@Temes1066 I see that you swiped Laena for Rhaenys... It may be interesting if she accepts but since she is the regent of Diftmaer while her husband is at war is extremely unlikely that she accepts to be part of the progress...

And I suggest to edit your plan in the post you had it originally, it is a little annoying that it is the only plan that doesn't appear with all the options in the Tally...
 
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Where's the Rhaenyra that chose to dance with Jeyne, regardless of stares and got a big ally, or flew to help Otto against Daemon without fear of reprisal holding us back? Who fought to determine who our Kingsguard is and got Tarly out of it? Or even choosing to pursue Alicent romantically instead of just going for an easier lover to deal with?

You guys don't think the Realm will find it weird when the perfectly polite and feminine princess shows up after years of being a rumored beefcake who can beat her kingsguard? Or that as soon as she enters Kingslanding, the rumors start up again and she is even knighted, although literally no lord outside of the Crownlands has ever seen her fight?
You are conveniently ignoring that Rhaenyra's dreams are not just Knighthood but becoming a Queen as well. We are not saying she has to act as the demure princess, I would even argue for her to not wear a dress at all and go everywhere in dragon-riding leathers to emphasize her martial might as a dragon rider.
Being defiant is not the same as being reckless, much less impatient. The training thing is fine, the tourneys are reckless.
 
Well, Nyra wants to get to know her prospective Husbands before she marries them.

Which is why we should invite Gwayne and Laenor as companions, to get to know them. But do we really need to scout out new options?

If it takes actions or conversations to scout out husbands (by conversing with them first), then we lose actions on anyone we didn't pick. Like say, let's say we get 3 conversations deep with Amos, and then we realize that actually a Bracken isn't an advantageous enough match, and Amos never turns up again, we're 3 convos in the hole.

Honestly, quest logic wise I'd be really surprised if even the first two people we talked to turned to have something about them that made them unacceptable options. Probably we're going to find out the first person we go in depth conversations on it would work out fine. Which also means we don't need to scout around. One of Gwayne, Harwin, or Laenor is almost certainly going to be fine.

And IC: Rhaenyra is a romantic young woman in a honeymoon phase of her relationship probably with Alicent, and also making steady progress toward her dream of knighthood - I really don't think it makes sense for her to be scouting political matches.

There might be options we don't know about after all Fire & Blood didn't really expand upon the families of the many lords and having the Tyrells in our corner for example could be gamechanging.

I think this would be falling victim to a he tyranny of choice, when really the best thing to do is to pick a good option and run with it, rather than trying to figure out who'd be perfect. Especially since we're not trying to find a soulmate, we're trying to find a beard + sperm donor.

There can be multiple reasons for doing this, reinforcing your claim and pushing efforts to make yourself a knight could both be goals for this journey, you could have both at the same time even.

Yeah, I get that. I was mostly thinking that reinforcing our claim was #1, and then we were arguing about what #2 was.
 
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I am slightly confused by this because I thought reinforcing our claim was a big part of why we were doing this. Like, I thought that was the primary point of doing this, and most of the primary goals for the progress we can selected (except introduce Johanna) are doing that in one way or another.



… so are we supposed to never beat them or what?
I thought it was about traveling around attending a bunch of tourney's as a mystery knight personally. Whole reason I'm on board with it.
 
I think this would be falling victim to a he tyranny of choice, when really the best thing to do is to pick a good option and run with it, rather than trying to figure out who'd be perfect. Especially since we're not trying to find a soulmate, we're trying to find a beard + sperm donor.
Beard, sperm donor and ally, any husband must be considered politically as well, Rhaenyra's rule is far from secure.
 
And IC: Rhaenyra is a romantic young woman in a honeymoon phase of her relationship probably with Alicent, and also making steady progress toward her dream of knighthood - I really don't think it makes sense for her to be scouting political matches.
You made a lot of points in your post, so I thought it best to point out that the "like" is for this one.
 
You are conveniently ignoring that Rhaenyra's dreams are not just Knighthood but becoming a Queen as well. We are not saying she has to act as the demure princess, I would even argue for her to not wear a dress at all and go everywhere in dragon-riding leathers to emphasize her martial might as a dragon rider.
Being defiant is not the same as being reckless, much less impatient. The training thing is fine, the tourneys are reckless.
A Queen is destined to be disliked and challenged by men, the route shouldn't be to wring our hands and try not to step on anyone's feet.

Just shows that she's timid enough to not act like a warrior if she thinks people won't like her. Tarly would be ashamed.

Not saying we need to beat every single guy we visit, but trying to portray a picture of "martial might" only to never try to actually show off any of our skills in fear that we'll offend is just...weak.
 
I thought it was about traveling around attending a bunch of tourney's as a mystery knight personally. Whole reason I'm on board with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to do that too. And I do think a tourney circuit is in line with that - if we were a son, then showing up a crushing a bunch of tournaments would undoubtedly reinforce our claim. As we're not, it'll be a bit more mixed, but showing up and crushing tournaments doesn't hurt with showing up on a dragon as the strength and authority of the crown.
 
