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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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Sivantic said:
Again, catpaws.

Doing something would have screwed everyone over. Including some of our allies.
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If you want to piss them off vote for something like this

Build Espionage Network - Sketch Mahaxia

Launch Espionage Mission - Sketch Mahaxia

Can we get them to USA or maybe to start a war with the UPM, who knows but it could risk a war or just not work.
 
keenscythe said:
Im baffled are you saying desert warfare or jungle warfare would be easier for the Dual Crown to fight in?

Since you are agreeing with me that the USA had advantages we don't for jungle warfare and yet you call me a histrionic fool.

Which is it?
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10ebbor10 said:
He's saying that the situations are so differentbas to be incompareable.
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This.

If you are going to draw dire parallels, maybe look at the Dutch wars to conquer what's now Indonesia or the French wars to conquer what became Vietnam. Or the Indian Mutiny or the wars between the British and Mysore.

Recent wars in Iraq and Vietnam and the Soviet and American wars in Afghanistan are all wars defined by modern technology, modern geopolitics and utterly dominated by the internal politics of the invaders. The Soviets, for example, had actually won their war in Afghanistan, only for the Soviet state to fail, meaning all they'd won in Afghanistan slipped away as the insurgents snatched victory from the jaws of the dying Soviet bear.

fasquardon
 
Academia Nut said:
While they seem strong and unaffected, intelligence reports suggest that the Sketch have cut themselves to the bone preventing revolution. They are running lean and desperate for wealth and luxuries that their workers and middle class can keep occupied with. Right now their biggest fault line is their economy. Another major shock is something they can't "shrug off like last time, although given their exploitative practices economic disruptions have to hit them early in the process lest they seize upon another's weakness to turn enough of a profit to come out ahead in the crash. Also, while you scare them the recent thawing of relations with the Hes doesn't sit well with many.
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Do our diplomats think appeasement could work to defuse the Hespranxer? Without having to make the Khemetri give up their new conquests I mean.

If we start wooing the Hespranxer, the Sketch will have to reciprocate with appeasement of their own. This could create some serious tensions on the Isles by aggravating the nationalists. Making them "waste" tax money on an old rival while the average Sketch is barely making ends meet will generate great material for revolutionary propaganda.
 
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Academia Nut said:
While they seem strong and unaffected, intelligence reports suggest that the Sketch have cut themselves to the bone preventing revolution. They are running lean and desperate for wealth and luxuries that their workers and middle class can keep occupied with. Right now their biggest fault line is their economy. Another major shock is something they can't "shrug off like last time, although given their exploitative practices economic disruptions have to hit them early in the process lest they seize upon another's weakness to turn enough of a profit to come out ahead in the crash. Also, while you scare them the recent thawing of relations with the Hes doesn't sit well with many.
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Academia Nut said:
Back to the situation with Sketch, is there a way to get others just as tired of their shenanigans as we are?

Because if they are allowed to talk s*** behind our back, we should be able to do the same.

@Academia Nut is there like a propaganda project or can that be covered in Outreach?
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Espionage
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Hm... If there's anti-Hespranxer sentiment in the isles, is there anti-Sketch sentiment in the Hespranxer?

Can we try to tempt the Hespranxer with something along the lines of: "Why do you have to share the seas with the Sketch? Why not kick them while they're disadvantaged, so that there aren't two world-class naval powers; just one."

Basically, try to convince them that the Sketch are doing this shit because, for right now, they're vulnerable... And that this means is a great time for them to get their kicks in.

But that if the Sketch are allowed to pull this shit? Then they'll return to dominating the seas like they usually do. Because their enemies and competitors will have struck out at each other and been busy with each other.


So, try to convince the Hespranxer that the Sketch are in a delicate position and that they're trying to turn all the people's attention from that weakness/gap in strength. And if they keep it up for long enough, then they'll recover to their position again.

So: why be a contender for the top 2 naval powers, when you can be the naval power?
 
*glances at thread*

Praising balance of power politics when used against others, followed by outrage when it's used against us?

Seems about right.
 
changing my vote
[X] Support the rebelling West (-1 Trust, SoL benefit from Technical Advisors lost, Maharathan ports endangered, almost no threat to lowlands territories, People extremely supportive)
 
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Before we start launching more impactful espionage missions against the Sketch, we should probably first do an espionage mission with the goal of determining how effective the Sketch's espionage apparatus is.
 
[X] Support the rebelling West (-1 Trust, SoL benefit from Technical Advisors lost, Maharathan ports endangered, almost no threat to lowlands territories, People extremely supportive)
 
For all our word may be golden all our foreign contact seems to be handled by workshy incompetents who do nothing unless Nockly is in the room with them and avoid him unless something is on fire.

