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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[x] Refuse to negotiate

All due respect to the niceties that the League's offer is only an opener, but it is frankly insulting even on those terms. In the first place, they presume to be able to negotiate for a cession of Bohemia-Moravia, when the representatives of its people, and the representatives of the Republic's, have already agreed to a union. In the second place, setting aside Bohemia-Moravia, the Habsburgs have put only three marginal provinces on the table, those being the provinces of Austrian Silesia. And they have failed utterly to recognize the stinging defeat they were dealt by the Spanish and Italians with any concessions at all.

We also need to take back Lublin and Lvov, at least, if Poland's freedom is not to be mutilated.
 
[X] Enter into negotiations.

Anything to avoid more needless deaths, we can always come back for round 2 after tesions have settled and gains have been consolidated.
 
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So my broad idea is we need a poison pill offer that they can't accept but makes us look better to the Entente than flat out rejecting.

I want all of Cisleithania and Poland + Prussia which I don't see them accepting.
 
Our industry was stronger to begin with, and now we have occupied large parts of the enemy's industrial heartlands. So I doubt they'll be able to get all that much use out of a ceasefire. The military balance of power will only further shift in our favor.

And winter is a poor season for an offensive anyway. So why not take a short break?

[X] Enter into negotiations.

Two possible outcomes here - they either accept our harsh conditions for peace (the dissolution of the Hapsburg monarchy is the central demand I have in mind) and we win the war at the negotiating table, or, more likely, they refuse, and we continue the war in spring while taking less of a diplomatic hit.
 
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01paradox01 said:
Hardly. Vienna, as Étranger stated earlier, is a symbol of the imperial project of the Hapsburgs. With it gone, it's very likely to collapse the rest of the empire. It's not like any of the other parts of the empire like Hungary would be happy hosting the hapsburgs.
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Which still leavues russia's vast colonial empire and the likely possibility that the states that secede Austria's remaining territory are prety awful ones due to russia's containing influence in the region, which they'll be much more capable of resisting any intervention to stop due the rise trench warfare.
 
Sara said:
Which still leavues russia's vast colonial empire and the likely possibility that the states that secede Austria's remaining territory are prety awful ones due to russia's containing influence in the region, which they'll be much more capable of resisting any intervention to stop due the rise trench warfare.
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We were never collapsing the Russian empire in this war. Also,your assumption presumes Germany and Italy would just let them do that, which is patently false. We have decidedly crushed the russians, which means our influence in Eastern Europe and the Balkans will skyrocket.
 
Welp, it was pretty much spelt out before the thread's very eyes, but the negative reaction towards our annexation of Bohemia-Moravia is here. Why didn't we wait until the war was over?

EDIT: Etranger posts faster than I can write comments.

On one hand, my cowardly bourgeois anti-revolutionary brain likes to present at least a fig leaf of peace, if only on humanitarian grounds and so that we can clown even harder on them later while we show the international community (read: the Entente) that we're civilised people who want peace and prosperity for all no, really. Why are you running away?

On the other hand, we have a very clear military advantage owing to the fact that the Russians have decided to paint Eastern Poland red with their own (conscripts') blood and that the Habsburgs have lost the 'Austria' part of 'Austria-Hungary', and I don't really think that the League is in a position to negotiate right now (their initial peace offering would require us to give up HALF of our currently occupied territory; the GALL!). Also, I really hate m*narchists. Have I ever told you how much I hate m*narchists?

After a long moment of contemplation, pondered reading of the thread, and a sophisticated method of coming to a final decision (i.e.: repeatedly flipping a 2 euro coin), I have decided to vote for the less (immediately) fire-and-brimstone option. I am still very much undecided, and my vote could (and probably will) be subject to change.

[X] Enter into negotiations.
 
While the Russians and Austrians may be able to copy our defensive tactics, let us remember that both of their empires sit on massive disparities of wealth, corruption, ethnic and religious tensions and incompetence from the military and civil government. These are all ways we can exploit a future situation. Right now my concern that the Russians will continue to use men as cannon fodder as they have in the past to wear us down.

Right now we need time to build up our supplies and integrate the liberated territories. Also, we need to keep a close eye on the Entente, for I feel if they sense we are becoming too strong they may decide to intervene either with direct military force or supporting the Imperial League with supplies and credit.
 
[X] Refuse to negotiate.

Tbh this war has been remarkably easy, let's not give them time to prepare and make the next one harder.
 
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Sara said:
Which still leavues russia's vast colonial empire and the likely possibility that the states that secede Austria's remaining territory are prety awful ones due to russia's containing influence in the region, which they'll be much more capable of resisting any intervention to stop due the rise trench warfare.
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We aren't going to destroy Russia's ability to project power in this war anyway, and any states in the Balkans are going to be far more influenced by us and Italy, since we just beat the fuck out of Austria+Russia.

That said, the point of going into negotiations for me is to provide a justification to hold off entente intervention and continue the war. We need international opinion to be on our side for as long as possible and negotiating is the way to do that.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Us keeping Vienna is explicitly on the table.
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What? All the update says is that further concessions are possible. I don't think us gobbling up Austria is a reasonable read for that.

Lord Cheddar said:
Welp, it was pretty much spelt out before the thread's very eyes, but the negative reaction towards our annexation of Bohemia-Moravia is here. Why didn't we wait until the war was over?
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Because the people of Bohemia asked for it now, not later?

Lord Cheddar said:
On one hand, my cowardly bourgeois anti-revolutionary brain likes to present at least a fig leaf of peace, if only on humanitarian grounds and so that we can clown even harder on them later while we show the international community (read: the Entente) that we're civilised people who want peace and prosperity for all no, really. Why are you running away?

On the other hand, we have a very clear military advantage owing to the fact that the Russians have decided to paint Eastern Poland red with their own (conscripts') blood and that the Habsburgs have lost the 'Austria' part of 'Austria-Hungary', and I don't really think that the League is in a position to negotiate right now (their initial peace offering would require us to give up HALF of our currently occupied territory; the GALL!). Also, I really hate m*narchists. Have I ever told you how much I hate m*narchists?

After a long moment of contemplation, pondered reading of the thread, and a sophisticated method of coming to a final decision (i.e.: repeatedly flipping a 2 euro coin), I have decided to vote for the less (immediately) fire-and-brimstone option. I am still very much undecided, and my vote could (and probably will) be subject to change.

[X] Enter into negotiations.
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I think this is pretty much it: goodwill if we're seen to be negotiating a bit and slowing down versus the advantage of hitting Russia just after it fell on its face.

But I'm not sure the goodwill is real if we aren't seen to negotiate in good will, and considering how flimsy our casus belli was, it's going to be very hard to look reasonable by non revolutionary standards and still keep the war going. I think it's a lost cause and not worth losing the initiative.
 
01paradox01 said:
We were never collapsing the Russian empire in this war. Also,your assumption presumes Germany and Italy would just let them do that, which is patently false.
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I don't think we are either, but I definitely we can free more territory and place more pressure on them to encourage future rebellion in the baltic. I also don't so much think we'd let them do that so much as like, be incapable of stoping them due to the whole 'war turning into a hellscape slog where hundreds of thousands lose their lives to move the front by a handful of miles' like it did OTL, and which just happened on the other front as shown by Vogel. Their's no particularly reason tot think Russia and it's puppets wouldn't prepare to use similar tactics given they've been rapidly learning ho to copy our defensive strategems the whole war.
 
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