Toaster cult
I Am An Imaginary Living Body
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[X] Split the Hunting Party, Follow Rhea.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
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Valyrian steel is notoriously light compared to other swords. Even one of Ice's size would at best be perhaps a quarter to a third heavier than her normal blade? Nothing she should struggle with.
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Ahh right I forgot that Valyrian Steel was lighter. Though, that much lighter? Because Ice is a massive chunk of metal.
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Joffery, spoiled lazy brat he was, could lift half of ice without notable difficulty. Rhaenyra is much stronger.
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Well then, just ignore that bit.
Wich is another reason is weird Ice is never used in battle in the books.
Because from the description in the books, while its a big greatsword, its not so big that using it in combat would be unreasonable.
You can just say that George Martin didn't know enough abaout greatswords when he wrote the books.
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I mean, the real reason Ice is never used in battle in the main novels is that Ned Stark carries it on his person right up until he's imprisoned in a coup, and after that he's dead and it falls into Lannister hands and they scrap it and use the metal for two smaller swords.
Ned never really gets a chance to fight with it, except maybe if he'd been carrying it during that one time when he and a few of his retainers were attacked in King's Landing, and I don't think he was expecting trouble then.
Ned never really gets a chance to fight with it, except maybe if he'd been carrying it during that one time when he and a few of his retainers were attacked in King's Landing, and I don't think he was expecting trouble then.
We don't know how House Stark aquired Ice, but if they actually paid the ridiculous price for such a big Valyrian Steel sword, then using it only as ceremonial sword seems like a bit of a waste, but then again it's a really good symbol of authority.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Valyrian Steel is valued more for its prestige then for its battle utility anyway. Lords wouldn't be willing to pay that much for what's a marginally better sword if all they cared about was how much it helps in battle.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
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I actually thought Rhaenyra was talking about the metaphysical weight of the execution decision here, rather than the physical weight of the sword itself. As noted, Valyrian steel is unusually light, and even regular two-handed swords don't weigh that much, 3kg on average, because you still need to be able to swing them quickly.
It's certainly a status item, but the usefulness of a sword that can't break or dull is hard to overstate. It can be sharpened far beyond what's reasonable for a normal weapon, and even if you wield it carelessly over the course of a long battle, its edge won't deteriorate. Given that in the medieval system, a feudal lord is a warrior first and a ruler second, weapons are very important.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I'm not denying that Valyrian steel swords are of higher quality and better than normal swords, but the reason why Tywin couldn't find someone willing to sell their Valyrian steel sword for a fortune that could probably buy many times over the sword's military utility in multiple swords and suits of armor isn't just because Valyrian steel swords are that much better at swording.
You can think of it as something akin to modern day status symbols like a Rolex or a Ferrari. Those may well be finely crafted watches and cars that function somewhat better than their counterparts, but the reason why people are willing to pay for them many times over what they would normally pay for a watch or a car isn't because isn't just because they're that much better as watches or cars compared to other brands.
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There's also the irreplaceability of Valyrian steel to take into account. Ever since the Doom, nobody is known to able to forge brand new Valyrian steel, at most reshape existing pieces, which drastically raises the swords' value.
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I mean, Valyrian Steel swords can cut through plate armor, wich normal swords absolutely can't do.
That is a pretty big advantage in a fight, and makes who owns such a weapon way more likely to survive a battle.
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We don't see that happen in canon, IIRC. I think this is just popular fanon, but of course fair game to include in a quest if the QM likes it.
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To survive a relatively small brawl, maybe. If you're a Westerosi lord using a Valyrian steel sword in battle you've probably lost your primary armament and maybe been knocked off your horse and/or out of your formation, and make a terrific target to be mobbed and overwhelmed (not just for the aforementioned reasons, but also because your kit makes for unparalleled plunder).
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In canon we have Jon cutting straight through Bronze armour with no effort, and Brienne stabbing through chain mail (not a gap in the chain, through the mail itself). Those are the two main ones from canon. I believe that the world book also makes reference to VS cutting through a steel helmet? Bronze armour is obviously not steel, and chain mail is not plate armour, but as I understand it if you do the maths these are comparably hard things to do.
Those are the first examples that come to mind. I think people sometimes do mix this together with the canon feat that Dawn does break a steel sword in a duel. Dawn is not VS, but is regularly compared to VS Steel in the text.
