This is good scoats and spear for intel and combat along with politics
The Long Founding (Warhammer 40k)
- Thread starter undead frog
- Start date
- Location
- Someplace USA
@undead frog what would counter insurgency training do for this chapter?
Because this is creed, not battle cry, it can be as long as we want. The Chapter tells this stuff to teach their recruits the gist of the Chapter worldview, it sounding cool is nice, optional bonus not obligation, and it's not something they will shout aloud on battlefield.
Question, why it is this named "Warrior of the Mind V2" when only half of the fluff is the same and only politics from mechanical standpoint?
- Location
- Someplace USA
Also why extra thunderhawks? This chapter isn't meant to be hyper mobile and we have a dread trait.
BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
I mean, it was directly derived from your plan, just with some changes, so I felt it was appropriate. Especially seeing as I reused the owl image you found and all.
I suppose we could go with extra dreadnoughts, but I'm not certain that's the most useful in the context of a political-minded, anti-rebellion chapter. My thinking is that access to extra aircraft transports would help with rapid deployment to specific hotspots, decapitation strikes, etc.
[X]Plan: The wisdom of Athens
[X]Plan: Brother, I like this funny birds
-[X] Name: The Wise Owls
-[X] Chapter colors: Cyan (primary) Grey (secondary) White (tertiary)
-[X] Chapter symbol: A White Owl clutching a key upon a Cyan field.
-[X] Chapter creed: The sword kills, the quill destroys
--[X] Battle cry: With elders wisdom and brothers might!
-[X] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[X] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[X] Spear Training: The Chapter is especially well trained in the use of spear and javelin like weapons, this does not cover staves or polearms however.
-[X] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
[X]Plan: Brother, I like this funny birds
-[X] Name: The Wise Owls
-[X] Chapter colors: Cyan (primary) Grey (secondary) White (tertiary)
-[X] Chapter symbol: A White Owl clutching a key upon a Cyan field.
-[X] Chapter creed: The sword kills, the quill destroys
--[X] Battle cry: With elders wisdom and brothers might!
-[X] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[X] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[X] Spear Training: The Chapter is especially well trained in the use of spear and javelin like weapons, this does not cover staves or polearms however.
-[X] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
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- Location
- Someplace USA
frankly a lot of what their going to be doing is mortal crushing which doesn't actually need any extra gear. Dreadnoughts is cause we get a free charge and we have a trait that can make em hilarious.
- Location
- Orbital Observation Outpost
Our dreds are active all the time, bored and will probably want to get involved and go do stuff. Need fliers to move them.
Sadly don't have flying / orbit droppable dreads yet.
Also, this chapters combat doctrine is - as far as I understand - to strike at rebellions before it ramps up, or to take out the leadership. Something like that, instead of sieging the whole planet/PDF.
There are chapters which do that by various means like spy stuff, stealth, fear, etc.
Ours, I assume, is kind of like discount old Luna Wolves? Focus on direct decapitating strike.
That is probably what was behind the thunderhawk idea.
Not sure if it's better to requisition extra equipment for the chapter or arrange for strike/assault training, but picking some option to help us execute the second part mission might be useful.
Investigating and uncovering the traitors should be followed by their effective removal, which we should be able to accomplish on our own, and do so suddenly and precisely to avoid situation degenerating into a mass war.
Kind of wish we could pick more stuff, multiple options look like they would be have good synergy or increase effectiveness of the build.
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
We *could* do Spear Combat, I'm not super opposed to it, but could I make the argument for Marksmen as our third training option instead?
I say this because I'm envisioning a chapter that takes enacting justice very seriously, and that also means avoiding misapplying justice against the innocent whenever possible. Having highly skilled marksmen would help reduce collateral damage in this regard. Precisely striking down the wicked and all that.
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Fair enough
Dreadnought droppods exist and are fairly common.
- Location
- 47° 09′ S, 126° 43′ O
yep,'they are even imperial knight drop pod and legio titanica have something equivalent called a macrolander.
- Location
- Orbital Observation Outpost
A planetary governor is meeting an astartes delegation at the spaceport.
Instead of a landing shuttle one might expect of a diplomatic visit, several drop pods smash into plasteel deck, killing a bunch of menials with shrapnel.
Out stumble several absolutely huge highly decorated robot things, who you are told may or may have an annoyed sleep deprived senile old men inside them, who then proceed to use the loudhailer to yell about tax discrepancies and demand to see your records immediately.
