalizing the forces.
And the second problem assumes that the raiders will listen to their leaders and that the leaders will be able to control their forces. That assumes they have sufficient discipline for such an action. If we are able to create a panic, I'm doubtful that they will have the discipline to stay and fight.
As to your intense skepticism that our charge can be effective without engaging and blooding the enemy, you are absolutely correct. We will need to engage and bloody the enemy in the "drive them before us" option. We will likely need to engage and bloody the main concentration of the enemy as well. That's why it's risky. I'm not denying that risk. However, if we are able to strike fast enough and hard enough, the raiders should panic and run rather than standing their ground and fighting.
- Location
- Michigan
I think we've chosen the safe option too often, and it hasn't seemed Ling Qi to me. Ling Qi in the tournament went right after her foes, I know this is actual battle, so its a bit different, but its not League of Legends either. I don't think we'll get instant wrecked.
Usually after our safe play, the event ends without much to speak of it. And if we stand back and just go slow, the momentum from Ling Qi sweeping in is gone. It's risky, but the aggressive option is a chance for Ling Qi to actually test herself.
Usually after our safe play, the event ends without much to speak of it. And if we stand back and just go slow, the momentum from Ling Qi sweeping in is gone. It's risky, but the aggressive option is a chance for Ling Qi to actually test herself.
I think people are also looking too hard for "some big trick" here. Like, for all the "but what if they could summon a big lightning bolt or something if we give them time" I can't help but feel that if they were to do that, that Shen Hu would make far more sense as a target than us. Afterall, he's the one who is a not-particularly-mobile entrenched fortification.
Also I'll again bring up that our fellow Green scout dude doesn't appear to be in a good place atm. He's currently being harried by one of the barbarian greens (presumably a peer), and half a dozen yellows, and they're taking full advantage of flight.
Also I'll again bring up that our fellow Green scout dude doesn't appear to be in a good place atm. He's currently being harried by one of the barbarian greens (presumably a peer), and half a dozen yellows, and they're taking full advantage of flight.
TimEd
Meteor maker
You know who else are taking advantage of flight? The higher realm barbarians who has been hidden from (presumably) everyone but us.
Do you want to just waste our surprise arrival and be on a defensive stance and give the enemy full reign on what to do with us? They may or may not do a Big Trick, they may or may not just bypass us entirely, they also may or may not just stall for time.
Giving them the initiative is just gonna give them more time and soace to leverage their advantage in flight capability.
Cloud nomads don't have to stand their ground to fight, and they don't have conventional logistics. Unless we decapitate their leadership or cause catastrophic casualties, not just bloody their noses, no rout is going to truly matter. They don't abandon their capacity to wage war when they flee the field. There aren't any vital camps or stores they're forced to leave behind, and they're able to avoid significant navigational and terrain management difficulties by virtue of flying, to regroup.
I'm seeing conventional logic which fails to account for their unconventional means.
The only time I can think of that went safe play -> event end was the prior scouting outing. Forest King had us do a bit of an 11th hour backtrack, but the event was always going to end at around the same time it did, and it was a pretty dramatic finish anyway. Li Suyin's event had us taking a bold/risky stance and bailing when things got too real, but accomplishing what we needed to and there was little else but glory to be had. Zeqing's event had no safety choices. Xuan Shi's event didn't have safe or dangerous plays. The moon trio dream held no danger. The Bai banditry event had nothing but bold moves. The noble hunting party could have ended with a more antagonistic decision, but it wouldn't have extended the event any, and there's no indication it had anything of value to offer.
So there really isn't a trend like you're describing.
The most likely things to cause a premature end to engagement with the event are Ling Qi getting seriously injured or deciding to hunker down in one place indefinitely. Both choices right now carry a chance of injury, but charging the enemy carries the risk at a much higher level. Neither of the available choices involves Ling Qi sticking around in the village indefinitely. It's the high-risk option that, well, risks having to sit out the rest of the event.
The rest of your analysis is misguided. Playing mobile oversight cover for our side's rally isn't exactly a walk in the park- it's extremely challenging, an incredible test of her capabilities. It's only by advancing a crudely limited view of Ling Qi's capabilities that it's possible for only one of the votes to "test" her. There is no vote to "stand back and just go slow"; there is a vote to push forward slowly. The momentum from Ling Qi's appearance is used to secure and advance the currently skirmishing positions of her allies. By killing the people they're fighting.
This is ridiculous. Both votes actively contest the actions of the barbarians. Let them come has Ling Qi actively and deliberately corralling the enemy and interdicting across the relevant airspace. Explicitly. It gives them more room to organize, but it by no means leaves them to their own devices.