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I do not think these are comparable, bronze is softer than steel, and stabbing through chain is easier than plate. And also of course stabbing is considerably better at defeating armor than cutting or slashing.
Another sword shattering probably tells us more about a flaw in that swords construction than any merit in the one it shattered against, unless were speculating that they have some mystical sword-shattering property outside of just their strength and hardness (like the Other's blades seem to by cooling other blades and thereby making them more brittle).
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Let me quote some reddit post discussing this
"It should be noted that bronze armor is pretty good. It can have a Vickers hardness of anywhere from 60 to 258 depending on how you forge it. Wrought Iron is 30-80 and carbon steel 55-120. It would take superhuman strength to do what Jon, a lean teenager, did with a regular steel sword, and such a blow would probably completely destroy a regular blade."
Now I am not a metallurgist, and definitely not a historian. But from my amateur understanding, for an awful lot of medieval history bronze was often of "higher quality" than iron / steel, its just that Iron was far far more abundant. So like we have zero idea how good quality the average Thenn's bronze armour is versus some fancy noble in plate, but either way Jon should not be able to cut through the bronze the way he canonically does
As I understand it, this frequently happened whenever Arthur used Dawn based on various people's memories of his fights.
I do reiterate again though that Dawn is not VS I was just bringing it up as an extra detail. Dawn was forged from a fallen star and is 100% magical some way or another. Depending on how you want to interpret various metaphors, myths, and mysteries it has even odds of being the original Lightbringer. Its 1000s of years old and has not you know decayed.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
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- Canada
The worth of a single sword, no matter how good it is, would generally not be enough sway the outcome of any battle larger than a small skirmish between a dozen men on its lonesome
If you could equip everyone in your army with Valyrian steel, or even just an elite group within your army with it, that would be a different story
But a single guy, even the best warrior with the best equipment in the world, can only do so much
Certainly not worth a fortune that could be spent raising and equipping an actual army, or building a new castle keep and grounds
Not on just its objective value as a single sword in battle
It's primary value is as a rarified status symbol
And that makes any activity that risks losing a Valyrian sword less attractive
You don't want some battlefield scavenger or maybe even your hated enemy taking it from you
That's exactly what happened with Ice after all
Stabbing through chain isn't too great a feat
Less impressive than the bronze actually
I assume that when you emphasize stabbing through the chain itself rather than through the gap that you're saying the sword actually broke the interlocked chain links rather than just slipping between the rings
But that's what swords (and daggers) normally do when you stab them through chain mail, unless we go really thin like a particularly thin rapier (which would be anachronistic with most chainmail)
They have to break apart the chain links as they pass because they're too wide to fit more than maybe half an inch of the point into the "gaps"
Though to be fair, chain mail wasn't like tissue paper just because you stabbed rather than cut, it still offered resistance that could save your life
Especially in actual battle where people getting stabbed moved backwards or twisted to the side or just generally fought back in ways that could cause the stable to deflect off the mail rather than standing like unresisting target dummies
So a Valyrian blade stabbing through chainmail easily is still a mark of quality
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Of course, that is also true of Valyrian Steel. Valyrian steel always keeps its edge. You never need to resharpen it. Which is good, because you sharpen a sword by cutting particles off it, and no more Valyrian steel can be produced, of course. But yeah, this "never decaying", Dawn and Valyrian steel swords have that in common.
Also, fun fact, Dawn is most certainly a reference to Dorn of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, one the Three Swords (of those names) of the setting, also forged from a star fallen from heaven. GRRM said he had been desillusioned with classical fantasy until MS&T showed him what can still be done with it. Seeing as MS&T is my personal favourite fantasy series, I am partial to Dawn...
...well okay, I'm also a Dorne fanboy but you know, apart from that.
...no? That's the entire point of chainmail. Normal steel will bounce right off it.
So why the change to plate then? Because chainmail still had weak spots that were difficult to cover, like (IIRC) t he armpits etc. As well, it still is not as protective against blunt weapons like maces - of course you can use blunt weapons to dangerously dent plate armour as well, but it would be even worse with chainmail.
But against cutting blades and sharp points, chainmail will in fact hold. Valyrian steel cutting through the rings is indeed showing the ultra-sharp (and never blunting) edge of that particular sort of steel.
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I'm sure Teen Spirit won't give us or one of our companions an easy-to-acquire injury that leaves our party stranded in a narrow place far from help. That would never happen.