Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Character Creation 1 Results
Adhoc vote count started by FractiousDay on Dec 20, 2020 at 2:37 AM, finished with 74 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Wandering Blademaster
    - [X] Grokmash
    - [X] Male
    - [X] Burning Blade
    - [X] Warrior
    - [X] For Azeroth
    [X] Plan: The Reverse Image
    -[X] Angrais
    -[X] Female
    -[X] Mok'Nathal
    -[X] Shaman
    -[X] For Azeroth
    [X] Plan SleepyBeep
    [X] Plan: The lost one
    -[X] Male
    -[X] Stormreaver
    -[X] Necrolyte
    -[X] For Yourself
    [x] plan honor
    [X] Plan Ninja Orc
    -[X] Female
    -[X] Akiria
    -[X] Shattered Hand
    -[X] Rogue
    -[X] For Azeroth
    [X] Plan the dark arts
    -[X] (name idk)
    -[X] Male
    -[X] clanless
    -[X] Necrolyte
    -[X] For Yourself
    [X] Plan: The legion broke my home. I will burn them with my light.
    -[X] (Name)
    -[X] Male
    -[X] Mag'har
    -[X] Lightwielder
    -[X] For Azeroth
    [X] Plan Cast Fist
    -[X] Male
    -[X] Mok'Nathal
    -[X] Monk
    -[X] For Yourself


Blademaster wins, picking up an unexpected lead over Reverse Image!

Voting is now closed.

I'll now go and write the next update. I'd already started writing options for a shaman as that seemed to be winning, but happily Blademasters have a connection to the spirits so I can adapt that a bit.

In the next update we'll try and go for a non-plan format of votes for some of it to prevent some people's votes being entirely wasted, though undoubtedly this is simply something in questions one has to deal with.
 
I only got into Hearthstone recently, and have read a fic on Warcraft before. How knowledgable will I jave to be to enjoy the fic?
 
I only got into Hearthstone recently, and have read a fic on Warcraft before. How knowledgable will I jave to be to enjoy the fic?
Depends what you mean. You wouldn't be allowed to use OOC knowledge, and the MCs actions are limited by their knowledge and inclinations, as such you don't have to worry about not knowing things because anything of relevance will be established in the story, and supplemental information posts.

As one example, I wrote a post on why it might not be the best idea to be a druid, you'd have eventually discover this in story, but knowing about it before the choice was advantageous because the voters could consider it better. Some of that relied on specific sort of fringe knowledge about things like the Pack Form which would be quite difficult to come across unless you'd read a lot of Warcraft stuff.

In general though I'm acknowledged to be good at worldbuilding, so I wouldn't think less knowledge would be a problem. You can always go watch a youtube video or something if you're unsure. Alternately you can post here which will be helpful because it'll put the thread to the top of the board again which means more people will see it.

Which story did you read?
 
Depends what you mean. You wouldn't be allowed to use OOC knowledge, and the MCs actions are limited by their knowledge and inclinations, as such you don't have to worry about not knowing things because anything of relevance will be established in the story, and supplemental information posts.

As one example, I wrote a post on why it might not be the best idea to be a druid, you'd have eventually discover this in story, but knowing about it before the choice was advantageous because the voters could consider it better. Some of that relied on specific sort of fringe knowledge about things like the Pack Form which would be quite difficult to come across unless you'd read a lot of Warcraft stuff.

In general though I'm acknowledged to be good at worldbuilding, so I wouldn't think less knowledge would be a problem. You can always go watch a youtube video or something if you're unsure. Alternately you can post here which will be helpful because it'll put the thread to the top of the board again which means more people will see it.

Which story did you read?
It wasn't anywhere on SV or SB, it was about am OC warlock and the author had them do some important plot stuff like join Varian and Broll in slavery or fight against edwin.
 
It wasn't anywhere on SV or SB, it was about am OC warlock and the author had them do some important plot stuff like join Varian and Broll in slavery or fight against edwin.
Not heard of it but cool, if you know about Varian and Broll then you'd have a decent grounding in some of the Kalimdor lore, as well as the wider stuff like the machinations of the Black Dragonflight.
 
Character Creation 2
Winning vote

[X] Plan: Wandering Blademaster
- [X] Grok'mash
By authorial fiat I'm modifying the name slightly to better reflect orcish naming customs. I'll say now that I wouldn't mind if you wanted to change it as it seems somewhat abrupt (which tbh lots of Orc names are). It's very close to 'Grommash' for example which could mechanically give you diplo bonuses to Warsong interactions. @SpaceSloth it was your idea so you have right of refusal on this.
- [X] Male
You are superior physically to most sentient races on Azeroth. All other things being equal your strength and mass will allow you to win against any lesser foe and you'll be more able to face large foes such as Vrykul with greater chances of success than if you were smaller. In general you have more significant martial obligations than if you were female, such as being expected to fight in battle if called on.
- [X] Burning Blade
Your clan is a complex one. On Draenor yours were the finest swordsmen in the world, using magic and skill to fell even the largest of foes, and using fel energy to enhance your abilities. On Azeroth your clan is split, scattered and broken by the demonic invasion of the Third War many of your clan still serve the Burning Legion, attempting to infiltrate the Horde and bathe the world in green fire once again. Others however are loyal and attempt to root out corruption and infiltrators. Which side to you fall on?
- [X] Warrior
It can be said that all Orcs are warriors really. Whether with axe or spear you can stand in a shield wall or duel many opponents and win. Similarly this class makes excellent use of your size and strength. Nevertheless, you're vulnerable to essentially everything you're not such as magic and ranged warfare, and it can be difficulty to find equipment given technological underdevelopment of the Orcs.

This class is modified by your clan and the specific martial traditions of the Burning Blade. You aren't a Blademaster yet, but you can become one and you have some idea of the basics.

- [X] For Azeroth

You've observed that regardless of who's fighting, everyone seems to lose. There are great threats to Azeroth and you plan to stand against them, regardless of who you have to fight with, whether Orcs or otherwise.

This motivation is modified by your clan and you are particularly aware of the threat of the Burning Legion, while being less aware of things like the Twilight's Hammer.

Slight changes to Character Creation System

Now we move onto the next part of the character creation. Before we proceed I'd like to change the options slightly. While ordinarily more advantageous choices would cost some sort of character points (CP), because the whole point of this quest is to explore agency, instead more advantageous choices will provide these points, while choices which give agency will cost points. For example in the last update you chose 'Burning Blade' for your clan, this will retroactively be a neutral CP cost, because while the Burning Blade clan will provide advantages, you'll also be expected to fulfil certain duties. This would likely be the same as if you'd chosen something like Shattered Hand.

As above, greater obligations = +CPs, greater agency = -CPs. I'd say to aim for CP neutrality, but if you have leftover CP credit or debt then events providing greater agency or obligations will materialise.

You can also choose to spend CPs on useful items like better gear or a mount in the next update as this is another way you might acquire agency, whereas otherwise you'd have to rely on your clan to equip you.

Let me know if this is unclear, I'm going to award you 1 CP to spend in the this update, and CP will be carried over and tallied up into debt or credit at the end of the character creation.

In the next update we're going to be rolling for a couple of things such as your performance in the Valley of Trials, as well as your physical, magical and spiritual potential. You can use CP (and potentially go into debt) to reroll these, or spend it on various traits.



Background
You are Grok'mash, orc warrior of the Burning Blade Clan, and after proving yourself in the Valley of Trials you're returning to Clan and Home.

Who waits for you there? Who were your parents?

This section allows you to choose your social rank. Orcs can increase their social rank, usually though martial prowess or other displays of 'strength' which can also include magic or crafting. Due to the cultural and environmental pressures of the Orcs I'm assuming that higher status parents are likely to produce stronger and healthier offspring. You'll be able to enhance yourself in various ways though choices, which like everything will have consequences.

[ ] Peons (-1 CP)

Your parents were of the lowest rank in Orcish society, manual labourers barely better than slaves. You may have inherited your parents weakness, or whatever else had them assigned at birth to this strata of society. The life of a peon is a hard one, and any warriors who know about your birth will scorn you for it, but you hardly intend to advertise it. A notable example of a peon is Gul'dan, who was born physically weaker and exiled from his clan, but who became one of the most influential and powerful orcs in history due to his skill as a warlock. This option gives you the least obligations but also provides no benefits.

