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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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If we boost science, we'll likely finish Germ Theory just in time for next turn and progress us within striking range of actually completing the rainbow project next turn.

Also, I believe that progress us toward total domination of the glass market.
 
Kiba said:
Also, I believe that progress us toward total domination of the glass market.
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Probably not significantly, since we're not currently researching any techs that would improve our glass production much. We already passed the point of Rainbow research where learning how to make new kinds of glass was the primary sticking point; now it's just a matter of distribution and implementation.
 
Kiba said:
How would meta-green knows the mass/body ratio of a given species? Makes sense that the meta-green interacts within something with the blood, maybe the DNA?
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There's lots of possibilities we can guess at. Personally, I'm placing my bets on neuronal mass and density. Essentially, if something has enough neurons packed into a given area, the meta green will start affecting it.
 
[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 2 PW - King's Bill (+1 temp SoL, Boost Science Research, +2 Sell Crown Corp Uses)
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

Econ
Industrial Cap 8 (2) (Max. 6+50%) - 8 (5)
Railroads 0/3
Development 29/46+25%
Pollution 0 (2) - I think this should actually be Pollution 2 not Pollution 0 (2), because it's our Permanent IC that's over the IC Soft Cap, not temporary?

Culture
Consciousness 2 (5) -> 2 (3) (Erosion of High Temp Stat) -> 2 (4) (Constitutional Call) -> 2 (5) if Veto Wins
Standard of Living 7 (3) -> 7 (5)
Happiness 5 (2)/10 (-2 from Consciousness/SoL Interaction, -1 from Pollution?) -> 5 (4/10) (-1 from Pollution?, -0 from Consciousness/SoL Interaction) (Wyrmyr at 4 (3/10)
OR
If High Temp Stat Erosion doesn't round non-whole number results towards the Perm Stat
Consciousness 2 (5) -> 2 (4) (Erosion of High Temp Stat) -> 2 (5) (Constitutional Call) -> 2 (6) if Veto Wins
Standard of Living 7 (3) -> 7 (5)
Happiness 5 (2)/10 (-2 from Consciousness/SoL Interaction, -1 from Pollution?) -> 5 (3/10) (-1 from Pollution?, -1 from Consciousness/SoL Interaction) (Wyrmyr at 4 (2/10)​
OR
If Consciousness doesn't drop when Constitutional Call active
Consciousness 2 (5) -> 2(6) (Constitutional Call) -> Veto Wins = 2 (7)
Standard of Living 7 (3) -> 7 (5)
Happiness 5 (2/10) -> 5 (2/10) (-1 from Pollution?, -2 from Consciousness/SoL Interaction) (Wyrmyr at 4 (1/10)

... Okay, Just did that calculation myself and I'm pretty sure I might be missing some things. So I'd appreciate some questions being answered. Either by @Academia Nut or someone else who digs up the answer if AN has already answered the question.

1. Whilst Constitutional Call is active, does high Temp Consciousness erode when stats return toward their permanent stat, or does it just stay stable?
2. The pollution happiness penalty. I know we lost 1 happiness at 1 pollution, but is the next happiness hit at 2 or 3 Pollution?
3. Can someone tell me whether Temp States that are an odd number over their Perm Stat go to the higher or lower whole number when rounding down? I think it's whichever is closest to the Perm Stat, but can someone double-check?
4. Seriously, Permanent IC being over the soft-cap gives Permanent Pollution, not Temporary Pollution right?

That said... looking at this, it appears we're going to be safe. The Railroad only increases the IC cap by 1, which shouldn't affect the Pollution Happiness penalty, and provided CC being active doesn't affect how the Consciousness temp stat works at the end of a turn, we should be fine even if the Veto works. On the other hand, if it does affect things, then we're going have to pray that nothing hurts our happiness or Wyrmyr revolts.

Don't think CC being active does affect things, but it would be an easy and nasty thing to forget. And I can believe that it is happening as well, because that sort of thing is what would affect a stats regrowth/erosion narratively.

If anyone spots anything I'm missing, I'd welcome their input. Really don't want to need the QM telling us we've completely screwed up again, as I definitely don't believe he'd save us a second time. Especially as the last time only just happened, so it should still be in our head telling us to make sure we're right.
 
