- Location
- NA
Oh~ I do love it when an idiot gets reminded that yes, the heroes do in fact choose not to kill, it's not that they can't.
So like....a normal Tuesday for a DC hero?(I'm mosty joking.)
Project: Gamer Ver. 2 (Young Justice/Gamer/Multicross OC)
- Thread starter Mister Ficser
- Start date
AClockworkAbyss
*Tick*...*Tick*...*Tick*...*Crit*
Fic name?
All this bitching about Penny not asking Alchemist for help when he's so "available". Look at the answers he actually gives her.
He's constantly speaking in riddles or inside jokes for answers to almost every one of her questions. Inside jokes that require out of context knowledge that even a thirteen year old in our world wouldn't get.
I'm not even sure if he's actively sabotaging her or not in a way that he can still say "I never lied or failed to answer her once!" If he didn't do it to everyone I'd say he holds a grudge.
He's constantly speaking in riddles or inside jokes for answers to almost every one of her questions. Inside jokes that require out of context knowledge that even a thirteen year old in our world wouldn't get.
I'm not even sure if he's actively sabotaging her or not in a way that he can still say "I never lied or failed to answer her once!" If he didn't do it to everyone I'd say he holds a grudge.
I suggest an alternative - give her Warframe. Sanity is overrated anyway.
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
The Lex fic recommended was good barring the blatant Author Insert and the Lex/Mercy/AuIn romance subplot... and the Luthor wank.
Tiffany is a preteen getting shafted coming and going by the people who should really be better at helping her. I would almost rather her snapping and becoming a Villain at this point. Except she probably knows she'll get folded easily. Because she's the butt of a joke by the author. A bad, personal in joke only they're finding funny now. A real big difference between Tiffany and Jinx is that AL and Jinx were trapped together in Quest hell for subjective months... and Jinx fell hard into Stockholm syndrome and is rarely argumentative towards Al's bullshit. And Alchemist does not react well to being questioned. Oh he's not violent or angry about it, but he IS constantly passive-aggressive and flippant whenever someone has a legitimate 'hold on what?' question followed by avoiding all follow ups with distractions and chores.
Readers are complaining about Tiffany not learning or growing but... we aren't following Tiffany constantly, and Alchemist is also failing hard on the 'grow the fuck up' scale. It's aggravating to me that Alchemist is largely being a hypocrit when you compare his condemnation of Gamers to what he's been doing. For all the examples set out for what makes a Bad Gamer, Alchemist is checking off or in the process of checking off alot of boxes.
Gamer Mind/Body causing severe personality difficulties alienating them from the world they're in? Alchemist has both Undefined Spectrum combined with changing his body/species/soul.
Rampant power grinding and/or quests to exclusion of all else? GUESS WHAT. There's good reasons WHY, doesn't change the factual WHAT.
Leveraging some Cheat ability to break the setting? Game Shop + Crafting. Any balance check on those was promptly rendered nonexistent through his 'harem'.
Gamer builds a Harem to flaunt and fulfill his base desires? Jinx, Kary, Yuffie, the Puppers, the Puppets, the God Village. All living isolated enclaves apparently dependent on Alchemist.
What's most infuriating to me, right now however, is just how fucking insulting Alchemist is towards the settings. Its seriously getting to Zoat levels. Every single setting Alchemist interacts with, he shits on. He gives snarky insults about the who what where why 's, takes what he wants, breaks A Hell Of A LOT in the process, and fucks off. His 'solving things better' also tends to devolve into shortcutting the End Boss without addressing the issues of the surrounding characters... probably because involves Actual Social Interaction (ew). I'm definitely wanting to see him try and shortcut through a setting and have it just Bad End with him getting Nothing out of it. And hurting from something more than 'wasted time that doesn't matter, Instant Quest'. I Want It To Hurt.
But that's myself right now. I still like reading the fic. I still want it to continue. I'm not dropping it from disgust and frustration like I have With This Ring. I just want it to be better than it seems set on being.