[ ] Low-ranked (-2 CP)

Your parents were low ranked warriors like grunts or hunters. The largest body of a clan is usually made up of such individuals, and with this option you'll gain minor bonuses to combat, while not having any major obligations any other member of the Clan wouldn't also have. This options provides the greatest agency and minor obligations.

[ ] Crafters (-1 CP)

Crafters are an intermediate category representing the collective craftspeople of the Clan. These range from basic trades like potters to more prestigious tradespeople like blacksmiths and alchemists. You've learned some of your parents trade through observation so have the beginnings of a marketable skill, but also may be expected to take up your parents work to serve the Clan in future.

[ ] High-ranked (+2 CP)

You originate among the higher ranks of the Clan such as higher-ranked warriors like raid leaders. You gain additional martial competency as well as minor increases to tactics and leadership. You will be expected to fight for the Clan and may be hunted down and brought back to the Clan if you decide to shirk your responsibilities.

[ ] Leadership (+3 CP)

You are directly related to the Burning Blade Clan's leadership. You receive significant advantages in skill increases and the potential to receive various boons such as equipment from your family. You have explicit responsibilities to fulfil.

Once you choose one of these the next update will make two rolls for the status and history of your family. If you chose 'Leadership' a high roll in both might result in you being the Clan heir, whereas a low roll might result in you being a cousin of the Clan Shaman.

Class abilities

You've chosen 'Burning Blade' and 'Warrior' as parts of your origin. These combine due to the martial traditions of your people and you have begun the path of the Blademaster, legendary orc warriors of the Burning Blade clan well known for their mastery of weaponry. The harsh world of Draenor produced many martial traditions, from the shadow-war of the Bleeding Hollow to the alchemically-induced fanaticism of the Bonechewer Clan. Unlike Warsong raiders or ironclad Blackrocks your people favour a combination of agility and power, using swords and polearms rather than the usual axes of the Orcs. This has given Blademasters a significant measure of prestige due to their unusual and effective fighting style, combining martial skill with magical enhancement.

Blademasters use a combination of elements in a similar manner to Shaman, but in a far more limited way. With the Spirit of Air Blademasters can make themselves almost invisible, passing through solid objects or swinging their blades faster than the eye can see, while the Spirit of Fire gives your Clan their famous name. Some Blademasters on Draenor have adopted the Ogre magic, combining different elements in the same way Arcanists do, while more recently many Blademasters have turned to the Fel after drinking demonblood and being abandoned by the elements.

While in the Old Horde the Burning Blade were mainly known as a warrior clan, in Thrall's Horde your clan is sundered. More than half the clan still serves the Burning Legion, plotting the Horde's downfall, while the remaining Blademasters who've stayed loyal have sworn oaths to free their people from demonic corruption, some working from the shadows to achieve this.

Because of your choice you're effectively multi-classing between the melee, magic and stealth related arts. As such, at this point you have no option to choose a more advanced skill because you're already splitting your focus over several areas.

Choose 2 Class Skills and 1 Miscellaneous Skill.

Alternatively, you may choose to multi-class further by exchanging 1 Class Skill for a randomly chosen Miscellaneous Skill from another Class. To make this clear, either you choose:

Burning Blade Warrior Skills
2 Class Skills
1 Misc Skill


OR

Burning Blade Warrior Skills
1 Class Skill
1 Misc Skill

Other Class Skill
1 Misc Skill


As an example, you're lacking in non-combat utility and ranged combat. If you choose a multiclass skill which is closer to your regular class you'll get a better 'random' skill.

If you want, you can take up to 1 additional Class and 1 additional Misc skill at a cost of 2CP each.

Skill Choices

In general you'll advanced far faster with proper trainers. You've been sent to the Valley of Trials for basic training, meaning mainly how to swing your weapon as well as some basic survival skills. Because you've picked Warrior as a class this basic weapon training has been upgraded.

You're free to ask about any of the specifics of these before you choose them. Whenever the skill mentions randomly assigning an ability a roll will be involved.

I don't want to concentrate massively on the skills as I find they tend to be forgotten over time. However you may find it necessary to quantify them. I'm going to make a basic system for this, but given its my first quest I might change it later, suggestions welcome.

Due to your origins you gain: Weapon Competency, Basic Tactics, Basic Survivalist, Basic Physical Conditioning, Basic Demonslaying.

Class Skills available

[ ] Advanced Weapon Competency

Your Clan were always known for their skill with weapons and you're no exception.

[ ] Physical Conditioning

You're no longer a recruit, at least not in body and you can run, march and fight as long as other professional soldiers.

[ ] Battlesight

Farseers see far, you can see near. Sometimes in battle you'll get vague premonitions, flashes of what's about to happen.

[ ] Tactics

You are a reasonable tactician and can analyse and plan most tactical situations.

[ ] Basic Leadership

You comprehend the basics of leadership, including a loud voice and confident manner in command.

[ ] Elemental Connection

You already have a connection with one of the elements and are able to bargain for minor things. You'll be able to strengthen this connection as you go on. AT LEAST 1 ELEMENTAL ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, AFFINITY RANDOMLY ASSIGNED NEXT UPDATE IF CHOSEN.

[ ] Battle Fury

While many Orcs embrace the primal instincts of your forebears, you've learned to control this instinct better than most and are able to harness it in battle.

[ ] Precision

Your strikes are more precise than most, enabling you to target the weaker points of foes with your blade.

[ ] Stealth

You comprehend the basics of stealthy action including movement and attack, particularly important given your size and weight as an Orc.

[ ] Basic Demonic Magic

You know some of the basics of Fel magic, such as layering Fel over you as armour or using the shadows to harm your enemies. AT LEAST 1 RANDOM ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, VERY MINOR RISK OF CORRUPTION DEPENDING ON USAGE.


Miscellaneous Skills available

[ ] Basic Riding

You are a reasonably good rider, specifically of the worgs Orcs use in Durotar, and are able to fight from the saddle too, thought not well. Mount not included.

[ ] Survivalist

While you already knew how to handle yourself, including the very basics of survival in the lands of Durotar you've now become a more competent survivalist and could keep yourself alive in most environments.

[ ] Basic Scholarship

While the Orcs aren't a scholarly people, you've picked up some basics of the histories and social life of many peoples.

[ ] Crafting: Basic (Write in)

You've picked up some of the basics of this trade.

[ ] Basic Persuasion

There are many ways to persuade others to assist you and you at least know about most of them. As an Orc you can always try and intimidate anyone smaller than you, but you've also learned to understand the other person's perspective and target your persuasion better.

[ ] Basic Arcane Magic

You've developed an affinity for Arcane Magic. Currently this isn't anything you could use in combat, but with more learning perhaps it could be? For the moment you're able to make minor enchantments, or use certain cantrips.



2 Hour moratorium on voting for discussion!
 
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We get 1CP to start, we can get more CP by picking more obligations effectively...

mmm... makes sense, not sure I like it how there are no effectively neutral options.

@FractiousDay likely an effect of how the system works or is worded but ATM

As above, greater obligations = +CPs, greater agency = -CPs
Picking the big option has relatively few downsides.

I'm assuming you're keeping track of total CP earned rather CP remaining, otherwise we'd have no reason not to go for high options and then spend 4 CP on skills to get us to neutrality.

Also to check there will be more character creation after this? Apologies personal preference for getting these kind of point buy character creation systems done all at once.
 
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So to work out in my head (calling for a basic mortarium maybe an hour to discuss?)
2 hours now, thanks for the reminder.
Picking the big option has relatively few downsides.

I'm assuming you're keeping track of total CP earned rather CP remaining, otherwise we'd have no reason not to go for high options and then spend 4 CP on skills to get us to neutrality.