We should write in for our next actions
[] Set up an actual fucking foreign office
[] Set up an actual fucking intelligence agency
because talking to everyone we can, looking for threats and looking for opportunities is a core duty of the executive and should be happening constantly. E.g. when Syffryn goes into economic meltdown and then the Halvyni colonies get cut off by revolution our diplomats (and spies) should be on that like fleas on a dog looking for blood. That should be automatic with no PW involved. A specific deal would have to be pushed through parliament but being unable to even find out what responses are available should not take two years and require the neglect of completely unconnected parts of the state. It's ridiculous.

At the moment I almost feel like we need reports on every country we've heard of and options to react every phase. Which is obviously unworkable but I just don't trust the current system to show what's important in a timely manner.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Pretty sure the "justification" has been wanting to prevent people from getting stronger than us, but sure.
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The justification was that Syffrin are mainly all dicks. Hesperanxer are tyrants, Sketch are exploitive bastards, Vortuga blow you up when you don't do what they say and the Ochruhr have revenge/revanchist fantasies that would see them build a mass tyranny in a tide of vengeful blood.

Basically kicking Syffrin in the face at every viable opportunity is completely morally justified.
 
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Hiw hard would a Beh based arterial rail line that ends up in Hes be? Saffron may settle down quite a bit an be more unified if we can sort out the logistical nightnare that is all those mountains...
 
HanEmpire said:
Do our diplomats think appeasement could work to defuse the Hespranxer? Without having to make the Khemetri give up their new conquests I mean.

If start wooing the Hespranxer, the Sketch will have to reciprocate with appeasement of their own. This could create some serious tensions on the Isles by aggravating the nationalists. Making them "waste" tax money on an old rival while the average Sketch is barely making ends meet will generate great material for revolutionary propaganda.
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This is probably one of the better indirect lines of attack, yes.
 
>Do Not Invoke The Dual Crown

Hung Emperor: ia ia Dual Crown fhtagn.
Black Sheep Emperor: Move over buddy, I need to invoke the Dread One too.
 
discord!AN infos:
Q: Would something like "Build Espionage Network - The Sketch Problem" be too vague for a targeted action? Goal is to just generally counter their efforts and prod their weaknesses in whatever way our spies think best rather than try to mastermind a strategy ourselves.

A: No, that's valid
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So yeah, this is probably what we need going forward. It's a blanket offensive and defensive action to deal with Sketchy business. This should hopefully give us advanced info on whatever they're sending our way and give us opportunities to strike back.

I know others want to Espionage the Nohon, but honestly that problem is going to be solved with blood and infrastructure, not spy work. Targeting the Sketch will at least maybe let us know if they plan to use them as a knife in our back.

Point is, the Sketch are an existential threat that we cannot stab to death while the Nohon are not. Our actions should reflect this.
 
Academia Nut said:
It would be a question for the future.



Yes, although they already did a lot of their investing in their colonial possessions before the game.



While they seem strong and unaffected, intelligence reports suggest that the Sketch have cut themselves to the bone preventing revolution. They are running lean and desperate for wealth and luxuries that their workers and middle class can keep occupied with. Right now their biggest fault line is their economy. Another major shock is something they can't "shrug off like last time, although given their exploitative practices economic disruptions have to hit them early in the process lest they seize upon another's weakness to turn enough of a profit to come out ahead in the crash. Also, while you scare them the recent thawing of relations with the Hes doesn't sit well with many.



Both are really good at putting down local rebellions. They are untested against peers but should put up at least a decent fight with significant numbers. You need massive naval investments to fight them.



You getting involved in the fighting is unlikely to start right away, but both groups expect you to pick a side for diplomatic purposes if nothing else.



Espionage actions.
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Okay it official we should start with Diplomacy and Espionage efforts to turn the Hes from the Sketch. Hell it's not even that hard a sell to them!

"Do you really Trust the Sketch to have you back when you life is on the line?" given their reputation I think the answer "No I don't" is a damn reasonable one. Our strongest asset has always been our high Trust, we have worked hard to get it and we should use it.
 
masterofmadness said:
Okay it official we should start with Diplomacy and Espionage efforts to turn the Hes from the Sketch. Hell it's not even that hard a sell to them!

"Do you really Trust the Sketch to have you back when you life is on the line?" given their reputation I think the answer "No I don't" is a damn reasonable one. Our strongest asset has always been our high Trust, we have worked hard to get it and we should use it.
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The Hes also just split a rather hefty pie with the Sketch at great cost to Hes and little cost to the Sketch. I assure you they want ALL the SEA islands. They would also love to take a swing at Vortuga. We could back that and it puts the Sketch in a sticky possition between two allies. Even better if we can get the Khem to push the southern Vortuga lands while the Hes take the north.
 
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