Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

@FractiousDay how bad is Kul Tiras and the Scarlet's position?
So they're two sides of the Lich King's strategy to restore his position in Lordaeron. several years ago the Scarlets were passive, there was advancing Scourge bases in Lordaeron and pushing into other areas like Zul Aman and Quel'thalas again, and they could chill and build up and experiment etc.

Now though basically with the Scarlet resurgence, the Scourge was in danger of getting eliminated from the continent so the Lich King has thrown all his available forces at Lordaeron. He's got the Vrykul awakened early and attacking in preparation for a sea invasion, while he's also ordered all his hidden projects in Lordaeorn to be activated and set against the Crusade.

However, the Crusade has more forces on their side this time, so Dathrohan and Westwind have been able to get some of the Kul Tirans on side for example.

So essentially the war is just in a higher and more intense state at the moment.

Of the two, Kul Tiras is probably doing worse. Territory in Lordaeron can be retaken, but it's much more difficult to quickly produce new ships.
 
So they're two sides of the Lich King's strategy to restore his position in Lordaeron. several years ago the Scarlets were passive, there was advancing Scourge bases in Lordaeron and pushing into other areas like Zul Aman and Quel'thalas again, and they could chill and build up and experiment etc.

Now though basically with the Scarlet resurgence, the Scourge was in danger of getting eliminated from the continent so the Lich King has thrown all his available forces at Lordaeron. He's got the Vrykul awakened early and attacking in preparation for a sea invasion, while he's also ordered all his hidden projects in Lordaeorn to be activated and set against the Crusade.

However, the Crusade has more forces on their side this time, so Dathrohan and Westwind have been able to get some of the Kul Tirans on side for example.

So essentially the war is just in a higher and more intense state at the moment.

Of the two, Kul Tiras is probably doing worse. Territory in Lordaeron can be retaken, but it's much more difficult to quickly produce new ships.
I was mulling whether two merc missions are necessary to stabilize their fronts so then Grok needs to draft and mobilise more numbers to meet that demand.

Though if Kul Tiras can be established then could they move on to helping out the Scarlets?
 
See your problem is expecting Kul Tirans to help. Kul Tirans exist for much the same reason as the burning legion, to make everything worse.
 
Though if Kul Tiras can be established then could they move on to helping out the Scarlets?
It depends what you'd want them to do. You're not coordinating the war effort. Obviously, Dathrohan would want them to be involved sure. The main problem would be that they've got colonial troops spread about like in Theramore or Northwatch so they wouldn't be making any large scale deployments onto Lordaeron. They'd be helping out in interdicting Scourge troops shipments perhaps for example. They'd certainly have more chance to do that if you helped out a bit yes.
 
[] Plan: We're taking the hobbits to Isengard!

This works for me. While I'm not particularly interested in working on the prisoners immediately neither am I opposed, it's a solid internal culture-y action. Demongate + Kul Tiras progresses warchiefdom, talks to feldad, and gets us poised for action. Expand the Kingdom is literally free real estate. Establish Industry is similarly high value.


Would vote for others too probably, but they haven't been reposted.

e:
[] Plan: Cleaning house
[] Plan Settling affairs
e2: [X] Plan: Expansions
 
Last edited:
Gregor did complain of having too many new arrivals. So what to do about that? Find more clay.

Though as Sylvanas has sent forth a letter asking nicely for a request I kept thinking maybe that's rather time sensitive to work on.

Maybe these forsaken Grok also gets to keep.
 
[x] Plan: Cleaning house
-[x] Demongate
-[x] Establish Industry
-[x] Expand the Kingdom
-[x] Strange bedfellows
-[x] [Free] Mercenaries: Kul Tiras' Plea for Maritime Assistance

Because the chance to have Kirin Tor atrocities spawn a necromancy crisis is something I would like to ward off. Now or next turn
 
Last edited:
[x] Plan: Demon Slaying
-[x] Demongate
-[x] Establish Industry
-[x] Expand the Kingdom
-[x] Strange bedfellows
-[x] [Free] Mercenaries: Admiral Westwind's Proposition


OK I like cleaning house for the most part but if we're gonna put up with Kul Tirans, who I'm pretty sure Vark has a problem with, Westwind's proposal is both a lot more important seeming, and seems to supply one of the big things we need which is magic support. Not entirely sure how we're supposed to help in a boat fight anyway.
 
