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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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CharlieKing said:
if we can ease up on the knight training now, i do think we should put some time into putting out feelers for ppl to recruit for our personal household/retinue.
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That's not how it works. The world is not a buffet from which we can pick spy characters. If we encounter one we consider crafty we can try to form connections, but we can't just go out to t hem t o connect them like pokemon. And also... Larys Clubfoot? The guy who killed his entire family in the show? Or alternatively the woman who in the books watched her whole family killed by Aemond and then hooked up with him?

Of those people, Mysaria would be the only palatable one and she is still with Daemon. But more to the point, we can't just start recruitment missions for them like this is Mass Effect 2!
 
Susano said:
That's not how it works. The world is not a buffet from which we can pick spy characters. If we encounter one we consider crafty we can try to form connections, but we can't just go out to t hem t o connect them like pokemon. And also... Larys Clubfoot? The guy who killed his entire family in the show? Or alternatively the woman who in the books watched her whole family killed by Aemond and then hooked up with him?

Of those people, Mysaria would be the only palatable one and she is still with Daemon. But more to the point, we can't just start recruitment missions for them like this is Mass Effect 2!
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I was looking forward to Dossier: Lannisport though :(
 
Honestly, a big part of why I'd like to marry Gwayne is that Otto is decent at intrigue and that would get that skill on our side. Even if he did outsource an unfortunate amount of that to Larys and Mysaria.
 
Susano said:
That's not how it works. The world is not a buffet from which we can pick spy characters. If we encounter one we consider crafty we can try to form connections, but we can't just go out to t hem t o connect them like pokemon.
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i didn't say anything about collecting them like pokemon?
but it's a fact that we (understandably) have been monofocusing on knight training, and have therefore missed opportunities to explore cities or meet characters that could fit this role (like, i wouldn't be shocked if choosing to sneak out and explore Kinglanding disguised opened the chance to put us into contact with someone of that nature)

Susano said:
And also... Larys Clubfoot? The guy who killed his entire family in the show? Or alternatively the woman who in the books watched her whole family killed by Aemond and then hooked up with him?
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i am aware of what they do in canon. i am throwing out ideas, not commiting to one out of those three. if you have other ppl in mind i am all ears.
sidenote: for argument's sake, has either of them actually done something of that nature yet that we the readers or Rhaenyra would know about?

Susano said:
we can't just start recruitment missions for them like this is Mass Effect 2!
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again, i didn't say anything about recruitment missions? i am not saying we need to go on some long quest chain to recruit a specific character for our spymaster/mistress role. i don't care if it's none of the three.

it's just that intrigue is not something Rhaenyra (or anyone in her inner circle, really) is specced for but Daemon is and that makes me a little nervous.
 
Wiggy said:
I mean, his assassination attempt ended in a random dead baby instead of killing the person he actually meant to kill, so I dunno if he's that intrigue spec'd.
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Sort of. If memory serves Daemon told B&C that if they can't get Aemond then another son would do.

That aside though, his ability to ensure a swift and successful occupation of Kingslanding by subverting the city guard was an utterly brilliant act of intrigue, much more so then B&C, either way.
 
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Could always try to get someone from Essos, sure it'll be difficult finding someone competent but at least they won't have loyalties to local powers.
 
Teen Spirit said:
Rare is the master of whispers who can be completely trusted.
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Dark Abstraction said:
The eternal issue with spymasters; if you can trust them, they're not good at their job, and if they're good at their job, you can't trust them.
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Very much so...

View: https://youtu.be/8xIxrx5i1To?t=15
Teen Spirit said:
I would like to point out there's been no sightings of her since the incident on Dragonstone. You don't know where she is.
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No offense to Mysaria, but she is just a mildly exotic-looking lowborn and that's a dime a dozen in King's Landing... If there have been no sightings of Mysaria is probably because no one bothers to look for her

We may find her in one of our escapades through KL though
Susano said:
Larys Clubfoot? The guy who killed his entire family in the show? Or alternatively the woman who in the books watched her whole family killed by Aemond and then hooked up with him?
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I totally agree with you about Larys, but there is no confirmation about Alys Rivers being related to the house Strong beyond working for them... So there is that.
And besides that Zimmerwald1915 has a great point here
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Alys didn't take the opportunity to poison us, at least.
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Wiggy said:
I consider literally none of those 3 trustworthy, really.
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Well in the books Mysaria was pretty loyal and died in the service of Rhaenyra...
 
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Temes1066 said:
The city guard had been Daaemon's for many years, it wasn't that brillant.
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It's pretty brilliant when your enemies are the ones in control of the city, and still fail to root out your men from it. The Greens did appoint their own men to command the guard, Daemon's loyalists just hid under their nose and proceeded to pull a coup when the Black army was coming.