Also to check there will be more character creation after this? Apologies personal preference for getting these kind of point buy character creation systems done all at once.
Yes that's as designed. You can choose to be a powerhouse with various abilities etc, but you will then be forced to take on obligations. I realise this is sort of backwards but I realised after the first character creation that I needed some way to force you to take on obligations which then create conflict in the story and to explore the theme of agency. If Reverse Image had been picked the primary conflict would come from interactions with the elements due to the Shaman choice, whereas the Mok'Nathal Clan choice would mean that you'd be friendly with the Frostwolves and Warsong because of Rexxar's history, and that you wouldn't have any clan obligations at all because you're not really a clan. I probably would have had people trying to use your name and unusual nature to promote their own causes 'I've got a half orc warrior arent they exotic' etc, but here I'm trying to force you to choose options that will create these chains of obligation.

As for CP, I'll keep track of CP earned and lost in total. For example, you've got 1 now, if you pick 'Leadership' you'll have 4 total. If you then pick an extra class and misc skill you'll be back to 0.

There will be 1 (?) more character creation post after this, going into the specifics (eg if you pick elemental affinity I'll roll for your element and spell etc) as well as picking traits and a generalised segment to spend any remaining CP or to take on additional obligations if you're already in CP debt. I realise the inclination to have all of it at once but this being the first quest I've written I sort of need time to think about it :D

As for 'no reason not to go for high options', beware of obligations. You're in the Burning Blade. Half your Clan are demon worshippers and canonically your 'loyal' clan head is also one. If you turn out to be his heir you'll have plenty of conflicts.
 
As someone whole loves tools and multifunction tools, e.g. Mass Effect Omni-Tool, magic freuently falls into that catogary for me. What can we do with this:


[ ] Basic Arcane Magic

You've developed an affinity for Arcane Magic. Currently this isn't anything you could use in combat, but with more learning perhaps it could be? For the moment you're able to make minor enchantments, or use certain cantrips.

? Clean our clothes? Fix damaged stuff, what is the shape of things we can use this for?
 
Apologies @FractiousDay I fear my munchkinying tendencies are leaking out.

Never the less I don't want to focus on that, its not the point of the quest, so I'll make a purely narrative argument for my ideas.

[ ] High-ranked (+2 CP)

You originate among the higher ranks of the Clan such as higher-ranked warriors like raid leaders. You gain additional martial competency as well as minor increases to tactics and leadership. You will be expected to fight for the Clan and may be hunted down and brought back to the Clan if you decide to shirk your responsibilities.

[ ] Leadership (+3 CP)

You are directly related to the Burning Blade Clan's leadership. You receive significant advantages in skill increases and the potential to receive various boons such as equipment from your family. You have explicit responsibilities to fulfil.

Once you choose one of these the next update will make two rolls for the status and history of your family. If you chose 'Leadership' a high roll in both might result in you being the Clan heir, whereas a low roll might result in you being a cousin of the Clan Shaman.
For me there is a reasonable argument to want to pick these. While it would be major obligations, the role of the clan (assuming we're in the horde) is hunting down enemy burning blades and having picked Azeroth as a motivation I think we can safely say that we're unlikely to join the Burning Crusade, Void danger or no.

As such I think it would be an interesting story, the world minded high ranking member of this clan who would have both a say in horde politics and...
If you turn out to be his heir you'll have plenty of conflicts.
Yeah ninja'd interesting stuff to say the least.

Lots of ways it could go a sort of counter Grommash, all the martial skill, but a less awful personality and so on.

You're doing a good job of emphasising the downsides to taking a high ranking position well though, cause

[ ] Peons (-1 CP)

Your parents were of the lowest rank in Orcish society, manual labourers barely better than slaves. You may have inherited your parents weakness, or whatever else had them assigned at birth to this strata of society. The life of a peon is a hard one, and any warriors who know about your birth will scorn you for it, but you hardly intend to advertise it. A notable example of a peon is Gul'dan, who was born physically weaker and exiled from his clan, but who became one of the most influential and powerful orcs in history due to his skill as a warlock. This option gives you the least obligations but also provides no benefits.

[ ] Low-ranked (-2 CP)

Your parents were low ranked warriors like grunts or hunters. The largest body of a clan is usually made up of such individuals, and with this option you'll gain minor bonuses to combat, while not having any major obligations any other member of the Clan wouldn't also have. This options provides the greatest agency and minor obligations.

[ ] Crafters (-1 CP)

Crafters are an intermediate category representing the collective craftspeople of the Clan. These range from basic trades like potters to more prestigious tradespeople like blacksmiths and alchemists. You've learned some of your parents trade through observation so have the beginnings of a marketable skill, but also may be expected to take up your parents work to serve the Clan in future.
These are the options by which I imagine we end up more of a traditional Azerothian Adventurer...which I also really want to do and opens up a ton more options in terms of how we go about our goals.

I'll do some analysis into skills and then create some proto plans.
 
[ ] Advanced Weapon Competency

Your Clan were always known for their skill with weapons and you're no exception.

[ ] Physical Conditioning

You're no longer a recruit, at least not in body and you can run, march and fight as long as other professional soldiers.

[ ] Battlesight

Farseers see far, you can see near. Sometimes in battle you'll get vague premonitions, flashes of what's about to happen.
The building block options. Each of these add to something we're already very good at, the battlesight especially feeling like something we could really get a lot out of, but they're not key themselves cept for maybe battlesight.

Out of the 3, I'd take battlesight.

[ ] Tactics

You are a reasonable tactician and can analyse and plan most tactical situations.

[ ] Basic Leadership

You comprehend the basics of leadership, including a loud voice and confident manner in command.
The raid leader skills, very useful if we plan on going high clan or trying to organise a party.

[ ] Elemental Connection

You already have a connection with one of the elements and are able to bargain for minor things. You'll be able to strengthen this connection as you go on. AT LEAST 1 ELEMENTAL ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, AFFINITY RANDOMLY ASSIGNED NEXT UPDATE IF CHOSEN.
[ ] Basic Demonic Magic

You know some of the basics of Fel magic, such as layering Fel over you as armour or using the shadows to harm your enemies. AT LEAST 1 RANDOM ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, VERY MINOR RISK OF CORRUPTION DEPENDING ON USAGE.
The randomisers. Both are good, I prefer elemental connection.

[ ] Battle Fury

While many Orcs embrace the primal instincts of your forebears, you've learned to control this instinct better than most and are able to harness it in battle.
The orky ability, but one with a lot of utility, as controlling the instincts of orcish anger is very useful considering how it can end up with a lot of unncessary dead.

[ ] Precision

Your strikes are more precise than most, enabling you to target the weaker points of foes with your blade.

[ ] Stealth

You comprehend the basics of stealthy action including movement and attack, particularly important given your size and weight as an Orc.
Sneaky, but personally I'd say it'd buy into certain things...mmm precision especially on a narrative level feels like it'd be very nice to have.

[ ] Basic Scholarship

While the Orcs aren't a scholarly people, you've picked up some basics of the histories and social life of many peoples.
[ ] Basic Persuasion

There are many ways to persuade others to assist you and you at least know about most of them. As an Orc you can always try and intimidate anyone smaller than you, but you've also learned to understand the other person's perspective and target your persuasion better.
I won't go over all of these, but scholarship works best with an idea I have in mind, persuasion would be a godsend under any circumstance and magic is well cool, unique and interesting.
 
With that in mind I have a pair of proto plans

Proto Plan: The Wandering Scholar Ronin
Background: Peons
Class skills: Battlesight, Battle Fury
Other Skill: Basic Scholarship

CP balance 0

This plan essentially takes us to zero CP and lets us do mostly what we want. My idea for it would be our guy wandering around, helping and learning where they can, defeating the forces of evil etc. Very much Azerothian Adventurer, which would let us you know...get involved in the world!

And there's a big one out there, we're at the start of vanilla, so there are countless events going on around us far too many to get involved in really, but damn it I want to go and see if we can stab Ragnaros in the whatever, so I personally support this plan.

For this plan @FractiousDay
1. How does battle fury work out of combat? For example if there was a composure event the description of battle fury leads me to think we'd be more likely to pass, but trust yet verify.

Proto Plan: A Blade of Redemption
Background: Clan Leadership +3CP
Class Skills: Basic Leadership, Elemental Connection, Tactics
Misc Skills: Basic Persuasion
Other Class skill: Hunter

CP balance 0

This one is intended to be mirror again, kinda like how the last plan was, only to Grommash. Due to the very different upbringings and environs I imagine we're not at all like him in basic terms, having an elemental connection and less of a direct punch face focus. This guy would likely be seen as less "traditionally" orcy due to that, which ain't good, but that's kind of the point.