I remember there being a post on Vark's attitude towards the Alliance and Kul Tiras in particular, somewhere during the Lordaeron arc. Something about Grok being the smarter one, and how he'd rather leave the politicking to him and just ax whomever needs axing at the time. Can't find it though.

One of the possible goals of the arc was:
  • Try and get the Kul Tirans to back off back home
Which is a large part of why Vark has a problem (and why people in Kalimdor lack in resourses). This is an attempted solution... and also doing what Thrall preaches, but better, which is an added bonus.
You pause, considering your next remarks, "Consider honour." you say, "Firstly, our Warchief has forbade conflict with the humans and we are bound to obey him. Thrall knows humans, he was raised by one after all and he has contact, so they say, with the Proudmoore woman to the south, what if he has some plan to resolve the conflict? The Old Horde, drunk on demonblood, rampaged across the Eastern Kingdoms. The demons and warlocks dishonoured our race and if we continue these feuds we dishonour our people just as the Fel did."
I like the shift from "Maybe Thrall has a plan?" to "Thrall doesn't know beans, I'll do it myself".

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind them backing off only certain routes and ships, turning this into a tangible competitive advantage when it comes to picking which Warchief is the better one... but Grok won't sacrifice orcs to gain more political standing. We'll just have to trust our dad to put a proper spin on it.

If this succeeds and if we can leverage it right with the right people, it might increase our supporter base in Kalimdor to the point where it'd serve as our rear, perhaps even openly despite our exile status. Being isolated from external support is one of the challenges we somewhat successfully confronted, but pressure will increase now that we are at odds with Rend. Grok was unwilling to call in favors from his father, but it'd be a different matter if we made requests in service of our people.
 
Last edited:
yeah I don't care about kul'tiras at all but helping them might convince some of the non we hate orcs and want to kill them all members think about pulling back making it harder for the kill everylast one of them members to do much more then scream and shout (speaking of not to sure what side janias mother falls on since her husband was the biggest kill every last one of them members granted she also kept the kultirans out of the alliance and since they are here implies things are not excatly the same but well thats just not got much about)
 
I was thinking of allowing a route back to Durotar so some sort of aid or trade route can be established within agreements of course.
 
I feel like the kirin tor thing is kind of important, is that a Merc action?
The Kirin Tor have been busy recovering from Archimonde nuking them and also supporting the Crusade where they can, which has meant that they've not been able to properly devote time and resources to maintaining their magical prisons.

Why they don't just kill the stuff in the prisons I've never really been clear on. Possibly it's because if you kill demons they respawn, so maybe they want to take them off the table by just keeping them locked up.

In any case, the magical prisons in both Dalaran's Violet Hold, as well as in Tol Barad are both breaking down a bit. The later is the more pressing as the demons are already escaping, and it's only that Tol Barad is a largely irrelevant place and the demons can't get away because maybe not all of them can fly etc. Comparably the Violet Hold perhaps has more complicated problems, and they're asking Grok to come by because he's a shaman and they're having a problem with an elemental etc.

It may or may not have something to do with a few Dreadlords skulking about.
Not entirely sure how we're supposed to help in a boat fight anyway.
I've not thought of it yet as it's not been chosen yet. One obvious thing would be island assaults which would have the orcs take casualties not the Kul Tirans. The other would be Q-ships, taking mercant ships and filling them with Orcs so that when they're attacked the Orcs can jump out and defend them.
I remember there being a post on Vark's attitude towards the Alliance and Kul Tiras in particular, somewhere during the Lordaeron arc. Something about Grok being the smarter one, and how he'd rather leave the politicking to him and just ax whomever needs axing at the time. Can't find it though.
You may be referring to this exchange?
"Dathrohan has offered to make me," you paused, the word 'Constable' didn't really translate, and you weren't sure Vark's grasp of Tirassian extended to it either, "A sort of warleader for all Alterac, to command it's military, ensure the mines are productive."