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pbluekan said:
There's lots of possibilities we can guess at. Personally, I'm placing my bets on neuronal mass and density. Essentially, if something has enough neurons packed into a given area, the meta green will start affecting it.
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If we are talking Lovecraft here...

Probably literally something strange like having a certain soul type or a certain grade of self awareness.
 
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An abridged guide to testing Meta-Green:

Major Hypothesis: (Yours not mentioned? Tag me and I'll add it!)
1) Brain size. Only works on large brains.

2) Brain/Body ratio. It's how you use it

3) Marked Genetics: Preselected to work on certain animals, only.

4) Neural Complexity: Not all brains are created equal.

Tests:

A) Ask Khemetri or BS if we can borrow an elephant. If A), the elephant ought to heal very quickly. Else, only relatively rapidly. (Elephants are pretty smart, after all)

B) Do amputees or dwarfs heal faster than normal humans? If so, strong evidence in favor of 2.

C) Does a recently separated limb heal under light? If so, strong evidence in favor of 3),

D) Do geniuses heal faster than the average person? If so, evidence in favor of 4)

None of these tests are difficult to do, per se. I'm not sure B) will occur to anyone, but A, C, and D probably will. Actually, if D shows results, that could be very dystopic.
 
Citino said:
Negaverse: Who, What, When, Why, And Especially How

RealpolitikWalrus said:
As nice as the (somewhat disturbing) revenge fantasies are, I should point out that OTL China was pretty screwed for about a century. We're slightly better off because we managed to crit our diplomacy roll with the Ymaryngylruv, which gives us an in with the Not!Russians, who aren't exactly going to be friends with the Nohon.

But at this rate, they are probably literally seconds from just calling it quits. We're a pretty big millstone around their neck, and they don't have the range to reach us for more than fairly minor help. Don't get me wrong, the navy they sent is a godsend, but having to sail/march literally thousands of miles to reach the Nohon navy/army is not something they can do for all that long. Unless we pull ourselves together, or they get lucky and the Nohon make a stupid naval decision, they can't do that much to help.
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*sensible chuckle intensifies*

 
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ExNihilo said:
An abridged guide to testing Meta-Green:

Major Hypothesis: (Yours not mentioned? Tag me and I'll add it!)
1) Brain size. Only works on large brains.

2) Brain/Body ratio. It's how you use it

3) Marked Genetics: Preselected to work on certain animals, only.

4) Neural Complexity: Not all brains are created equal.

Tests:

A) Ask Khemetri or BS if we can borrow an elephant. If A), the elephant ought to heal very quickly. Else, only relatively rapidly. (Elephants are pretty smart, after all)

B) Do amputees or dwarfs heal faster than normal humans? If so, strong evidence in favor of 2.

C) Does a recently separated limb heal under light? If so, strong evidence in favor of 3),

D) Do geniuses heal faster than the average person? If so, evidence in favor of 4)

None of these tests are difficult to do, per se. I'm not sure B) will occur to anyone, but A, C, and D probably will. Actually, if D shows results, that could be very dystopic.
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Additional possibility, as raised by tenchifew just now: some sort of (possibly dualistic) "soul" is actually real in this setting, and possessing one is a requirement for being affected by meta-green. Difficult to find positive evidence for such a hypothesis without additional capabilities, as if this is true meta-green would currently be the only soul-detecting mechanism we have, but it should be considered at least as a possible explanation if other theories don't pan out.

Or hey, maybe there's some particular physical structure by which the soul interfaces with the material (a la Descartes's view of the pineal gland) in which case finding such a structure in all affected creatures (and not in unaffected ones) would be positive evidence for its involvement in some way. Come to think of it, that wouldn't even strictly require souls to be involved, though how the meta-green would "know" about the presence of this structure would still be a standing question.
 
One important question is the actual mechanism of action. As in, how exactly does it heal? We know basically two things:
  1. It isn't classically conceptual healing. It closes the wounds, but if there are bacteria or debris inside, they are left there.
  2. If a wound is healed already, it won't be rehealed. As in, an amputee whose skin has grown over the stump and "healed." Won't begin to grow a new arm.
We don't yet know some of the more important things.
  1. Does it just induce cell division and repair of damaged areas?(So far, this is all we have seen.)
  2. In which case, where does the energy come from? The individual or the light itself?
  3. Where are the necessary nutrients coming from?
  4. What are the boundaries? Can it heal fresh amputations?Whappens to amputated limbs that have healed over and been re opened?
 