Grommash would later become the "ideal" or Orc as defined by the Old Horde, which is a rather toxic ideal, this one would be closer to the ideal of Thrall's horde that never really got time to root itself in the Orcish zeightgeist, more like Dranosh Saurfang, which I think is a very interesting aspect to pursue, especially with the Burning Blades current...lets say "internal clan politicking" :p

@FractiousDay
2. For this plan, is hunter about as close as one can get to warrior in terms of ranged classes, or would rogue trying to get throwing weapons work?
3. What kind of social mallus would getting tactics/leadership get?
4. And this is more a general thing, but are any skills exclusive to here? Elemental connection is the only one I think might be, but still checking.

Otherwise any comments/suggestions for either plan.
 
Clean our clothes? Fix damaged stuff, what is the shape of things we can use this for?
Certainly no combat capabilities. This would be what the children of Dalaran do for fun, making small flames of different colours, manipulating arcane energy to form simple shapes or tools, that sort of thing, minor 'magesight' as in looking at something and being able to tell its magical, minor telekinesis, making a small light to use in darkness.

In time you'd be able to become a proper arcanist including enchantment or intricate ward stuff that gives you that utility, but this gives you the first steps. See the last reply segment for more info on teh magic stuff and why to possibly choose it at this point.
munchkinying tendencies are leaking out.
At the risk of being hubristic, I'm not sure you'd be able to, but you're welcome to try.
. While it would be major obligations, the role of the clan (assuming we're in the horde) is hunting down enemy
Your role is what your clan chief, superior officer or parent or spiritual leader says it is. If you're a peon and people know it you can be ordered about by most people, even from other clans. Now you can ignore these (if you take the right traits next update) and if you're a peon that won't really have consequences because no one cares, but if you were higher up and decide to ignore orders you might be exiled or hunted.

Also though, if you manage to persuade the clan leadership that you should go off on your own projects you'll be able to do that and have the clan's support. Something like 'hey go off and discover more magic' or something. 'We should make an expedition over there and I should lead it'
it would be an interesting story
So this is the most important aspect for me as the writer, and I'd definitely encourage it. I'm trying to manufacture conflict through these choices so we should be fine, but yea go with interesting stuff not 'safe' stuff. While I probably should I don't think there'll be failure states to the quest, if you're defeated maybe you'd be sold into slavery or raised as a death knight or whatever so the quest can continue. We'll see, but I'm quite enjoying writing this atm.
traditional Azerothian Adventurer
I'm actually rather interested in this as a concept. What sort of society, what political and economic constitution produces essentially free but very powerful agents?
Well done for recognising these. Keep in mind your social strata will give certain bonuses. For example you could choose 'leadership' and get automatically upgraded tactics, leadership and so on, and also then use the CP from the 'leadership' origin to spend on other things.

Also keep in mind that magic is a big force multiplier, and the type you just won't get without some sort of magical ability. See the bottom of this post for more about magical options.
precision especially on a narrative level feels like it'd be very nice to have.
Blademasters canonically are able to mix their fury and precision, so that's one combination you could take.
wandering around, helping and learning where they can,
Just to emphasise, while you can wander you'll still have obligations ,or at least people will think you do. Imagine a young person today was discovered wandering about in a highly patriarchal country, the police or whoever might compel them to go back to their family. You can run off if you like but someone might catch you if you look suspicious, and keep in mind that if you're wounded on your own out somewhere then no one will know you're there or come to look for you. Kalimdor is particularly dangerous in this regard given centaur, quillboar, various wildlife etc.
1. How does battle fury work out of combat? For example if there was a composure event the description of battle fury leads me to think we'd be more likely to pass, but trust yet verify.
Correct. All orcs are afflicted (though social and fel related reasons) by an inclination to rage, you've learned to control it, you may one day learn to properly wield it.
2. For this plan, is hunter about as close as one can get to warrior in terms of ranged classes, or would rogue trying to get throwing weapons work?
3. What kind of social mallus would getting tactics/leadership get?
4. And this is more a general thing, but are any skills exclusive to here? Elemental connection is the only one I think might be, but still checking.
In order, hunter is indeed the ranged class best here, but you could also just buy a gun and have someone teach you to use it at a later date. You don't need to be competent in all areas, you can decide if you want that actually ranged combat isn't of that great an importance. Multi-classing into hunter is likely to give you something like tracking skills, woodcraft as well as the obvious option of basic proficiency with a ranged weapon

Not sure what you mean about the mallus? If you mean bonus then yes that would have a moderate bonus, especially to things similar to military stuff which is what the skills are focused toward. You'd be able to consider how to plan an 'attack' if it was a speech etc.

In regards to exclusivity, the only ones would really be Elementalism and Demonic Magic, and for at least the first dabbling the Elements wouldn't mind much. Blademasters aren't shaman, and if you really want to you could research a way of using both elemental magic and demonic at the same time (probably by enslaving the former with the later).

All of these skills can be learnt at a later date (provided you have the magic potential we're rolling for next update, which itself can be enhanced though various means etc). At the moment you should consider what you'll find of greatest utility now. If you really want to start travelling you'd probably need riding so you can get about faster, comparably if you want to just learn it on the side later as a common skill there'll be plenty of teachers about. If you want to jump immediately into campaigning you could pick something like Conditioning, but equally you can just train this skill over time.

Picking one of the magics now will be extremely advantageous because you'll be going back home to the Clan who are big on that sort of thing and will invest in you, knowing that you'll fight for them in future.
 
Picking one of the magics now will be extremely advantageous because you'll be going back home to the Clan who are big on that sort of thing and will invest in you, knowing that you'll fight for them in future.
Well, hello thar.

So this is my "bringing something new" plan.

It's a bit late to go for a crafter focus, and I still want to adhere to the warrior + blademaster clan idea, but I think the exploration of trying to find out new things and actually being supported by that by your social peers, at least your closet ones ('clan') is very novel. I'm always reading stories where the reaction to it "no! be tradition!" and I rather want to see something different - I expect wider orkish society will be against us fetching some Arcane magic stuff, but not those closest to us.


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The idea of these is that our character is still a warrior, but understands the use of tools - even the ability to make a small light at will (if one is not working alongside to a fire elemental) is clearly useful - and our boi ain't gonna be the super best warrior, but getting some of this understanding for his clan

Also, "enchantments" - even if one can not cast any arcane magics, simple enchantments might be a thing crafters could might make for people to use. The goal isn't to be the person who can do these things, but to go into the dangerous world and bring back some of the foundational ability to begin with, teach that small amount to those better suited to arcane magic, and then go out again, something something diplomacy? Idk.
 
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actually being supported by that by your social peers, at least your closet ones ('clan') is very novel. I'm always reading stories where the reaction to it "no! be tradition!"
I think this is because broadly in fantasy literature we map our essentially capitalist social structures onto medieval or in this case primitive tribal social structures. Tribal societies of this sort are at least somewhat communist,that is to say resources are shared by the community by a system of gift giving, hospitality and family units sharing resources.Now for the Orcs they'll have had those same systems, but they'll be a bit different depending on different things, but essentially yes this means that if you strengthen the clan you'll be supported. See here for a good scene in an otherwise bad film which shows this sort of thing off

The orcs respect strength above all else, and most of them quite happily jettisoned various traditions to embrace demonic magic, such as shamans becoming warlocks en mass.
our boi ain't gonna be the super best warrior, but getting some of this understanding for his clan
Think about what that understanding gets you. If you're no good at combat maybe the clan would consider this shameful and make sure you're nice and trained up before you go out to make sure you don't bring dishonour on everyone.
 
[X] Wandering Peon
-[X] Peons (-1 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Basic Scholarship
-[X] Basic Persuasion

So basically peon that wants to go on adventure to see the world and meet other people. He wasn't given more than basic training but he has very good instincts. Scholarship helps our orc to understand what is going on, and persuasion seems pretty useful since it can help in getting teachers, quests etc.
 