Instead of hands they got large caliber bolters and chain weapons, and require a ladder for servants to bring up documents to a small viewing slit on their chests.
There's some kind of small bird riding on top of each machine. Head tilted at weird angle, it stares at you constantly without blinking. Judging your every move.
...
Meanwhile, rest of the chapter investigates in the background.
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- Pronouns
- That/Thing
Yeah chaplains and politics seems ideal, we can manage both the overly religious planets and the more aristocratic ones, the fact that they are space marines should get guard planets in line.
Can't imagine they'll need more military force for what they're doing either.
There's an argument to be made for counter intelligence, to boost political's effectiveness as well, it's more how broad or how focused we want to be.
Can't imagine they'll need more military force for what they're doing either.
There's an argument to be made for counter intelligence, to boost political's effectiveness as well, it's more how broad or how focused we want to be.
- Location
- United states
It really does seem like this chapter doesn't really need anymore combat considering that they would be dealing with people that normal SM's would easily stomp. Also seems like extra librarians wouldn't actually be that useful due to their visions being pretty random, besides feels like pick librarians all the time is getting old.
As others have said chaplains seem like they make more sense over librarians since their whole thing is rooting out corruption and treachery, which makes sense if they are meant to deal with nobles. Counter intelligence also seems fitting since expect corrupt nobles to try hiding things and it would help find out if rebellions are being backed by Chaos in the first place. Politics also seems like it's a must in this case.
As others have said chaplains seem like they make more sense over librarians since their whole thing is rooting out corruption and treachery, which makes sense if they are meant to deal with nobles. Counter intelligence also seems fitting since expect corrupt nobles to try hiding things and it would help find out if rebellions are being backed by Chaos in the first place. Politics also seems like it's a must in this case.
For some reason I'm imagining the Dreadnaughts being extra sneaky, and it's hilarious.
- Location
- US of A
After further thought, extra Scouts + Veteran Scouts would be useful in mapping out the Imperial establishments and matches the info-gathering before carrying out the law.
And heh, found it amusing that rather than stereotypically being adherent to the Codex Astartes, this Chapter of Ultramarine Successors is obsessed with the Lex Imperialis.
And heh, found it amusing that rather than stereotypically being adherent to the Codex Astartes, this Chapter of Ultramarine Successors is obsessed with the Lex Imperialis.
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- Pronouns
- That/Thing
We might be making a critical error here, a fair few of our plans seem based on the idea the chapter will be arriving before the rebellion or investigating a place to see if they are in fact rebelling.
But wouldn't a space marine chapter only show up to worlds actively fighting off guardsmen already? Well past the subterfuge point at least, given the wider imperium would have to know they are rebelling and enough of a problem space marines are needed.
Not sure what that does with our planning but we aren't exactly law enforcement here, it'll probably be more 'kill everyone who doesn't surrender and then have the survivors/loyalists run the planet' than 'show up and kill a few heretics/traitors and leave'
so we need a chapter that can wipe out the old government and put a new more efficient one in its place essentially. Politics is still needed for that, but more in the political science sense of building a good government that in the 'negotiate' one. As we will be well past that point when we arrive.
Given the chapters trait of staying on the world after the fact we are already seemingly on that path, we just gotta reinforce it a bit.
The librarians future sight might make it so we show up before open rebellion as well so the subterfuge would be useful then but that doesn't seem reliable enough to bet on, though it's a valid plan if we get more librarians. Show up before a planet rebels and fix its problems/ governance and then leave.
Not sure how this all affects planning though.
Edit- also can't imagine a space marine being subtle, I know some legions are, but still
Second edit- also some worlds might be very chaos corrupted so chaplains are probably a must, to prevent chapter corruption and to fight demons or whatever. Same with chaos space marines heading rebellions
But wouldn't a space marine chapter only show up to worlds actively fighting off guardsmen already? Well past the subterfuge point at least, given the wider imperium would have to know they are rebelling and enough of a problem space marines are needed.
Not sure what that does with our planning but we aren't exactly law enforcement here, it'll probably be more 'kill everyone who doesn't surrender and then have the survivors/loyalists run the planet' than 'show up and kill a few heretics/traitors and leave'
so we need a chapter that can wipe out the old government and put a new more efficient one in its place essentially. Politics is still needed for that, but more in the political science sense of building a good government that in the 'negotiate' one. As we will be well past that point when we arrive.
Given the chapters trait of staying on the world after the fact we are already seemingly on that path, we just gotta reinforce it a bit.
