Remove ads

Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

Reader mode
Umi-san said:
*Shrug* They let you grow in the winter and at least this version of greenhouse probably costs something like only $10k + land each. Eyeballing it, ~5 tons of bricks, ~100 iron poles, ~3k square feet of plastic film & cover. So it seems like a decent investment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is a slight problem of pretty much everybody having less than 2000m^2 of land on their dacha. The article you are referencing, however, has photos of industrial-size greenhouses. No family can fit such a monster on their land.

I do not know the returns for greenhouse potatoes but it seems bad for business as potatoes are very cheap. You better grow some tomatoes instead, which are 5x more expensive in this climate.
 
Last edited:
@Academia Nut is the Wyrmyn Republic at it's full size already, or do they have more claim on our land?

Cause it seems remarkably small so far.

And what's up with the red dot in the middle of the Tortun?
 
Last edited:
Citino said:
@Academia Nut is the Wyrmyn Republic at it's full size already, or do they have more claim on our land?

Cause it seems remarkably small so far.

And what's up with the red dot in the middle of the Tortun?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nope, they purposefully avoided taking the large majority of their cores, both so that you would accept the deal and so that they could cite ongoing oppression of Wyrmyn minorities to invader at a later date when they were less exhausted.

They have an enclave among the mass of Tortun minor duchies, counties, and baronies who are unaligned right now.

EDIT: Also, definitely no update tonight.
 
Watching the Dual Monarchy eat up the Kyberian Frontier just feels so... satisfying. *shivers*

And as usual, lots of interesting stuff going on in Mahaxia. "Empire of New Hespranxia," huh? What an ambitious title! How much do you want to bet that they end up splintering into ten different belligerent microstates before the end of the next decade? Meanwhile, the UPM is busying itself finding more destinies to manifest, and Not!Brazil formed pretty early. So that's neat. Vortuga probably took a big hit, though, losing their colony like that. Unless I'm mistaken and the Redwood Domain isn't an independent entity, that is.

And Nohon is just sort of... there. Watching. Probably with mildly amused smirks on their faces.
 
Geostrategic notes:

1. The United States Provinces

Keep an eye on Mahaxia...

I was hoping badly that they'd implode from instability, but they're clearly making a westward push, not something collapsing states do. I wouldn't call it for certain yet, but if we have a Mexican-American War expy against the Empire of New Hespranxia, that'd just about confirm it. They will be the late game giant we'll have to compete against if we make it that far, enjoying the position the US did IRL, possessing massive and bountiful land like us, but also probably the immigrant population to make it work, and no powerful opponents on their doorstep ready to kick their teeth in.

As a side note, the Mapanca may be able to make something out of land grabs of the chaotic Hespranxer colonies, and may eventually secure lower Great Power status. Hard to say at this point however.

2. An uncomfortably long salient

I'd also be very very concerned about the Black Sheep, and maybe even the Khemetri right about now...

If our relations drop low enough while we appear to be in a state of weakness, I don't think they would have many qualms about attacking what appears to be our most crucial trade port.

If we had the political will I'd have advocated for keeping tabs on them, but alas, we have bigger fish to fry.

A war must occur against both powers at some point. Their position is too threatening for us to simply ignore, and the chance of access to that internal sea, the Salt Sea I believe, is too valuable to pass up.

3. Kyberi Fever

I don't want to admit it. I really don't. But we might be going into Kyberia a bit too fast. Nohon expansion has been blunted to a truly unexpected degree thanks to having to split their colonization efforts into North America(Also nearly ensuring some sort of confrontation against Mahaxia in the long term, and the New Hespranxian Empire in the short term).

Not only that, but the fact that continuously expanding into Kyberia extends our Undeveloped Hinterlands debuff by a turn each, combined with the fact that we have so far lacked the capacity to simultaneously take a develop action brings me very nervous feelings. I do not want that debuff any longer than we possibly need to, and I think we should be willing to slow down expansion to double down on development. We can afford to let the Nohon take a bit of Kyberia, and I would honestly prefer that we do so, as if the resources in what they do colonize end up being somewhat inadequate, there would be some very tasty land that we could not easily defend just a hop, skip, and a jump away.

4. The Kielmyr Problem

I voiced my suspicions earlier, but I think they're on the way out. I do not believe they will be able to practically regain their Tortun territories, and even if they do, some irredentist Tortun power could likely take them back at a moment's notice in the future thanks to unenviably thin and indefensible coastal nature of the territory. Nor are their PseudoBaltic territories defensible. They have sold their only major colony in PseudoCanada to the Sketch, likely to finance their war effort, leaving only an unprofitable Greenland and Iceland. They have nowhere to expand, and the shock to their society from their devastating losses against the Tortun has likely inflicted vast casualties on a certainly sparse population base.

At best, they will remain either a very lowly great power, or at worst, be dissassembled into its constituent countries at some point.

This would leave a relatively weak power on our Northern Flank, which I would honestly suggest we leave be. The land there is of little valuable strategically or materially, and would only earn us greater ire, while they would lack the ability to meaningfully attack us, while retain the capacity to trade with them, and have a relatively influenceable power in control of the straits that let us leave the Baltic.