Tiffany is a preteen getting shafted coming and going by the people who should really be better at helping her. I would almost rather her snapping and becoming a Villain at this point. Except she probably knows she'll get folded easily. Because she's the butt of a joke by the author. A bad, personal in joke only they're finding funny now. A real big difference between Tiffany and Jinx is that AL and Jinx were trapped together in Quest hell for subjective months... and Jinx fell hard into Stockholm syndrome and is rarely argumentative towards Al's bullshit. And Alchemist does not react well to being questioned. Oh he's not violent or angry about it, but he IS constantly passive-aggressive and flippant whenever someone has a legitimate 'hold on what?' question followed by avoiding all follow ups with distractions and chores.
Readers are complaining about Tiffany not learning or growing but... we aren't following Tiffany constantly, and Alchemist is also failing hard on the 'grow the fuck up' scale. It's aggravating to me that Alchemist is largely being a hypocrit when you compare his condemnation of Gamers to what he's been doing. For all the examples set out for what makes a Bad Gamer, Alchemist is checking off or in the process of checking off alot of boxes.
Gamer Mind/Body causing severe personality difficulties alienating them from the world they're in? Alchemist has both Undefined Spectrum combined with changing his body/species/soul.
Rampant power grinding and/or quests to exclusion of all else? GUESS WHAT. There's good reasons WHY, doesn't change the factual WHAT.
Leveraging some Cheat ability to break the setting? Game Shop + Crafting. Any balance check on those was promptly rendered nonexistent through his 'harem'.
Gamer builds a Harem to flaunt and fulfill his base desires? Jinx, Kary, Yuffie, the Puppers, the Puppets, the God Village. All living isolated enclaves apparently dependent on Alchemist.
What's most infuriating to me, right now however, is just how fucking insulting Alchemist is towards the settings. Its seriously getting to Zoat levels. Every single setting Alchemist interacts with, he shits on. He gives snarky insults about the who what where why 's, takes what he wants, breaks A Hell Of A LOT in the process, and fucks off. His 'solving things better' also tends to devolve into shortcutting the End Boss without addressing the issues of the surrounding characters... probably because involves Actual Social Interaction (ew). I'm definitely wanting to see him try and shortcut through a setting and have it just Bad End with him getting Nothing out of it. And hurting from something more than 'wasted time that doesn't matter, Instant Quest'. I Want It To Hurt.
But that's myself right now. I still like reading the fic. I still want it to continue. I'm not dropping it from disgust and frustration like I have With This Ring. I just want it to be better than it seems set on being.
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My issue with this take is that most people who go through adversity grow from it or break down and gather the pieces to become stronger, she has done neither.
Regardless of any background when given powers most people would be fairly astonished then fascinated with it and knowing you could find almost anything by reading even if it's tedious... most people would read.
Ten minutes before bed everyday read a few listed items or explore options that are available and I would not complain.
If you are an old school fps player look into guns and games with guns or how to make or modify them.
When you live in Gotham and at any moment you can experience death by clown, I would expect a more savvy mindset. (Instead she acts like a suburban Karen with potentialy cosmic powers)
I'm hoping she throws a fit when they get back until the league demand Alchemist answer questions so he can explain how foolhardy she was occurs.
How in a world of super science, apocalypse's and alien invasions she has been given the tools to affect her place in it and whether or not she'll be a victim or collateral damage is now something she can prevent with minor effort... if she would just try.
While the rest of the masses on this DC death world don't ever get the chance to do anything before being snuffed out due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
She spends plenty of time traipsing about smashing in zombie heads but hasn't seem to caught on to the fact that each "dungeon" is an actual place where everyone on the planet died or how easy it would be for that to happen on her world even though Alchemists behavior and interactions with beings inside of it (not zombie) clearly display how these places have fully sapient beings in them.
It's like watching a flat earther who is on the international space station glaring angrily down on that tiny blue marble loudly proclaiming that they will always believe it is flat.
Every other aspect of this story is amazing to me but Penny...