Like, by any measure, pulling a successful coup that results in you taking the enemy capital near effortlessly is about as big an intrigue achievement as those can get.

Edit: If you gave Daemon a CK2 stat sheet I'd imagine it would be something like this

Diplomacy: 3
Martial: 18
Stewardship 15
Intrigue: 25
Learning: 16

With single digits representing someone who is just legit incompetent in a field, the teens representing an unexceptional professional, the twenties representing someone who is one of the best in the field currently alive, and the thirties being reserved for people who are legit contenders for the greatest of all times in their field.
 
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Teen Spirit said:
Rare is the master of whispers who can be completely trusted.
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People that lie and invade other's privacy for a living aren't typicaly trustworthy or possess a great moral character?

Shocking....

HeWhoLurks said:
Could always try to get someone from Essos, sure it'll be difficult finding someone competent but at least they won't have loyalties to local powers.
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Yeah, that worked out so well for the Mad King...
 
Who is the current master of whispers now? Are they friendly-ish to rhaenyra or just neutral?

I kinda prefer alys from the 3 mentioned.
 
From the wiki about Daemon's coup in Kingslanding:
With Criston Cole, Aemond Targaryen, and Vhagar away from King's Landing, Daemon Targaryen and Caraxes joined with Rhaenyra on Syrax above the capital, while Corlys Velaryon's ships sailed into Blackwater Bay. Grand Maester Orwyle, trying to dispatch ravens asking for help, was arrested before any letters could be sent. Riders bearing messages were arrested at the city gates, and the seven captains commanding the gates we killed or arrested, all by those gold cloaks still loyal to Daemon, who had once commanded them. The city gates were opened for the men arriving with the Velaryon fleet. King's Landing fell in less than a day.[6]​
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The coup didn't just involve the conspirators taking over the city while killing their High Tower appointed commanders, but also, successfully, making sure that no messangers could leave the city in time to warn Aemond so he could come back to defend the city while opening the city gates for the Blacks.

Definitely a 10/10 intrigue achievement.
 
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CharlieKing said:
if we can ease up on the knight training now, i do think we should put some time into putting out feelers for ppl to recruit for our personal household/retinue.

an intrigue focused character would be useful [im very curious about what the Westerlings are up to or what they think about Rhaenyra, for example.] but the hard part is verifying them as trustworthy (or at least someone with a vested interest in our success as queen).

off the top of my head, options are:
  • Alys Rivers
  • Mysaria
  • Larys Strong
Am i missing someone? Anyone we pick would also need to be someone we're sure won't out Rhaenyra and Alicent.
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Mysaria isn't obviously trustworthy but might actually convinced to help and have a vested interest in our success- at least to the point where our enemies would struggle to outbid us.

To me, it seems that within the broader context of Planetos and its magic, Alys Rivers is fairly likely to be serving a supernatural patron or agenda of some kind. Having her as a mistress of whispers or something related is a bit like having Melisandre as a mistress of whispers. It will work out quite well for you if your continued success serves the interests of whatever higher power she serves or thinks she serves. But if that changes, or even if it doesn't, things may get really ugly and the drawbacks of her using her magic may make things worse in the long run.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
To me, it seems that within the broader context of Planetos and its magic, Alys Rivers is fairly likely to be serving a supernatural patron or agenda of some kind. Having her as a mistress of whispers or something related is a bit like having Melisandre as a mistress of whispers. It will work out quite well for you if your continued success serves the interests of whatever higher power she serves or thinks she serves. But if that changes, or even if it doesn't, things may get really ugly and the drawbacks of her using her magic may make things worse in the long run.
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yeah but thats really fun, Narratively its a very interesting choice which is why i wanna ty and poach her
 
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I still feel like the QM will throw enough challenges at us as is. We don't need to make it deliberately harder for ourselves...
 
idk, i dont feel like we have to bumrush fixing all of our issues, Like technically yeah Laenor is politically our best match very obviously, but god is it not more fun to have the long running tesion of Daemon and the Velaryons is much more interesting than the QM having to consistently and constatly introduce new threats, long-runing anagonists are just more fun.

also Aalys wont make life harder for us, she just has interesting shit going on www
 
Toaster cult said:
but god is it not more fun to have the long running tesion of Daemon and the Velaryons is much more interesting than the QM having to consistently and constatly introduce new threats, long-runing anagonists are just more fun.
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That's the thing, they don't have to be long-running antagonists. If they had a coup in mind, they could just do it and make it stick with dragonpower.
 
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