• You are not voted to be a monarch, which means you do not need populist agenda to get in.
  • Your position is naturally suited to be over the law, meaning this power will be accepted easier.
  • You can do long-term projects and not worry about being voted out in a year or four.
  • You can be tested long before assuming direct control to see how good is your aptitude for rulership.
1. Monarchs can still be populists or have other stupid agendas.
2. Oh? Tell me, if monarchs having such power is so easy to be accepted, why did alot of them end up having nothing but a ceremonial role? Maybe, maybe people don't really want an unelected monarch to set aside the will of the people.
3. Long-term projects aren't necessarily good. If you have a bad monarch, you're stuck with a bad project for an entire generation, if not more.
4. Who makes the tests? The one who does can insert his own personal bias into them.
Cool, and fortunately, Ymaryn has a historical record of electing the most able/competent person as heir and then ruler.

You can try to snidely poke at it, but I'm not seeing you propose a better system.
The Ymaryn are only as competent as the playerbase. And why should I have to propose a better system when we already have a perfectly good one in the form of a democratic republic?
 
Cool, and fortunately, Ymaryn has a historical record of electing the most able/competent person as heir and then ruler.

Presumably, one can test for "a good grasp of tactics/economy/diplomacy". We have the best scholars in the world, the Royal scions would have the best education in the world.

You can try to snidely poke at it, but I'm not seeing you propose a better system.

They have a history of electing people who are competent, but not necessarily hypercompetent rulers since if you stick out like sore thumbs, you will get hammered down.
 
  1. What?!? they aren't even remotely similar. A democracy is where you get people to vote on laws and such to determine what gets done and what doesn't get done. I'm proposing combining an Elective Monarchy with using a meritocratic formula to limit who gets nominated in the first place. If you're thinking of a republic, where people represent other people in the government, then I shall let you call it a republic if it makes you feel better. It really isn't though since it's the King's job to look run a country more so than represent the people. Granted, a huge portion of that is helping the people.
  2. That's a good question. It might be the former Monarch selects their heir as it used to be done, it might be the nobles decide among themselves, perhaps the test is designed by representatives of the people (A weird combination of aspects of a republic and monarchy with the republic controlling what they think needs to be known by the current monarch? Could be good, could be a nightmare, would have to think on it more and the devil would likely be in the details). There are lots of possibilities, some could work, some would be horrible, but choosing the heir based solely on age and gender is only really important for maintaining alliances and merging various groups of people together under one house. That diplomacy has some promise, definitely, but we are slowly moving away from that being needed.

1. What? You are describing a direct democracy basically; in a normal one, a lot of positions, including entirety of judicial branch, is unelected. Laws are passed via vote, but vote of only elected representatives, each (mostly) with education and whatnot. Some are assholes, but you cannot really make an exam of non-assholishness because it's hard to find less vague criteria.
2. But, again, why not just add position of Chancellor/President for executive power with very long term and give power of impeachment to High House? What monarchy adds to it?
Make the Houses elect said Chancellor to introduce a degree of removal from popular vote.

  • You are not voted to be a monarch, which means you do not need populist agenda to get in.
  • Your position is naturally suited to be over the law, meaning this power will be accepted easier.
  • You can do long-term projects and not worry about being voted out in a year or four.
  • You can be tested long before assuming direct control to see how good is your aptitude for rulership.

That's....called a sane system of State Department?
Bureaucrats are not elected, and are naturally more meritocratic than monarchs.

In sane countries judges or lawyers are not elected.



Like, my problem is that you lot basically take a job of non-elected official, which normally is promoted through mostly meritocratic internals of state, and for some unfathomable reason add monarchy to it. It's, in the best case, not an impediment to the "non-elected official" part, but it's not really a boon.

Supreme Court, Attorney General, so on: there are literal thousands of non-elected positions of extremely serious power in any democratic country. Adding heredity to one or more of them is just...pointless if "avoiding harmful populism" is your goal, because those systems already do it without mixing the perverse incentives wrt family and heredity into it.
 
Where are you getting that from? I live in a democratic nation and things seem just fine here.

He's Brazilian, apparently, and there is Trump going on. So...

But, well, saying that the problem is democracy and not, you know, unchecked wealth inequality + shitty polsci education of masses leading to ability of a few with money to buy mass media enough to influence entire nations, or a lot of other factors, is not only reductionist, but also likely wrong.
 
He's Brazilian, apparently, and there is Trump going on. So...

But, well, saying that the problem is democracy and not, you know, unchecked wealth inequality + shitty polsci education of masses leading to ability of a few with money to buy mass media enough to influence entire nations, or a lot of other factors, is not only reductionist, but also likely wrong.
I'm saying the republic system has proven itself extraordinarily vulnerable to the pitfalls of modern technology.

Thinking on it, I was unfair. Just because mine is shit not all are. Hell, one of my aims has always been to jump ship.

I think it's more accurate to say that republics tend to become rudder-less ships. They might be nice ships, but ultimately, they become almost aimless. You have to have a cause or person come and galvanize everyone to lean to one side or another to steer it.

If you accept the premise that people are inherently selfish, it becomes a matter of aligning the interests of the ruler and those of the nation. From there on, things naturally fall in line.