Pure cringe constantly, then rage because of her demeanor.
I want to blame gamers mind but that tends to make you more pragmatic not lazy.
So I'm going with narrativium causing her to slowly become Alchemists nemesis.
Wouldn't be shocked if she gets help from Zeus after she struggles with Tiamat long enough just because she says something foolish while visiting the isle of warrior women and the king of gods would delight in making her better at killing dragons while sinking his fingers into her mind.
Besides 'Her' I love everything about this story and will keep reading til it ends.
Honestly if Penny was Paul would you be as forgiving of this behavior?
do you argue to excuse it because She's a girl or because she was a victim once and now you must coddle her forever instead of insisting she get better so she can't be hurt again?
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Broovian
The Patriarch of Oblivion and all it contains.
- Location
- The cesspool of New York and Loving it!
No one going to mention the full blown panic attack she was experiencing when she momentarily lost access to the game? Okay.
Anyway, my take, not that it really matters, is that she's not dumb, she has baggage with the best person to teach her that makes her avoid him. The best person to teach her has baggage that makes him, on some level, avoid her. The best person to teach her is not the best person at teaching and their systems, while similar, have certain differences that stop her from applying everything she does learn from Alchemist. Alchemist's system is explicitly meant to be exploited so that her system can't be.
Anyway, my take, not that it really matters, is that she's not dumb, she has baggage with the best person to teach her that makes her avoid him. The best person to teach her has baggage that makes him, on some level, avoid her. The best person to teach her is not the best person at teaching and their systems, while similar, have certain differences that stop her from applying everything she does learn from Alchemist. Alchemist's system is explicitly meant to be exploited so that her system can't be.
Involitile or something like thag ita been a while.
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
Who knows? Maybe having her toy taken away will push her into wanting to actually know how to use it, so stuff like that won't happen again? Of course, given Tiamat is on par with Gaia herself, nothing P1 could've done other than stay calm instead of getting upset could've stopped it, but whatever gets her to start actually asking questions and looking for answers, yeah?
She could definitely use some proper growth, and maybe teach Alchemist a few things along the way.
She could definitely use some proper growth, and maybe teach Alchemist a few things along the way.
Lopezelpesado
Space worm best worm.
- Pronouns
- Something
I'll be clear.
I have nothing against Player one as a character, yeah she can be dumb at times but she is 13 and not into games her system is based on, so she is going in blind.
That and the way Alchemist speaks as if everything is obvious is going to confuse her, like the guy was being an ass tbh when explaining the whole Tiamat stuff like she was an idiot.
What I dont like about Player one is the fact that she serves no purpose to the story at all herself.
Like if you gave the dungeon ID to Alchemist and removed Player one NOTHING would change in the story.
She is just... There, I dont even remember why she wants to be a hero or if she even wants to be one, cuz it really doesnt look like she does.
I have nothing against Player one as a character, yeah she can be dumb at times but she is 13 and not into games her system is based on, so she is going in blind.
That and the way Alchemist speaks as if everything is obvious is going to confuse her, like the guy was being an ass tbh when explaining the whole Tiamat stuff like she was an idiot.
What I dont like about Player one is the fact that she serves no purpose to the story at all herself.
Like if you gave the dungeon ID to Alchemist and removed Player one NOTHING would change in the story.
She is just... There, I dont even remember why she wants to be a hero or if she even wants to be one, cuz it really doesnt look like she does.
- Location
- Ohio
Penny got the system because she was going through a lot, found out that the guy Alchemist was possessing was dead, and in that state she ran into Terra-Chan who knew how that felt. Offering her the power of the Gamer so that she could become strong and no longer feel so vulnerable and lost.
There isn't anything wrong with Penny/Player One, she just needs the guidance, and training available. It is just as she mentioned a while ago, that people are forgetting... Is that her Parents don't take the whole thing seriously, they see it as some kind of part timer thing, and expect her to keep up her grades and classes...with this "Hero" thing regarded as if it was just cheerleader practice or a extra curricular activity.