At the risk of being hubristic, I'm not sure you'd be able to, but you're welcome to try.
Oh no not like that, I mean I have a tendency to try and munchkin even when I know I can't.

If you had draw backs that'd be another matter.

While I probably should I don't think there'll be failure states to the quest, if you're defeated maybe you'd be sold into slavery or raised as a death knight or whatever so the quest can continue. We'll see, but I'm quite enjoying writing this atm.
Yeah, I was wondering if that was a possibility. Many of the Death Knights were adventurers/allies of the argent dawn that ended up getting you know...killed.

Cool cool.

I'm actually rather interested in this as a concept. What sort of society, what political and economic constitution produces essentially free but very powerful agents?
Yeah, I've seen that come up a fair amount in other media like Log Horizon and how to manage Adventurers.

For me though I want to know what is the impact of having Adventurers who actually you know...mean something? Cause in WoW itself, its never a specific group defeated whatever its always nebulous Champions of X or Adventurers defeated Y usually with the help of Z...but you know, cause its an MMO we don't get opinions and the like.

Which is something this quest could do very well, its could take what is essentially an unbound agent (an adventurer which is the avatar for a human playing a video game) and give them ties and stuff and the capacity to voice their views beyond staring gormlessly at a wall. Like if we go by the games there's around 25 other assorted mooks who helped defeat the Lich King, yet its an understandable, but still frustrating aspect of game/lore incompatibility that when tensions began to flare within the Horde and Alliance due to Grommash vs Cairne and the whole Dark Iron take over, the influence of what should be major characters isn't there at all.

I know its a limitation of you know mediums, but its still the kinda thing that I like to think and get annoyed about :D

Keep in mind your social strata will give certain bonuses. For example you could choose 'leadership' and get automatically upgraded tactics, leadership and so on, and also then use the CP from the 'leadership' origin to spend on other things.
This is true, but I kinda wanted to go all in on it because it felt like it told a better story. + it is just another frustration for me in universe that there ain't really many good tacticians on either side. Claimed to be yes, in practise no.

Also want soma dat good Charisma.

You can run off if you like but someone might catch you if you look suspicious, and keep in mind that if you're wounded on your own out somewhere then no one will know you're there or come to look for you. Kalimdor is particularly dangerous in this regard given centaur, quillboar, various wildlife etc.
Yeah, I knew that'd be the thing, but I also want that too.

I guess I like my dichotomies a bit too much, but the plans are rather diametrically opposed, for a reason. One's meant to get us nestled within Orcish society and politics, the other's meant to be freeish and if not a rejection of such things at least a breakaway. I know that getting away from obligations even if they're not bound in legalise or blood is impossible, but that's kind of the point it creates its own conflict anyway. Just now instead of between clans, interclan loyalties and all that its between the character's desire to not be bound by those expectations and those things trying to suck them back in.

Not sure what you mean about the mallus? If you mean bonus then yes that would have a moderate bonus, especially to things similar to military stuff which is what the skills are focused toward. You'd be able to consider how to plan an 'attack' if it was a speech etc.

In regards to exclusivity, the only ones would really be Elementalism and Demonic Magic, and for at least the first dabbling the Elements wouldn't mind much. Blademasters aren't shaman, and if you really want to you could research a way of using both elemental magic and demonic at the same time (probably by enslaving the former with the later).

All of these skills can be learnt at a later date (provided you have the magic potential we're rolling for next update, which itself can be enhanced though various means etc). At the moment you should consider what you'll find of greatest utility now. If you really want to start travelling you'd probably need riding so you can get about faster, comparably if you want to just learn it on the side later as a common skill there'll be plenty of teachers about. If you want to jump immediately into campaigning you could pick something like Conditioning, but equally you can just train this skill over time.

Picking one of the magics now will be extremely advantageous because you'll be going back home to the Clan who are big on that sort of thing and will invest in you, knowing that you'll fight for them in future.
mmm it maybe because of Grommash/the warsong, but I just remember finally getting to Wrath content, arriving at the Warsong Hold and running in on that scripted argument between him and Varrosh, where he's getting angry at Varrosh saying be patient use your head. And while Garrosh does prove that yes he does know "tactics" (It has been a while, but probably not great ones) and the general warrior culture in general has given me the impression that many orks (or at least some clans) would find that side of war disdaineful.

mmmm thanks for tellin me that.

Three things
1. What's your policy on omakes. Which I acknowledge right now is a very loaded question, but one I hope you're ok with me asking.
2. What's the effect of CP debt?
3. Just slight concern about rolling for performance etc. in the trials and the like. mmm...I suppose its a personality thing I'm perfectly willing to be screwed over by things I've chosen, but I hate it when it happens because of events beyond my control. To give an example choosing to do a thing, then rolling badly doesn't bother me, choosing a thing and it just being a bad result to be expected, but if I can't choose it I guess it just sets my paranoia senses a tingling.

@BeepSmile I'm currently liking your plans, although since its just the way I am I'm much more in favour of getting personal power for our character (I'll admit I do like the power fantasy of it all). However, that is kinda rewarded in orcish society and shouldn't preclude also doing things like being an adventurer and a blade master.

There's an argument to be made that being strong enough to delve into the big ol fire mountain is excellent for our mission, since if we're looking for knowledge there's elemental lords of flame below, industrialist dwarfs in the middle and mr I'm a fantastic magic magician with a giant ass library at top.
 
mmm it maybe because of Grommash/the warsong, but I just remember finally getting to Wrath content, arriving at the Warsong Hold and running in on that scripted argument between him and Varrosh, where he's getting angry at Varrosh saying be patient use your head. And while Garrosh does prove that yes he does know "tactics" (It has been a while, but probably not great ones) and the general warrior culture in general has given me the impression that many orks (or at least some clans) would find that side of war disdaineful.
I think that specific conversation is very particular to the individuals involved. On Draenor some clans specialised on their own, but others were commanded to specialise by Blackhand when he became the first Warchief and turned the Horde into a proper army rather than a tribal conglomeration. The Warsong, already being inclined toward cavalry became the raiders while the Blackrocks became the heavy infantry because they were techy.

Thrall isn't obeyed all the time by his warriors, they raid Alliance caravans and stuff because that's their way of getting glory and because Thrall doesn't really provide an outlet for it. If you similarly won a battle through exceptional manoeuvring which forced the enemy to concede then you'd start to lose the support of your warriors. Similarly, while you might acquire wealth through trade or industry for example, that wealth HAS to be used for warfare. You wouldn't be able to say 'oh well look how glorious we are because were rich'.

Orcs primarily favour strength. That can take a few forms, such as strength-as-victory in battle, or strength-as-magic, but the essential culture is one of martial combat, stealth, ranged and magic have their place and sometimes are practiced, but they're addons, not the main thing. Having said that as well though you can look at the Iron Horde who adopted a lot of industrial stuff because it allowed them to win, even if it provided less prestige from direct combat etc, so cultures can change over time. In WoD the Burning Blade became enchanters who helped the Blackrock orcs make weapons, so presumably they regarded that as sufficiently honourable to be a good occupation.
1. What's your policy on omakes. Which I acknowledge right now is a very loaded question, but one I hope you're ok with me asking.
2. What's the effect of CP debt?
3. Just slight concern about rolling for performance etc. in the trials and the like. mmm...I suppose its a personality thing I'm perfectly willing to be screwed over by things I've chosen, but I hate it when it happens because of events beyond my control. To give an example choosing to do a thing, then rolling badly doesn't bother me, choosing a thing and it just being a bad result to be expected, but if I can't choose it I guess it just sets my paranoia senses a tingling.
1. yea sure, I'm considering integrating an orc druid or a moknathal shaman in either the quest specifically or in omakes as a sort of parallel universe thing. I'm inclined to reward such things to encourage audience participation, so we'll see how that might be done.
2. So you're on your way toward Razor Hill, if you were in massive CP debt I'd probably punish it with being captured by someone and kidnapped for some reason, eg, Raz Frostwhisper feels like trying to make some DKs for his own so you get carted off to Razorfen. If its only moderate debt then it would be relatively minor things, like having to perform a few clan duties before you're allowed to go off on your own. I've designed the mechanic to force you into obligations, not to actually punish you as questers.
3. Mechanically its quite interesting. I'd be inclined to have a weighted roll. For example, if you rolled for 'elemental connection' then Fire and Air would be weighted, while Life would be lightened. Therefore you'd be more likely to get Fire and Air because those are the Blademaster elements whereas Life is seldom used by Shaman. Also you'd be able to change a lot of these through the quest, for example say you get a low physical ability score, well that might make you inclined to seek out enhancements such as fel, arcane or alchemical stuff, therefore creating more conflict.
 