It may however, be in our interests to, through whatever method, obtain the Kielmyr Baltic land, and turn it into either a buffer state against the Tortuns, or to annex it entirely.

5. Natural Borders

The territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Styrmyr must be upheld at any cost.

Under no circumstances whatsoever can we allow this state to fall away from our influence.

I cannot possibly emphasize how crucial it is for that border to remain peaceful. It would be a strategic calamity to allow such a long and difficult to defend front fall into anyone's hands, especially considering how close it is to our most developed lands.

Styrmyr is ours to influence, and ours alone. This must be made clear at whatever Congress of Vienna eventually happens.
 
Last edited:
So, I just want to say that even if this last war didn't turn out well in the short term, we actually stand to benefit in the long term.

Our losses here are a small fragment of land, and quite a few lives, as well as some extra militancy, which will be fun to deal with. The Tortun also managed to buy themselves some breathing room here, which means that they will have time to prep for round 2 with us.

However, we also stand to benefit. We now have the drive to reform not only our government but also our military in order to do better in round 2. Furthermore, our diplomatic corps managed to pull off a massive success, not only taking the Hex out of the war and removing their natural alliance with the Tortun, but also gaining their gratitude and likely keeping them out of the next war, or even bring them in on our side if we can leverage it enough.

Better yet, with the Hex no longer on their side, the Sketch will be eager to intervene as well. That leaves the Tortun surrounded, especially as the Stymyr will hopefully no longer be distracted and will be able to handle their front on their own.

We may have lost the first part of this war, but we've also set up future conflicts to be far more advantageous to us as well.
Sturmi said:
I'd also be very very concerned about the Black Sheep, and maybe even the Khemetri right about now...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'll point out that the Black Sheep have been making gains in Not!India, and are now bumping into the Sketch expansion. I suspect they won't attack us right now, due to worries on the eastern border that would make any attempt on us possibly become a two front war on their end.

The Khem are unlikely to attack, since they rely on trade through us to prosper.
 
Last edited:
There is also an Indian Empire rising. We may want to promote that at some point to keep the Black Sheep or the Sketch from dominating india and keep the BS focused that way rather than annoy us.

North America is an issue, true enough. Idealy we'd kick Nohon off Siberia but support their NA claims. Or something else to prevent a singular dominant power on the continent. Even split along the middle would drastically curtail a future US power.

Or we go full bore cuddle mode and sphere them, but I fear we have too much on our plate already.
 
FortTell said:
There is a slight problem of pretty much everybody having less than 2000m^2 of land on their dacha. The article you are referencing, however, has photos of industrial-size greenhouses. No family can fit such a monster on their land.

I do not know the returns for greenhouse potatoes but it seems bad for business as potatoes are very cheap. You better grow some tomatoes instead, which are 5x more expensive in this climate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah kind of the point was that we could grow other things. Or potatoes if winters are too harsh. I wasn't suggesting it for irl much less personal implementation.
 
The Sketch or the Black Sheep dominating the Indian subcontinent is bad for us. That would propel the Sketch into the superpower status or the Black Sheep into a Great Power.

Having a great power or our doorstep isn't that good. The onmly good thing about the Black Sheep winning is that they already have all the good territories they want.

The old Hespranaxer empire can reform if the queen of New Hespranaxer married the king of Hespranxer. So that's something we should keep an eye out for.
 
Last edited:
Okay, going to write up a short list of what I think our priorities territory and alliance wise should be.

Short Term Priorities:
1. Win back our territories, and preferably obtain an all-year port on the Not!Baltic Sea
2. Ensure that Kielmyr doesn't shatter, them weaking and losing their southern Not!European mainland territories is okay (preferably some of them to us), but we need Kielmyr to stay our friend, and that it keeps control of the straits giving access to the Not!Baltic

Medium Term Priorities:
1. Keep Stymyr our friends, or at least neutral between us and any enemies. This ensures that we have a buffer state between the vulnerabilities that are the northern Ymaryn plains, southern Gylruvian plains and any enemies seeking to exploit them.
2. Ensure that if a not!Greek state forms, either to conquest or unification, that it is friendly to us, or at least neutral. This ensures our total control over the Not!Black Sea isn't endangered, nor control over access lost.
3. Finish claiming as much of Kyberia as we can before running into Nohon and the Hung
4. Improve ties with the Hung as a counter-weight to Nohon
5. Ensure Khemtri remains our friend, preferably our ally, and probably build that canal between the Saffron Sea and Monsoon Sea
6. Obtain the western Black Sheep territories, as well as their territories on the northern shore of the Salt Sea by whatever means is required.
7. Ensure that neither Sketch nor the Black Sheep become hegemons of Not!Indian. The Maharathan can become Hegemons, though we'd need them to be neutral between us and Sketch at worst.
7.a) If the Maharathan become the Hegemons of Not!India, then we need to ensure that some remnant of the Black Sheep remains between our new territories that used to be Black Sheep (see Medium Term Priority 6) and the Maharathen border.