"Really?" Vark remarked, "Hm!"

You waited, ready to reply, but nothing came. "What do you mean?"

Vark looked down at you, "What?"

"You said 'hm', I thought you were about to remark, offer some insight."

The Mok'Nathal laughed, "By the Spirits no, you're the philosopher!"

You bit your lip to stop the smile, it would hardly do to encourage him. "I don't know what to do. We're already more involved in Alliance politics than we should be. More than I have the authority to do."

"Well that doesn't matter really." Vark replied, "You're an exile remember?"

It was your turn to grunt then, as you looked out at the well-equipped force your 'exile' had furnished you with.

"This could be good for us, for the Horde, for the clans." you said, tapping a finger on the gem you'd lashed to the Fireblade's hilt.

"Very well." Vark shrugged. "But I'd ask what you're actually thinking to do."

You looked wordlessly up at him.

"You want to make friends with the humans. Alright, I don't think it'll work but it's better than my plan of just killing them I suppose. But allying with them is inherently different from securing your clan, from finding work for us instead of raiding. Say you drive off all the trolls, what then? What about our sons' sons? Will they just fight the humans again?"

There was a pause as the warriors march by, eyes bright, axes ready.

"The humans don't fight each other. Well," you paused, "Not as much as the clans do."

Vark nodded slowly, "I suppose it would be like that. But again, what would you do with it? It's time to grow, time to build, and that is worthy, time to bring warriors to your banner, but as I've said before, if the Warchief sees that you're gathering warriors in a far place, you know what he's going to think."

You didn't respond to that. You'd like to think that Thrall thinks the best of people, and you'd like to think that he know you have no intention of challenging him. But also, you suppose, he knows that you lied to him about being responsible for the demonic activities of the Burning Blade. There's much your father hasn't told you, much that might be hidden…

"And what about this southern Warchief? Dal'rend, son of Blackhand? You have some of his warriors, and some from clans who might be his allies, he'll respond too. You're caught between them, them and the Alliance. If you declare for one the others will see you as an enemy."
Re Vark's personality generally, he's certainly not stupid, but he's not strategic and he's not educated. He's inclined to seek a direct solution, which because of his experiences might be a violent one. Grok has managed to negotiate actually a pretty good relationship with the Alliance, and Vark is fine with that. He's in a new situation so he's fine with going along with what Grok is doing.

He's inventive, he's good at thinking of solutions to physical problems like his bomb spears, but he's less good at the sort of abstract navel gazing Grok does sometimes.
 
Why they don't just kill the stuff in the prisons I've never really been clear on. Possibly it's because if you kill demons they respawn, so maybe they want to take them off the table by just keeping them locked up.
I mean its better idea then sending them right back to the legion so they can attack else where cause I mean most of the stuff in the prison is elementals, demons and void stuff the only thing that I recall isn't one of those is a arrakora and I am not sure why its their so researching them might play a part in it as well
 
I've not thought of it yet as it's not been chosen yet. One obvious thing would be island assaults which would have the orcs take casualties not the Kul Tirans. The other would be Q-ships, taking mercant ships and filling them with Orcs so that when they're attacked the Orcs can jump out and defend them.
Naval battles going the Roman way?

Gotta ask but does recruiting more orcs and humand into the warband or army reduce tensions a bit?

Just wondering if those future expeditions besides Kul Tiras needs more meat for the grinder.
 
Last edited:
Can we please just seize the admin. We cannot have a rival power structure exist. Not now that there are ten thousand orcs in Alterac.

Doing that now would make things hella complicated, and we could more then likely talk to Onyxia about it later and get some "Royal backing" so the nobles can't fight us on this.