2. So you're on your way toward Razor Hill, if you were in massive CP debt I'd probably punish it with being captured by someone and kidnapped for some reason, eg, Raz Frostwhisper feels like trying to make some DKs for his own so you get carted off to Razorfen. If its only moderate debt then it would be relatively minor things, like having to perform a few clan duties before you're allowed to go off on your own. I've designed the mechanic to force you into obligations, not to actually punish you as questers.
OHHH KAY.

That's cool, ok now I'm actually far more enthusiastic to go into CP debt because I like having stuff to do from the start. Of course it depends on the kind of play style we're going for etc.

1. If you're willing are there specific or general bounds for CP debt? Say using the example above of massive, moderate etc. where would you say we start to get into those?

mmm...I'm hoping to not come across as flippant, but things like getting carted off sound like a fun way to start the legend of our dude, but I know your intent is that it won't be you know simple and easy, I want to emphasize I realise that.

Like translating mechanics which is a rough, but hopefully somewhat indicative measurement, cause we'd be what level 5-6ish and the Razor Fen is level 40something? I'm very understanding that its not a good thing, but again story-wise I do like getting thrown in the deep end. I can't write that myself obviously, I'm not a very good writer and I screw the pacing up completely, but I think you can especially if you've already considered it.

Also you'd be able to change a lot of these through the quest, for example say you get a low physical ability score, well that might make you inclined to seek out enhancements such as fel, arcane or alchemical stuff, therefore creating more conflict.
mmm...I do get what you mean, still just rankles. It's basically that there's a reason my friends prefer point buy to rolling for stats in DnD etc. because it feels like those conflicts can exist without needing to make it dependent on a roll...

mmm I dunno tis your system.

@BeepSmile Anyway with that in mind still considering my own stuff and with CP debt explained a bit any possible alterations to your plans you might consider? IMO I'm mostly interested in getting battle fury, cause getting control over the emotions is good.

Also @FractiousDay ...you ahh thread marked
2 hours now, thanks for the reminder.

Yes that's as designed. You can choose to be a powerhouse with various abilities etc, but you will then be forced to take on obligations. I realise this is sort of backwards but I realised after the first character creation that I needed some way to force you to take on obligations which then create conflict in the story and to explore the theme of agency. If Reverse Image had been picked the primary conflict would come from interactions with the elements due to the Shaman choice, whereas the Mok'Nathal Clan choice would mean that you'd be friendly with the Frostwolves and Warsong because of Rexxar's history, and that you wouldn't have any clan obligations at all because you're not really a clan. I probably would have had people trying to use your name and unusual nature to promote their own causes 'I've got a half orc warrior arent they exotic' etc, but here I'm trying to force you to choose options that will create these chains of obligation.

As for CP, I'll keep track of CP earned and lost in total. For example, you've got 1 now, if you pick 'Leadership' you'll have 4 total. If you then pick an extra class and misc skill you'll be back to 0.

There will be 1 (?) more character creation post after this, going into the specifics (eg if you pick elemental affinity I'll roll for your element and spell etc) as well as picking traits and a generalised segment to spend any remaining CP or to take on additional obligations if you're already in CP debt. I realise the inclination to have all of it at once but this being the first quest I've written I sort of need time to think about it :D

As for 'no reason not to go for high options', beware of obligations. You're in the Burning Blade. Half your Clan are demon worshippers and canonically your 'loyal' clan head is also one. If you turn out to be his heir you'll have plenty of conflicts.
This instead of

Winning vote

[X] Plan: Wandering Blademaster
- [X] Grok'mash
By authorial fiat I'm modifying the name slightly to better reflect orcish naming customs. I'll say now that I wouldn't mind if you wanted to change it as it seems somewhat abrupt (which tbh lots of Orc names are). It's very close to 'Grommash' for example which could mechanically give you diplo bonuses to Warsong interactions. @SpaceSloth it was your idea so you have right of refusal on this.
- [X] Male
You are superior physically to most sentient races on Azeroth. All other things being equal your strength and mass will allow you to win against any lesser foe and you'll be more able to face large foes such as Vrykul with greater chances of success than if you were smaller. In general you have more significant martial obligations than if you were female, such as being expected to fight in battle if called on.
- [X] Burning Blade
Your clan is a complex one. On Draenor yours were the finest swordsmen in the world, using magic and skill to fell even the largest of foes, and using fel energy to enhance your abilities. On Azeroth your clan is split, scattered and broken by the demonic invasion of the Third War many of your clan still serve the Burning Legion, attempting to infiltrate the Horde and bathe the world in green fire once again. Others however are loyal and attempt to root out corruption and infiltrators. Which side to you fall on?
- [X] Warrior
It can be said that all Orcs are warriors really. Whether with axe or spear you can stand in a shield wall or duel many opponents and win. Similarly this class makes excellent use of your size and strength. Nevertheless, you're vulnerable to essentially everything you're not such as magic and ranged warfare, and it can be difficulty to find equipment given technological underdevelopment of the Orcs.

This class is modified by your clan and the specific martial traditions of the Burning Blade. You aren't a Blademaster yet, but you can become one and you have some idea of the basics.

- [X] For Azeroth

You've observed that regardless of who's fighting, everyone seems to lose. There are great threats to Azeroth and you plan to stand against them, regardless of who you have to fight with, whether Orcs or otherwise.

This motivation is modified by your clan and you are particularly aware of the threat of the Burning Legion, while being less aware of things like the Twilight's Hammer.

Slight changes to Character Creation System

Now we move onto the next part of the character creation. Before we proceed I'd like to change the options slightly. While ordinarily more advantageous choices would cost some sort of character points (CP), because the whole point of this quest is to explore agency, instead more advantageous choices will provide these points, while choices which give agency will cost points. For example in the last update you chose 'Burning Blade' for your clan, this will retroactively be a neutral CP cost, because while the Burning Blade clan will provide advantages, you'll also be expected to fulfil certain duties. This would likely be the same as if you'd chosen something like Shattered Hand.

As above, greater obligations = +CPs, greater agency = -CPs. I'd say to aim for CP neutrality, but if you have leftover CP credit or debt then events providing greater agency or obligations will materialise. You can also choose to spend CPs on useful items like better gear instead of greater agency. Let me know if this is unclear, I'm going to award you 1 CP to spend in the this update, and CP will be carried over and tallied up into debt or credit at the end of the character creation.

In the next update we're going to be rolling for a couple of things such as your performance in the Valley of Trials, as well as your physical, magical and spiritual potential. You can use CP (and potentially go into debt) to reroll these, or spend it on various traits.



Background
You are Grok'mash, orc warrior of the Burning Blade Clan, and after proving yourself in the Valley of Trials you're returning to Clan and Home.

Who waits for you there? Who were your parents?

This section allows you to choose your social rank. Orcs can increase their social rank, usually though martial prowess or other displays of 'strength' which can also include magic or crafting. Due to the cultural and environmental pressures of the Orcs I'm assuming that higher status parents are likely to produce stronger and healthier offspring. You'll be able to enhance yourself in various ways though choices, which like everything will have consequences.

[ ] Peons (-1 CP)

Your parents were of the lowest rank in Orcish society, manual labourers barely better than slaves. You may have inherited your parents weakness, or whatever else had them assigned at birth to this strata of society. The life of a peon is a hard one, and any warriors who know about your birth will scorn you for it, but you hardly intend to advertise it. A notable example of a peon is Gul'dan, who was born physically weaker and exiled from his clan, but who became one of the most influential and powerful orcs in history due to his skill as a warlock. This option gives you the least obligations but also provides no benefits.

[ ] Low-ranked (-2 CP)

Your parents were low ranked warriors like grunts or hunters. The largest body of a clan is usually made up of such individuals, and with this option you'll gain minor bonuses to combat, while not having any major obligations any other member of the Clan wouldn't also have. This options provides the greatest agency and minor obligations.

