An advisor who gives out provably false information won't be an advisor for long. We can probably trust the words he says but verifying that nothing's been left out/exaggerated before making a final pick would be wise.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
An advisor who gives out provably false information won't be an advisor for long. We can probably trust the words he says but verifying that nothing's been left out/exaggerated before making a final pick would be wise.
At this point, i trust Otto advice...
Well, i was abaout to say as far as Rhaenyra can throw him. But that is probably a considerable distance.
Anyway, i don't trust Otto not to try to manipulate Rhaenyra. Or even try begin subtle abaout it.
I mean, considering what he did with Alicent and Viserys. I don't think his advice with political matches would really be sound, even if he wasn't trying to control Rhaenyra for his own ends.
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Just realized there wasn't the option to spend an action on the proposals from the Night's Watch. Is that an error @Teen Spirit ?
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- Lake Wobegon
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- He/Him/His
More likely it's something we've already decided on doing and will just be reported in an update rather than requiring an additional vote.
Maybe in the context of the conversation we just voted to have with Daddy, maybe otherwise.
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Sorry, should have clarified that is something that will be brought up with Viserys when talking to him.
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I trust Otto to do whatever he thinks benefits himself and the Hightowers the most. Figuring out what exactly that is and taking it into account for how his advice is acting to further his interests is what we need to keep in mind. For example like what Teen Spirit said here there are two obvious angles for what his advice regarding a marriage with Qoren would be aiming to push for.
I don't know how in the loop Gwayne and Alicent with Otto's plan but extra insight can't miss.
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- Lake Wobegon
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Alicent has sworn up and down to us that she was not in on Otto's plan for Viserys, at least. We must choose to believe her.
Agree. I just mean his current general plan. Knowledge from living under the same roof, what he is getting up to, new habit. Things like that we can infer something from.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Importantly, the Night's Watch situation is important but not urgent. If Viserys decides "I'd better send a royal commissioner up there to talk to everyone, get depositions, go over the accounts, and make a decision that checks out" and it takes like five years to finish this because first they wait for Winter to be over and then it's a huge amount of travel and bureaucracy, well... That's not actually a cripplingly big deal. The Night's Watch isn't just going to disintegrate immediately, even if clearly the situation as it stands is bad for them and the New Gift was a mistake.
Even if Otto feeds us pure BS about the difficulty of conquering Dorne or the current state of Dornish foreign policy, we'll at least get a decent picture of how the average Reacher lord feels about a Dornish marriage because he is a Reacher lord.
Although I don't think this alone is worth an Otto action, because we kind of know the answer already. They'd hate it.
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The Night's Watch is probably the least urgent problem we have right now. Unless Teen Spirit decides to troll us by making the Others show up next turn.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
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- Earth, Northern Europe
We should try to mend fences with Otto Hightower anyway, Rhaenyra might as well discuss her marriage prospects with him, or the matter of Dorne. He may be a shady man, but he's still the Hand of the King, a shrewd politician, and Alicent's father, so I'd rather work with him. Well, fortunately, we have the same enemy - Damon.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
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- Coleraine
Daemon is just one of our enemies. Corlys is still a bit leery about us, due to our interference in the marriage matter (and would probably hate us, if we don't pick Laenor). There is also the matter of any future children, Queen Johanna may have.
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- Spain
Hey, we offered him a great deal that would have given him and his family everything that they wanted in echange of an rather small concession (which I am sure that both Rhaenys and Laena would have been glad to comply), and he rejected it because he was too prideful settle with a "merely" 95% victory...
That is on him and only on him...
Well, if narrative has anything to do with the number, age and/or gender of the babies, Johanna's first male chid in the books was born when both of his sisters were teenagers, so I doubt that the realm is going to rally agaisnt us behind a literal child...
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- Mid-Atlantic
Well yes, but it is importantly also now Viserys' problem, not ours. The point was just that other than making sure that Rhaenyra has actually carried through on her promise to tell Viserys about the situation and the opinions of some of the lower-ranking people involved, it's not really her job to worry about it.
The only exception to this is if some very well-regarded adult with a lot of power and influence is pressing the child's claim to the throne with the clear intention of acting as regent.
This is basically what Tywin Lannister tried to do against Robert Baratheon's brothers, since everyone involved knew perfectly well that Joffrey (and later Tommen) weren't actually in charge.
The question would then be, who would be pursuing the claim of Johanna's hypothetical grandson at our expense? Honestly, Daemon seems to be a likely contender, because he'd get to be king in all but name for many years in a situation like that. So, arguably, is Corlys, especially since if he has any suitable-aged granddaughters he could marry them off to the boy king and get a lock on the dynastic situation.
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- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
I know no analogy is ever perfect, but there is a big difference: Joffrey was the expected heir. Renly's and Stannis' claim about his parentage were right, as things were, but really, that was some outrageous claim probably not believed by all too many. So, really, Joffrey being crowned was just going down the expected line of succession, while Renly and Stannis established rival claims (based on a justification that turned out to be actually true, but still, rival claims).
Meanwhile, in our case, we are the expected heir and the line of succession as it is expected to go down. On account of our sex, people could justify alternate claims - but it would indeed be those with the alternate claims then. Basically, in a way, any rivals making a claim on behalf of a child half-brother would be more akin to Renly's Stormlands/Reach alliance.
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I mean, you're right. I'm just saying that if we DO see a threat early in Rhaenyra's reign from a much younger half-brother of hers, that's the form it's going to take. It's going to be someone, Corlys or Daemon or both or separately Otto or who-knows-who, trying to advance the boy's claim among people who really, really just don't want Rhaenyra to be in charge and are willing to disregard the expected line of succession to avoid that outcome.
Like, looking at the quest alone, I imagine that Unwin Peake would absolutely back a prominent nobleman who was trying to give the Iron Throne over to a two-year-old boy, if it meant not having Rhaenyra as his queen.
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- Spain
In any case if we have a little brother down the line we have to make sure never that he is never sent to squire at Driftmark, the Reach, or wherever Damon is at that moment, even if we have a great loving with him he could still be used by our enemies either as a puppet or a hostage...
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
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- Coleraine
So, we should him to The Vale then.
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- Spain
Yeah, but the North is also a good option (or Dorne if we manage to pull out a Daeron the Good)
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- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
To take over teen spirit's usual role here: We have no power to marry off other people, nor to decide where their kids will go squire
Though I think squiring is not that common for Targaryen Princes anyway. Most of them seem to just get trained at the Red Keep or on Dragonstone. Westerosi knighthood is shockingly un-institutionalized. Squiring exists, but there are none of the rather strict traditions and requirements around knighthood that existed during its RL European height. Nothing like having to serve as a page for so and so many years at a foreign keep/court and so and so many years as a squire. Which I guess comes down to the usual thing of GRRM just not caring about certain things, but also how much he drew from 15th century England in specific, when knighthood had lost most of its old standing already.
But yeah, bottom line is - we have no authority over squiring, but most Targ princes are trained at arms at home anyway.
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- Spain
Yeah I know, but we have a lot of soft power with Viserys and he is likely to listen to Rhaenyra in this matter...
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Rhaenyra is not head of her house and Viserys will not do everything you want him to do, no matter how high Rhaenyra's relationship with him is, or how ideal a solution may be. And even if he agrees with Rhaenyra he may not force an issue, even if you want him to.To take over teen spirit's usual role here: We have no power to marry off other people, nor to decide where their kids will go squire