The new administration has their own forces, and currently we only have our Orcs (irreplaceable resources) our Gilneans (irreplaceable resources better used supplying us) and the Arathi military (not as valuable to me, kinda sucks, loyal to us but small in number and not exceptionally equipped) to combat that. That looks like a lot on paper, but we would probably be the ones seiging what's ment to be our own holdings and seiges SUCK.

Don't want to waste time and AP on a fight we might be able to avoid, especially when we could be fighting the scourge or working on our Not!Horde.
 
The new administration has their own forces
While I suppose in theory the nobles could assemble forces comprised of their retinues, theyve not have time to meaningfully do so to any degree of quality. Those nobles are in power because you conquered the kingdom and then Gregor gave them their lands back.

There'd be some resistance, and if the roll went poorly that resistance might been more significant. Generally speaking though don't worry about it.
 
I know Fractious said it's ok but I'm just not sure if it's a good idea.

Well it is a good idea if you want to streamline things. What the consequences of that is with a blatant seizure is another matter politically.

The reactions especially from Danrothan would be good riddance as long as his needs are met for Northend.

For the rest of the Alliance, if Grok helps them in their time of need their concerns would be of slight concern but if an orc is doing the opposite of what Alterac did then they'll likely accept the reality especially if it's sweetened with economic or logistical caveats.

Then for Onyxia well some negotiations now and then could be arranged if Grok and her actually talked about his dissatisfaction with Gregor....

Still I wouldn't be open to it. Not yet anyway. Needs more official backing.
"Yes, at Stromgarde as I understand." Dathrohan nodded. "They are merely the remnants of the old nobility of Alterac, who were always half-bandits themselves! Now their retinues follow them to continue to rob and thieve across Lordaeron. They've made alliance with trolls and ogres, as well as with some elements of the Scourge. Indeed, as I understand it they were stealing corpses to supply the Cult of the Damned in the early days of the Scourging of Lordaeron. For that blasphemous treachery, I would see them all dead… They squat in the ruins of the kingdom, at Strahnbrad, in the capital of Alterac itself, as well as in 'Gallows', once a military camp where we hanged the last king of Alterac."

Dathrohan sighed, "However, if these former nobles are pardoned and settled in Alterac again, the kingdom can be rebuilt in a single stroke, and that may be best. Know this though, if the Syndicate are destroyed in your quest, I for one will have no objections."

You nod, you doubted it, Dathrohan was hardly known for his compassion.

"There are presently three claimants for the throne of Alterac." Dathrohan continued, "Firstly, Aiden's son, Aliden Perenolde. He runs the Syndicate."

"The other heirs?"

"Isiden Perenolde, Aliden's brother. As far as we know he was turned to a Death Knight during the war, and his whereabouts are unknown. Alternatively, there's been some reports that he's in Gilneas. In any case you can discount him. The other party is more tricky though, in the years after the second war a cousin of the Perenolde line, a Lord Daval Prestor, found his way into the close councils of King Terenas, indeed, my lady Calia was once betrothed to him. Lord Daval's whereabouts are unknown, but you're familiar with Lady Prestor? Well, it may be wise for us to elevate her to the throne of Alterac, for if so her fate will be bound to that kingdom, and, if perhaps Varian Wrynn needs a new wife, all the better."

"Would you scheme before the kingdom is even taken?" you asked. While you'd not been surprised to know Dathrohan was already considering the issues of human politics, you were a little shocked by the mercenary attitude. Lady Prestor was recovering from a great loss, and Dathrohan seemed to wish to take advantage of that.

"I must look to our defences." Dathrohan answered, and the power behind his eyes was sharp and piercing. "There is much to be done, and Alterac's mineral wealth will feed the Crusade's forges in preparation for our attack on Northrend."

You nodded, it was worthy you supposed. You had lied to the Warchief for similar reasons after all.