In other words she has a few influences that don't let her give her all to being a hero, one being said parents, and two family and school responsibilities. So she has a time crunch that also hampers her, unlike Alchemist who can basically spend as much time as he wants to do whatever he wants.
Player One's point is to show what a regular Gamer is like compared to Alchemist, to have a more down to earth point of view, and also have someone more...personable interacting with the team. She is also essentially someone who through interaction with gets some idea of what Alchemist can do, making him more relatable, and in a pinch Alchemist can use her to bypass restrictions on his systems...
Also without her Alchemist would never be able to go to Dungeon's like the Zombie one, never be able to go all out like he did with Diana, and wouldn't of been able to do things like get a copy of Alan Scott's Power Battery...
There isn't anything wrong with Penny/Player One, she just needs the guidance, and training available. It is just as she mentioned a while ago, that people are forgetting... Is that her Parents don't take the whole thing seriously, they see it as some kind of part timer thing, and expect her to keep up her grades and classes...with this "Hero" thing regarded as if it was just cheerleader practice or a extra curricular activity.
In other words she has a few influences that don't let her give her all to being a hero, one being said parents, and two family and school responsibilities. So she has a time crunch that also hampers her, unlike Alchemist who can basically spend as much time as he wants to do whatever he wants.
Player One's point is to show what a regular Gamer is like compared to Alchemist, to have a more down to earth point of view, and also have someone more...personable interacting with the team. She is also essentially someone who through interaction with gets some idea of what Alchemist can do, making him more relatable, and in a pinch Alchemist can use her to bypass restrictions on his systems...
Also without her Alchemist would never be able to go to Dungeon's like the Zombie one, never be able to go all out like he did with Diana, and wouldn't of been able to do things like get a copy of Alan Scott's Power Battery...
I literally am the personal school aide of a young boy who is the same age as her and has issues relatively equivalent to hers. Sometimes, young people need persistent and consistent help to move past a difficult time, and leaving them to work it out for themselves will just lead to them pushing it off because it's hard and it hurts.
On the one hand, I agree that, from the stance that this is a standard story, she really doesn't serve a purpose. That is a 100% valid complaint imo. Her issues being solved is never focused on or pushed, with the protagonist requiring someone to force him to be involved in order to care enough to act (including social pressure).
Which, as an aside, I think that he is a naturally caustic person, so he might have very generally positive feelings about someone but still have his language come out mocking.
Anyway, if we're treating this as a normal story I would agree, but I've always treated it as a slice of life with some general plot keeping it from hitting a standstill. The plot gives him goals, but that's not the focus of the fic, the focus of the fic is his day to day life, with him getting involved with and uninvolving himself from various factors as it progresses. From that standpoint, she's less egregious. Still frustrating, but from the perspective of "goddammit, this is very accurate to the lack of care traumatized children get" more than "goddammit I hate this character so much", but not precluding the second entirely.
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Frescko
King of Silver 🏳️⚧️
Yeah people are forgetting that tidbit, perhaps it would be better if Alchemist just sat her down and talked to her like an Adult.
I personally would have either loved that or hated that when the stock crash of 2008 happened. I felt like I was completely out of the loop despite people seemingly panicking.
I know this doesn't line up 1 to 1, or even 1 to 10, but it's the closest thing I could really compare it to.
On a side note, any ideas on settings where Alchemist can strengthen his Soul? Using the Souls from Demon Souls and DS3 and the Fire Keeper come to mind same with the Dark Soul itself, but the Firekeeper might just be stats and the Dark Soul is something Alchemist doesn't really want to use.
So perhaps popping over to Fate killing Angra Mainyu and getting Heaven's Feel? Beyond giving you basically Infinite Magic it also turns your Soul into a Perpetuals Motion Machine.
Lopezelpesado
Space worm best worm.
- Pronouns
- Something
Im not sure abou the slice of life stuff.
Normally stuff like that is relaxing and nice to read, and while this fic is pretty funny at times, relaxing its really not.