[ ] Crafters (-1 CP)

Crafters are an intermediate category representing the collective craftspeople of the Clan. These range from basic trades like potters to more prestigious tradespeople like blacksmiths and alchemists. You've learned some of your parents trade through observation so have the beginnings of a marketable skill, but also may be expected to take up your parents work to serve the Clan in future.

[ ] High-ranked (+2 CP)

You originate among the higher ranks of the Clan such as higher-ranked warriors like raid leaders. You gain additional martial competency as well as minor increases to tactics and leadership. You will be expected to fight for the Clan and may be hunted down and brought back to the Clan if you decide to shirk your responsibilities.

[ ] Leadership (+3 CP)

You are directly related to the Burning Blade Clan's leadership. You receive significant advantages in skill increases and the potential to receive various boons such as equipment from your family. You have explicit responsibilities to fulfil.

Once you choose one of these the next update will make two rolls for the status and history of your family. If you chose 'Leadership' a high roll in both might result in you being the Clan heir, whereas a low roll might result in you being a cousin of the Clan Shaman.

Class abilities

You've chosen 'Burning Blade' and 'Warrior' as parts of your origin. These combine due to the martial traditions of your people and you have begun the path of the Blademaster, legendary orc warriors of the Burning Blade clan well known for their mastery of weaponry. The harsh world of Draenor produced many martial traditions, from the shadow-war of the Bleeding Hollow to the alchemically-induced fanaticism of the Bonechewer Clan. Unlike Warsong raiders or ironclad Blackrocks your people favour a combination of agility and power, using swords and polearms rather than the usual axes of the Orcs. This has given Blademasters a significant measure of prestige due to their unusual and effective fighting style, combining martial skill with magical enhancement.

Blademasters use a combination of elements in a similar manner to Shaman, but in a far more limited way. With the Spirit of Air Blademasters can make themselves almost invisible, passing through solid objects or swinging their blades faster than the eye can see, while the Spirit of Fire gives your Clan their famous name. Some Blademasters on Draenor have adopted the Ogre magic, combining different elements in the same way Arcanists do, while more recently many Blademasters have turned to the Fel after drinking demonblood and being abandoned by the elements.

While in the Old Horde the Burning Blade were mainly known as a warrior clan, in Thrall's Horde your clan is sundered. More than half the clan still serves the Burning Legion, plotting the Horde's downfall, while the remaining Blademasters who've stayed loyal have sworn oaths to free their people from demonic corruption, some working from the shadows to achieve this.

Because of your choice you're effectively multi-classing between the melee, magic and stealth related arts. As such, at this point you have no option to choose a more advanced skill because you're already splitting your focus over several areas.

Choose 2 Class Skills and 1 Miscellaneous Skill.

Alternatively, you may choose to multi-class further by exchanging 1 Class Skill for a randomly chosen Miscellaneous Skill from another Class. To make this clear, either you choose:

Burning Blade Warrior Skills
2 Class Skills
1 Misc Skill


OR

Burning Blade Warrior Skills
1 Class Skill
1 Misc Skill

Other Class Skill
1 Misc Skill


As an example, you're lacking in non-combat utility and ranged combat. If you choose a multiclass skill which is closer to your regular class you'll get a better 'random' skill.

If you want, you can take up to 1 additional Class and 1 additional Misc skill at a cost of 2CP each.

Skill Choices

In general you'll advanced far faster with proper trainers. You've been sent to the Valley of Trials for basic training, meaning mainly how to swing your weapon as well as some basic survival skills. Because you've picked Warrior as a class this basic weapon training has been upgraded.

You're free to ask about any of the specifics of these before you choose them. Whenever the skill mentions randomly assigning an ability a roll will be involved.

I don't want to concentrate massively on the skills as I find they tend to be forgotten over time. However you may find it necessary to quantify them. I'm going to make a basic system for this, but given its my first quest I might change it later, suggestions welcome.

Due to your origins you gain: Weapon Competency, Basic Tactics, Basic Survivalist, Basic Physical Conditioning, Basic Demonslaying.

Class Skills available

[ ] Advanced Weapon Competency

Your Clan were always known for their skill with weapons and you're no exception.

[ ] Physical Conditioning

You're no longer a recruit, at least not in body and you can run, march and fight as long as other professional soldiers.

[ ] Battlesight

Farseers see far, you can see near. Sometimes in battle you'll get vague premonitions, flashes of what's about to happen.

[ ] Tactics

You are a reasonable tactician and can analyse and plan most tactical situations.

[ ] Basic Leadership

You comprehend the basics of leadership, including a loud voice and confident manner in command.

[ ] Elemental Connection

You already have a connection with one of the elements and are able to bargain for minor things. You'll be able to strengthen this connection as you go on. AT LEAST 1 ELEMENTAL ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, AFFINITY RANDOMLY ASSIGNED NEXT UPDATE IF CHOSEN.

[ ] Battle Fury

While many Orcs embrace the primal instincts of your forebears, you've learned to control this instinct better than most and are able to harness it in battle.

[ ] Precision

Your strikes are more precise than most, enabling you to target the weaker points of foes with your blade.

[ ] Stealth

You comprehend the basics of stealthy action including movement and attack, particularly important given your size and weight as an Orc.

[ ] Basic Demonic Magic

You know some of the basics of Fel magic, such as layering Fel over you as armour or using the shadows to harm your enemies. AT LEAST 1 RANDOM ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, VERY MINOR RISK OF CORRUPTION DEPENDING ON USAGE.


Miscellaneous Skills available

[ ] Basic Riding

You are a reasonably good rider, specifically of the worgs Orcs use in Durotar, and are able to fight from the saddle too, thought not well. Mount not included.

[ ] Survivalist

While you already knew how to handle yourself, including the very basics of survival in the lands of Durotar you've now become a more competent survivalist and could keep yourself alive in most environments.

[ ] Basic Scholarship

While the Orcs aren't a scholarly people, you've picked up some basics of the histories and social life of many peoples.

[ ] Crafting: Basic (Write in)

You've picked up some of the basics of this trade.

[ ] Basic Persuasion

There are many ways to persuade others to assist you and you at least know about most of them. As an Orc you can always try and intimidate anyone smaller than you, but you've also learned to understand the other person's perspective and target your persuasion better.

[ ] Basic Arcane Magic

You've developed an affinity for Arcane Magic. Currently this isn't anything you could use in combat, but with more learning perhaps it could be? For the moment you're able to make minor enchantments, or use certain cantrips.



2 Hour moratorium on voting for discussion!
This as I assume you intended.
 
Explanation of CP and debt consequences
1. If you're willing are there specific or general bounds for CP debt? Say using the example above of massive, moderate etc. where would you say we start to get into those?

mmm...I'm hoping to not come across as flippant, but things like getting carted off sound like a fun way to start the legend of our dude, but I know your intent is that it won't be you know simple and easy, I want to emphasize I realise that.

Like translating mechanics which is a rough, but hopefully somewhat indicative measurement, cause we'd be what level 5-6ish and the Razor Fen is level 40something? I'm very understanding that its not a good thing, but again story-wise I do like getting thrown in the deep end. I can't write that myself obviously, I'm not a very good writer and I screw the pacing up completely, but I think you can especially if you've already considered it.
So as a maximum you could have gone 6 points into debt in this update, not counting your bonus point. If I 'd implemented this system from the start and you'd chosen something like Mok'Nathal you'd be another 2 points into debt due to the agency advantages of that choice. So lets say you were theoretically 8 points into debt at this point. Let's also say you took 'Warlock' which associated lack of responsibilities but pretty good power curve, that's another 3CP into debt perhaps for 11CP debt.

In the next update you'll be able to chose traits and some bonus stuff like gear, a pet, a mount, that sort of thing. Traits will be neither entirely beneficial or detrimental. For example you're already socialised to be brave, reasonably dutiful, traditional, spiritual and so on. If you chose 'traditional' again you'd become 'very traditional' then you'd oppose new things, promote revanchist or atavist thinking, and you'd be obliged to agree to anything an elder asked you or uphold anything that was some ancient pact etc. If you chose 'Brave' you'd become incredibly brave, again increasing obligations because you'd have to attack anything that threatened you even if it was very strong. These traits would aware CP.