"We come now to your part in all this." Dathrohan continued. "If possible, I would have you smash the Syndicate. Root them out of their fastness in Gallows and Strahnbrad, as well as Alterac proper. See them dispersed, but if you can try not to destroy them, for we'll need them one day against the Scourge. Take Perenolde alive and bring him to me, and I'll make sure he agrees to join the Crusade. Pacify the Frostwolves, for while your efforts at Hammerfall were fine enough, they continue to raid our supply caravans. If possible, once you've established yourself, lead your forces against the Winteraxe Trolls."

"I have not yet agreed to your request!" you protested. "It may be that I cross the mountains and find what I seek, but I must attend to the affairs of my clan."

Dathrohan sat back down, leaning back and raising an eyebrow, "Have you not?" he asked slowly, "Unless my estimation is much off, I have not taken you for a coward, nor a layabout." he spread his hands over the map, "War lies before you. A chance for your warriors to wet their axes, and gain glory by it. If you accept a commission, as you have in the past, much would be available to you from the Crusade's stores, for as a Captain I can give you more than as merely a diplomat. You are strong and valiant, and your honour is known. I ask you, as one warrior to another, will you truly go alone, with only a few companions to 'attend to your clan's affairs', or will you go at the head of a host? The Syndicate are likely to stand against you either way, and you surely know that without such a commission I cannot order Alliance commanders to stand down as I could if you were under my command? The Stormpike Dwarves guard the Alterac Valley, do you intend to cut your way through them?"

"I will not kill where it's not needed, and while against the Scourge, honour's course was clear, this is less so. I am an exile, far from my people, but that doesn't mean I must involve myself in every contest I see, nor that it would necessarily be wise to involve my people and clan in internal Alliance matters."

Dathrohan nodded slowly, "Perhaps, but as you say, you're an exile, as are many of your followers to hear talk of it. One day Stromgarde will advance on Hammerfall, one day the Orcs in the hills will be rooted out, for the Alliance can't leave such foes behind us when we advance on Northrend. Where then will they go? To the flames of their ancestors? Or to you, Grok'mash, Constable of Alterac?"

Dathrohan tapped the square signifying the kingdom's capital, "You are trusted among the Alliance leadership, and I doubt many would object to you taking command of that kingdom, so long as you kept faith with us and enforced the normal laws. You would have refugee, indeed a strong one within the mountains, and legitimacy to draw followers to your cause."

You were still reluctant. "I could not accept such a broad commision, not without first consulting my father as clan chief." you managed.

The Grand Crusade nodded, "Very well." he began, "I will say this then: Act as a Captain of the Alliance in Alterac, and you may take whatever forces you wish, for the Stormpike will not deny your rank. Act in defence of Alliance forces if you hear calls for aid, but otherwise concentrate on the Syndicate. Root them out, deliver Perenolde to me. I lay no duty to you to carry war against the trolls or your own kind. Perhaps we might discuss that later, but for now, your only proactive action need be against the Syndicate."

You frowned. Dathrohan's speech was full of advantages. And you supposed even if you accepted his commission to take the kingdom, you need not necessarily remain there afterward. However, if you refused it, you could still make your way through the kingdom, either by the coast road or through the mountains themselves.
 
Last edited:
I just realized one thing with this discussion:
Datrohan is possessed by a demon of the Burning Legion, and the head of the Scarlet Crusade.
Arthas is the Lich King, master of Undeath, chief of the Scourge, and agent of the Burning Legion last I recall.

I may just be ignorant of the WoW lore, but it seems strange to me. Are there different factions? Or is Arthas the Confederation of Independent Systems to Datrohan's Emperor Palpatine?
I am inclined to think the second. After all, what is better than gaining humanity to be the next Orcs, making them all followers of Chaos?
Note that in this story some elements may change and maybe this question is better left unanswered^^
 
I just realized one thing with this discussion:
Datrohan is possessed by a demon of the Burning Legion, and the head of the Scarlet Crusade.
Arthas is the Lich King, master of Undeath, chief of the Scourge, and agent of the Burning Legion last I recall.