Like, any scene where someone interacts with alchemist has this... Tension to it, like he was a bomb about to go off. Like the thanks giving party thing where the whole race change stuff happened.
Like the only people that seem fine around alquemist are his family like jinx.
Everyone else? They always feel... uncormfortable being with him, at least most of the time it feels like that.
And really, what good interactions has he had with tiffany? I honestly dont remember, I cant remember one fun or good moment with her except maybe her beating him up?
Hmm I'd thought it was just the screens that were being blocked but if she lost access to the game that would be bigger since she'd lose gamer's mind and body. Not too sure how much mind is effecting her but if it's a lot it might actually make her rethink things.
I see the story as a normal man given a poor hand by an inhuman system (gaia) who does his best to stay alive in a world where everything is trying to kill him.
And Alchemist being Curt with penny is justified because when someone nearly beats you to death, it doesn't matter how mature you are, any interaction after is tainted on a subconscious level.
The fact that the league allows her anywhere near Al is a failing in my opinion because he could have kept the body like all the other amoral gamers but he went out of his way to save her and his meat suit only to be rewarded with violence.
Penny isn't a normal child anymore and hasn't been for a decent period of time, when you have the ability to accidentally kill someone if you flinch when someone is near you it becomes essential that you be better.
With great power comes great responsibility.
Even just a tiny bit of accountability would placate me.
But even now people who don't suffer from comic book logic try to excuse clearly atrocious behavior.
Everyone likes to bring up her trauma and ignore the fact that the treatment of Alchemist pre reincarnation made his most fitting and compatible form a Void Dragon, with all the isolation and madness that entails.
We ignore him because he's capable and forgive her because she's not, while she refuses to even try.
Her system has just as much potential as Alchemists without the risk of death or error and she does nothing with it.
It frustrates me immensely...
she's a child running around with a gun and people act as if those she shot should've dodged the bullet.
The problem is she keeps avoiding the consequences and has begun staring down the barrel because nothing bad has happened...
She must mature or she will die, it's not a question of 'if' but 'when'
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D&D. Within the world experience points are literally a measure of how powerful is your soul. Approximately. Just scoop a couple thousands of demons from the Abyss and grind them into pure soul stuff. It's a pain in the ass to do normally but Alchemist should be able to manage.
Frescko
King of Silver 🏳️⚧️
Seeing as he's a Void Dragon, something that can be best described as a Eldritch Entity but less Mind Shattering and Insanity Inducing it makes sense why people get uncomfortable with him even if he's not in his Draconic form 24/7.
While I don't quite know their lore, a quick google shows that you gotta do a Wisdom saving throw due to just being around them.
Alchemist is pretty lucky being originally a Human and having a Human Form or else going outside to buy stuff at the Store would be basically impossible as everyone around him would faint or go slightly mad.
The only people who could be around him are those of notable Willpower (Superheros or people like Amanda Waller), already insane (Villains like the Joker), those who genuinely have no fucks to give (Villains like Mr Freeze) or the unfazed Everyman (Lois Lane).
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
On a related tangent, nabbing a divine rank or two. Golarion has the Starstone, a piece of space rock that causes anyone who touches it to ascend to godhood. The fact that he could then make starstone stuff himself is just a major side-benefit.
Maybe also take a perk that allows him to be treated as a mortal when it benefits him, just in case.
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Inviolate by Scriviner.
Lex discovers that someone is messing with his mind, and he decides to make them stop.
Magos Tractor-1
Archmagos Dominus
- Location
- Somewhere in Mars, Olymus Mons probably
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Giovanni making use of the Threaded Cane was nice. Enforcing a blood contract with his great grandmother to leave Zatanna alone is prudent. Developing his own spells based on reports of what Alchemist pills off is a delight to observe. I want to see the Zatarra Clan seeing Giovanni's spells more powerful than theirs thanks to his stronger magic and the Metamagic worked into the Threaded Cane.
