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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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agumentic said:
Virtually everyone else don't have money - except us, I guess, but we're in a good old love/rival relationship, they sure wouldn't sell to us. That way they can get money, create another kinda obstacle for DC down the line, but simultaneously don't hurt them now, so they can deal with the Federation.

Also, Federation appearing is hardly their fault, unless you want to make Sketch symbol for all Laissez-faire, which wouldn't really be fair, since everyone practiced it.
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New Hesperanxer has more money than Nohon, the Tribes have more Money than Nohon, the Redwood Dominion has more money than Nohon. The America's escaped most of the collapse they caused. And the Federation is their fault, their model of economy and economic influence directly caused the collapse that gave rise to the Federation, so setting up a future enemy to fuck us over is directly a cuntish move, even as they don't help us whatsoever with the problem they caused.
Dutch said:
Because they want access to the Hung, and the Nohon hold the keys to the most profitable Hung trade now.
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And the Hung have nothing to trade at the moment seeing as they're still on fire, can't even pay us and have better trade partners in the form of us as well. Sketch literally gain nothing from this they couldn't have gotten by dealing with at least three other nations. Hung won't give them shit unless they try to force it, which puts them at war with us. Which only makes them even bigger dicks because they're starting this as we're cleaning up their massive mess that could've potentially killed them as they are the source of the evil economics the Federation hates most.
 
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bluefur87 said:
Is it?

Freely giving out power to people who are not necessarily trained or qualified to wield it is an upgrade?

No, I really don't think doing things like just giving the nobles the power of the purse is absolutely an upgrade, because they may just use it to fund their own projects over other people's actions and interests. We're giving people more freedoms and that's great and all, but we aren't giving them any real checks on those freedoms outside of not dishing out freedoms as fast as possible. It is literally opening the doors to corruption and doing nothing to stop it via constitution.

Now, don't get me wrong, some of those things are an upgrade. Others are a sidegrade. A few others are just dangerous under most circumstances.

But yeah, really not a fan of how ConCons go down. For all that many of the questers claim to want to try and create an actual modern monarchy, few (of the ones who claim to want it, I'm not counting the republic or death people) are actually wiling to look for it in any real form and our government 'upgrades' pretty much center around making the monarchy as completely worthless and replacing it with glorious republic as possible.

You'd think an absolutist monarchy would be invested in finding an alternate route that isn't so blatantly leading to republicanism, but we aren't even really trying.
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Monarchy is dumb anyway. All it takes is one idiot king to ruin everything. Just like Russia in OTL.
 
Timewinders said:
Monarchy is dumb anyway. All it takes is one idiot king to ruin everything. Just like Russia in OTL.
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And Nokly isn't and idiot, neither is Yenyna. So let's not screw over our nation by giving the Nobles, who are majorly worse, more power.
Citino said:
Doesn't even take an idiot king. All it takes is one who has an inconvenient blind spot for something critical.
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Same for literally every government without a full franchise. Especially in our model which is still noble heavy.
 
[] [UH] +1 PW - Minor lawmaking
[] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)

This looks good for now. Ultimate objective should probably be something like a peaceful transition into something like a parliamentary constitutional monarchy with a figurehead monarch, executive leadership from the Prime Minister, a two-house legislature, and a court system to balance them. The nobles have a lot of power right now, we should brainstorm ways to hamstring and ceremonialize them without a bloody revolution.
 
Random Member said:
[] Plan FREEDOM
-[] [UH] 2 PW - Power of the purse
-[] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
-[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
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1 PW stays with us.

McLuvin said:
Anyway:
Plan: Let's not Give a Mile

[] [UH] 2 PW - Veto
[] [LH] 2 PW - Veto (+1 Temp Happiness)
[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
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3 PW stays with us.

agumentic said:
[] [UH] +1 PW - Minor lawmaking
[] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
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4 PW stays with us.

These seem to be the current plan types.

What does veto do, mechanically and narratively?
 
Alright I don't think declaring war on the Sketch for what they just did is justified but their has to be some kind of way to demonstrate our displeasure about this without declaring war.

Any thoughts?
 
Timewinders said:
Monarchy is dumb anyway. All it takes is one idiot king to ruin everything. Just like Russia in OTL.
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I do not want to get into a RL politics debate on here for multiple reasons, but this is the second time someone has pointed to the real world to say 'monarchies are stupid'.

I do not consider myself learned enough to really talk about the subject, but nor do I consider the people who keep on using incredibly vague excuses such as 'monarchies are destined to fail in the industrial world,' as a legitimate argument either.

Sigh, no, I can't bring myself to point to things I know I'm not informed enough to have a real debate about. I will say I can think of republics that have lead to horrifying circumstances rife with corruption and leading to terrifying nations as a result, though.
 
Academia Nut said:
[] [LH] 10 PW - Total lawmaking
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Unless my math is off, this option is not actually available.
Academia Nut said:
Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1
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If you would, please elaborate on how this mechanic works?