Comparably there would be a load of traits which would cost CP, these might include 'curious', 'deceptive', 'diplomatic' or anything which gives you more agency. Curious would allow thinking outside the box, diplomatic would allow for more diplomatic options. These would also have mechanical effects just as the others would, eg brave giving bonuses against terror-inducing things.

So lets say you take 3 traits at 2CP each, for a total of 17CP debt. Lets then say you also took a load of bonuses like 'mount', 'pet' and 'warlock gear', perhaps at 2CP each. Then maybe you want to reroll 'spiritual potential' so you don't get warlock corruption anytime soon, and you also want to reroll 'magical potential' at a point each. You'd then be at 25CP debt in total. I've forgotten the class thing somewhere there but let's move on.

I don't intend to deliberately punish munchkining, feel free if there's an interesting plan like the 'Go out and learn' one, but I do intend there to be consequences for hubris. The purpose of this system, which I'll admit is just something I thought up rather than a regular questing system, is to ensure you take on obligations so that we can actually explore the themes of the quest. If you're entirely self-reliant because you've got all the resources etc then that's deliberately avoiding the purpose of the quest. Munchkin the character and the power, but try to engage with the impetus of the quest. CP debt and possible consequences should prevent this, but yea just to note it.

As for consequences, again because I've just designed this system recently they'd be fairly arbitrary. Lets say in debt terms, 5CP would be mandatory training or duties for either clan or Horde. 10 CP would be similar, but might include anti-Azeroth stuff like helping out the legiony part of the Burning Blade. 15CP would start to get into mind controlly areas, like the clan deciding they'd try that old experiment of pumping children full of fel energy or making you drink some demon blood to see if they can make a supersoldier, while more than 20CP would get into the sillier stuff like the Scourge or Twilight's Hammer or similar, maybe even Kul Tiras jumping out from behind a bush and kidnapping you, resulting in a significant diversion and difficulty getting any significant training at all.

because it feels like those conflicts can exist without needing to make it dependent on a roll...

mmm I dunno tis your system.
I'm quite happy to take feedback on it, its the first quest I've run and I realise I've decided to run it in a weird way. I did struggle a bit in conceptualising how dice rolls actually worked. Eg, say there's a guard and you want to be let in, he's inclined not to let you in anyway, so should only a very high roll let you in, or should it automatically be a failure unless you've got a good reason, that sort of thing. For the purposes of this area specifically sometimes there'll be background rolls that decide whether, for example, the Quillboar happen across your group and attack you. You'd have no agency in that anyway, so it may as well be left to the dice. Having said that I'm also a decent writer so I don't really 'need' such a roll at that point. On the other hand I don't want to be accused of making things arbitrarily difficult for you because I keep throwing things at you. In any case I suppose I'll decide as I progress.

Oh and thanks for pointing the threadmark thing out
 
[x] Path of the Elemental Blade
-[x] Low-ranked (-2 CP)
-[x] Battle Fury
-[x] Stealth
-[x] Basic Scholarship
-[x] Elemental Connection
-[x] Precision

[x] Low-ranked (-2 CP)

Your parents were low ranked warriors like grunts or hunters. The largest body of a clan is usually made up of such individuals, and with this option you'll gain minor bonuses to combat, while not having any major obligations any other member of the Clan wouldn't also have. This options provides the greatest agency and minor obligations.

First, we'd be at -1CP, but the agency and freedom it gives us should provide a lot of flexibility for the character in the future.

[x] Battle Fury

While many Orcs embrace the primal instincts of your forebears, you've learned to control this instinct better than most and are able to harness it in battle.

As a blademaster, I feel it's narratively appropriate that the character also have a handle on their more savage and hotheaded aspects of orcish nature, especially, as I hope, that we're on the loyalist side. Say that we've achieved a sort of zen state where we can focus our aggression in a calculated and meaningful waay.

[x] Stealth

You comprehend the basics of stealthy action including movement and attack, particularly important given your size and weight as an Orc.

So we can be both samurai and ninja. And because it's fun sneaking up on our enemies in the dark.

[x] Basic Scholarship

While the Orcs aren't a scholarly people, you've picked up some basics of the histories and social life of many peoples.

This trait appeals to me because while we're basically this walking tornado of blades and a wall of muscle, I think intellect and knowledge of both Draenor and Azeroth would do a lot of good in balancing out our outlook, temper our attitude, and give us a more realistic expectation of what to expect in our travels.

For the cost of another 2 CP let's take

[x] Elemental Connection

You already have a connection with one of the elements and are able to bargain for minor things. You'll be able to strengthen this connection as you go on. AT LEAST 1 ELEMENTAL ABILITY WILL BE ASSIGNED, AFFINITY RANDOMLY ASSIGNED NEXT UPDATE IF CHOSEN.

So we'd be -3 CP points in Debt for this in addition to being Low Ranked, but it's to fill the shamanistic itch, and having some elemental powers to combo with our blade skills would probably be very interesting.

[x] Basic Persuasion

There are many ways to persuade others to assist you and you at least know about most of them. As an Orc you can always try and intimidate anyone smaller than you, but you've also learned to understand the other person's perspective and target your persuasion better.

With this trait, we should be able to avoid getting into unnecessary fights. I think it helps round out the character that he knows when to get into a fight and when not to and how to diffuse situations and steer things away from violence. With this, we'd be at -5CP after Low Ranked and Elemental Connection.

So we're just 1CP away from the maximum amount of debt. What do you think, @FractiousDay
 
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Some things jump out at me.

The higher class starting options cost CP, either 2 or 3, and they give influence and the ability to call upon support to realise your desires if you can frame them in terms of "for the clan/orcs/horde" That seems fair enough.

But the +2 CP option also gives:
You gain additional martial competency as well as minor increases to tactics and leadership

And the bolded part of that reads to me like the first class skill, and the 'minor increase' as half a skill each, and that adds up to 4 CP.

It looks like we are paying 2 CP for: extra pull within our socicity + 4 CP worth of additional skill options.

If that is correct, it is optimal from an abstract mechanics perspective to take one of the two more expensive backgrounds.
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Or ...are the background option's higher agency costs written in their description in addition to the numbers we see beside their names?

(Edit: I really worry I have misunderstood your system)
(Edit edit: hapcelion's plan and reasoning has made me think this more-so)
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@Doomed Wombat As it stands, with the further information we're given by the QM i'm ok with going into more debt here, though this means we're less likely to get spiffy gear at the start. Also, I'm dropping the "High-Ranked" because if we ever go out a-journeying, we'll want people who can do stuff like hunt and such to be part of our troupe and being born high ranked is likely to make that easier.

I'm solidly meh on the trait, but like... not opposed to it in anyway, so in the words of the philosopher we need in [year of our lord] "eat my shorts" - ah, I mean "I don't see why not".

[X] Plan: Go out and explore, my son. Bring us the teachings of distant places.
-[X] High-ranked (+2 CP)
-[X] Battlesight
-[X] Battle Fury
-[X] Elemental Connection
-[X] Basic Arcane Magic
 
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GAHHHHH!

As above, greater obligations = +CPs, greater agency = -CPs. I'd say to aim for CP neutrality, but if you have leftover CP credit or debt then events providing greater agency or obligations will materialise. You can also choose to spend CPs on useful items like better gear instead of greater agency. Let me know if this is unclear, I'm going to award you 1 CP to spend in the this update, and CP will be carried over and tallied up into debt or credit at the end of the character creation.

TAKE OPTIONS THAT GIVE -CP TO GAIN AGENCY
ALTERNATIVELY YOU SPEND CP ON THINGS LIKE GEAR INSTEAD OF GAINING AGENCY

HAVING NEGATIVE CP MEANS MORE AGENCY
SPEND THE NEGATIVE! What? Is that it!?! Have I made a mistake elsewhere?!

I... that was awful. I don't care if I'm wrong, I have reached a place of such dunk + confusion that I a washing my hands of trying to understand this for this vote. I've made a list of options and put little X's beside them, now I'm gonna go and curl up for a while.
 
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