Word of advice to the old woman, the being you are trying to plot to place under your thumb or steal his power is so far above you in might and breadth of arcane lore that he can wipe you off with an errant thought. You would think wiping off myriads of vampires with a single spell traveling bloodlines, up and down, would invite an overabundance of caution.
Tiamat speaking through her priestesses to touch base with Alchemist and warn him about his constant foray into foolishness is pleasant to see. Yet, it is another advice that Alchemist will ignore down the line, for necessities sake at least.
Player One, Tiffany, is a survivor of sexual abuse, drug use, Gotham's innate shithole nature, being thrown into the superheroics without her full consent and cognizance, gifted with an immensely puissant power, no mentor relating to heroics and her power, and is a 13-year-old undergoing hormonal changes and social disruption at school due to social hierarchies. She is insolent and indolent, but a greater latitude must be given to her at this juncture.
Alchemist is also not the optimal teacher, but he is the only one who has the same power as her, albeit expressed differently. At the same time, he is also a shit teacher to Player One. Almost always deliberately vague, speaking the truth without the needed context to understand, teaching her and getting snippy after intentionally poisoning himself by consuming raw crystalized magic, not bothering to explain the fundamentals of her power completely, and failing to adjust his teaching strategy after learning that Tiffany's exposure to video games boil down to FPS games and no other.
Yeah, Alchemist is really not good at the teaching stuff, at least when his students are kids. He's able when teaching adults, but in topics he only is passionate about. And magic is just a portion of his greater power. The same greater power that Tiffany is having immense problem utilizing because someone cannot be bothered to sit her down one full week and hammer into her head the ins and outs of her power in a manner that she can digest.
But those are what grounds the characters of this story. They are flawed beings that some find absolutely maddening, while others find entertaining.
Word of advice to the old woman, the being you are trying to plot to place under your thumb or steal his power is so far above you in might and breadth of arcane lore that he can wipe you off with an errant thought. You would think wiping off myriads of vampires with a single spell traveling bloodlines, up and down, would invite an overabundance of caution.
Tiamat speaking through her priestesses to touch base with Alchemist and warn him about his constant foray into foolishness is pleasant to see. Yet, it is another advice that Alchemist will ignore down the line, for necessities sake at least.
Player One, Tiffany, is a survivor of sexual abuse, drug use, Gotham's innate shithole nature, being thrown into the superheroics without her full consent and cognizance, gifted with an immensely puissant power, no mentor relating to heroics and her power, and is a 13-year-old undergoing hormonal changes and social disruption at school due to social hierarchies. She is insolent and indolent, but a greater latitude must be given to her at this juncture.
Alchemist is also not the optimal teacher, but he is the only one who has the same power as her, albeit expressed differently. At the same time, he is also a shit teacher to Player One. Almost always deliberately vague, speaking the truth without the needed context to understand, teaching her and getting snippy after intentionally poisoning himself by consuming raw crystalized magic, not bothering to explain the fundamentals of her power completely, and failing to adjust his teaching strategy after learning that Tiffany's exposure to video games boil down to FPS games and no other.
Yeah, Alchemist is really not good at the teaching stuff, at least when his students are kids. He's able when teaching adults, but in topics he only is passionate about. And magic is just a portion of his greater power. The same greater power that Tiffany is having immense problem utilizing because someone cannot be bothered to sit her down one full week and hammer into her head the ins and outs of her power in a manner that she can digest.
But those are what grounds the characters of this story. They are flawed beings that some find absolutely maddening, while others find entertaining.
No, merely that it's understandable she isn't able to control that trigger finger, and saying an adult with higher emotional intelligence needs to intervene. Al has proven that isn't him lol
- Location
- Mt. Holly, North Carolina
I want Al to set up a DnD game with the whole of Young Justice and just walk them through to epic. Just, like one night a week, probably Saturday, start up a session zero and have the end boss be Tiamat's avatar. Just, one game taken to epic and at the end, tell them that is how both his and Penny's power works in a general sense.