The librarians future sight might make it so we show up before open rebellion as well so the subterfuge would be useful then but that doesn't seem reliable enough to bet on, though it's a valid plan if we get more librarians. Show up before a planet rebels and fix its problems/ governance and then leave.
Not sure how this all affects planning though.
Edit- also can't imagine a space marine being subtle, I know some legions are, but still
Second edit- also some worlds might be very chaos corrupted so chaplains are probably a must, to prevent chapter corruption and to fight demons or whatever. Same with chaos space marines heading rebellions
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- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ] Plan: Scales of Justice
-[ ] Scale Balancers
-[ ] Blue and White
-[ ] A set of golden scales on a blue and white background, perfectly balanced
-[ ] "We are the hand that balances the scales of justice."
-[ ] "Protect and serve!"
-[ ] 2 Charges of Extra Training
-[ ] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[ ] Counterintelligence Training: The Chapter is proficient in the art of detecting and thwarting enemy infiltration attempts.
-[ ] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[ ] Extra Thunderhawks: The Chapter has access to additional Thunderhawks, of both Gunship, Transporter and Annihilator models, giving them superior heavy air power.
Basically they're inner-city cops that go around figuring out who the actual trouble-makers are and dropping down on them like the wrath of the Emperor.
-[ ] Scale Balancers
-[ ] Blue and White
-[ ] A set of golden scales on a blue and white background, perfectly balanced
-[ ] "We are the hand that balances the scales of justice."
-[ ] "Protect and serve!"
-[ ] 2 Charges of Extra Training
-[ ] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[ ] Counterintelligence Training: The Chapter is proficient in the art of detecting and thwarting enemy infiltration attempts.
-[ ] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[ ] Extra Thunderhawks: The Chapter has access to additional Thunderhawks, of both Gunship, Transporter and Annihilator models, giving them superior heavy air power.
Basically they're inner-city cops that go around figuring out who the actual trouble-makers are and dropping down on them like the wrath of the Emperor.
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- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fixed. Also, if anyone has a better suggestion for a name, feel free to suggest it.
[]Plan: Spear-men of justice
-[] Name: The Court of Owls
-[] Chapter colors: Cyan and silver
-[] Chapter symbol: A White Owl with a pen in one talon and a spear in the other
-[] Chapter creed: The spear to destroy, the quill to create
--[] Battle cry: With elder's wisdom and brothers might!
-[] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[] Spear Training: The Chapter is especially well trained in the use of spear and javelin like weapons, this does not cover staves or polearms however.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
[]Plan: The wisdom of Athens
-[] Name: The court of Owls
-[] Chapter colors: Cyan and white
-[] Chapter symbol: A White Owl in flight
-[] Chapter creed: To rule with wisdom and temperance
--[] Battle cry: With elder's wisdom and brothers might!
-[] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[ ] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
-[] Name: The Court of Owls
-[] Chapter colors: Cyan and silver
-[] Chapter symbol: A White Owl with a pen in one talon and a spear in the other
-[] Chapter creed: The spear to destroy, the quill to create
--[] Battle cry: With elder's wisdom and brothers might!
-[] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[] Spear Training: The Chapter is especially well trained in the use of spear and javelin like weapons, this does not cover staves or polearms however.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
[]Plan: The wisdom of Athens
-[] Name: The court of Owls
-[] Chapter colors: Cyan and white
-[] Chapter symbol: A White Owl in flight
-[] Chapter creed: To rule with wisdom and temperance
--[] Battle cry: With elder's wisdom and brothers might!
-[] Politics: This Chapter has grown adept at manipulating the surrounding political landscape. A sad necessity, in the increasingly politically driven Imperium.
-[] Chaplains: The Chapter is blessed with more Chaplains than average among its numbers, and higher quality as well. Treachery and corruption will find it far harder to grow within their ranks.
-[ ] Librarians: The Chapter's Librarians are particularly well trained, and have far greater resistance to the temptations of the warp. They are far less likely to fall to Perils of the Warp, and offer more potent psychic support.
-[] Extra Dreadnaughts: The Chapter has more Dreadnought hulls than normal, letting it field more of the venerable ancients… if it has enough wounded veterans to pilot them, of course.
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BobTheNinja
Sword of Possibility
- Location
- Multiverse Sector Texas
Since I haven't seen much argument either way, I've gone ahead and chosen Marksmen as my third training option after Politics and Chaplains for plan Warrior of the Mind V2.