TBH, my immediate thoughts on "Rhaenyra marrying Qoren pisses off Daemon" is that at least part of it is that Daemon has some weird psychopathic crush on Rhaenyra, and is getting jealous. I'm not sure how true that is, but I do know that Rhaenyra and Daemon fucked in canon (blegh).
 
TBH, my immediate thoughts on "Rhaenyra marrying Qoren pisses off Daemon" is that at least part of it is that Daemon has some weird psychopathic crush on Rhaenyra, and is getting jealous. I'm not sure how true that is, but I do know that Rhaenyra and Daemon fucked in canon (blegh).
I mean in Daemon's ideal world he marries Rhaenyra but here it's not really out of attraction so much as it would give him a better claim as heir and indulge his Valyrian Supremacy brain worms.
 
Here's where things stand, will probably let things go for another day

Adhoc vote count started by NedTheNanite on Mar 11, 2025 at 3:52 PM, finished with 145 posts and 41 votes.

  • [X] Plan Doctor Visit and Girl Talks
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Alicent Hightower
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Maester Orwyle
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel: Raylon has suggested dueling others as a way of sharpening yourself against new blades. Have others find flaws in you that he has missed (Pick One)
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
    [X] Plan: Important Talks
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Otto Hightower
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Alicent Hightower
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel: Raylon has suggested dueling others as a way of sharpening yourself against new blades. Have others find flaws in you that he has missed (Pick One)
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
    [X] Plan Doctor Visit
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Gwayne And Alicent
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel: Raylon has suggested dueling others as a way of sharpening yourself against new blades. Have others find flaws in you that he has missed (Pick One)
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Maester Orwyle
    [X] Plan: Grand Maester Conspiracy
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Alicent Hightower
    -[X] [Action] Study
    --[X] Study Law
    ---[X] Specifically, study the legalistic relationship between the Crown and the Citadel, and how Mellos might best be removed in a way that best furthers your position without unwanted damage.
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Otto Hightower
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    [X] High Flying Connections
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    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel:
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Action] Fly to Harrenhal
    [X] Plan An Application of Soft Power.
    [X] Plan: Important Talks (Doubling Down on the High Siblings Version)
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Alicent Hightower
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Gwayne And Alicent
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel: Raylon has suggested dueling others as a way of sharpening yourself against new blades. Have others find flaws in you that he has missed (Pick One)
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
    [X] High Flying Connections
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Otto Hightower
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Ser Raylon Tarly
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Laena Velaryon
    -[X] [Conversation] Speak with Isembard Arryn
    -[X] [Action] Train
    --[X] Challenge to a Duel: Raylon has suggested dueling others as a way of sharpening yourself against new blades. Have others find flaws in you that he has missed (Pick One)
    ---[X] [Duel] One of the Dornish Nobles
    -[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
 
OK.

Well, if so, that definitely leaves Mellos pretty firmly complicit in Aemma's death, especially since with a breech birth, well, that's something I suspect that an actually good midwife/obstetric maester should be able to handle with some hope of success if by no me.ans a certainty. Turning a breech birth was something known at least in concept in pre-modern times, I think.

And it does underline the pattern that as a physician, Mellos is... at best mediocre.

And he just pissed us off by suggesting that Rhaenyra be disinherited
Well, to play devil's advocate, it is true that in most cases a good midwife can handle a breech birth, and it has been like that for centuries, BUT as a consequence of having evolved from apes we have a very problematic reproductive system, and in quite a few cases there is no way of handling a breech birth without surgery...

Besides that, for a very long time "proper" medics thought that surgery was beneath them so even if the survival rate for the mother was very low (15-20%), barbers, butchers, or even gelders were known to have managed to save both the mother and the child...
If I rememeber correctly it's established that saving Aemma simply is not possible. The choice was between both them dying or maybe saving Baelon at the cost of doing something horrific to Aemma. Which is part of why Viserys is consumed with guilt, he blames himself for Aemma's death and he blames himself for how horrific her last moments were. He is entirely correct in blaming himself admittedly but he's also basically killing himself with this huge knot of guilt inside of him.
Very much so, even then doing the deed without knowledge or consent of Aemma was beyond fucked up...

Something else to consider is that even if there were cases in which both the mother and the child survived and, for most of its existence C-sections were used mostly when the mother died as an attempt to save the baby, or to extract a dead baby and the mother was unable to expel it because an operation with 15% chance of survival was better than a certain death for sepsis...
Now, wouldn't it be funny if Helaena got inspired by Rhaeynra and attempted to be Dragon Knight 2.0? Imagine the faces of most of the nobility.
I disagree, it would be awesome and cool, and pretty heartwarming to see our sister follow Nyra's steps but not really that funny...

What would be extremely funny is that despite being so big Heleana was an ultra girly girl, and Aelora a tomboy... That would be much funnir imo.
Yeah it's not that he planned to conqueror Dorne it's that an agreeement and marriage with Dorne upstages everything he's done in the Stepstones.
And that is pretty dangerous, knowing that Daemon is a chaotic trash goblin once he is done with sulking he will try to upstage us somehow...

So let's see what shenanigans come out of it
I mean in Daemon's ideal world he marries Rhaenyra but here it's not really out of attraction so much as it would give him a better claim as heir and indulge his Valyrian Supremacy brain worms.
Yeah, IIRC you were kind of glad that Visenya Reborn had won because she was the only one who would see through Daemon's grooming attempts straight away...

If you don't mind me asking @Teen Spirit how you would have handled things regarding Daemon with Scholar Rhaneyra?
Because even if his objective was still to marry Rhaenyra to give him a better claim as heir and indulge his Valyrian Supremacy brain worms, in the scholar Daemon disliked Nyra from the beginning (instead of the relatively recent fallout of the knight route), and Scholar didn't have the defiant trait that made Daemon's attempts of grooming her a failure from the start...
 