So I'm thinking after this war we wait for a decade or so and during that decade do intrigue on Not!Korea, then stir them into rebellion and use that as an excuse to fight the Nohon and liberate Not! Korea whilst taking over their Kyberian Ports.

Should be doable, the Not! Korean hate them and Hung in whatever state it's in would likely give us supplies if it screws he Nohon.

What do you guys think?
 
McLuvin said:
So I'm thinking after this war we wait for a decade or so and during that decade do intrigue on Not!Korea, then stir them into rebellion and use that as an excuse to fight the Nohon and liberate Not! Korea whilst taking over their Kyberian Ports.

Should be doable, the Not! Korean hate them and Hung in whatever state it's in would likely give us supplies if it screws he Nohon.

What do you guys think?
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I've been suggesting that since we first made contact with the Nohon. I say give the Chesun a taste of nationalism, stoke those fires as high as we can get them, and then assist during the inevitable war a few decades in the future.
 
We might want to send DO to the Hung emperor to let him know that we are running out of resources to help them and that they need to get their act together soon before we physically can no longer help them do to war exhaustion.

Maybe a chance to send some military advisors for free to help them get their shit together?
 
Maybe we just throw DO at the Eastern polities while we quietly start the constitution reform?:V Nippon would be getting so many mixed signals.
 
pbluekan said:
If a wound is healed already, it won't be rehealed. As in, an amputee whose skin has grown over the stump and "healed." Won't begin to grow a new arm.
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I'd be cautious of counting too much on this one - they haven't been able to do that yet but they've mentioned wanting to perform further tests on the matter, which implies there's at least a chance that it just requires (as proposed in the update) more light/a higher intensity/etc.
 
Wiadi said:
I'd be cautious of counting too much on this one - they haven't been able to do that yet but they've mentioned wanting to perform further tests on the matter, which implies there's at least a chance that it just requires (as proposed in the update) more light/a higher intensity/etc.
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True enough, I interpreted that more as: "If we take a previously healed amputee and cut the healed over skin or amputate again, higher, would the whole thing regrow, or just to the site of amputation?"

Also, welcome to 1800's medicine. Terrifying shit.
 
pbluekan said:
True enough, I interpreted that more as: "If we take a previously healed amputee and cut the healed over skin or amputate again, higher, would the whole thing regrow, or just to the site of amputation?"

Also, welcome to 1800's medicine. Terrifying shit.
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Huh. How powerful is it? Can it restart a heart, resurrect the recently dead? Cause Zombie Armies in Russia may very well cause the rest of the world to rush us.
 
ExNihilo said:
Huh. How powerful is it? Can it restart a heart, resurrect the recently dead? Cause Zombie Armies in Russia may very well cause the rest of the world to rush us.
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Considering how non-portable the apparatus currently is, we'd probably need to murder a researcher on-site to test that. Obviously not a popular idea.

...Intrigue Mission? :V
 
Wiadi said:
Considering how non-portable the apparatus currently is, we'd probably need to murder a researcher on-site to test that. Obviously not a popular idea.

...Intrigue Mission? :V
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Presumably, it's being tested near redshore. If we wanted to we could grab a death row patient or someone on the brink of death. Not saying it's a good idea, just that it is one.
 
Well, one other thing we know, at least at the current level of development, is that it doesn't cure disease. I'm pretty sure it isn't even healing or life, it's just "growth."
 
[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased
[X][Bill] 1 PW - Veto (+1 temp Consciousness)
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)

F o r W e i h a r
 
War
[X][War] Continue War - Royalists Pleased

Spending Bill
[X][Bill] 2 PW - Naval Armaments Bill (-1 IC, +1 Temp IC, +1 Navy, +2 Temp SoL, +4 Sell Crown Corp Uses, Royalists Pleased)

Kielmyr Railroad Development
[X][Rails] 1 PW - Yes please (Kielmyr Invest, gain +1 Railroads)
 
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