I think there is an argument for training privately (it would absolutely enhance the drama and renown of our first tourney if we come out of nowhere which I could see appealing to this Rhaenyra), but any relationship gain we get with lords who are opposed to martial women seem temporary at best.
Which is why we should invite Gwayne and Laenor as companions, to get to know them. But do we really need to scout out new options?

If it takes actions or conversations to scout out husbands (by conversing with them first), then we lose actions on anyone we didn't pick. Like say, let's say we get 3 conversations deep with Amos, and then we realize that actually a Bracken isn't an advantageous enough match, and Amos never turns up again, we're 3 convos in the hole.

Honestly, quest logic wise I'd be really surprised if even the first two people we talked to turned to have something about them that made them unacceptable options. Probably we're going to find out the first person we go in depth conversations on it would work out fine. Which also means we don't need to scout around. One of Gwayne, Harwin, or Laenor is almost certainly going to be fine.
Yes Gwayne, Harwin, or Laenor will almost certainly be fine, but so would any of the other romance options. And given that even the longest progress is still only 4 turns, I don't know that we'll be able to spend 3 conversation actions on anybody who is not travelling with us, so I doubt that the action debt will actually come up. It seems unlikely that taking one conversation action to introduce ourselves to Forrest Frey or Amos Bracken or whoever will significantly impact our ability to socialize with other important nobles. And part of the whole point of this is to introduce Rhaenyra to the realm, it seems a little silly to avoid people just because we already have acceptable marriage options.
 
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A Queen is destined to be disliked and challenged by men, the route shouldn't be to wring our hands and try not to step on anyone's feet.

Just shows that she's timid enough to not act like a warrior if she thinks people won't like her. Tarly would be ashamed.

Not saying we need to beat every single guy we visit, but trying to portray a picture of "martial might" only to never try to actually show off any of our skills in fear that we'll offend is just...weak.
But that is the reality, we are weak, we have few allies, no influence and very little legitimacy/support for our claim, showing off right now is completely reckless. Once we have estabilished ourselves more then we can rip the band-aid off.
 
Do any of the plans have Laena in them? I half thought maybe we encourage her to look for potential romance on the road - it could cut off Daemon if she finds someone before him.

Actually wait, how old is she? Maybe that's a lost cause.

I'm also a little dubious about inviting Rhea because she's definitely interested in seducing Rhaenyra and I'm very doubtful Alicent would ever be down for polyamory. That's not a very courtly romance vibe.

A secret forbidden romance while they marry for duty - peak court romance.
 
But that is the reality, we are weak, we have few allies, no influence and very little legitimacy/support for our claim, showing off right now is completely reckless. Once we have estabilished ourselves more then we can rip the band-aid off.

The only way to establish ourselves is in fact to make choices. Unless you're deciding to abandon becoming a Knight, we will in fact have to... become a Knight.
 
@The Laurent I'm working on plan that brings Laena instead of Laenor - I'm very wary of leaving her with only her father on Driftmark if her brother and mother both come with us, that's a prime opportunity for Daemon/Corlys to get ideas.

Even with Vhagar potentially upstaging Syrax, we could spin the Velayrons as close allies and family of the crown.

I don't think you've commented on the Velayron situation yet, and I feel you've a good grasp on the politics so far. Penny for your thoughts?
 
Again, I'm not saying we should never do it, just that we need to focus on building our powerbase first.

Like fundamentally, becoming a Knight will make us enemies... but it also gives us power? Being acknowledged as a shit-kicker will definitely help for any Martial ambitions we have, or indeed that Small Council seat as Commander of the Gold Cloaks or etc, etc.

It's one of our main goals, and it in fact... is part of our potential powerbase? We're going to be Queen at least in part on the back of a vision of us as a brave, honorable, and true Knight (TM), and thus Strong Enough (TM).
 
The only way to establish ourselves is in fact to make choices. Unless you're deciding to abandon becoming a Knight, we will in fact have to... become a Knight.
Well, as someone once said slowing down is not the same as abandoning... I think that everyone here wants for Rhenayra to be anointed as a knight, but some of us think that we will get the most use out of the Royal Progress if we focus on networking instead of chasing tournaments (that we can do in King's Landing).
 
Actually wait, how old is she? Maybe that's a lost cause.

I'm also a little dubious about inviting Rhea because she's definitely interested in seducing Rhaenyra and I'm very doubtful Alicent would ever be down for polyamory. That's not a very courtly romance vibe.
Takes two to tango unless Rhea is also something else that begins with an "r," so we can always turn her down if it comes to that. But Nyra lacks many, and wants, *friends*, and we managed to befriend Rhea last turn. Furthermore, to the extent we have an independent power base, it lies in the Vale, so our travelling court should have some Vale representation.
 