Does it lower the amount of consciousness that education inflicts? If it does, then this has got to be where things start:

[] [UH] 2 PW - Veto
[] [LH] 2 PW - Veto (+1 Temp Happiness)
[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)

I don't know why the fuck you'd want to go further with the Officially Distributing Power to the Less-But-Meaningfully-Still Powerful.

Like, Ease Up, Tiger.

Keep your hands where they can be seen for a little while, still.

Curfew's ain't for hours, nothin's coolin' down, nothin's runnin' dry.
 
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masterofmadness said:
Alright I don't think declaring war on the Sketch for what they just did is justified but their has to be some kind of way to demonstrate our displeasure about this without declaring war.

Any thoughts?
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Demonstrate Superiority, basically says, we cleaned up your mess, survived the economic crisis you caused and have come out better than you after it.
 
PyroTechno said:
[] [UH] +1 PW - Minor lawmaking
[] [LH] 4 PW - Minor lawmaking (+1 Temp Happiness)
[] [Assembly] 2 PW - Broad (+1 Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1)
[] [Press] 2 PW - Free press (-1 Temp Happiness, Min. Consciousness from Education Increased by 1, Academic Freedom Provides Half Consciousness to Innovation)
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This is basically the vote. The nobles are already doing de facto law making for obvious reasons (namely that the King can't possibly write every law, so this people will always have de facto law making), might as well formalize it so there's rules on it. Give the lower house the same power to give us more options for the mid turn, use them to counter balance the pollution-happy nobles and capitalists since they'll be the big screw ups of the century.

Broad assembly gives perm happiness, no brainer. Free press gives a research boost, also a no brainer.

And it keeps a lot of PW for this mid turn, which we'll no doubt want.
 
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Academia Nut said:
The Hung were now officially in the midst of a disintegration of central authority, but the provinces that were still loyal to the Emperor were fully on side now at least. Although from the sounds of things from the first trainers to arrive the People's ways of war and production were going to cause issue as they gave what many officials saw as undue amounts of power to the lower classes.
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Okay, half measures on the prestige transfer wasn't enough to restore order.

@Academia Nut did the prestige transfer to the Hung actually do anything other than waste 2 prestige? And can we do a DO to help restore/speed up recovery of Central Authority in Hung?
 
loserthree said:
If you would, please elaborate on how this mechanic works?

Does it lower the amount of consciousness that education inflicts? If it does, then this has got to be where things start:
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Right now Min. Consciousness if Education -2 (actually -3 from religious revival), so increasing the Min. Consciousness means that each option increases it to Education -1 or -0 if you take both.
 
As long as the UH holds more power than the LH, the UH won't LET the LH have more power than the UH.

If we want the lower house to be supreme we need to let there be a period where the LH has equal power to the UH for long enough to balance the two. Then the LH's push for power will balance the UH's resistance, making it posible.
 
065tdsa said:
This is basically the vote. The nobles are already doing de facto law making for obvious reasons (namely that the King can't possibly write every law, so this people will always have de facto law making), might as well formalize it so there's rules on it. Give the lower house the same power to give us more options for the mid turn, use them to counter balance the pollution-happy nobles and capitalists since they'll be the big screw ups of the century.

Broad assembly gives perm happiness, no brainer. Free press gives a research boost, also a no brainer.
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No, the UH is doing lawmaking cause Nokly was a young untried ruler at the last concon. Good advisors don't let children make laws.
 
Academia Nut - Today at 1:58 PM
You are fighting Ochruhr and SKF

Academia Nut - Today at 1:58 PM
Ochruhr is fighting you, Behr, and Styrmyr. Behr just died

Academia Nut - Today at 1:59 PM
SKF is fighting you, Kielmyr, Behr, and Hes. Behr just died

Academia Nut - Today at 1:59 PM
Hes is fighting SKF, Khem, and Vortuga

Report/Summary on the belligerents in the war, from discord
 
One thing people have to consider is pollution. AN has confirmed that all factions will use Rapid Develop Industry.

So, the more power we give to the factions, the more pollution producing actions will be taken.
 
McLuvin said:
New Hesperanxer has more money than Nohon, the Tribes have more Money than Nohon, the Redwood Dominion has more money than Nohon. The America's escaped most of the collapse they caused. And the Federation is their fault, their model of economy and economic influence directly caused the collapse that gave rise to the Federation, so setting up a future enemy to fuck us over is directly a cuntish move, even as they don't help us whatsoever with the problem they caused.
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Unless I missed them looting big nations, no, they probably don't. They were hit about as much as Nohon, after all. Plus, selling to them would not empower our rival.

Again, Federation is really not their fault, unless you lay all the faults of laissez-faire on their hands, which hilariously unfair, in my opinion - everyone was practicing it, and not just because they were coping Sketch - it just makes sense as economy.
 
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