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Both options are offensive, Let them come just focuses more on the enemy in the immediate vicinity and is generally more cautious. It still aims to attack, push back and pin them. It's slower but it'll probably be more effective offensively to pin and strike them decisively than to make them scatter.
- Location
- United States of America
I agree, no rout will truly matter in the long run here. But our goal is not to ensure that this group can't ever wage war again, it is to ensure that this group stops attacking this village. And a rout will accomplish that. A rout will force the Cloud Nomads to regroup, which may be challenging for them in the short term because of their own mobility because of how far and wide they can run. Then after they regroup, they'll have to decide where to attack next and travel to that location. And that's if they want to keep fighting for the day instead of retreating back to the Wall to lick their wounds and actually take time to plan another attack.
Sima Jiao &Xin
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
While u guys are arguing about which one's the right option, I will proceed to post new art of the day
Here we have our ol' grumpy old man Elder Jiao and his spirit waif Xin
Tried mixing colors to fit his Jiao-ness here, along with his shadow eyes
And for the record, I actually hate what I did here with Xin. Mostly the posture, but it affected her design to the point where she looks lame compared to Jiao
@yrsillar NEW ART
Here we have our ol' grumpy old man Elder Jiao and his spirit waif Xin
Tried mixing colors to fit his Jiao-ness here, along with his shadow eyes
And for the record, I actually hate what I did here with Xin. Mostly the posture, but it affected her design to the point where she looks lame compared to Jiao
@yrsillar NEW ART
Zedalb
I just started a Patreon!
- Location
- Washington
img broke in post, but not on quote.While u guys are arguing about which one's the right option, I will proceed to post new art of the day
Here we have our ol' grumpy old man Elder Jiao and his spirit waif Xin
Tried mixing colors to fit his Jiao-ness here, along with his shadow eyes
And for the record, I actually hate what I did here with Xin. Mostly the posture, but it affected her design to the point where she looks lame compared to Jiao
@yrsillar NEW ART
- Location
- Earth
[X] Let them come
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, that's basically my thinking too, they're a highly mobile nomadic army, they're built to show up from out of nowhere, seize the initiative, and then throttle you with it until you die. We have that rare thing that is tactical surprise against this detachment--all of their techniques right now are geared towards the current paradigm of suppressing the Argent Sect Cultivators while burning and looting the peasantry, they're not at the moment blobbed up in a "Take on targets outside our weight class" formation, so when Ling Qi showed up in their midst already emitting her field control, they can't pivot immediately to it.
This will change if we take a defensive posture. While we'll certainly seek to do damage and suppress them--it gives them time to reorganize, and scale up for raid battle rather than PvE--which we know from the vision in Forge they are very capable of, in contrast to traditional nomadic raiders who tend to have to go around hard targets.
The goal, I think, in Drive Them Before You is for Ling Qi to seize the initative she's already acquired, and then try to push them from shaken to routing. At that point, they're liable to keep running for a while--or at the very least deciding to bugger this raid for a lark and leaving to come back for another go later. If we chase them then, it'll be an overextension without a doubt.
As it is now? We're more or less in a redux of the Foreshock battle at the moment--except we don't need to be concerned about killing them all, just making them leave.
Still, I will admit, there is risk inherent in this. The biggest risk being that we don't actually know how far Ling Qi intends to pressure them. If she's going to keep chasing if when they rout, this suddenly goes from a decent idea to a horrible one. We want to keep applying morale shocks until they rout, not kill them all.
This will change if we take a defensive posture. While we'll certainly seek to do damage and suppress them--it gives them time to reorganize, and scale up for raid battle rather than PvE--which we know from the vision in Forge they are very capable of, in contrast to traditional nomadic raiders who tend to have to go around hard targets.
The goal, I think, in Drive Them Before You is for Ling Qi to seize the initative she's already acquired, and then try to push them from shaken to routing. At that point, they're liable to keep running for a while--or at the very least deciding to bugger this raid for a lark and leaving to come back for another go later. If we chase them then, it'll be an overextension without a doubt.
As it is now? We're more or less in a redux of the Foreshock battle at the moment--except we don't need to be concerned about killing them all, just making them leave.
Still, I will admit, there is risk inherent in this. The biggest risk being that we don't actually know how far Ling Qi intends to pressure them. If she's going to keep chasing if when they rout, this suddenly goes from a decent idea to a horrible one. We want to keep applying morale shocks until they rout, not kill them all.
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EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
it's seems like it's working for me, but let me do it again
Zedalb
I just started a Patreon!
- Location
- Washington
Works now, may have been a page load error or something.