A monarch of some sort has that as defaul.
 
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Ignoring real life for a moment, didn't we run into a lot of difficulty with this just before the lightning rounds began?

A select few voted against the interest and consensus of the entire thread? Yes, it was an issue of coordination, but coordination that required more than just the majority of voters.

We don't always make the best decision, but on the whole, we're a lot more rational voters than IRL republics.
 
tldr: Every choice has its complications.

I think it's more accurate to say that republics tend to become rudder-less ships. They might be nice ships, but ultimately, they become almost aimless. You have to have a cause or person come and galvanize everyone to lean to one side or another to steer it.
That's kind of how everything is. Admittedly, Republics and Democracies are probably more prone to that than Monarchies, because everyone rather than 1-ish person needs to become invested in a cause. But that still assumes there is a cause that isn't the default "grow strong, maintain peace."

E: We're rational until someone attacks us, at which point we're about par w/ irl voters.
Probably helps that there's less of us and we're similar people.
 
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The point in favor of Monarchies over Republics or Democracies is that in a Monarchy you only need to have a few people who are very well learned and have an understanding of the things necessary for a nation to prosper (geopolitical situations, diplomacy, macroeconomics), while in a Democracy, the majority of the country has to have that same level of understanding in order to properly vote in people who are well learned enough to properly govern.

Monarchies run into the problem of the people who are supposed to be well learned being pretty shit, and Democracies run into the problem of voter apathy and the populace not knowing enough about running a nation in order to vote for their best interests, instead voting for the person who looks/sounds the best.

Both systems have flaws, and I wouldn't necessarily call one system superior over the other, but I am in favor of seeing if we can keep on trucking with a Monarchy instead of giving in and becoming a Western Democracy.
 
I meant that by default kings find their interests aligned not with those of the nation but those of the upper class. Even if you ignore the cases of deliberate selfishness and malice, which you absolutely should not, those are the circles in which they travel. It's incredibly easy for a monarch with actual power to become totally insulated from their people.

When it comes to hereditary monarchies, country tends to serve the interests of the monarch, not the other way around.
 
Well, I can get the desire to avoid becoming Stock Western Democracy, as this is boring as shit; but my preferred path is stupendous education (aka "everyone with several degrees in social sciences and economics") making direct democracy possible instead of, you know, sorta dumb.

Because, yeah, while "monarch cares about The Realm first" sounds nice, in practice monarch tends to care about the interest of the realm as he, with the perspective of Upper Nobility, sees it.
 
A high level of education is always useful.
The lower house of parliament is intended to provide a clearer picture of the interests of the realm.
 
Well, I can get the desire to avoid becoming Stock Western Democracy, as this is boring as shit; but my preferred path is stupendous education (aka "everyone with several degrees in social sciences and economics") making direct democracy possible instead of, you know, sorta dumb.

Because, yeah, while "monarch cares about The Realm first" sounds nice, in practice monarch tends to care about the interest of the realm as he, with the perspective of Upper Nobility, sees it.
As long as you are talking about nice dreams, "everyone have several degrees and are rational voters" doesn't really looks more good or possible than "Monarch is super-learned, capable and cares for the good of the whole of the Realm".
 
I want to keep the monarchy for two reasons.

One is that I want to see if we can pull it off.

Two is that we already have a democracy: us. I really do not want to add yet another layer to that system.
 
Also people does not seems to take inte consideration that there are huge differences between democracies in how the system is setup.

For example I would argue that a lot of USA's inability to get things done has quite a lot to do with how there political system is structured.
USA has a first past the post voting system, this leads to them only having two parties because voting for a third party only makes it likelier that the party you like the least wins.
But they also have a president, a lower and upper house that all need to agree to make anything happen.
On top of that they also have the filibuster to make sure that even if one of the parties have control over all three positions that they still need 2/3 majority.

To make matters worse there has been an increased polarization between the two parties and they are having trouble working together.
Even to the point where they have in short periods shut down because they can not get along.

If there where large enough third parties they could get around that by simply forming a big enoug coalition goverment.
 
Well, I can get the desire to avoid becoming Stock Western Democracy, as this is boring as shit; but my preferred path is stupendous education (aka "everyone with several degrees in social sciences and economics") making direct democracy possible instead of, you know, sorta dumb.

-and a continent, and a spaceship, and a magic mirror capable of conveying absolute objective truth, and a pony named sparkles who farts rainbows...
 
-and a continent, and a spaceship, and a magic mirror capable of conveying absolute objective truth, and a pony named sparkles who farts rainbows...

I am talking about arguments which propose "monarchs who are better than democracy because they genuinely care for country and are not swayed for populism", so I am comfortable with leaving realistic expectations out of conversation.
 
If we're talking about unrealistic expectations, why not turn to AI? Programmatic bureaucracy at its finest.
>I'm sorry sir, but the room-sized clockwork device says your taxes are xxx.
 
If we're talking about unrealistic expectations, why not turn to AI? Programmatic bureaucracy at its finest.
>I'm sorry sir, but the room-sized clockwork device says your taxes are xxx.

Whenever people talk about computers like that, I recall Accelerando and decide that, uh. It's a good idea, but caveat emptor.
 
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