Yeah, IIRC you were kind of glad that Visenya Reborn had won because she was the only one who would see through Daemon's grooming attempts straight away...

If you don't mind me asking @Teen Spirit how you would have handled things regarding Daemon with Scholar Rhaneyra?
Because even if his objective was still to marry Rhaenyra to give him a better claim as heir and indulge his Valyrian Supremacy brain worms, in the scholar Daemon disliked Nyra from the beginning (instead of the relatively recent fallout of the knight route), and Scholar didn't have the defiant trait that made Daemon's attempts of grooming her a failure from the start...
It's been a while since I thought about that so I'm not 100% sure what I had planned but a big thing would be that Daemon is more dismissive of her as a person (since while he's big on the Dragon side of being Valyrian, he doesn't care much about stuff like dreams and prophecies and such) but also more jealous because Scholar Rhaenyra would have started with the strongest relationship with Viserys.
 
I would have loved to see the Scholar Rhaenyra route. This has already been so great, but it would have been so amazing to see the uphill climb of an heir that so completely fails to adhere to the chivalric ideal on top of being a woman. It would have fit this Master of Laws apprenticeship even more naturally, and forced solutions that didn't involve dueling people or brandishing your dragon at them. Maybe picking up an aptitude for scheming to combat the disadvantage, leveraging her close relationship with Viserys, openly antagonistic Daemon from the start... It would have been cool so see.

No complaints about the story we got, though. Visenya reborn is compelling in her own right, and the story's been gripping.
 
[] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)

[] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)

[] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)

[] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)

[] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)

[] Request control over where all your kids, save Qoren's heir, are raised. (This is a Major Request)

Holding of until spring means everyone can make it to the wedding and don't have to dip into winter stores. Food is controlled in winter since they last for years it's better to wait so that people don't starve for the sake of a celebration.

Inheritance regardless of gender mean no extra births if they aren't desired. So no pregnancy one after another trying for a male. Since it's Dorne they wouldn't have an issue with it and the iron throne is already getting a queen so they'd cope even if they grumble.

By giving all possible child a change with a dragon egg it would show that no one child if favored over they other. If they do have dragons they would need to be trained to ride them and that's best with other dragon riders teaching them. So regardless of who inherits what titles some control of where and when the children are raised can be under Rhaenyra's control. Though once the child that will be Dorne's heir can competently fly at large distances nothing is stopping them from staying in the place they rule and still visit in Kingslanding or wherever else they need/want to go. It show Dorne that yes they marriage is important and binding by giving their future ruler a chance and a dragon same as any other Targaryen children they are not lesser. Add to that a mother able to fly to Dorne to visit and learn until they can fly on their own it's not and bad trade off for eventually have a dragon living in there. A dragon pit is something I think would be one of those go by ear type of thing if it's needed or not.
 
I would have loved to see the Scholar Rhaenyra route. This has already been so great, but it would have been so amazing to see the uphill climb of an heir that so completely fails to adhere to the chivalric ideal on top of being a woman. It would have fit this Master of Laws apprenticeship even more naturally, and forced solutions that didn't involve dueling people or brandishing your dragon at them. Maybe picking up an aptitude for scheming to combat the disadvantage, leveraging her close relationship with Viserys, openly antagonistic Daemon from the start... It would have been cool so see.

No complaints about the story we got, though. Visenya reborn is compelling in her own right, and the story's been gripping.
Scholar Rhaenyra had the potential to be really fun, but ngl I'm glad Hopeless Romantic Warrior!Rhaenyra won. The Scholar plans, from what I have seen, had very uplift-focused vibes, and there's already a glut of uplift ASOIAF stories out there. I'm really enjoying this more character-focused quest where Rhaenyra's dreams and traits sometimes directly oppose what would be practical or diplomatic to do, so we're applying the SV protagonist tendency to work hard 24/7 towards goals that make the people around us go "what in the seven hells?"
 
Scholar Rhaenyra had the potential to be really fun, but ngl I'm glad Hopeless Romantic Warrior!Rhaenyra won. The Scholar plans, from what I have seen, had very uplift-focused vibes, and there's already a glut of uplift ASOIAF stories out there. I'm really enjoying this more character-focused quest where Rhaenyra's dreams and traits sometimes directly oppose what would be practical or diplomatic to do, so we're applying the SV protagonist tendency to work hard 24/7 towards goals that make the people around us go "what in the seven hells?"
Oh, I totally agree. The actual scholar plans that got any meaningful amount of votes at the time were very much of the canal gremlin variety, and it's entirely for the better we didn't get that. It's more the premise as outlined in the opening post that I think could have been really interesting. Honestly, that kind of character might just never have worked for a quest on SV anyway, considering the tendency to optimize the fun away. The Rhaenyra we actually got did remarkably at building a good story out of those constraints.
 
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Oh, I totally agree. The actual scholar plans that got any meaningful amount of votes at the time were very much of the canal gremlin variety, and it's entirely for the better we didn't get that. It's more the premise as outlined in the opening post that I think could have been really interesting. Honestly, that kind of character might just never have worked for a quest on SV anyway, considering the tendency to optimize the fun away. The Rhaenyra we actually got did remarkably at building a good story out of those constraints.
I'm just imagining a bunch of serious-looking people doing an overview of her situation and goals like
"Sir! It is vitally important that we find someone to kiss!"
"Scanning the social circle for candidates... Match found. Our actions?"
"Deploy the Heartfelt Confession. Prepare to court our fair maiden."
 
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