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Like fundamentally, becoming a Knight will make us enemies... but it also gives us power? Being acknowledged as a shit-kicker will definitely help for any Martial ambitions we have, or indeed that Small Council seat as Commander of the Gold Cloaks or etc, etc.

It's one of our main goals, and it in fact... is part of our potential powerbase? We're going to be Queen at least in part on the back of a vision of us as a brave, honorable, and true Knight (TM), and thus Strong Enough (TM).
That is a very optimistic view of things, Brienne was undoubtedly a monster in combat and yet she was relentlessly mocked, Visenya was exactly the kind of warrior-queen we want to be and yet her reputation became that of a witch. I honestly cannot see anyone we might sway by doing this besides maaaaybe the northerners and Dorne, but the comparison itself is toxic.
More importantly it's not like we lose anything by waiting while we risk a lot by doing this now.
 
That is a very optimistic view of things, Brienne was undoubtedly a monster in combat and yet she was relentlessly mocked, Visenya was exactly the kind of warrior-queen we want to be and yet her reputation became that of a witch. I honestly cannot see anyone we might sway by doing this besides maaaaybe the northerners and Dorne, but the comparison itself is toxic.
More importantly it's not like we lose anything by waiting while we risk a lot by doing this now.
We're a sixteen-year-old romantic princess with a dragon, we can dream big.
 
Again, I'm not saying we should never do it, just that we need to focus on building our powerbase first.
How exactly is it gonna effect our powerbase to hide away the thing we're the best at?

The North has female warriors, the Iron Islands has female reavers, the Eyrie is on our side, the Crownlands already very much knows about Rhaenyra's habits. Otto (the tease) is sending both of his kids with us and it's only a matter of time until we finally lock him down (he will be Father-in-law if we have to drag him kicking and screaming.)

The biggest threat is still a Daemon Velaryon alliance, easily solved through marriage.
While Johanna Westerling was a fairly known figure within the Westerlands, she was basically unknown elsewhere in the realm. And from what you hear,d many lords considered her to be simply the King's second wife. Too young and inexperienced to be a true Queen-Consort yet
This doesn't exactly speak to the Westerlands having grown into a massive faction just yet.

I really don't think that showing off is gonna get a massively lop-sided reaction of people flocking to our rivals. And if they do, they were gonna do that anyway.

It's a difference of
- people disliking us because we're a woman
And
- people disliking because we're a woman, but also bedrugingly admitting to our prowess.

The disdain for a female ruler is guaranteed, so do you want to be seen as a badass warrior or a girl who's only good for her dragon?
 
The disdain for a female ruler is guaranteed, so do you want to be seen as a badass warrior or a girl who's only good for her dragon?
Again this fantasy that we will be seen as some badass and not mocked, Brienne was a badass warrior and it did not matter one bit.
Besides that, our dragon is literally the foundation of our House's power it's of paramount importancy if we want to be seen as a martial queen.
 
[X] Plan: Fools Errand
-[X] [Purpose] A Reminder of the Throne's Authority
-[X] [Purpose] Your Introduction to the Realm
-[X] [Goal] Enter a Tourney
-[X] [Goal] Train Privately
-[X] [Goal] Privacy with Alicent
-[X] [Goal] Scout out Prospective Husbands
-[X] [Tour] Full Tour (4 turns, the entire realm)
--[X] Ship to White Harbor
--[X] ship to Winterfell
--[X] Castle Black
--[X] Ship to Barrowton
--[X] Ship to Seaguard
--[X] The Twins
--[X] Riverrun
--[X] Raventree Hall
--[X] Stone Hedge
--[X] Harrenhal
--[X] The Eyrie
--[X] Runestone
--[X] Gulltown
--[X] ship to Rain House
--[X] Storms End
--[X] Blackhaven
--[X] Nightsong
--[X] Horn Hill
--[X] Oldtown
--[X] Highgarden
--[X] Tumbleton
--[X] Goldengrove
--[X] Old Oak
--[X] Ship to Shield Islands
--[X] ship to Pyke
--[X] Ship to Lannisport/Casterly Rock
--[X] Ashemark
--[X] Golden Tooth
--[X] Kings Landing
-[X] [Dragon] Syrax will travel with you
-[X] [Companion] Alicent Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Raylon Tarly
-[X] [Companion] Gwayne Hightower
-[X] [Companion] Rhaenys Targaryen
-[X] [Companion] Laena Velaryon
-[X] [Companion] Rhea Royce
-[X] [Date] Leave immediately (Royal Progress will begin next turn)

I tried to make a plan with private training to be less offensive and bring Laena even with Vhagar but I really can't judge how viable it is, and then I tried to cull the destinations and lost all enthusiasm for trying too late.

Anyway, I dunno

I also think it's a mistake to go for justice instead of reinforcing the crowns authority but sure.
 
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