I may just be ignorant of the WoW lore, but it seems strange to me. Are there different factions? Or is Arthas the Confederation of Independent Systems to Datrohan's Emperor Palpatine?
I am inclined to think the second. After all, what is better than gaining humanity to be the next Orcs, making them all followers of Chaos?
Note that in this story some elements may change and maybe this question is better left unanswered^^

The Lich King went independent at the end of Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos and finalized it by the end of Frozen Throne. Ever since then one of the Legion's main goals is to destroy the Lich King and install a new puppet to control the Scourge.
 
Last edited:
Naval battles going the Roman way?
Galley warfare is fundamentally different from longship warfare, or carrack warfare. The Kul Tirans and Vrykul will both use longships because they're following a North Sea model rather than a Mediterranean style of ships. It's several different systems of warfare basically.

The Vrykul would generally be tying their ships together and then fighting in boarding actions. This is how the Norse did it and obviously the Vrykul are based on them. They would attempt to close on the Kul Tiran ships and board them. In big battles the Vrykul would be basically fighting on land because they'd be doing successive boarding actions. Comparably, as you note, the Romans did do something similar with the Carthaginians.

However the Kul Tirans would be fighting with taller ships which are potentially more maneuverable, or at least faster. They'd also be using cannon, though not lots and lots of cannon perhaps and would still rely to an extent on boarding actions or on ramming smaller ships.
Gotta ask but does recruiting more orcs and humand into the warband or army reduce tensions a bit?

Just wondering if those future expeditions besides Kul Tiras needs more meat for the grinder.
If you had more humans that would make the orcs respect the humans more sure, and might make the humans more accustomed to interacting with humans. To develop respect you'd have to have a reasonable proportion of interaction and people who've interacted meaningfully.
Arthas is the Lich King, master of Undeath, chief of the Scourge, and agent of the Burning Legion last I recall.

one of the Legion's main goals is to destroy the Lich King and install a new puppet to control the Scourge.
Yea the Scourge is broken away currently, with little prospect of a reunification. Some parties (Grok for example) may be partly not actually know this because no one's told them etc.

Comparably, there's some weird stuff going on with the Old God faction. You've got the Dark Horde and the Dark Irons fighting for example even though they're both old god aligned.
 
If you had more humans that would make the orcs respect the humans more sure, and might make the humans more accustomed to interacting with humans. To develop respect you'd have to have a reasonable proportion of interaction and people who've interacted meaningfully.
Aye, a truer thing has never being said. Humans often have terrible interactions with other humans, maybe some Orcs from Kalimdor will knock some sense into them :tongue:

Yea the Scourge is broken away currently, with little prospect of a reunification. Some parties (Grok for example) may be partly not actually know this because no one's told them etc.
Yes, while I like that we don't have a meta option of []Just tell him with a magic dream from MetaWorld, and I like that Grok'mash has his own personality and specialization that gives him some blind areas... people, we should work to improve this! We should try to understand more, interact more, and if we don't have the inclination for intrigue we should delegate that function wisely (probably Kartha since she's from the original companions of the Orc-fellowship, but that bishop sympathetic to us would also be a good idea).

Actually, I am in favor (alas, maybe it will end up next turn) of spending an AP to go talk with people and gather information. I would like to visit the bishop and ask him how is the mood, how the people are faring, and if there is anything we can do to help (and maybe get good cred and stifle the interests of those hostile to us^^). We could visit the Gilneans/the Alterac natives/the army (yeah there is an action for that, but that is different, that is "try whipping them into shape again". I want to understand). We could talk with Gregor because while I wouldn't trust him blindly we can get information from such a conversation. Same for Lord Crowley (and if we see that Crowley or some others seem shifty, we can investigate and check if some people do not need a fireblade delivered by express).
I wonder where Ju'bei'thos is, but I don't really care for him right now. Having more awareness of the situation could tells us if he has agents.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top