Long Term Priorities:
1. Remain stable and a Great Power, with control, or at least strong friendships with, over our neighbouring countries
2. Acquire the Kyberian coastline currently under control of Nohon
3. Ensure that if a rival Great Power emerges in either North or South Mahaxia, it doesn't lack rival nations on it's borders.
3.a) For United Provinces of Mahaxia, suggestions include backing Nohon's control over it's west coast colonies despite taking their Kyberian colonies. Another suggestion is to ensure that both New Hespranxia and the United Provinces of Mahaxia are of relatively equal power, to ensure neither can dominate the other.

Do people agree with these?

Edit: Missed a Medium Term Priority. Reordered them a bit, so it's the new number 2.
 
Last edited:
Pyro Hawk said:
3.a) For United States of Mahaxia, suggestions include backing Nohon's control over it's west coast colonies despite taking their Kyberian colonies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless we can get a genius diplomat among genius diplomats, I doubt we'll be able to get the Nohon on our side when we've stolen their land. It's honestly better to work with the UPM to take the Nohon territories, and then either keep Not!Mexico strong as a counterweight to them, or create ties with the UPM early.
 
Citino said:
Unless we can get a genius diplomat among genius diplomats, I doubt we'll be able to get the Nohon on our side when we've stolen their land. It's honestly better to work with the UPM to take the Nohon territories, and then either keep Not!Mexico strong as a counterweight to them, or create ties with the UPM early.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's why I said 'suggestions include'... Going to add the Not!Mexico bit actually.

And we don't actually have to get Nohon on our side with those colonies, we just need to back up Nohon's claim to the Mahaxian colonies. Could be something as simple as adding a clause into the peace treaty that gives us control over their Kyberian colonies that reads 'In exchange for sole control over Kyberia, the Dual Monarchy recognises Nohon as the sole claimant to the following territories in North Mahaxia.'

Well, something like that. Also added in another medium-term priority that I don't think anyone else thought of that's very important. It's the new number 2.
 
My policy is to just leave the Americas the Hell alone. Before the October Revolution Russia and United States got along fine. There is no reason we can't keep cordial relations going.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
And we don't actually have to get Nohon on our side with those colonies, we just need to back up Nohon's claim to the Mahaxian colonies. Could be something as simple as adding a clause into the peace treaty that gives us control over their Kyberian colonies that reads 'In exchange for sole control over Kyberia, the Dual Monarchy recognises Nohon as the sole claimant to the following territories in North Mahaxia.'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Problem is that this would sour relations between us and the UPM, and doesn't guarantee that they would be able to hold on against the UPM. Conquest is fair game in this time period, so saying that we recognize their control over that land isn't too much of a barrier. And if the UPM do succeed in their conquests, it would leave us with an unfriendly great power that could mess with a lot of our trade and diplomacy if it wished, not to mention becoming a fearsome foe in the future.

We honestly are unlikely to really be able to intervene in force there. Mahaxia is just too far for us to reach any time within the next century, which means we should assume that the UPM is going to become fairly powerful barring some sort of disaster. That's why I recommend either creating strong ties with the UPM and working with them in the future, or trying to keep Not!Mexico strong and united, so the UPM can't carelessly intervene against us due to a strong nation on their border.

tl;dr We have to be careful to keep in mind that Mahaxia is a very distant territory, and as such our power is very limited there. We can't turn the tide against the UPM easily, and it might be dangerous for us to even try.

Edit: Like, the Mexican American War in the OTL should show how this would go down.

US: I'm not touching you~
Mexico: Your finger is literally a half centimeter away from my nose. Haven't you even heard of personal space?
US: Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I'm not in your personal space.
Mexico: Yeah, you are. *Brushes finger away*
US: OH MY GOD! ASSAULT! I'M BEING ASSUALTED! HELP, MILITARY, MEXICO JUST ASSAULTED ME!!!
Mexico: The fuck? No, I didn't--
US: Come to me, US Military! We must vanquish these dangerous criminals!
*50 burly, heavily armed men appear*
Mexico: ...
*Looks behind him*
*20 pale, skinny dudes, kinda armed*
Mexico: Oh shit--

*1 severe beating later*

Mexico: Stop! Just, stop! Don't keep punching me!
US: Well, I guess you look like you won't assault me any more. Fine, just pay the fine, and I'll stop.
Mexico: Ok, how much is the fine?
US: Weeeelll... We'll start with your backyard--
Mexico: WHAT?!
US: Not done yet. I like your driveway as well, so I'll take that too.
Mexico: THAT's LIKE HALF MY PROPERTY!
US: Hey, you do the crime, you take your punishment. Not my fault that you assaulted me.
Mexico: ...
US: I do feel a bit guilty leaving you with so little though, so I'll pay for the property.
Mexico: Well, I guess that's ok...
*US takes out pocket change, throws it on the ground*
US: That should cover it.
Mexico: ...
 
Last edited:
All this talk of the UPM brings up an interesting conundrum. Do you think that this timeline's version of the American Civil War will occur?

I mean, its not an inevitability... but if the UPM practices slavery and is, in fact, a liberal republic, then that contradiction is bound to cause internal problems sooner or later, particularly if the culture dichotomy between North and South is just as extreme as IOTL. That's just speculation, though.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top